Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Crazy Ivan on <08-28-13/0946:33>
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For me, the cybereyes were always one of the pieces of augmentation that defined the shadowrun/cyberpunk style setting. So it saddened me to see that 4th edition had essentially made the standard to not use cybereyes unless you were a mage! By using glasses/contacts/goggles, there was no point in having the implants performed since you could get them all done cheaper, faster, safer, and without essence.
Granted, I haven't read through enough of 5th edition to see if this has changed. But am I the only one who was saddened by this?
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Cybereyes in SR5 are even MORE expensive ,so you will encounter even less People with Cybereyes in SR5 /2075
with a rare Dance
Medicineman
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*chuckles*Actually, the main reason to get cybereyes is to have those mods as a permanent part of you, which the other optics don't allow. Also, most other characters have no problem giving up some Essence for that.
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I think the relative value of cybereyes versus glasses or contacts is highly dependent on how the GM approaches the game. In a game where the players are always initiating conflict and never without their gear the two systems are roughly equivalent. In a game where players might be attacked, or forced into situations that they are not prepared for the Cybereye has some advantages.
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smartlink as an eyeware modification to natural eyes or in cybernetic eyes give +2 attack pool dice
- instead of only +1 dice if you have it in an external imaging device such as goggles or contacts.
flare compensation as an eyeware modification to natural eyes or in cybernetic eyes reduce the -4 penalty from a flash pak to -1
- instead of -2 dice if you it in an external imaging device such as goggles or contacts.
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smartlink as an eyeware modification to natural eyes or in cybernetic eyes give +2 attack pool dice
- instead of only +1 dice if you have it in an external imaging device such as goggles or contacts.
But only if your willing to make them hackable, witch is a much bigger risk for eyes then glasses.
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But only if your willing to make them hackable, witch is a much bigger risk for eyes then glasses.
Are they considered one unit or are they discrete elements? In other words, can you have a wireless enabled cyberware smartlink but wireless off cybereyes? If not discrete, I guess the best all around answer would be cyber flare/smartlink without cybereyes and everything else in glasses/contacts/goggles.
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But only if your willing to make them hackable, witch is a much bigger risk for eyes then glasses.
Are they considered one unit or are they discrete elements? In other words, can you have a wireless enabled cyberware smartlink but wireless off cybereyes? If not discrete, I guess the best all around answer would be cyber flare/smartlink without cybereyes and everything else in glasses/contacts/goggles.
With the changes to how electronics communicate with eachother, I really have no reason to think the eyes wireless *doesnt* need to be on to comminicate with its enhancements.
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cyberware communicate with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI).
I think your smartgun communicate with your data jack and not with your eyes (either with a wire or wireless).
(and this is probably also why data jack have noise reduction while your eyes does not)
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With the changes to how electronics communicate with eachother, I really have no reason to think the eyes wireless *doesnt* need to be on to comminicate with its enhancements.
Not sure how I would rule. With that rationale, a cyberarm would have to be wireless enabled in order to take advantage of the cyberarm gyromount's wireless bonus (in addition to the gyromount). Seems a little odd.
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smartlink as an eyeware modification to natural eyes or in cybernetic eyes give +2 attack pool dice
- instead of only +1 dice if you have it in an external imaging device such as goggles or contacts.
flare compensation as an eyeware modification to natural eyes or in cybernetic eyes reduce the -4 penalty from a flash pak to -1
- instead of -2 dice if you it in an external imaging device such as goggles or contacts.
but only for those that are so stupid as to keep their Cybereyes WiFi open
Bricked Cybereyes make You Blind and give You physical Damage Damage
HokaHey
Medicineman
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cyberware communicate with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI).
I think your smartgun communicate with your data jack and not with your eyes (either with a wire or wireless).
(and this is probably also why data jack have noise reduction while your eyes does not)
You dont really need a datajack. Everything communicates wirelessly. It really serves no purpose anymore.
With the changes to how electronics communicate with eachother, I really have no reason to think the eyes wireless *doesnt* need to be on to comminicate with its enhancemoents.
Not sure how I would rule. With that rationale, a cyberarm would have to be wireless enabled in order to take advantage of the cyberarm gyromount's wireless bonus (in addition to the gyromount). Seems a little odd.
Not really. They cyberarm doesnt have to communicate with the gyromount. Unlike your eyes which have to communicate with your smartlink/imagelink
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You dont really need a datajack. Everything communicates wirelessly. It really serves no purpose anymore.
The purpose of the datajack is the noise reduction ether to prevent your wireless bonuses switching off due to noise or to reduce noise due to range/static/spam that is making life harder for your Decker or Rigger
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With the changes to how electronics communicate with eachother, I really have no reason to think the eyes wireless *doesnt* need to be on to comminicate with its enhancemoents.
Not sure how I would rule. With that rationale, a cyberarm would have to be wireless enabled in order to take advantage of the cyberarm gyromount's wireless bonus (in addition to the gyromount). Seems a little odd.
Not really. They cyberarm doesnt have to communicate with the gyromount. Unlike your eyes which have to communicate with your smartlink/imagelink
Why do the eyes need to communicate wirelessly? It seems they would just need to receive information from the smartlink to display, which should be able to be accomplished without wireless (at least between the smartlink and the eyes). I also am a bit suspicious of the claim that the gyromount wouldn't need to communicate with the cyberarm at all. (I'd throw in pretty much all of the other cyber accessories with wireless here as well).
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Why do the eyes need to communicate wirelessly?
because thats the new Default Line for everything in SR5
HougH!
Medicineman
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Why do the eyes need to communicate wirelessly?
because thats the new Default Line for everything in SR5
HougH!
Medicineman
Except when it isn't.
Toggling an individual device’s wireless functionality off is a Free Action, as is toggling all of your wireless devices to “wireless off.” You lose wireless bonuses, but the items can no longer be wirelessly hacked
Which gets back to the original question. Cybereyes don't provide a wireless bonus, so there isn't any reason to necessarily have them turned to wireless on. A smartlink does have wireless bonuses, so you really shouldn't turn it off. But is a smartlink considered a part of cybereyes (and thus the whole package is considered "on" if one part of it is) or are they discrete? Allowing you to turn the smartlink to wireless on (so it can communicate with the smartgun) and leave the eyes as wireless off?
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This quote may help here
SR 5E p451
Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural inter face (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the “moving parts” are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality
is active.
Though this does not address if a peace of cyberware is installed inside another does the cyberware it is installed inside have to be wireless connected to the matrix for the inner device to be wireless connected to the matrix. The wireless bonuses are coming from connection with the matrix after all.
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With the changes to how electronics communicate with eachother, I really have no reason to think the eyes wireless *doesnt* need to be on to comminicate with its enhancemoents.
Not sure how I would rule. With that rationale, a cyberarm would have to be wireless enabled in order to take advantage of the cyberarm gyromount's wireless bonus (in addition to the gyromount). Seems a little odd.
Not really. They cyberarm doesnt have to communicate with the gyromount. Unlike your eyes which have to communicate with your smartlink/imagelink
Why do the eyes need to communicate wirelessly? It seems they would just need to receive information from the smartlink to display, which should be able to be accomplished without wireless (at least between the smartlink and the eyes). I also am a bit suspicious of the claim that the gyromount wouldn't need to communicate with the cyberarm at all. (I'd throw in pretty much all of the other cyber accessories with wireless here as well).
Yes, the smartlink gets the data from the smargun. But it has to communicate with your eyes in order for you to actually *see* it. Since cyber doesnt communicate with eachother anymore without wireless (hence why wired reflexes anx reflex enhancers arent compatable without it) I can only conclude that the accessories in your eyes dont communicate wired to the eyes themselves.
As far as the gryomount, its a physics/gravity operated widget that counterbalances the force of your gun to keep it stable. It doesnt really need to communicate with your arm anymore than a segway does its tires.
You dont really need a datajack. Everything communicates wirelessly. It really serves no purpose anymore.
The purpose of the datajack is the noise reduction ether to prevent your wireless bonuses switching off due to noise or to reduce noise due to range/static/spam that is making life harder for your Decker or Rigger
So, what, it gives off an antijammimg field?
And it still isnt necessary to have in order to do anything wirelessly.
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The datajack acts as a router and a signal amplifier.
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So, what, it gives off an antijammimg field?
And it still isnt necessary to have in order to do anything wirelessly.
As to how a datajack gives it's 1 point of noise reduction, you will have to ask the people who designed them. (edit: looks like Crunch has it worked out)
I was not saying a datajack is necessary to do anything wirelessly, just that if you want wireless bonuses in the barrens or the like you need noise reduction. You can still wirelessly connect your smartgun to your smartlink when the spam is so bad your smartgun/smartlnk can not get local weather conditions data off the matrix fast enough to grant it's dice pool bonus. (as indicated on p421 "Wireless Bonuses")
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The datajack acts as a router and a signal amplifier.
I was under the impression everything was a router in the wireless future :P
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The datajack acts as a router and a signal amplifier.
I was under the impression everything was a router in the wireless future :P
There's distributed routing, but that doesn't mean a dedicated unit can't provide a bonus.
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The datajack acts as a router and a signal amplifier.
I was under the impression everything was a router in the wireless future :P
But if it is your router you can kill the advertising spam I would hope.
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The datajack acts as a router and a signal amplifier.
I was under the impression everything was a router in the wireless future :P
There's distributed routing, but that doesn't mean a dedicated unit can't provide a bonus.
How is this stuff setup?
Smartgun > datajack > matrix > datajack > smartlink ?
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I'm not sure I understand the question.
SR5 doesn't give us a CCNA guide for the 2070s matrix any more than it provides us with a CQB manual for the CAS army or a dissertation of the aerodynamics of vectored thrust WIGE vehicles.
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There are two sides to wireless functionality one is devices talking to each other with out wires (or other physical connection like with cyberwear) and the other is talking to the matrix to allow wireless bonuses. One only needs short rang communications but leaves you open to wireless hacking while the other needs to go through a Grid and leaves the device open to wireless hacking.
So your Datajack is connecting your Smartgun to your Smartlink as well as connecting them both to the matrix via a grid.
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There are two sides to wireless functionality one is devices talking to each other with out wires (or other physical connection like with cyberwear) and the other is talking to the matrix to allow wireless bonuses. One only needs short rang communications but leaves you open to wireless hacking while the other needs to go through a Grid and leaves the device open to wireless hacking.
So your Datajack is connecting your Smartgun to your Smartlink as well as connecting them both to the matrix via a grid.
But every device can connect to the matrix directly.
Im going to be honest. I dont think bluetooth exists in the shadowrun universe, only wifi. I dont think wireless devices directly connect to one another, I think everything goes:
device > matrix > device
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Then how do you explain slaving and things like the datajack bonus?
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SR 5E p421
A wireless device is always vulnerable to subversion and control by a hacker within wireless handshake range.
To me this indicates there is direct device to device communication via wireless in SR 5E.
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Datajack gives you DNI, which is sort of what it's supposed to do.
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I have yet to see a Samurai at my table not go for Cybereyes, for whatever reason. Them stacking with goggles fully might be a good reason.
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Control Rigs, implanted comlinks and implanted cyberdecks also provide DNI. Datajacks also provide 1 point of noise reduction, data storage, about a meter of retractable cable and my personal favorite the Ghost in the Shell Anime style direct datajack user to datajack user (via cable) communication that is immune to radio interception or eavesdropping.
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If I am going to pay 0.2 Essence for the better version of Smartlink I may as well grab the better version of flare compensation and an included image link. After all I have had enough of strong blows or Magicians using Magic Fingers sending my goggles/glasses/contacts flying. (there is a reason those options are cheaper)
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Datajack gives you DNI, which is sort of what it's supposed to do.
By RAW DNI doesnt really give you any advantages anymore.
Then how do you explain slaving and things like the datajack bonus?
Nevermind. I retract my statement. I drew a diagram and have come to a better understanding. A device can make a direct connection to anything within its signal.
HOWEVER if the matrix is nothing more than all devices interconnected to one another then...
How can you possibly seperate the matrix into grids? Wouldnt one person with a connection to multiple grids give everyone access to all of them?
What purpose do matrix providers serve? IRL, they give you access to the infrustructure. (cable lines) But in the new matrix every device adds itself as part of that infrustructure. Perhaps it works like cellphone carriers disabling mobile hotspots on phones without paying? They dont do anythig, except give you permission to do what you could do anyway.
The datajack doesnt make sense either way though. If something is jamming a device, it would have done so before the signal ever reached the datajack.
*edit* Also, if noise affects communications outside of mutual signal range, how is anyone in Seattle able to conduct business with anyone in Hong Kong?
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Emil - satlinks are a good start for doing business over long distance, and the hardline does still exist, there just happens to be a lot of transmitters. I suspect that altitude may help as well. As to why the Datajack cuts through things that way? I suspect that is just how it is designed - and if we assume it is using some of our meat as machinery, it could be flipping signals very quickly, so as to find unjammed or relatively clear frequencies to transmit off of.
Bit of a stretch by today's standards, but it is the 2070's we're talking about.
As to seperating things into grids, I suspect that has to do with coding communications. If you have all the wireless things talking to each other, you might be able to set them up to talk using some sort of IFF transmission sent along with the rest of the communication... or, even have them speak and translate different programming languages entirely - which would fall right into line with GOD's objectives.
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Emi there has been some significant changes to what the matrix is between 4E and 5E. The most notable change is that the matrix is not a free sharing of communications anymore (well public grid is but that is so slow that the cross grid penalties on top make for a big disadvantage to matrix actions.) Even the public grid has GOD overseeing what actions are taken there and if GOD notices and finds you your deck gets roasted and you are dump out of the matrix (until you can reboot/use a fresh device) The signal stat has been dropped as well.
Aaron said else where
I've found that the folks who have the most confusion about the SR5 wireless rules are the folks who know the most about the SR4 wireless rules. This is probiably because the SR5 Matrix rules were rebuilt from the ground up, so a lot of SR4 concepts and assumptions are either contradicted or completely absent in SR5.
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Im aware that there is not such thing as signal rating. Thats why I never mentioned it.
I dont see how there is no free exchange of information when every device interfaces with and routes messages from all of the devices within signal range.(100 m). I dont see how there is no free exchange, when the best explaination for many of the wireless bonuses is cloud computing and sensor data swapping.
The matrix doesnt seem to be fundamentally different than it was in 4e, except now GOD aparently has control and has instituted grids. Something which as far as I am aware, we have no idea how they actually work.
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You dont really need a datajack. Everything communicates wirelessly. It really serves no purpose anymore.
Your brain can't communicate wireless.
You need a data jack or trodes for that (or an internal commlink / cyberdeck / control rig).
Smartgun have a wirless bonus. so you might want to have wireless ON there.
Eyes dont have a wireless bonus.
Nor does smartlink in your eyes.
Data jack have a wireless bonus so there is a point in having it wireless ON.
Do what you want, but I would have wireless ON in my data jack
Wireless OFF in my eyes and my smartlink
Wireless ON in my smartgun.
This give me +2 accuracy, access to the camera feed to fire around corners with -3 dice, my smartgun have wireless matrix access which give me +1 row up on wind and +2 attack pool, i have DNI access and wireless matrix access which give me eject clip and change fire mode as free actions. I also have 1 noise reduction since my data jack have wireless access to the Matrix... might come in handy if someone tries to jam the wireless signal between my data jack and my smartgun....
and if they manage to jam the signal or if i am under attack from the Matrix i can go wireless OFF on my data jack and smartgun and just attach the cable from my data jack to my smartgun and still have +2 accuracy and access to the camera feed to fire around corners with -3 dice (as well as information about ammo, heat build up etc. represented by the +2 accuracy i guess).
....and IF my device should ever be bricked it take less than an hour and a cheap toolkit to repair it enough to restore full functionallity.
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Wireless OFF in my eyes and my smartlink
Wireless ON in my smartgun.
If Your Eyes and Smartlink is OFF how can they receive Wireless Data from the Smartgun ?
I doubt that this works out like You want it .
I guess You have to open your Cybereyes and Smartlink to the wonderful World of Wireless...Wayhem
with a Wonderful Wance
Medicineman
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Wireless OFF in my eyes and my smartlink
Wireless ON in my smartgun.
If Your Eyes and Smartlink is OFF how can they receive Wireless Data from the Smartgun ?
I doubt that this works out like You want it .
I guess You have to open your Cybereyes and Smartlink to the wonderful World of Wireless...Wayhem
with a Wonderful Wance
Medicineman
I would generally assume that two pieces of hardware, in this case the datajack and the smartlink, that are physically connected would be able to communicate via a physical connection. This is after all how all that cyberware can keep working when you turn wireless too off. (I posted the rules section relating to such connections earlier) If you feel that having your cybereyes connected to your datajack should open your cybereyes to wireless attack that may be something to discus.
I would surmise thought that for a device to be subject to wireless attack that device needs to be using wireless communication otherwise a device could achieve sufficient connection to the matrix via a wired connection to other devices which are using wireless communication to obtain wireless bonuses and the rules clearly state that for a device to gain wireless bonuses that device needs to be using wireless communication.
The fact you can have an implanted comlink in your cyberarm provide you with a DNI for no essence cost beyond that needed for the cyberarm would to me indicate that what ever system allows the neural control of the cyberarm also allows for other types of communication.
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If Your Eyes and Smartlink is OFF how can they receive Wireless Data from the Smartgun ?
In the same way my smartgun would talk to my smartlink if i attach a wire from my smartgun to my data jack...?
Smartgun system p.433:
...The smartgun features are accessed either by universal access port cable to an imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection working in concert with direct neural interface...
Direct Neural Interface = Data Jack.
So either you use a cable to your data jack or you use wireless to your data jack.
- Directly to your eyes without passing your data jack or internal commlink does not even seem to be supported if you go by RAW.
Here is another pass in the book. Augmentation p.451
Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the “moving parts” are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality is active.
Since cybereyes and smartlink does not have wireless bonus i don't see why I could not use the neural interface instead of wireless connection to have my smartlink talk to my data jack. My data jack have a wireless bonus. So does my smartgun. So I let both of them talk wireless with each other and the Matrix as a whole.
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If the wireless is on in your datajack, why couldnt your eyes be hacked directly, since they now have greater matrix access though the datajack?
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If the wireless is on in your datajack, why couldnt your eyes be hacked directly, since they now have greater matrix access though the datajack?
As long as the device have wireless ON and access to the Matrix as a whole then you can hack it. This is RAW.
There is no reference I can find that let you hack wireless OFF devices connected to the neural interface or through the DNI. Not saying it is impossible, but there is no rule that support it as far as I can see.
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It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking
If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.
And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?
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It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking
If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.
And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?
I think you may find that the internal computing power of a corp network is sufficient to load an invading persona into as opposed to the internal computing power of a cybersamurai's brain
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It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking
If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.
And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?
I think you may find that the internal computing power of a corp network is sufficient to load an invading persona into as opposed to the internal computing power of a cybersamurai's brain
Im not sure what youre trying to say here? That data cant pass through your nervous system? Then cybertech cant work, deckers cant kill eachother through the matrix, riggers cant jump in, and technomancers cant exist.
It would also make it really hard to physically plug into a computer with a datajack and an internal comlink, without having wireless involved in that chain.
There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.
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Cybereyes and the Smartlink in the example above does not have matrix access...
And since they don't have matrix access they don't get wireless bonus
- and they are not open for attacks from the Matrix.
It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking
You are assuming that a wired network would be using the same communication "protocol" as neural signals.
- That is a pretty big leap, isn't it...?
You can have a wired network. This is explained on p.360 under Wired Security. This mean no devices are open for hacking from the Matrix. But you can still physically attach a data tap on the cable between two wireless devices. This let you wireless hack both devices at each end of the cable.
Book also say:
It should be noted, though, that between grids, hosts, IC, spiders, and GODs, corporations are feeling very confident in the security of their wireless networks. This means that runners are only likely to encounter wired security in the hands of the exceedingly protective or paranoid.
There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.
Yes there is. If not, then you should be able to connect your brain wireless to electronic devices without using a commlink and trodes (or a data jack).
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Cybereyes and the Smartlink in the example above does not have matrix access...
And since they don't have matrix access they don't get wireless bonus
- and they are not open for attacks from the Matrix.
They have matrix acces through the datajack. If you arent getting wireless bonuses anyway, then why do you have your wireless on at all?
You are assuming that a wired network would be using the same communication "protocol" as neural signals.
- That is a pretty big leap, isn't it...?
No, thats what allows cybertechnology to work. Even if you were to say that a datajack/cyber converts those protocols, it makes no effective difference. It would do so as the hacker passes through them, just like it would its own data.
You can have a wired network. This is explained on p.360 under Wired Security. This mean no devices are open for hacking from the Matrix.
That only makes sense if a network doesnt have access to the matrix as a whole. I.e. and entirely local network.
But you can still physically attach a data tap on the cable between two wireless devices. This let you wireless hack both devices at each end of the cable.
Your datajack serves as the tap, and lets me get to any of your cyber devices wired through your neural network. At most, Id see having to hack the datajack first.
Book also say:
It should be noted, though, that between grids, hosts, IC, spiders, and GODs, corporations are feeling very confident in the security of their wireless networks. This means that runners are only likely to encounter wired security in the hands of the exceedingly protective or paranoid.
I really dont think they were thinking about the possibility of a hybrid network when they wrote this. If what you are saying is how it works, a hybrid network is superior to a purely wireless one.
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It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking
If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.
And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?
I think you may find that the internal computing power of a corp network is sufficient to load an invading persona into as opposed to the internal computing power of a cybersamurai's brain
Im not sure what youre trying to say here?
That is takes up more bandwidth to preform a cyberattack than said brain allows.
That data cant pass through your nervous system?
no
that it takes a heap load of data being transfer and commands being carried out on the devices physical devices acting as intermediaries to do a cyberattack.
Then cybertech cant work, deckers cant kill eachother through the matrix, riggers cant jump in, and technomancers cant exist.
...
It would also make it really hard to physically plug into a computer with a datajack and an internal comlink, without having wireless involved in that chain.
There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.
If there is indeed no difference between someones nervous system and a wired computer network as far as this cyberpunk is concerned hackers of all types could take over metahumans who have any wireless DNI and control them like puppets. Some cyberpunk has that, Shadowrun does not.
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My object in this thread is to help others understand something they are apparently not understanding. I have no interest in an argument for changing Shadowrun.
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They have matrix acces through the datajack.
I am actually not sure they do. The wireless bonus is quite specific that a device need to have wireless ON to have access to the matrix.
If you arent getting wireless bonuses anyway, then why do you have your wireless on at all?
As I said; I don't.
I have wireless OFF in my eyes and my smartlink.
My smartgun have wireless ON. My smartgun have matrix access. My smartgun can be hacked from the Matrix. My smartgun get it's wireless bonuses.
No, thats what allows cybertechnology to work. Even if you were to say that a datajack/cyber converts those protocols, it makes no effective difference. It would do so as the hacker passes through them, just like it would its own data.
You might or might not be correct.
According to RAW you can hack anything that is wireless ON and have access to the Matrix as a whole, devices with wireless OFF if you connect to the universal access port or two wired devices with wireless OFF if you connect a data tap to the physical wire between them.
You might or might not be able to hack wireless OFF devices that are connected by wire to a device that have wireless ON same as you might or might not be able to hack wireless OFF cyberware that is connected with a neural interface to a data jack that have wireless ON.
- But that is not supported (or explained) by the rules as far as I can see.
I really dont think they were thinking about the possibility of a hybrid network when they wrote this. If what you are saying is how it works, a hybrid network is superior to a purely wireless one.
I am saying that a device that have wireless OFF (but is connected with a wire to another device that have wireless ON) will not get a wireless bonus, will not have access to the matrix as a whole and will not be open from attacks from the Matrix (to hack it you need to physically attach a cable to the universal access port or attach a data tap on the cable between the two devices). I can of course be wrong. As often before the book is ambiguous and can be read in different ways.
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If there isindeed no difference between someones nervous system and a wired computer network asfar as this cyberpunk is concerned hackersof all typescould takeover metahumans who have anywireless DNI and control them likepuppets. Some cyberpunk hasthat, Shadowrun doesnot.
You would appear to be mistaken, as that is what the wireless hacking was introduced to do. A dev even posted a clip of just that happening in GitS and said thats why the wireless hacking rules were awesome.
That is takes up more bandwidth to preform a cyberattack than said brain allows.
...
no
that it takes a heap load of data being transfer and commands being carried out on the devices physical devices acting as intermediaries to do a cyberattack.
Or garbage code that confuses the device or your brain into damaging itself. Or even purposely malicious code. It doesnt necessarily have to do with excessive amounts of data.
*edit* Actually, this conversation got me thinking. Wireless on for datajack and off for eyes keeps the eyes from.being hacked.
Could a decker then not get an internal deck, turn its wireless off but keep wireless on the datajack on, and thus have their deck be immune to hacking?
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I am an old time second edition player/GM coming back to Shadowrun with the 5th edition being released. I was not here for it being developed and I only sat in on one one-off 4A edition game about 6 months ago.
I am only going by what is written in the 5th edition core rule book which did not seem to imply that metahumans where devices a hacker could remotely control. There cyberlimbs on the other hand... lets say best to leave there wireless off.
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I am an old time second edition player/GM coming back to Shadowrun with the 5th edition being released. I was not here for it being developed and I only sat in on one one-off 4A edition game about 6 months ago.
I am only going by what is written in the 5th edition core rule book which did not seem to imply that metahumans where devices a hacker could remotely control. There cyberlimbs on the other hand... lets say best to leave there wireless off.
You are correct. I missunderstood your previous post.
But honestly, if biodrones work similarly to how they did in 4e... Theres honestly no real reason that a hacker or rigger couldnt do that to a person. After all, a rigger coukd jump ito biodrones like any other drone. It just seems an arbitrary design decision that you cannot, since doing aso to player characters would be rather unfair. (as ithough hacking their cyber isnt potentially :-P)
I suppose in the end Im ok with that being the case.
Im also not quite sure having your wireless off in your arm will help if wireless is on in your datajack though. That is debatable it would seem.
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Incidently, you *can* take a Smartgun Link separate from your cybereyes. While it has a capacity cost, it also has an Essence one, just that nobody ever thinks of doing it anymore. (As opposed to the old fogies of early editions, who recall it was a half essence in your hand or you could stick it in your cyberarm.)
And if you do that, there's no reason to turn your eyes Wireless whatsoever.
Just sayin'.
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smartlink eyeware not in cybernetic eyes are retinal modification to your natural eyes and your data jack reach it with the same neural interface as it would if you had smartlink taking capacity in cybernetic eyes.
if you have cybernetic eyes then you cant take smartlink for an essence cost as a retinal modification to your natural eyes, since you don't have any natural eyes. all your eyeware must fit within the capacity of your cybereyes. once your eyes are full then you can't get any more eyeware enhancements.
To get +2 accuracy with your smartgun (and fire around corners for -3 dice) you can link your smartgun with a wire to your data jack if your smartlink is eyeware taking capacity in cybernetic eyes or taking essence as a retinal modification to your natural eyes (or a wire to your goggles if your smartlink is in your goggles).
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Incidently, you *can* take a Smartgun Link separate from your cybereyes. While it has a capacity cost, it also has an Essence one, just that nobody ever thinks of doing it anymore. (As opposed to the old fogies of early editions, who recall it was a half essence in your hand or you could stick it in your cyberarm.)
And if you do that, there's no reason to turn your eyes Wireless whatsoever.
Just sayin'.
You still need an image link for the smartlink I believe. So, potentially, they could mess with you through your imagelink (making it white out your field of vision, etc)
Unless imagelink is no longer required of course.
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I think they got rid of that requirement.
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I think they got rid of that requirement.
Alrighty. Then yes, that would probably avoid the issue.
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Can you add a commlink (capacity 2) to cybereyes?
If yes, then can you use it for wireless smartlink? I think using one of those and slaving it to the Hacker's PAN (can be used for Tacnet when it's out, as well) or to an external one with good firewall should be usefull.
As for getting your eyes hacked, I don't think the rules allow it. The commlink can be hacked and bricked but the cybereyes will go on functioning. That would answer a lot of the issues here.
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I wouldn't let someone add a commlink to cybereyes myself. First off, their capacity is for vision stuff. Second, an iPhone wouldn't fit in eyeballs.
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Don't you mean the I-ball? :P
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Can you add a commlink (capacity 2) to cybereyes?
No. Commlink is Headgear, and thus follows the rules on pg 451: "Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity rather than Essence." Cybereyes are not a cyberlimb.
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Real world is already passed by that but if RAW you can't, you can't.
http://www.techhive.com/article/226539/medical_chip_brings_cyber_eyes_closer_to_reality.html
I am just happy that my GM (he is IT/ I am engineer) was happy to house rule it possible to add one. After all, cyber eyes are not only the eyeballs but an extensive electronic/ neural interconnect with quite some computing power.
Adding an extra chip is a very small step to take.
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A commlink is far more than a chip though. Sure, you can use the display to see what's going on with the commlink, and a simple cellphone sure, but implant something the size of a commlink which is the size of an iphone? That's not going to fit in those eyes. Not if you want all that dataprocessing and the decent firewall on top of the ability to surf the net, slave your gear to its firewall, etc.
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Just as a thought exercise;
You can replace your eyes with ocular mini drones. These are concealability -2 and the size of an eyeball. A commlink is concealability -4.
Concealability table; 420. Eyeware Ocular drone; 453. Horizon Flying Eye; 465.
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Just as a thought exercise;
You can replace your eyes with ocular mini drones. These are concealability -2 and the size of an eyeball. A commlink is concealability -4.
Concealability table; 420. Eyeware Ocular drone; 453. Horizon Flying Eye; 465.
Concealability is more than just size, though - in the case of the ocular drones you basically have them sitting in plain view (not hidden in a pocket) and the concealability is all about the person looking at your eyes realizing they aren't normal eyes - where the commlink concealability is all about whether someone notices that one of your pockets has something in it.
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Heh,
That would be weird seeing someone launching the ocular mini drones from their head to scout ahead.
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[Commlinks] are small enough to fit in your pocket, on a belt clip, or on your wrist. If a pocket version isn't your style, commlinks are available in a number of other forms, including headwear, glasses, jewelry, cranial implant, belt buckles, and other accessories.
[A cyberdeck] is a bit bigger than a commlink, about the size of a small tablet or a spiral-bound notebook, or a pair of playing card decks.
Just so we're all on the same page as to how big a commlink is; smaller than a pair of playing card decks. Small enough to fit into non-specific jewelry, glasses or belt buckles.
Also, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of Concealability Ratings, Noble Drake.
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Also, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of Concealability Ratings, Noble Drake.
No problem to me.
It's just the only interpretation I've come up with that doesn't hit some snag or another when Concealability rules come along... like how a lined coat makes things harder to notice, a modifier that I feel must represent the assumption that part of concealability rating is how easily an object is simply removed from view (such as by sliding into a pocket).
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Or, with SR4, Chameleon Coating & Camouflage Shroud.
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If you take away the battery, touchscreen, camera and audio components of an iPhone, you will be left with a unit the size of roughly 40x30x10 mm. Can that fit in the cavity that your eyeball and optical axis/ musculature occupy? Yes.
All other functions (video AR component) is performed through the eyes themselves.
You can use their DNI to supply voice component (just like an embedded headwear commlink does).
Cyber eyes are more than the eyeballs ladies and gentlemen. Those are the cameas and optical part of the system.
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Also, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of Concealability Ratings, Noble Drake.
No problem to me.
It's just the only interpretation I've come up with that doesn't hit some snag or another when Concealability rules come along... like how a lined coat makes things harder to notice, a modifier that I feel must represent the assumption that part of concealability rating is how easily an object is simply removed from view (such as by sliding into a pocket).
Or, with SR4, Chameleon Coating & Camouflage Shroud.
I'd consider these things concealability modifiers, but the name is already taken for the base concealability of gear. :P
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an internal commlink is a headware. not vision enhancements. headware are small complex devices inserted into the head (not eyes) and typically constructed via less-invasive nanosurgery. items that have a capacity cost [in brackets] (like internal commlink do) may be installed in cyberlimbs (not cyberyes) instead, costing capacity rather than essence. cybereyes features capacity for vision enhancements (not headware that have a capacity rating). all vision enhancements are listed with capacity, availability and how much they cost to install as eyeware in cybereyes and they are are also listed with essence cost, availability and how much nuyen they cost to install as eyeware retinal modifications to natural eyes. this is raw. installing a commlink in your cybereyes is not.
You can use an internal commlink (as headware, attached to your brain - not your eyes) to give you a DNI without the need for a data jack or trodes. This mean you can use it for "super AR" without the need for other devices such as cyberyes, image link eyeware retinal modification to your natural eyes or image link in external imaging devices (such as goggles) as well as internal or external sound link, AR gloves etc. It already come modded with a sim module by default so you can also use it for cold-sim VR.