Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Tarislar on <01-15-15/2321:12>
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Chicago Conmage
Possible Missions S5 Character that I altered to use Sum-2-10 if ever approved.
What do you guys think?
Playable or needs more combat focus?
4-Attr/Mag
2-Skills
0-Hum/Cash
Attr (24)
B3, A4, R5, S1, W5, L3, I5, C6
Edg-3 Mag-6 Ess-6 Itv-10+1d
Plim-4 Mlim-6 Slim-8
Skills (38+2G)
Group-Influence-2 (Etiquette, Leadership, Negotiation)
Binding-6
Con-6 (Mentor+2) Fast Talk+2
Perception-6
Sneaking-6
Spellcasting-6 Manipulation+2
Summoning-6
Spells (10)
Acid Stream, StunBolt
Detect Enemies XR
Heal, Increased Charisma
Trid Phantasm
Alter Memory, Control Thoughts, Fling, Physical Barrier
Karma: 25+25 Negatives = 50
30-PP
10-Cash
5-Mentor Spirit – Deception
3-Contacts
2-Bound Spirits
Contacts: 18+3
Johnson/Fixer – 6/1
Other – 5/2 (Looking for suggestions here, was thinking Government type)
Fence – 1/6
Power Points-6
3.5 Improved Reflexes-3
0.5 Combat Sense-1
0.5 Heightened Concentration
0.5 Magic Sense
0.5 Melanin Control
0.5 Motion Sense
0.0 Traceless Walk
0.0 Voice Control-1
Gear:
2000 - Low Lifestyle
7500 - Fake SIN-3
1600 - Fake License-4 = Magic & Explosives
5000 - Growler
1000 - Commlink-Renraku Sensai
1400 - Globetrotter Jacket-(Fire-4) & Helmet
800 - Flashbang*6, HE Grenade*2
6000 - Reagents*300
700 - Remainder
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Never take the Increase Reflexes spell when you can take the Improved Reflexes power. Since you have no Sustaining Focus, you're gonna have some problems with dice pools lacking the focus and needing to do other stuff. And I wouldn't think you need to dump 3.5 into it. Rating 2 is enough.
Why AGI 4? You have no skills tied to it at all.
I think both Magic Sense and Astral Perception is pretty redundant.
I know you're low on money but you definitely are taking a few powers that would just be better in qi foci than bought with PP.
Buying bound spirits isn't worth the money. Do it pre-run in the legwork stage.
You want Stunbolt. Don't get the Combat Sense spell, stick with the power. Maybe get Extended Detect Enemies and Levitate.
This character is playable but kinda narrow in terms of what you can do.
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Buying bound spirits isn't worth the money. Do it pre-run in the legwork stage.
I think it's because he doesn't have a high enough Binding pool to get any Force 6 Spirits. Since it would be played in Missions, you would buy dice (I think), which means he would need to bind a Force 5 or lower Spirit. Not that it's that big of a deal, but that's the only reason I can think of. That and he would need a lot more reagents than he has (although he should get at least 50 for general purposes).
I would get some Disposable Needles with some Narcoject and/or Laes. Makes a pretty nasty combination with Fling. If you can fit Magic Fingers in there, it's even better, as you can pull the needle away and leave virtually no trace of an attack.
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I would point out that you have no counter spelling or magic resist of any kind. Seems like a weak point to me, but that said not bad.
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I think the plan is to use Heightened Concentration to offset the sustaining penalty of at least one spell. Depending on how you interpret the power you could combine with Psyche to sustain up to three spells with no penalty (other than risking drug addiction of course.)
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You have Astral Perception, don't really need Magic Sense.
Get Leadership up if your going to take commanding voice.
Connection 5 would be something like a Mayor. I personally take Shark Lawyer Connection 5 for some of my more Troublemaking characters.
Black Troll name Johnnie, feel free to use.
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Never take the Increase Reflexes spell when you can take the Improved Reflexes power. Since you have no Sustaining Focus, you're gonna have some problems with dice pools lacking the focus and needing to do other stuff. And I wouldn't think you need to dump 3.5 into it. Rating 2 is enough.
Why AGI 4? You have no skills tied to it at all.
I think both Magic Sense and Astral Perception is pretty redundant.
I know you're low on money but you definitely are taking a few powers that would just be better in qi foci than bought with PP.
Buying bound spirits isn't worth the money. Do it pre-run in the legwork stage.
You want Stunbolt. Don't get the Combat Sense spell, stick with the power. Maybe get Extended Detect Enemies and Levitate.
This character is playable but kinda narrow in terms of what you can do.
For both Improved Reflexes and Combat Sense, you suggest the power. May I ask why? I always thought the spell was better mechanically (granted, I have a focus and/or Focused Concentration for both).
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Never take the Increase Reflexes spell when you can take the Improved Reflexes power. Since you have no Sustaining Focus, you're gonna have some problems with dice pools lacking the focus and needing to do other stuff. And I wouldn't think you need to dump 3.5 into it. Rating 2 is enough.
Why AGI 4? You have no skills tied to it at all.
I think both Magic Sense and Astral Perception is pretty redundant.
I know you're low on money but you definitely are taking a few powers that would just be better in qi foci than bought with PP.
Buying bound spirits isn't worth the money. Do it pre-run in the legwork stage.
You want Stunbolt. Don't get the Combat Sense spell, stick with the power. Maybe get Extended Detect Enemies and Levitate.
This character is playable but kinda narrow in terms of what you can do.
For both Improved Reflexes and Combat Sense, you suggest the power. May I ask why? I always thought the spell was better mechanically (granted, I have a focus and/or Focused Concentration for both).
Because you don't need to sustain them. Improved Reflexes grants you anywhere between +1-3 Reaction and +1d6-3d6 Initiative Dice. For Increase Reflexes to match that, you would need 2 hits at the lowest level, 4 hits at the middle level, and 6 hits at the highest level. Well, not quite, it's a little different, but not by much. Not only does that change what Force is necessary, but you also don't even get Reaction from Increase Reflexes. You really only need 1 level of Combat Sense to always get the Dodge chance. Extra levels of it are nice, but really you just need 1 level. The spell version can be better, worse, or the same as the Power, but the Power doesn't need to be sustained.
Basically, you don't have to worry about Sustaining 2 spells, having to cast either one of them, and it gives you 2 more spell slots.
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8-bit nailed it. Having stuff that is always on is pretty much always better than something that needs an action to activate (in your case, to get both Increase Reflexes and Combat Sense spells up, you need 2 complex actions, or to reckless spell cast both, each as a simple, at higher Drain values), or needs an item or quality to sustain. Always-on is clearly better than something that takes actions to put up, because you cannot assume you'll have time to buff and sustained spells stand out on the astral.
Also having 2 ranks in the Combat Sense power and then casting the spell...I wouldn't think they stack but that the higher value supersedes (likely the spell if you get a few hits). Just my impression on the matter.
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Thanks for the input so far guys.
In regards to CS-Spell v/s CS-Power.
They are mechanically different.
1 offers A+B, the other offers B+C, yes, they do overlap in the B area (Dodge Dice), but they are not the same thing.
To me that would mean they stack, especially since they have no fluff about not stacking with other things.
Like say Increased Reaction that contains that disclaimer.
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Never take the Increase Reflexes spell when you can take the Improved Reflexes power. Since you have no Sustaining Focus, you're gonna have some problems with dice pools lacking the focus and needing to do other stuff. And I wouldn't think you need to dump 3.5 into it. Rating 2 is enough.
Why AGI 4? You have no skills tied to it at all.
I think both Magic Sense and Astral Perception is pretty redundant.
I know you're low on money but you definitely are taking a few powers that would just be better in qi foci than bought with PP.
Buying bound spirits isn't worth the money. Do it pre-run in the legwork stage.
You want Stunbolt. Don't get the Combat Sense spell, stick with the power. Maybe get Extended Detect Enemies and Levitate.
This character is playable but kinda narrow in terms of what you can do.
I like Reflexes Power, my current character uses it at L3. That said, its a lot of points & I was looking for something different.
HC allows me to maintain it till I pick up a Focus or Quickening after a few missions.
What would you do with the Agi points? Where would you put them? Agi affects a huge # of skills that I would likely pick up while playing even if I'm not starting out with them. Being able to have 4 + Boost + Level 1-2 skill will allow me to do many of those at a "get by" level as secondary skills.
What do you see as the difference between a PP Power & a Qi Foci power ?
I had 2 Karma left. I considered Arcana-1 to push towards my first Initiation, but I don't have the Cash to have a spirit bound by Mission 1 & 2 Karma is a very small amount to have a pair of Force-6 Spirits on hand in an emergency for that first run.
I don't want Stunbolt, not in 5E. Damage is way too limited for a single target.
I like Levitate & have DEXR on my current character so both good suggestions, was just looking for something I hadn't thought of that might catch my eye. I'm a little disappointed in the Detection spells outside of a few key ones. (AnaTruth, CombSense, DetEnXR, & MindProbe) The rest seem so limited or very situational.
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I would get some Disposable Needles with some Narcoject and/or Laes. Makes a pretty nasty combination with Fling. If you can fit Magic Fingers in there, it's even better, as you can pull the needle away and leave virtually no trace of an attack.
I like this!
I was looking at Shuriken & Grenades but this is very nice.
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I would point out that you have no counter spelling or magic resist of any kind. Seems like a weak point to me, but that said not bad.
I'm looking at using Spirits/Magical Guard for CS.
Its worked well so far in my current group where the 2 casters have 7 CS dice between them & then augment with Spirits that boost higher.
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You have Astral Perception, don't really need Magic Sense.
Get Leadership up if your going to take commanding voice.
I find there is enough difference, like being able to sense where vision is blocked, that its worth the overlap.
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You really only need 1 level of Combat Sense to always get the Dodge chance. Extra levels of it are nice, but really you just need 1 level. The spell version can be better, worse, or the same as the Power, but the Power doesn't need to be sustained.
Basically, you don't have to worry about Sustaining 2 spells, having to cast either one of them, and it gives you 2 more spell slots.
What would you suggest I give up for 3.5 points of IR?
The point of this was to see what HC+spell does & free up room for more PP into the non-combat side of things.
IE, He's a CON-Mage, not a Combat-Mage.
What would you do different to pick up the effects of L2/3 IR?
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As I said, you don't need 3.5 points of IR. Rating 2 is pretty much always sufficient so long as your INT + REA is decent.
Relying on spirits for counterspelling is extremely dangerous, and potentially expensive if you rely on Binding them.
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You really only need 1 level of Combat Sense to always get the Dodge chance. Extra levels of it are nice, but really you just need 1 level. The spell version can be better, worse, or the same as the Power, but the Power doesn't need to be sustained.
Basically, you don't have to worry about Sustaining 2 spells, having to cast either one of them, and it gives you 2 more spell slots.
What would you suggest I give up for 3.5 points of IR?
The point of this was to see what HC+spell does & free up room for more PP into the non-combat side of things.
IE, He's a CON-Mage, not a Combat-Mage.
What would you do different to pick up the effects of L2/3 IR?
Personally, I don't mind having the Increase Reflexes Spell that you can sustain and boost with reagents. Especially as a Mystic Adept, and a non-combat focused one at that, Improved Reflexes is just really expensive.
That said, if I were to drop anything, here's what I would drop. Enhanced Perception, Agility Boost, Linguistics, 1 level of Combat Sense, and maybe Astral Perception. I don't know though, that's a lot of stuff to drop.
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You can be a con-mage all you want but if you're relatively unprepared to be in deadly fights you just kinda reap what you sow.
But I mean there's always IP-boosting drugs. 8-but is right, that's a lot to give up
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I guess I see the benefit of having it as a power, but I always just have Combat Senses sustained by Focused Concentration using 6 reagents and Increased Reflexes in a Force (whatever I can afford) Sustaining focus (with reagents, if necessary).
It's only a problem unless you walk through a barrier or are caught by surprise (which I make a habit of not doing :P).
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I guess I see the benefit of having it as a power, but I always just have Combat Senses sustained by Focused Concentration using 6 reagents and Increased Reflexes in a Force (whatever I can afford) Sustaining focus (with reagents, if necessary).
Aye, as I was looking at Chicago it seems like, if I'm understanding this right, that Force/Foci all get gimped so the Reagents trick doesn't really work there.
Thus taking me eventually to the idea of using Heightened Concentration for a single spell at a higher force & focusing on "other" abilities.
Which is going to mess with Perception & Command, gah, how did I miss that? Back to the drawing board.
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Ouch. :/ Anyway you can get Cleansing early?
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Updated to remove as much Adept PP stuff that affected Dice Pools as possible since it will just penalize them w/ Background count.
What do you think now?
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Question for you all.
Clout v/s Stunbolt: What do you prefer?
I'm torn between easier to hit bouncy targets & the higher DV/AP.
Thoughts?
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i prefer clout. my current 8 magic 5 initiate mage, doesn't have a single direct damage spell. i suppose stunbolt could be useful against a really force spirit.
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Question for you all.
Clout v/s Stunbolt: What do you prefer?
I'm torn between easier to hit bouncy targets & the higher DV/AP.
Thoughts?
Clout is for knocking out low to mid power targets. You will use it more, and if you only have one at creation I would go with that. Its nice to have a direct spell, however, for targets that a difficult to damage with you indirect spells, and for astral. If you don't have room in your lineup at creation pick it up early with karma.
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So this character isn't going to make it to Chicago but the overall concept I'm thinking of using for a Denver group starting next week.
This is my current twist on the concept, adjusted for Denver.
When I first got the Conmage idea I think I'd been watching a lot of "The Mentalist" on Netflix.
Please let me know what you think.
Attributes: 24
Body-3
Agility-4
Reaction-5/8
Strength-1
Willpower-5
Logic-3
Intuition-5
Charisma-6
Edge-3
Essence-6
Magic-6
Initiative-10/13 + 1/4d6
Physical Limit-4/5
Mental Limit-6
Social Limit-8
Composure-11
Judge Intention-11
Lift/Carry-4
Memory-8
Dodge-14
Armor-12
Soak-15
Skills:
Binding-6
Con-6 (Mentor+2) (FastTalk+2)
Counterspelling-6 (Dispelling)
Disguise-2 (Facial Sculpt+1)
Palming-2
Perception-6
Sneaking-2 (Traceless Walk-4)
Spellcasting-6 (Manipulation+2)
Summoning-6
Knowledge Skills:
Spanish-1 (Speaking+2)
Magical Theory-1 (Power Sites+2)
Club Music-1 (Wiz Punk+2)
Flat Screen Films-1 (Movie Quotes+2)
Denver Knowledge-1 (PCC Sector+2)
Organized Crime-1 (Kachina Society+2)
St.Gang ID-1 (PCC Sector+2)
Police Procedures-1 (Checkpoints+2)
Power Points: 6
Agility Boost-1 (0.25)
Combat Sense-1 (0.5)
Eidetic Memory Sense (0.5)
Facial Sculpt-1 (0.25)
Heightened Concern (0.5)
Improved Reflexes-3 (3.5)
Melanin Control (0.5)
Traceless Walk (0.0)
Voice Control-1 (0.0)
Contacts:
Fixer - 6/1
Mr. 'Ares' Johnson - 5/2
PCC Police Detective - 2/2
Qualities:
Creature of Comfort - Medium
DayJob - 1000
Jack of all Trades
Mentor Spirit - Deception
Mystic Adept - Myal
Phobia - Rare/Mild - Scorpions
SINner - PCC
Spirit Whisperer
Trust Fund - Medium+500
Spells:
Acid Stream
Clout
Detect Enemies XR
Heal
Increased Willpower
Trid Phantasm
Alter Memory
Control Thoughts
Fashion
Fling
Gear: (Seriously lacking here but what can you do, I'll be working on it during the campaign)
1430 Globetrotter Jacket (NonCon-4)
w/ 2 Hidden Pockets & 1 Faraday Pocket
140 Regular Clothing *7
20 Backpack
975 Polychromatic Contacts w/ Flare Comp & Image Link
100 Survival Knife
100 Meta Link
100 Microtransceiver
100 Bicycle (Cheap)
5 Credstick-Standard
5 Datachips (10)
5 Security Tags (10)
200 Flashbang*2
2820 Reagents*141
6000 Subtotal
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Phobia - Rare/Mild - Scorpions
Uh. Lived in Denver for a few years, Scorpions aren't so much rare as literally you'll only see them in Zoos. Way too cold for Scorpions here. Unless your game is headed to Arizona or New Mexico you could just as well take Phobia Andromedans. If your GM is okay with it, carry on.
As mentioned IR 3 is overkill.
Facial Sculpt and Melanin Control? You're a spell caster, pick up Physical Mask.
Eidetic Memory Sense? If it's a character pick rock on, but otherwise pass.
Agility Boost 2 is what the cool kids take.
Combat Sense is better with bigger numbers.
Gear... uh. Lots of games I'm okay with a character not taking a fake SIN at char gen. It really is something that could be picked up a few runs in for most games, but not Denver. Denver is one of those cities where I would expect SIN checks as a daily in a runners life. YMMV, but throwing Karma at Nuyen is going to happen with Resources E.
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Uh. Lived in Denver for a few years, Scorpions aren't so much rare as literally you'll only see them in Zoos. Way too cold for Scorpions here. Unless your game is headed to Arizona or New Mexico you could just as well take Phobia Andromedans. If your GM is okay with it, carry on.
As mentioned IR 3 is overkill.
Facial Sculpt and Melanin Control? You're a spell caster, pick up Physical Mask.
Eidetic Memory Sense? If it's a character pick rock on, but otherwise pass.
Agility Boost 2 is what the cool kids take.
Combat Sense is better with bigger numbers.
Gear... uh. Lots of games I'm okay with a character not taking a fake SIN at char gen. It really is something that could be picked up a few runs in for most games, but not Denver. Denver is one of those cities where I would expect SIN checks as a daily in a runners life. YMMV, but throwing Karma at Nuyen is going to happen with Resources E.
Good to know about Scorpions.
I hadn't thought about it, as I AM in AZ & this guy is from the PCC so it is really common here.
I was looking for something annoying w/o being so generic as to take Spiders or Roaches.
Hmm, I guess 12+3D will leave him at 3 actions each turn much of the time.
I might just look into that & then pick up Magic Sense & Motion Sense for that extra point, which I also love.
Mask is great for getting by someone quick I guess, but I was looking for something that I didn't have to sustain.
Eidetic is for RP reasons & just to be able to recall anything we saw before. Like I said, watching too much Mentalist, Numbers, & Lie to Me, when I thought of this guy. I pictured him as sort of a ConArtist / Charlatan type, holding fake Seance, using his spirits to "contact the dead" very 20th century feel set for the 2070's.
More AgiBoost & CombatSense certainly isn't a bad thing, but I get the basics of each & can take more later with Foci or Initiations.
In the mean time I wanted that Surprise Check & the avg 2 Agi dice for now.
I completely get what your saying about Cash for SIN.
I'm dreading it as it was bad enough with my Seattle character a couple years ago who started out in the same boat.
I could give up JoaT at Chargen for an extra $4k & then skip the Reagents for a quick bind of my 1st Spirit that I was planning on.
Then in turn pick up a single Fake-2, but I feel like that thing is going to get burned about as fast as it would take me to save up for a better one.
I'm also considering changing over a Contact to be a Coyote/Smuggler to get across boarders instead.
Thanks for the IR suggestion, I think that's a for sure option & I'll see what I can do about getting around across boarder options.
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Thanks again for the suggestions.
Got to play in our first game last weekend.
I'm not sure if its a Missions Season 2 scenario or if its a home brew or if its some other scenario.
We only got about 1/2ish way through.
Hired by 1 smuggler to find out what happened to his partner, another smuggler.
The changes I made were pretty minor but I think it managed to cover up some of the weaknesses.
Reaction-5/7
Initiative-10/12 + 1/3d6
Physical Limit-4/4
Dodge-13
Power Points: 6
Improved Reflexes-2 (2.5)
Magic Sense (0.5)
Motion Sense (0.5)
Contacts:
Mr. 'Ares' Johnson - 5/2
ZDF Investigations Officer - 4/2
PCC Council Assistant - 3/2
Qualities:
Phobia - Rare/Mild - Snakes
I didn't end up getting a Fake-SIN but changed around the contacts to work with the Day Job & Real SIN to give him a reason to have to move between the sectors for his non-shadow work.
I'll still be getting a Fake for sure, but in the short term this seems to be workable.
Also, this game up in the game.... What do you roll for the Spellcasting Test when using the Magic Sense power?
I'm going to ask in the other forums areas but curious if there has been a ruling on this anywhere.
My thought is replace Spellcasting w/ Intuition, but, I can't find anything.