[Emil_Barr]

It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking

If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.

And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?

I think you may find that the internal computing power of a corp network is sufficient to load an invading persona into as opposed to the internal computing power of a cybersamurai's brain

Im not sure what youre trying to say here? That data cant pass through your nervous system? Then cybertech cant work, deckers cant kill eachother through the matrix, riggers cant jump in, and technomancers cant exist.

It would also make it really hard to physically plug into a computer with a datajack and an internal comlink, without having wireless involved in that chain.

There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.

[Xenon]

Cybereyes and the Smartlink in the example above does not have matrix access...
And since they don't have matrix access they don't get wireless bonus
- and they are not open for attacks from the Matrix.

It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking

You are assuming that a wired network would be using the same communication "protocol" as neural signals.
- That is a pretty big leap, isn't it...?

You can have a wired network. This is explained on p.360 under Wired Security. This mean no devices are open for hacking from the Matrix. But you can still physically attach a data tap on the cable between two wireless devices. This let you wireless hack both devices at each end of the cable.

Book also say:

It should be noted, though, that between grids, hosts, IC, spiders, and GODs, corporations are feeling very confident in the security of their wireless networks. This means that runners are only likely to encounter wired security in the hands of the exceedingly protective or paranoid.

There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.

Yes there is. If not, then you should be able to connect your brain wireless to electronic devices without using a commlink and trodes (or a data jack).

[Emil_Barr]

Cybereyes and the Smartlink in the example above does not have matrix access...
And since they don't have matrix access they don't get wireless bonus
- and they are not open for attacks from the Matrix.

They have matrix acces through the datajack. If you arent getting wireless bonuses anyway, then why do you have your wireless on at all?

You are assuming that a wired network would be using the same communication "protocol" as neural signals.
- That is a pretty big leap, isn't it...?

No, thats what allows cybertechnology to work. Even if you were to say that a datajack/cyber converts those protocols, it makes no effective difference. It would do so as the hacker passes through them, just like it would its own data.

You can have a wired network. This is explained on p.360 under Wired Security. This mean no devices are open for hacking from the Matrix. 

That only makes sense if a network doesnt have access to the matrix as a whole. I.e. and entirely local network.

But you can still physically attach a data tap on the cable between two wireless devices. This let you wireless hack both devices at each end of the cable.

Your datajack serves as the tap, and lets me get to any of your cyber devices wired through your neural network. At most, Id see having to hack the datajack first.

Book also say:

It should be noted, though, that between grids, hosts, IC, spiders, and GODs, corporations are feeling very confident in the security of their wireless networks. This means that runners are only likely to encounter wired security in the hands of the exceedingly protective or paranoid.

I really dont think they were thinking about the possibility of a hybrid network when they wrote this. If what you are saying is how it works, a hybrid network is superior to a purely wireless one.

[T-Hatchet]

It would imply to me that, to make their internal systems immune to wireless hacking, corps would just have to have a single wireless access point to give everything on their wired networks matrix access and the wired network would be immune to direct wireless hacking

If that were the case, why would the corps not litter their facilites with "wireless access ports"(so employees can still work wirelessly) and keep the other equipment wired. Youd have less objects to defend (thus you can do so more effecticely) and it would probably be cheaper.

And isnt that basically how things worked in 4e?

I think you may find that the internal computing power of a corp network is sufficient to load an invading persona into as opposed to the internal computing power of a cybersamurai's brain

Im not sure what youre trying to say here?

That is takes up more bandwidth to preform a cyberattack than said brain allows.

That data cant pass through your nervous system?

no
that it takes a heap load of data being transfer and commands being carried out on the devices physical devices acting as intermediaries  to do a cyberattack.

Then cybertech cant work, deckers cant kill eachother through the matrix, riggers cant jump in, and technomancers cant exist.

...

It would also make it really hard to physically plug into a computer with a datajack and an internal comlink, without having wireless involved in that chain.


There is effectively no difference between your nervous system and a wired computer network as far as cyberpunk is concerned.

If there is indeed no difference between someones nervous system and a wired computer network as far as this cyberpunk is concerned hackers of all types could take over metahumans who have any wireless DNI and control them like puppets. Some cyberpunk has that, Shadowrun does not.

[T-Hatchet]

My object in this thread is to help others understand something they are apparently not understanding. I have no interest in an argument for changing Shadowrun.

[Xenon]

They have matrix acces through the datajack.

I am actually not sure they do. The wireless bonus is quite specific that a device need to have wireless ON to have access to the matrix.

If you arent getting wireless bonuses anyway, then why do you have your wireless on at all?

As I said; I don't.
I have wireless OFF in my eyes and my smartlink.

My smartgun have wireless ON. My smartgun have matrix access. My smartgun can be hacked from the Matrix. My smartgun get it's wireless bonuses.

No, thats what allows cybertechnology to work. Even if you were to say that a datajack/cyber converts those protocols, it makes no effective difference. It would do so as the hacker passes through them, just like it would its own data.

You might or might not be correct.

According to RAW  you can hack anything that is wireless ON and have access to the Matrix as a whole, devices with wireless OFF if you connect to the universal access port or two wired devices with wireless OFF if you connect a data tap to the physical wire between them.

You might or might not be able to hack wireless OFF devices that are connected by wire to a device that have wireless ON same as you might or might not be able to hack wireless OFF cyberware that is connected with a neural interface to a data jack that have wireless ON.
- But that is not supported (or explained) by the rules as far as I can see.

I really dont think they were thinking about the possibility of a hybrid network when they wrote this. If what you are saying is how it works, a hybrid network is superior to a purely wireless one.

I am saying that a device that have wireless OFF (but is connected with a wire to another device that have wireless ON) will not get a wireless bonus, will not have access to the matrix as a whole and will not be open from attacks from the Matrix (to hack it you need to physically attach a cable to the universal access port or attach a data tap on the cable between the two devices). I can of course be wrong. As often before the book is ambiguous and can be read in different ways.

[Emil_Barr]

If there isindeed no difference between someones nervous system and a wired computer network asfar as this cyberpunk is concerned hackersof all typescould takeover metahumans who have anywireless DNI and control them likepuppets. Some cyberpunk hasthat, Shadowrun doesnot.

You would appear to be mistaken, as that is what the wireless hacking was introduced to do. A dev even posted a clip of just that happening in GitS and said thats why the wireless hacking rules were awesome.

That is takes up more bandwidth to preform a cyberattack than said brain allows.

...

no
that it takes a heap load of data being transfer and commands being carried out on the devices physical devices acting as intermediaries  to do a cyberattack.

Or garbage code that confuses the device or your brain into damaging itself. Or even purposely malicious code. It doesnt necessarily have to do with excessive amounts of data.

*edit* Actually, this conversation got me thinking. Wireless on for datajack and off for eyes keeps the eyes from.being hacked.

Could a decker then not get an internal deck, turn its wireless off but keep wireless on the datajack on, and thus have their deck be immune to hacking?

[T-Hatchet]

I am an old time second edition player/GM coming back to Shadowrun with the 5th edition being released. I was not here for it being developed and I only sat in on one one-off 4A edition game about 6 months ago.
I am only going by what is written in the 5th edition core rule book which did not seem to imply that metahumans where devices a hacker could remotely control. There cyberlimbs on the other hand... lets say best to leave there wireless off.

[Emil_Barr]

I am an old time second edition player/GM coming back to Shadowrun with the 5th edition being released. I was not here for it being developed and I only sat in on one one-off 4A edition game about 6 months ago.
I am only going by what is written in the 5th edition core rule book which did not seem to imply that metahumans where devices a hacker could remotely control. There cyberlimbs on the other hand... lets say best to leave there wireless off.

You are correct. I missunderstood your previous post.

But honestly, if biodrones work similarly to how they did in 4e... Theres honestly no real reason that a hacker or rigger couldnt do that to a person. After all, a rigger coukd jump ito biodrones like any other drone. It just seems an arbitrary design decision that you cannot, since doing aso to player characters would be rather unfair. (as ithough hacking their cyber isnt potentially :-P)

I suppose in the end Im ok with that being the case.

Im also not quite sure having your wireless off in your arm will help if wireless is on in your datajack though. That is debatable it would seem.

[Wakshaani]

Incidently, you *can* take a Smartgun Link separate from your cybereyes. While it has a capacity cost, it also has an Essence one, just that nobody ever thinks of doing it anymore. (As opposed to the old fogies of early editions, who recall it was a half essence in your hand or you could stick it in your cyberarm.)

And if you do that, there's no reason to turn your eyes Wireless whatsoever.

Just sayin'.

[Xenon]

smartlink eyeware not in cybernetic eyes are retinal modification to your natural eyes and your data jack reach it with the same neural interface as it would if you had smartlink taking capacity in cybernetic eyes.

if you have cybernetic eyes then you cant take smartlink for an essence cost as a retinal modification to your natural eyes, since you don't have any natural eyes. all your eyeware must fit within the capacity of your cybereyes. once your eyes are full then you can't get any more eyeware enhancements.

To get +2 accuracy with your smartgun (and fire around corners for -3 dice) you can link your smartgun with a wire to your data jack if your smartlink is eyeware taking capacity in cybernetic eyes or taking essence as a retinal modification to your natural eyes (or a wire to your goggles if your smartlink is in your goggles).

[Emil_Barr]

Incidently, you *can* take a Smartgun Link separate from your cybereyes. While it has a capacity cost, it also has an Essence one, just that nobody ever thinks of doing it anymore. (As opposed to the old fogies of early editions, who recall it was a half essence in your hand or you could stick it in your cyberarm.)

And if you do that, there's no reason to turn your eyes Wireless whatsoever.

Just sayin'.

You still need an image link for the smartlink I believe. So, potentially, they could mess with you through your imagelink (making it white out your field of vision, etc)

Unless imagelink is no longer required of course.

[ZeConster]

I think they got rid of that requirement.

[Emil_Barr]

I think they got rid of that requirement.

Alrighty. Then yes, that would probably avoid the issue.

[Tagami]

Can you add a commlink (capacity 2) to cybereyes?

If yes, then can you use it for wireless smartlink? I think using one of those and slaving it to the Hacker's PAN (can be used for Tacnet when it's out, as well) or to an external one with good firewall should be usefull.

As for getting your eyes hacked, I don't think the rules allow it. The commlink can be hacked and bricked but the cybereyes will go on functioning. That would answer a lot of the issues here.