Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Longshot23 on <03-30-14/0950:27>
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Yeah . . . .
I actually thought of this when posting on another thread. To wit: what prompted the development of cybermancy? And why do some of the procedures apparently come from 'Ancient' knowledge?
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I imagine it was probably originally seen as an upgrade from the homunculus / golem servants, which relied on an animating spirit. While potentially powerful, they had the weak spot of being disruptable/banishable, though not too easily since they could have an physical anchor.
Binding the living spirit of a metahuman to an object/body removes that threat since you can not exactly banish a 'spirit' on his home plane/turf. But there were probably limits to what that now bound spirit could really do in a normal body. Spirits from other planes tended to have added abilities, whereas the metahuman spirit was pretty much just there to drive a body.
Fast forward an Age and now cybertech gave us all sorts of shinies to attach to said body, but at the cost of breaking the mind/body/spirit link. So someone dusted off some old techniques and fiddled with it a bit to keep the spirit locked into a souped up body, granted with a slew of problems with break down both mental (psychosis and more) and physical (tumors and similar as the body is confused on whether to shut down or keep going).
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Interesting thought process, Sendaz, but I really can't entirely see where it comes from. I won't argue about the possibility of a metahuman-spirit-driven homonculus/golem, as I don't have any serious knowledge of EarthDawn, but I find it unlikely to do so, when it's so much easier (not to mention legal) to bind an Ally to one.
In any case. Longshot, the corporations - or rather, every cybernetics/bioware scientist ever - has wondered how to cram as much 'ware into a body while keeping it alive. Like any facility anywhere, someone bitched about the 'hard limit' at one point or another to a friend or colleague who was doing research on conjured spirits, ritual magic, blood magic, symbolic links, and/or the controlling and binding of ghosts. In essence (pun intended), one thing led to another, and the two of 'em got permission from the money men to start experimenting.
Where the 'ancient knowledge' comes in might refer to several places - either the dragon (Great or otherwise, corrupt/toxic or otherwise) that's rumored to be an integral part of Aztechnology, or the vampires (possibly ancient) who are definitely at the core of the Ordo Maximus, or a blood shaman who managed to wrangle the secret of such bindings from her mentor/totem spirit. It's possible, but not likely, that one of the Immortal Elves or any of the known Great Dragons was involved; they seem to prefer a 'clean' manasphere as much as possible.
The critical knowledge is the magic to control a metahuman spirit, really. We can keep bodies on life support for years IRL; we have no control over the person's soul, and none such has been published in Shadowrun material - for good reason.
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Knowing nothing of the ED Setting,
the entire process screams of Blood magic/necromancy, and who really knows where any of that ancient knowledge comes from?
Who taught Daniel Coyote the Ghost dance?
Who taught the Aztec Blood Mages the blood rituals?
"when you stare long enough into the black, something stares back"
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This is probably one of the "hundred and one" forgotten plot hooks that died the day FASA closed it's doors.... all we can do is guess.... And as GMs, let our minds wonder on to which little "character's personal fear" we are gong to lay the answer to this question at... IF our character go snooping :D
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In any case. Longshot, the corporations - or rather, every cybernetics/bioware scientist ever - has wondered how to cram as much 'ware into a body while keeping it alive. Like any facility anywhere, someone bitched about the 'hard limit' at one point or another to a friend or colleague who was doing research on conjured spirits, ritual magic, blood magic, symbolic links, and/or the controlling and binding of ghosts. In essence (pun intended), one thing led to another, and the two of 'em got permission from the money men to start experimenting.
Where the 'ancient knowledge' comes in might refer to several places - either the dragon (Great or otherwise, corrupt/toxic or otherwise) that's rumored to be an integral part of Aztechnology, or the vampires (possibly ancient) who are definitely at the core of the Ordo Maximus, or a blood shaman who managed to wrangle the secret of such bindings from her mentor/totem spirit. It's possible, but not likely, that one of the Immortal Elves or any of the known Great Dragons was involved; they seem to prefer a 'clean' manasphere as much as possible.
The creation of Cybermancy was more than likely a metahuman innovation so I view the above statement as very likely.
I likewise dislike the notion that metahumanity needed to be "taught" this as it implies that metahumanity is incapable of creating it's own innovations and discoveries.
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The relevant section of Augmentation (pg 143-148) cites three probable sources for the techniques - Aztechnology, Saeder-Krupp and the Heavenherds of the Azanian Federation via Universal Omnitech - and two more possibles - NeoNET and Ordo Maximus - who, weirdly, seem to be connected. Of course, other megacorps aren't left out - MCT and Ares are mentioned. I'm wondering if Deus pursued this line during the Arcology Shutdown, or if it went with cyborgs instead.
Aztechnology uses blood magic (big surprise) techniques, whereas S-K went with another model supposedly coming from Lofwyr. Why he would bother is not clear. It's possible that the Azzie program is/was related to their . . . thing . . . with Juan Atzcapotzalco, if he was in fact a 'vessel' for possession.
I guess I'm looking for fluff pieces about the development of cybermancy - there's enough crunch, considering it's not intended that PCs will get to apply the procedures. Having cybermancy applied to a PC is a whole other sitch . . .
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Seems like it's in part from the Dragons, which likely are trying to get an army that they can use against Mankind. After all, the things are horribly sensitive to Essence Drain so as anti-Horror army they fail horribly. But perhaps they're trying to work out how to make them resistant against that as well, so they can enslave all of mankind and destroy the Horrors with 'em.
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Seems like it's in part from the Dragons, which likely are trying to get an army that they can use against Mankind. After all, the things are horribly sensitive to Essence Drain so as anti-Horror army they fail horribly. But perhaps they're trying to work out how to make them resistant against that as well, so they can enslave all of mankind and destroy the Horrors with 'em.
....
missed your coffee this morning? :P
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Every morning. Though honestly it's the only proper explanation I can think of for why the Dragons would be developing Cybermancy.
As for a lack of coffee, has anyone noticed how Horror becomes Horrible and Horrific, yet Terror becomes Terrible and Terrific? All I can think of is that it went to an 1800s version of wicked.
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Every morning. Though honestly it's the only proper explanation I can think of for why the Dragons would be developing Cybermancy.
I don't think dragons were sitting around going "Hey, know what would be cool?,,,"
In fact, there was nothing like cybertech back in ED, so I doubt very much whatever contributions dragon(s) made to cybermancy was with cyber-Zombies in mind...
I can see a dragon going "I wonder what happens if you trap a soul into a cyber-overloaded body...."
But lets face it, given the life span of a cyber zombie, they are not exactly cost effective. Essentially you are spending millions on cyber and magic just to guarantee a "Dead by" date.... Of course, if they do actually manage to make a cyber-zombie that survives more then a few months... But even then, the applications of such a toy are limited to military use/body guard work...
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Is it unreasonable to assume some CEO told her cyberwear R&D department, "Find a way to cram every possible piece of SOTA into a person by any means necessary" and gave them a huge budget? Cybermancy may be mad mojo, but it's hardly out of left field in the context of the setting.
Known fact #1: Cyberwear weakens the soul's ability to cling to the flesh.
Known fact #2: The soul, or "astral form" can leave the body without killing the person - provided the person is awakened and has this ability.
Therefore, find a way to tether the soul of a person with too much cyberwear to their body. Honestly this seems like a -to paraphrase a meme- Six World Problem with a Sixth World solution. In a way cybermancy is one of the most transhumanist things in the whole setting, it's just more Frankenstein than Eclipse Phase.
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The Ordo has always been connected to cybermancy, especially in the early beginnings. Bet the vamps know something. Was originally mentioned in the old Cybermancy sourcebook of SR2E.
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Seems like it's in part from the Dragons, which likely are trying to get an army that they can use against Mankind. After all, the things are horribly sensitive to Essence Drain so as anti-Horror army they fail horribly. But perhaps they're trying to work out how to make them resistant against that as well, so they can enslave all of mankind and destroy the Horrors with 'em.
Dragons already have their tools (Drakes) and using Cyberzombies seems like something that would be used against dragons rather than for them (A dragon going up against five Cyberzombies would be a fight to see) as Cyberzombies start allowing metahumanity to approach a dragon's level of power.
Something of that nature I would consider most dragons would view as unacceptable.
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Dragons already have their tools (Drakes) and using Cyberzombies seems like something that would be used against dragons rather than for them (A dragon going up against five Cyberzombies would be a fight to see) as Cyberzombies start allowing metahumanity to approach a dragon's level of power.
Seems to me that would be a good reason for Lofwyr to get in on the ground floor of the Cyberzombies
Metahumans are curious sorts and cramming cyber into a meat puppet looks like such a good idea on paper at some point if it could be done we would figure out how to do that. Given the numbers compared to dragons we can flood the field with Cyberzombies.
If you knew that at some point in your life someone was gonna send a dozen of these freaks after your hide wouldn't you want to know where the astral kill switch was?
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Me thinks too many people have "scales on the brains"...... :P And I think you should be looking at a more... Chitinous reason....
The first accounting of Cybermancy that is reliable is from Hatchetman in 2056.
In 2055, the world got it's first world wide glimpse of just what uglies lay beyond the vale.... Bug City.
So, now we have limited lifespan, astral vortex living dead, which lets face it, don't really have much purpose then frontal combat...
Sounds like some other Corp got wigged out by the bugs, and decided to make their own "fire watch" teams... only better.
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IMHO the first mentioned Cyberzombies were Alphas in Never trust an elf. And if I remember correctly, those came from Lofwyr.
Also the fact they are creating Mana void in their vincinity (Not an Aspect. -4 Void IIRC) can give them upper hand when dealing with magical oponents...I wonder if it would be -4 for each cyberzombie present...
On the other hand... if cz's are Dragons assets, why didnt they used them when fighting each other at GEMITO.
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from the magical side, 3 people got fingers pointed at them...
Heavendude hillbilly people (can't remember their name, basically a tradition of bloodlines only.... elven at that...and focused on saving life)
Ordo Maximus: a cabal of "wizards" in England, linked to clout and cash more then actual talent, on the surface.. Below the surface, they have been linked to everything from vampires to blood magic to toxic magic to bug spirits to.. well anything magical and bad.
Aztechnology: One of the worlds only fully PRIVATE megas, this company is just rotten to the core... and remember, "Juan the Zombie" reports had been going on for a while at this point too...
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IMHO the first mentioned Cyberzombies were Alphas in Never trust an elf. And if I remember correctly, those came from Lofwyr.
Also the fact they are creating Mana void in their vincinity (Not an Aspect. -4 Void IIRC) can give them upper hand when dealing with magical oponents...I wonder if it would be -4 for each cyberzombie present...
On the other hand... if cz's are Dragons assets, why didnt they used them when fighting each other at GEMITO.
I generally try to shy away from novels for things that have a rules write up. Writers are given a fair amount of room when they write their fiction, and it has to be that way... So what a novel calls a "Cyber Zombie" (if that is the direct quote), may actually only be someone at 0.25 essence, slanted by the character's viewpoint on life and reality and not actual game definations.. Also, it could be a "chicken and the egg" thing. Who knows when a source book goes from ideas to written, and if the writers of fiction have any insight to write into their stories, or are the stories the inspiration for that splat book write-up?
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I have to read up on cybermancy (I went 1st, 2nd, 5th so I may have missed something) but...
Seems like it's in part from the Dragons, which likely are trying to get an army that they can use against Mankind. After all, the things are horribly sensitive to Essence Drain so as anti-Horror army they fail horribly. But perhaps they're trying to work out how to make them resistant against that as well, so they can enslave all of mankind and destroy the Horrors with 'em.
... this sounds awful close to a campaign I've been working on based on Ghost Rider 2099, Dunk's will, and some reading here and there and everywhere in the books. Except that Big D was arranging for that army to fight for us, not enslave us.
I don't want to say too much (as my players may be about) but suffice to say that the end product of all schemes is magically empowered (offense and defense) war-robots that are driven by e-ghosts. That way they can fight horrors while not creating emotional energies for them to feed on. Various parties, both aware and unaware of the end result, are moving for and against the program.
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Man, can you imagine what happens if Sybil gets their hands on those?
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Yeah, about that... Sybil may or may not be an "unintended consequence" :o of interference by certain parties in the chain of events. As you say, containment may be a priority when they finally piece it together.
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Synthetic bodies + downloaded souls makes interresting possibilities. Syntetic souls escaped from research facility free in shadownet + no synthetic bodies = invasion of natural VR accessible bodies snatchers.
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Should we give them modified cyborg chassis as peace offering?
...Nah, let's just frag 'em up! ;D
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Id say now we frag them or put them back to isolation (as cruel as it may sound). Well once horrors came, lets have an army of those cyborg chasis ready for those souls to jump in. And hope they wont side with horrors
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Id say now we frag them or put them back to isolation (as cruel as it may sound). Well once horrors came, lets have an army of those cyborg chasis ready for those souls to jump in. And hope they wont side with horrors
Great, now I have the funny image of a power ranger's Mechzoid fighting Cthulhu using the space needle as a weapon.
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Is it possible these things were actually created to fight the horrors? And are a precursor to investigations into manatech?
No one said that cyberzombies had to be successful experiments...
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Is it possible these things were actually created to fight the horrors? And are a precursor to investigations into manatech?
No one said that cyberzombies had to be successful experiments...
Looking at that now, IMO cyberzombies are a work in progress. Partly because of ongoing tech R&D, partly because the ambient mana level is ramping up. Assuming cyberzombie development doesn't get abandoned between "now" and the peak mana level, what will cyberzombies be like at that peak?
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Is it possible these things were actually created to fight the horrors? And are a precursor to investigations into manatech?
No one said that cyberzombies had to be successful experiments...
Looking at that now, IMO cyberzombies are a work in progress. Partly because of ongoing tech R&D, partly because the ambient mana level is ramping up. Assuming cyberzombie development doesn't get abandoned between "now" and the peak mana level, what will cyberzombies be like at that peak?
Given the peak is about 2700 years away, the growth of technology, and man's stupidity....
Best not think about it :P
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Look at it this way: The Horrors are only 1900 years away... The peak will be worse than that.
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...And talking about how things are, the technology is still being further developed and tested, still, right? Which means that more and more money can and will be poured into this.
Hell, this is basically immortality. With lots of side effects. It won't take long for someone to say "hey, we've achieved immortality, but it's only temporary." (which is kind of a stupid thing to say), but at this point the question will be "how can we remove the side effects and make this last forever?"
Also. I can just see some "mad" corporate hotshot spouting about achieving immortality or wanting an immortal bodyguard or some nonsense about "my wife has been on life support for years but now I can bring her back". For run settings, you know. Just saying.
...I still can't believe I said temporary immortality.
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Look at it this way: The Horrors are only 1900 years away... The peak will be worse than that.
How do we know that it's 1900 years away?
Each world (2nd, 4th, and now 6th) has had an increase in the number of meta-humans present. This means more magicians per world, and more people putting energy into the manasphere.
The peak might last longer, and thus start earlier, than anyone is planning for...
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The peak might last longer, and thus start earlier, than anyone is planning for...
Within the game Shadowrun Returns, Lofwyr actually mentions that the insect spirits arrived decades earlier than expected; the anti-insect stuff they were developing was intended to be ready and fully distributed before the first insect spirits arrived. The Universal Brotherhood pretty much side-swiped metahumanity on that one.
Add to that humanity's alterations of nature driving Feuerschwinge insane with grief and the fighting among the great dragons themselves... then the ways technology is affecting things and the unusual results popping up as a result of technology (like the Resonance) and the Sybil Virus... One kinda gets the sense that things are not going to plan, but rapidly going wrong on every level and spiraling out of control.
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I think only Dunky and Harley took the fact that the mana spikes have changed things honestly compared to the rest. And, well, one is dead now.
On the other hand, Earthdawn isn't owned by Topps, which means that CGL can't use stuff from it. :'( So who knows what now.
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On the other hand, Earthdawn isn't owned by Topps, which means that CGL can't use stuff from it. :'( So who knows what now.
Ding dong, Earthdawn's dead. And the Horrors along with it, hopefully. :)
I know a lot of people out there liked the Horrors, but I think it's a bit too much. There's a LOT of big baddies out there without the need for another one. Dragons, megacorps, toxic mages, e-ghosts, the nanoware stuff, AIs, and then there's metahumanity itself.
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I think only Dunky and Harley took the fact that the mana spikes have changed things honestly compared to the rest. And, well, one is dead now.
On the other hand, Earthdawn isn't owned by Topps, which means that CGL can't use stuff from it. :'( So who knows what now.
I don't know about only Harley and Dunky knowing that the mana spikes would change stuff. Somehow I think Ehran the Scribe might have known something was up too but of course he wouldn't tell people.
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On the other hand, Earthdawn isn't owned by Topps, which means that CGL can't use stuff from it. :'( So who knows what now.
Ding dong, Earthdawn's dead. And the Horrors along with it, hopefully. :)
I know a lot of people out there liked the Horrors, but I think it's a bit too much. There's a LOT of big baddies out there without the need for another one. Dragons, megacorps, toxic mages, e-ghosts, the nanoware stuff, AIs, and then there's metahumanity itself.
Sure. Why should anyone care about the origins of the setting. What`s next? Adepts? Riggers? Dwarves? Dystopic feeling?
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Within the game Shadowrun Returns, Lofwyr actually mentions that the insect spirits arrived decades earlier than expected; the anti-insect stuff they were developing was intended to be ready and fully distributed before the first insect spirits arrived.
Is this a reference to Dunk's Vaccine (from the will)?
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Sure. Why should anyone care about the origins of the setting. What`s next? Adepts? Riggers? Dwarves? Dystopic feeling?
Shadowrun was created in 1989. Earthdawn was created in 1993. Earthdawn is 100% fluff as far as Shadowrun is concerned, and it opened a lot of doors that can't easily be closed. Was it a mistake? No. Was it for everyone? No. But I don't lament the loss of Earthdawn as much as I'd lament the loss of Shadowrun.
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Within the game Shadowrun Returns, Lofwyr actually mentions that the insect spirits arrived decades earlier than expected; the anti-insect stuff they were developing was intended to be ready and fully distributed before the first insect spirits arrived.
Is this a reference to Dunk's Vaccine (from the will)?
The following is very spoilery.
No. It's a chemical that was developed by Saeder-Krupp and Telestrial's company to fight insect spirits before being handed over to Ares. In Shadowrun Returns main campaign (Dead Man's Switch), you end up using the chemical and prototype launchers to take out a Universal Brotherhood hive in Seattle.
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Sure. Why should anyone care about the origins of the setting. What`s next? Adepts? Riggers? Dwarves? Dystopic feeling?
Shadowrun was created in 1989. Earthdawn was created in 1993. Earthdawn is 100% fluff as far as Shadowrun is concerned, and it opened a lot of doors that can't easily be closed. Was it a mistake? No. Was it for everyone? No. But I don't lament the loss of Earthdawn as much as I'd lament the loss of Shadowrun.
IDK. Earthdawn was created as soon as SR authors realized the need for the mythological/ archeological background that would cover previous worlds. It was more than just an oportunity for another title IMHO. And as we still have some major players from those times active in SR age, we need those things covered. There is thousand and one connections in the lore...Deep Lacuna, Invae, Blood magic, Dragons...Harley&company of immortal&omnipotent heroes (Harlequin, running solo, perfectly able to do thing whole Aztechnology was unable in Denver) we need to have distant past covered, because it is the only place you can look for answers.
Well...I can only hope for more plotlines like Artifact adventures/Unbound. Now everyone seems to be frenzied about some body e-snatchers while they voluntarily use wireless matrix.
I shall go back to my cave to study some old carvings and wait for metahumanity deal with this thranshumanity shit ;)
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And as we still have some major players from those times active in SR age, we need those things covered.
I disagree. When those things get explained, they lose some of their mystery.
Well...I can only hope for more plotlines like Artifact adventures/Unbound.
That would be good. But we don't need Earthdawn to do it. None of these things require Earthdawn in fact. They simply require a mysterious past and a relic from a bygone era of immense power. Whether that relic is living, dead, animate or inanimate is irrelevant to the overall idea that they are mysterious. And IMO, they should remain so.
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Earthdawn was 4th World, right?
What about 2nd World? Artifacts from it? Those could be slipped into Shadowrun with ease, and there's no need to flesh out a backstory for them because there may not be enough left of the people who made them for any backstory to be fleshed out.
Maybe one could help with cybermancy... but is beyond modern humanity's ability to replicate and has side-effects that make use of it questionable.
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Earthdawn was 4th World, right?
What about 2nd World? Artifacts from it? Those could be slipped into Shadowrun with ease, and there's no need to flesh out a backstory for them because there may not be enough left of the people who made them for any backstory to be fleshed out.
Maybe one could help with cybermancy... but is beyond modern humanity's ability to replicate and has side-effects that make use of it questionable.
Like Tomes of AAARGHhhhhhh...
And as we still have some major players from those times active in SR age, we need those things covered.
I disagree. When those things get explained, they lose some of their mystery.
Well...I can only hope for more plotlines like Artifact adventures/Unbound.
That would be good. But we don't need Earthdawn to do it. None of these things require Earthdawn in fact. They simply require a mysterious past and a relic from a bygone era of immense power. Whether that relic is living, dead, animate or inanimate is irrelevant to the overall idea that they are mysterious. And IMO, they should remain so.
I said covered, not completely explained. But when I plan campaign as a GM, I need some informatons to build on to stay at least compatible with main plotlines in the game. And I admit that it is comfortable for me to have some Age of mythology Tomes ro work with, as I dont have time and energy to develope them alone.
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Some explanation is good. Besides, the 4th and 2nd worlds were pretty big, with only a handful of survivors, so there's lots of things that could exist that would be a complete surprise (i.e. the GM can create anything that fits his campaign).
Having the ED background (hey, GMs aren't bound by copyright!) helps flesh out the world, and provides some neat plot hooks.,.. IF you care to use them. But most folks in the 6th World are just trying to get by without worrying about ancient history, and your runners don't have to encounter a single 'weird' thing in order to make for an interesting campaign.
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And as we still have some major players from those times active in SR age, we need those things covered.
I disagree. When those things get explained, they lose some of their mystery.
That would be good. But we don't need Earthdawn to do it. None of these things require Earthdawn in fact. They simply require a mysterious past and a relic from a bygone era of immense power. Whether that relic is living, dead, animate or inanimate is irrelevant to the overall idea that they are mysterious. And IMO, they should remain so.
[/quote]And as we still have some major players from those times active in SR age, we need those things covered.
I disagree. When those things get explained, they lose some of their mystery.
Well...I can only hope for more plotlines like Artifact adventures/Unbound.
That would be good. But we don't need Earthdawn to do it. None of these things require Earthdawn in fact. They simply require a mysterious past and a relic from a bygone era of immense power. Whether that relic is living, dead, animate or inanimate is irrelevant to the overall idea that they are mysterious. And IMO, they should remain so.
::)Oh brother, I forgot, 'Ignorance is bliss', isn't it?
And 'A rose by any other name.....'
Well guessy what? The lore is gonna be called something. Heck, when I first started running Shadowrun, I didn't have access to Earthdawn material so I was 'borrowing' (that's my story, officer 8)) stuff from old AD&D. You don't like be reminded of the Earthdawn lore. Fine-diddly-doodly. But you'll still need some sort of quasi-fantasy background for a relic you might be using for whatever future run involving ancient/lost civilizations.
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::)Oh brother, I forgot, 'Ignorance is bliss', isn't it?
And 'A rose by any other name.....'
Well guessy what? The lore is gonna be called something. Heck, when I first started running Shadowrun, I didn't have access to Earthdawn material so I was 'borrowing' (that's my story, officer 8)) stuff from old AD&D. You don't like be reminded of the Earthdawn lore. Fine-diddly-doodly. But you'll still need some sort of quasi-fantasy background for a relic you might be using for whatever future run involving ancient/lost civilizations.
No you don't. Even now, archaeology discovers relics that have no rhyme or reason for where they are or why they exist. They just do. There's no history one can establish for them; they're just there.
Any one of those relics could be magical in the Shadowrun version of our world.
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Edit. My opinion is at the bottom of the entry. Sorry. :'(
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::)Oh brother, I forgot, 'Ignorance is bliss', isn't it?
And 'A rose by any other name.....'
Well guessy what? The lore is gonna be called something. Heck, when I first started running Shadowrun, I didn't have access to Earthdawn material so I was 'borrowing' (that's my story, officer 8)) stuff from old AD&D. You don't like be reminded of the Earthdawn lore. Fine-diddly-doodly. But you'll still need some sort of quasi-fantasy background for a relic you might be using for whatever future run involving ancient/lost civilizations.
No you don't. Even now, archaeology discovers relics that have no rhyme or reason for where they are or why they exist. They just do. There's no history one can establish for them; they're just there.
Any one of those relics could be magical in the Shadowrun version of our world.
Sure. And as such it can possess power to do something. You need at least idea, as a GM, what odds and challenges their creators tried to solve, to have an insight and to make good story, IMHO. Useless, weak and invaluable artefacts may not survive this long, or they offer only a minor advantages. OTOH well stored, guarded or burried cursed artifacts were there for a reason and in the world of shadowrun they could mean serious troubles.
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::)Oh brother, I forgot, 'Ignorance is bliss', isn't it?
And 'A rose by any other name.....'
Well guessy what? The lore is gonna be called something. Heck, when I first started running Shadowrun, I didn't have access to Earthdawn material so I was 'borrowing' (that's my story, officer 8)) stuff from old AD&D. You don't like be reminded of the Earthdawn lore. Fine-diddly-doodly. But you'll still need some sort of quasi-fantasy background for a relic you might be using for whatever future run involving ancient/lost civilizations.
No you don't. Even now, archaeology discovers relics that have no rhyme or reason for where they are or why they exist. They just do. There's no history one can establish for them; they're just there.
Any one of those relics could be magical in the Shadowrun version of our world.
Sure. And as such it can possess power to do something. You need at least idea, as a GM, what odds and challenges their creators tried to solve, to have an insight and to make good story, IMHO. Useless, weak and invaluable artefacts may not survive this long, or they offer only a minor advantages. OTOH well stored, guarded or burried cursed artifacts were there for a reason and in the world of shadowrun they could mean serious troubles.
Which falls into the same bias that has plagued archaeology for decades and has repeatedly led them to wrong conclusions in the past.
An object does not necessarily have to be created to fulfill a need. It could be the result of an experiment. It could be for entertainment. It could be for decoration. It could even have been created purely for trade or religious purposes. Or it might have just been created for purely artistic reasons or because someone thought it was a neat idea. Or it could have been created in a fit of boredom. There does not have to be a reason why it was created for it to exist; there are plenty of things, even today, that are created for no particular reason at all other than someone doing something because they were bored or because they just felt like doing it.
The ultimate truth is, if the players will never find out it's origin it doesn't matter if the object has one or not. And even if they do find out where it came from, they might never find out why it was made. So unless you plan the whole idea of them going on some quest to discover the history of it, there's point in even writing that history.
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True enought. If you want one shot, amusing game with some mysterious artifact with no consequences in the setting and the world, you dont need anything. If you are planning the Campaign for the Crown of Throal and to find the heir to give dwarves back their honour and to restore their place amongst other meta-races, you need more than just a single artefact with no history.
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True enought. If you want one shot, amusing game with some mysterious artifact with no consequences in the setting and the world, you dont need anything. If you are planning the Campaign for the Crown of Throal and to find the heir to give dwarves back their honour and to restore their place amongst other meta-races, you need more than just a single artefact with no history.
If you end up with multiple dwarven factions vying for the Crown would one refer to the Campaign as 'The Game of Throals'? :P
And would Peter Dinklage the 3rd (grandson to the original) be the Johnson?
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Sequel :)
First things first.
We were at the first 1/3 of planned plotline, when Artifacts came out. I used them to entangle players deeper into the basement of the setting, some of their previoous findings even gave them upper hand when they were dealing with artefact campaigns. We havent finished the 4th yet, as we grew up, started families, got separated by distances as e moved for work etc, and we manage to get to shadowrun one weenekd out of 1/4 of the year, well we still, step by step, move forward :)
I hope we manage to get that done before Alzheimer strikes ;)
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OTOH there is a good chance Martin won`t be able to finish the story for the same reason...