Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rallen12 on <10-03-14/2342:58>
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I can't find it anywhere in street magic or core, if it's there, where is it?
Also have you guys figured out any ways to circumvent the no teleportation rule?
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There aren't any spell creation rules in SR5 (yet?)
And teleportation magic has never existed in SR and as far as I know not in Earthdawn either so the only way to be transported would be with levitation or spirit aid
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Also have you guys figured out any ways to circumvent the no teleportation rule?
Pixel gave the right answer to this, but I'm curious about why you'd want to circumvent the no teleportation rule.
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Well, there is the whole "enter-astral-physically-and-travel-at-ludicrous-speed" thing, that's the closest it gets. But that's a high-end power/spell/whatever from Earthdawn, unavailable to PCs. Or even most NPCs. Harlequin and Ehran both used it after their duel in "Harlequin".
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Yeah, there were a few really high level spells in Earthdawn that allowed you to bodily enter the astral, and move around the world at Astral speeds. But those were the equivalent of 8th or 9th level spells in D&D. The mana levels are still too low for such spells to work for anyone that wasn't present in the 4th world, to be honest. Even if the kids of some of the IEs learned those spells, it is hit or miss whether they'd be able to pull them off.
To continue with the D&D analogy, Shadowrun is a world where the spells cap out at 3rd or MAYBE 4th level spells. The other spells just haven't been (re)discovered yet, and there's not enough mana to use them unless you are a dragon or immortal elf.
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For those that care a new version of Eaethdawn RPG with updated ruleset, new circles, spells, and feats and new story moving the world 20 years forward is coming first part of next year. FASA has everything back in house and ran a successful Kickstarter to make sure all the books can make it to print.
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I do feel there needs to be a spell creation guide in this edition, like there was in 4th.
I haven't looked at it yet, but it might be able to be crossover with a little work.
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I do feel there needs to be a spell creation guide in this edition, like there was in 4th.
I haven't looked at it yet, but it might be able to be crossover with a little work.
In Rules and Such, I did a cross-over of the spell creation rules (more to fix the current broken drain values than anything else), with input from people with more experience doing the math.
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Broken drain values, you say? Do tell me more, good sir!
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Hm? What's this about broken drain values prismite? Is this before or after the errata?
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Hm? What's this about broken drain values prismite? Is this before or after the errata?
Neither, as far as I know. I was commenting on MijRai's last post:
In Rules and Such, I did a cross-over of the spell creation rules (more to fix the current broken drain values than anything else), with input from people with more experience doing the math.
I am curious as to why he felt them broke AND how he fixed them.
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Ah, that explains it. I kinda completely tune out invisible posts. ^_^'
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Hm? What's this about broken drain values prismite? Is this before or after the errata?
Neither, as far as I know. I was commenting on MijRai's last post:
In Rules and Such, I did a cross-over of the spell creation rules (more to fix the current broken drain values than anything else), with input from people with more experience doing the math.
I am curious as to why he felt them broke AND how he fixed them.
If you couldn't tell, Chandra there took offense to me disagreeing with him on a point in a previous discussion, insulted me in a private message, and then blocked me without giving me a chance to clarify the situation. Don't worry about it, it's his problem, not mine.
Anyways, I, like others, felt they were broken due to balance concerns; things like Ball Lightning compared to Blast (on 284, Fireball is in the same boat as Ball Lightning, by the by); Ball Lightning does Force Physical damage with Electricity as the element for Force-1 Drain, compared to Blast, which does Stun damage and no Elemental effect at Force Drain. Meanwhile, both of the single-target LOS versions of those spells have Force-3 Drain. I don't have any other examples come to mind right now, although it is discussed (like I mentioned) in multiple threads in Rules and Such.
As far a how I 'fixed' the issue, I looked back to 4th Edition, took the spell-creation table, brought it over and adjusted the numbers for 5th Edition; Direct spells became weaker than Indirect, so they got a discount, for example. Here's the link, along with the discussion and input from other forum-goers who helped me out in balancing things. http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17407.msg307453#msg307453
It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and it works for making your own spells.
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If you couldn't tell, Chandra there took offense to me disagreeing with him on a point in a previous discussion, insulted me in a private message, and then blocked me without giving me a chance to clarify the situation. Don't worry about it, it's his problem, not mine.
While Michael has a temper, he doesn't do anything as petty as blocking people because they disagree with him on something.
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While Michael has a temper, he doesn't do anything as petty as blocking people because they disagree with him, or falsely accusing them of doing so to him when he knows they don't read his posts and won't notice the false accusation.
He's petty enough to block someone after insulting them rather than let the person explain themselves. And he just said my post is invisible; that suggests he blocked it, since he didn't check for context on what the other person said. It's not a false accusation.
Ah, that explains it. I kinda completely tune out invisible posts. ^_^'
Here's the post I'm referring to, in case you missed what he said.
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The false part of your accusation is that you claim he blocked you solely because you disagreed with him on something. In case you missed what I said.
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I can't find it anywhere in street magic or core, if it's there, where is it?
Also have you guys figured out any ways to circumvent the no teleportation rule?
Sadly there will never be a way to teleport as you think. There are teleport like things, but not for us mere mortals. As for spell creation, is there a specific spell you had in mind that isn't resurrection from the dead or teleportation? We may be able to house rule something for you! We can at least point you to something similar to what you want if we cant make it from scratch!
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The false part of your accusation is that you claim he blocked you solely because you disagreed with him on something. In case you missed what I said.
Let's just leave that behind and not derail the topic any further. :) If he wants to make such silly claims, who really cares? What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
I'm with Imveros, I also am curious as to what spells OP desires. :) Shouldn't be that hard to manage.
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Anyways, I, like others, felt they were broken due to balance concerns; things like Ball Lightning compared to Blast (on 284, Fireball is in the same boat as Ball Lightning, by the by); Ball Lightning does Force Physical damage with Electricity as the element for Force-1 Drain, compared to Blast, which does Stun damage and no Elemental effect at Force Drain. Meanwhile, both of the single-target LOS versions of those spells have Force-3 Drain. I don't have any other examples come to mind right now, although it is discussed (like I mentioned) in multiple threads in Rules and Such.
As far a how I 'fixed' the issue, I looked back to 4th Edition, took the spell-creation table, brought it over and adjusted the numbers for 5th Edition; Direct spells became weaker than Indirect, so they got a discount, for example. Here's the link, along with the discussion and input from other forum-goers who helped me out in balancing things. http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17407.msg307453#msg307453
It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and it works for making your own spells.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's broken or even wrong!
Blast can be better than Fireball and Ball Lightning because you can't add an additional 1-6 points of resistance to the roll. There are three metatypes that have a bonus to BOD, but only one that has a bonus to WIL.
Making something go BOOM and not caring about the consequences should not be harder than delicately manipulating it to just cause bruises.
As a Shadowrunner it's already in a lot of circumstances better to cause Stun damage, there doesn't need to be any more incentive in drain values. It's a kind of balance. And fluff is mutable either way.
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Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's broken or even wrong!
Blast can be better than Fireball and Ball Lightning because you can't add an additional 1-6 points of resistance to the roll. There are three metatypes that have a bonus to BOD, but only one that has a bonus to WIL.
Making something go BOOM and not caring about the consequences should not be harder than delicately manipulating it to just cause bruises.
As a Shadowrunner it's already in a lot of circumstances better to cause Stun damage, there doesn't need to be any more incentive in drain values. It's a kind of balance. And fluff is mutable either way.
Like I said; I'm not the only one to think it. And it definitely has issues, given the wild variations in Drain Values, which has gotten some errata in Street Grimoire after I wrote out my chart, thankfully.
Blast is also a Physical spell- it targets Body too. And that 1-6 points of resistance really isn't much of a drawback compared to the side effects of Elements. You can use acid to melt through their armor, making it weaker, set them on fire, make their armor literally break off of them with cold (it applies to weapons according to the description, but it doesn't give precise mechanics), or just electrocute them and slow them down, even if it doesn't hurt them as much immediately.
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given the wild variations in Drain Values, which has gotten some errata in Street Grimoire since I wrote out that chart, thankfully.
I hope you're not trying to take credit for the drain value changes in errata?
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given the wild variations in Drain Values, which has gotten some errata in Street Grimoire since I wrote out that chart, thankfully.
I hope you're not trying to take credit for the drain value changes in errata?
I'm not, thanks for pointing that out. Editing the post for clarification.
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I hope you're not trying to take credit for the drain value changes in errata?
Oh! If I was the first one to point out an error to Aaron that made in into the errata, can I take credit for it? LOL
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I hope you're not trying to take credit for the drain value changes in errata?
Oh! If I was the first one to point out an error to Aaron that made in into the errata, can I take credit for it? LOL
*plants a flag on the Shapechange nerf* I claim this erratum in the name of me!
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Well i know there aren't teleportation spells because of the mana levels and such, but i asked for ways to circumvent it, i had in thought the closest would be the Magician transforming himself into electricity and "ride" electric cables,depending on what they're made of it would influence the speed at which the mage travels, or something along those lines which i think there must be something that prevents that for sure, but it's just an idea.
and i like the rules because i just liked having them there, i'm terrible at homebrewing things it just ends up overpowered or underpowered and i can't come here every-time, i have an idea for something, now can i?
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A Channeling mage scoring 7 hits on an Edged Horse shapeshift, pumping every hit into Agility, then using a Force 12 Increase Agility to grab 16 Agility and using a Force 12 oversummoned Channeled Spirit with Movement to top it off, can run at nearly twice the speed of sound if you want fast travel using shapeshift tricks and other magical boosts. But transforming not into a critter but into electricity sounds like it's not possible.
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I hope you're not trying to take credit for the drain value changes in errata?
Oh! If I was the first one to point out an error to Aaron that made in into the errata, can I take credit for it? LOL
*plants a flag on the Shapechange nerf* I claim this erratum in the name of me!
Somebody make a note of this man's troubleshooting skills.
Back on the subject, while the idea of playing the Flash is absolutely awesome... Well, what happens if you run into a wall? Using this trick anywhere except for a desert, grass- or snow-covered plain sounds hazardous, at best. Flight sounds a bit safer. Any suggestions on duplicating Peri's "levitate-at-Mach-4" trick (or rather, a poor man's substitute of it)?
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Well, dragons are ... unique. They have an understanding of magic that I don't think a mortal mind could necessarily comprehend. So I'd say that if you're going to grant flight, make it like Levitation, but with a drain of about F+20. Maybe higher. Those kinds of spells aren't intended for PCs, and they don't need rules for an NPC to make a dramatic effect on a game.
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Back on the subject, while the idea of playing the Flash is absolutely awesome... Well, what happens if you run into a wall? Using this trick anywhere a desert grass- or snow-covered plain sounds hazardous, at best. Flight sounds a bit safer. Any suggestions on duplicating Peri's "levitate-at-Mach-4" trick (or rather, a poor man's substitute of it)?
The problem is that SR5 Core doesn't have any flying mundane critters, so I couldn't grab one of those as example. ^_^' Since we don't know what their walk/run rates would be in SR5, I can't really grab a random example from SR4.
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A Channeling mage scoring 7 hits on an Edged Horse shapeshift, pumping every hit into Agility, then using a Force 12 Increase Agility to grab 16 Agility and using a Force 12 oversummoned Channeled Spirit with Movement to top it off, can run at nearly twice the speed of sound if you want fast travel using shapeshift tricks and other magical boosts. But transforming not into a critter but into electricity sounds like it's not possible.
To prevent these kinds of shenanigans, my table limited the stat boosts from shapeshifting to the augmented maximum. Kind of nerfs the spell a tad, but we still had a dog running at 200kmh.
smh.
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Doesn't that kinda clash with augmented subjects though? Seems a bit harsh.
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It may be ... but the rule was implemented before the errata changed ALL STATS to A STAT per hit..
I agree that we should re-address it now that its been changed.
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I can't find it anywhere in street magic or core, if it's there, where is it?
Also have you guys figured out any ways to circumvent the no teleportation rule?
Maybe one day we will get a book that has all the useful Magic stuff in it.
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This is very unlikely to happen, Zar, unless someone goes for it on their own. Pixel did some effort to track the differing options and posted them.