Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: anchoress on <06-10-15/1638:01>
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Hey folks,
starting my SR5 campaign very soon. Today i recieved the character build of one of my players. Here is the build in short. I will explain afterwards what is my problem:
== Info ==
Name: Sparky
Elf
Movement: 10/20
Composure: 12
Judge Intentions: 12
Lift/Carry: 4 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 9
== Attributes ==
BOD: 2
AGI: 5
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 8
INT: 4
LOG: 5
WIL: 4
EDG: 2
RES: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Physical Damage Track: 9
Stun Damage Track: 10
Physical: 3
Mental: 6
Social: 9
Initiative: 7 + 1d6
Matrix VR Cold Init: 4 + DP + 3d6
Matrix VR Hot Init: 4 + DP + 4d6
== Active Skills ==
Clubs = 1 Pool: 6
Compiling (Fault) = 3 Pool: 8 (10)
Computer = 3 Pool: 8
Cybercombat = 5 Pool: 10
Electronic Warfare = 5 Pool: 10
Gymnastics = 3 Pool: 8
Hacking = 5 Pool: 10
Longarms = 4 Pool: 9
Perception = 2 Pool: 6
Performance = 3 Pool: 12
Pilot Ground Craft = 2 Pool: 5
Registering = 3 Pool: 8
Software = 4 Pool: 9
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Seattle = 3 Pool: 7
Bars and Clubs = 3 Pool: 7
English N
Matrix Games = 4 Pool: 8
Music = 4 Pool: 8
Sign Language = 4 Pool: 8
Sperethiel = 4 Pool: 8
== Contacts ==
Weapon Merchant (CON: 3, LOY: 1)
Smuggler (CON: 2, LOY: 2)
Technomancer (CON: 3, LOY: 3)
Street Doc (CON: 3, LOY: 2)
== Qualities ==
Codeblock (-2 DP to Hide actions)
Codeslinger (+2 DP to Data Spike)
Distinctive Style (mute)
Go big or go home
Gremlins (Rating 1)
Inspired (Performance)
Low-Light Vision
Ninja Vanish
Otaku to Technomancer
Phobia (Uncommon, Mild) (Fear of dolls)
SINner (National) (California Free State)
Technomancer
== Commlink ==
Living Persona (ATT: 8, SLZ: 4, DP: 5, FWL: 4)
Player said, that she is an orphan, recently moved to Seattle. Doesn't feel comfortable in the "normal" areas, so she hides herself and the fact that she is a TM in the shadows. Works as a DJ from time to time. But i guess with all her qualities, she is not known for silent matrix operations. And matrix operations are the only thing she can offer to a Johnson. So, why would you hire her? How would you get her involved into a run? I'm a little bit confused, to be honest. Her motivation is "living the adventure". So it looks to me like she is a matrix action jackson. But looking at the stats i'm not quite sure, what she really has to offer to a Johnson besides frying some poor decker's deck in a blink. But most of the time you only Brute Force/Data Spike your way in if things are going wrong. So what will she do until then? She can shoot a bit, but with defence 7 and BOD 2 she will get one-shot by a random ganger, she is not able to sneak... sorry, I'm just confused.
So, final question: How would you handle this situation with your player? Ask him to change some stats? To search for another motivation for his character? To make a new build? Build a story around a friend of the character getting involved in some random shit in the shadows? I'm not sure... please, if you guys can, help me!!
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Ask the Player what she is signing up as? Hacker, shooter or DJ? Shadowrun teams don't really need a DJ.... *shrug*
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So, why would you hire her?
1. That character is (Sprites, hey!) good at hacking;
2. That character is good at hacking and the Fixer suspects her being a Technomancer so scumbag mr.Fixer wants to confirm it and sell her to a corp X.
3. Cha 8. She's someone's girlfriend (IC) and founds out about her friend's runner career. So they share a bounty.
4. That character was a runner back before and her rep is good.
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Classic example of issues with starting Technos.
I mean the character is dead man walking in any fight, has none of the basic social skills, and while she can murder almost anything with a matrix damage track like weasel at rabbit convention, she's not going to be a stunningly useful asset without some more development.
Now that said how to get her involved? Contacts! Her techno friend talk to your Johnson's friend talk who talked to the Johnson so on and so forth.
Once the player comes to understand that not having etiquette is fail, a quick character re-write and the glaring issues can be fixed.
btw does anyone else think that is very weird that Otaku to techno doesn't include a data jack? (Sorry off track)
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Well, the Otaku were.... how shall we say this.... the precurser to techno's. Kinda like Homo Erectus to Homo Sapien...
The Otaku still needed datajacks to connect, while techno's evolved a way to wirelessly tap into the marrix.
Of course, this MIGHT have been an Otaku ability too.... but with the old wired matrix, there was no wireless signal to pick up...
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I like helping players optimize to their concept. A lot of your player's central concept can easily be RP/knowledge skills only, and you can build a competent technomancer build that still fits in with all of that.
Also ... Gremlins? In a technomancer? :/ Depending on how you interpret rules, thats ... eh ...
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I mean the character is dead man walking in any fight, has none of the basic social skills, and while she can murder almost anything with a matrix damage track like weasel at rabbit convention, she's not going to be a stunningly useful asset without some more development.
There are mechanical issues with the character. If your player is interested in assistance feel free to direct them our way. Or not.
And she can't murder much with matrix damage with dice pools of 10. But we can help if the player wants it. Good luck mr. GM!
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The lack of social skills with a mute is somewhat forgivable.
Question would be how many people understand sign language, or mistake it for "evil technomancy"
Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
SINner: maybe have her switch it to UCAS or Seattle.
Why would a CalFree SINner know so much about Seattle?
Playstyle: she'd have to be a ninja, or she's not going to live long.
Might have her look at Sneaking or Disguise.
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Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
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Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
Thereby removing it from the "Everybody will take this" category of broken as it currently exists in. Otaku interacted with the Wired Matrix that came before... if they really are an Otaku then they should still have the former equipment they used as Otaku before becoming a Techomancer.
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Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
Well, the Otaku were.... how shall we say this.... the precurser to techno's. Kinda like Homo Erectus to Homo Sapien...
The Otaku still needed datajacks to connect, while techno's evolved a way to wirelessly tap into the marrix.
Of course, this MIGHT have been an Otaku ability too.... but with the old wired matrix, there was no wireless signal to pick up...
They had trodes back before crash 2.0 true enough.
Sadly, with the non-rpg books I read, there was never 100% efficiency.
Can't say one way or the other about the earlier editions.
That would of thrown off anyone, especially otaku.
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Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
Thereby removing it from the "Everybody will take this" category of broken as it currently exists in. Otaku interacted with the Wired Matrix that came before... if they really are an Otaku then they should still have the former equipment they used as Otaku before becoming a Techomancer.
Focused Concentration is still more important. Honestly, how much Fade is a Technomancer taking? You're rarely compiling large sprites on the fly and CFs tend to be "I Win" buttons of one sort or another. It's certainly the next best quality for a Technomancer to grab, but honestly that is saying very little since it was competing for second place with the likes of Hawk eye and Quick Healer.
Otaku to Technomancer isn't as automatic as Overclocker or Perfect timing is for Deckers. Any Technomancer would take an equivilant to Overclocker over O2T in a heartbeat.
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You could be right... I don't play techno cause they seem like one trick ponies who are to MAD to be useful in a lot of situations that a Decker can do with a Gunarm. But every single Techno build on the forums since Data Trails came out has it, which could be a case of Newness. But still has to be something to it when all the builds people have been putting together the past couple weeks has it imo.
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I apologize for bring this up otaku thing I did not intend to derail this thread. Start a new thread on it if you want to discuss it.
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Actually, Marcus, it fits within the theme of the thread.
Being an Otaku was possibly a core facet of the character in question.
If anything I should be the one to apologize about bringing it up.
But, fact of the matter is, the debate on Otaku to Technomancer requiring a datajack or not should of been in data trails.
Or has that been eratta'd by now?
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You used to be able to ground spells through things like active foci, letting an astral mage attack people in the meat world from astral space. Wired reflexes and reaction enhancers used to work together fine without wireless. Mnemonic enhancers used to give you a Karma discount to learning or improving skills. Direct combat spells used to be the low-Drain, go-to spells for a mage. The game universe is subject to change without notice!
Despite its shared history with previous editions, SR5 is a brand new game. If a quality requires a datajack or has any other kind of restrictions, it should be spelled out in the quality (especially because this may very well be a player's first experience with the game - they shouldn't have to own SR3 rulebooks to catch things like this).
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Wired Reflexes & Reaction Enhancers weren't compatible in 4th. It was Move by Wire System that explicitly stated it was compatible with Reaction Enhancers. But it counted anything that affected Reaction as affecting Initiative. So there's a difference between changing how the Augmented Maximum is counted as well as clearly defining Reaction & the Initiative Attribute derived from it as separate & saying that the new system that is wireless totally ignores the history of something that can from the time of the Wired Matrix.
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Classic example of issues with starting Technos.
I mean the character is dead man walking in any fight, has none of the basic social skills, and while she can murder almost anything with a matrix damage track like weasel at rabbit convention, she's not going to be a stunningly useful asset without some more development.
Now that said how to get her involved? Contacts! Her techno friend talk to your Johnson's friend talk who talked to the Johnson so on and so forth.
Once the player comes to understand that not having etiquette is fail, a quick character re-write and the glaring issues can be fixed.
To be fair to the character, she has 7 dice on negotiation, con and etiquette. That's more than most people that do put points in those skills - CHA 8 goes a long way.
Not that putting more points into it is a bad thing, but she certainly doesn't need more to be sociable enough to get jobs.
As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.
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Not that the character can't use some polishing, mind. Focus a bit more on compiling, or upping Sleaze a bit, buying armor, getting some equipment to help shoot, getting some sneak. But it's not an unsalvagable character.
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I once joined a SR game with "seasoned" players and came into it as a Corp Wage Slave that got caught up in run.
The team didn't want to kill me, but I couldn't go back to my former life so they just kinda kept me around because they felt a bit responsible and I was really smart and had academic skills that none of them possessed. At first I would be over-watch for the group observing from a distance and warning them of trouble. As time went on I morphed into their decker after the team confiscated a deck on a run. Point being, you don't have to be a "runner" to be involved in shadowrunning.
You asked "what does this character have to offer a Johnson?". Is it necessary that they get hired by the Johnson? If there are a bunch of other players, perhaps the character isn't part of the team and just gets caught in the middle of the run. Maybe its her hacking skills that end up helping the team, or maybe just a well timed shotgun blast that saves the day. The team ends up seeing some value and is happy to take on someone that just saved their hide.
I love quirky characters and hate this idea that everyone has to have a perfectly defined role on the team.. Rigger, Hacker, Face, etc. In most cases I play games with just a couple players, so the players tend to be able to do many things, and the runs are tailored to be fun for who they are. If they are Sams. there is a lot of combat, if they are mages there is lots of magic...
So maybe that first run just happens to be in a club with a DJ layin down some phat beatz...
All that is not to say this character couldn't use a little "optimization".. You could certainly suggest some tweaks if you think they don't have enough dice in some key skills.
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The Number of Registered Sprites one person can have was CHA in Core and later changed to LOG in the Errata.
Your Players expectation was perhaps to be a "Petnomancer" with an Army of Sprites, that loves to see the (virtual) World Burn, especially with that Fault Sprite.
With WIL 4 and RES 5, Otaku 2 Technomancer is a No-Brainer to get, especially if you plan on compiling/registering Force 6+ Sprites.
If you want, just change the name of the quality. (Hardened Brain?)
Also with a lot of Sprites, you can increase your dice Pools for basically every Matrix Action (takes a lot of Preparation, but possible)
I cannot find any Complex Forms. Did the Player not get any?
AGI 5 is solid for a TM, with perhaps a pair of Smartlink Goggles and a Machine Sprite, he can throw his 10-12 Dice for shooting, which should be okay as a secondary thing.
With at least 1 Point at Sneaking, he will have 6 Dice for it. Get a Chameleon Suite and that guy is good to go for a stealth mission.
This TM isn't the most optimized character I have ever seen, but I don't think it is as bad as you make it sound to be.
Mediocre at Stealthing, Facing and shooting - not bad at Hacking and very good at bricking stuff.
I guess the Player expects a lot of combat. If the enemies use Cyberware, he can harm them pretty well actually (although not deadly) or brick their Weapons.
(Example: Everyone with a pair of Cybereyes can be completely blinded by bricking the eyes, Cyberarms/legs can be rendered useless, Weapons stop to function, Commlinks/Cyberdecks/Drones can be shut off via DataSpike. - And all that from behind the corner.)
He is not the guy that gets the Jobs, but he can be very useful for a Team.
Don't get him a Data Steal job within a Level 6+ Host, he is obviously not going to like it in there. But for everything else I think he is fine.
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Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)
RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
My suggestion is if your table feels like it is required, make it a very old datajack, which hasn't got wireless (or noise reduction bonus), and don't charge essence for it, as a house rule.
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Or just say they used trodes. It really doesn't matter. The point is that PQs rarely come with handicaps like "must include implantation of a piece of gear that lowers your important stat."
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As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.
Technomancers can do fine in combat. Main issue winds up being initiative, but you can reliably get two actions per turn in meat space, and your dice pools can keep up if you want them to.
You're not a samurai or an adept by any means, but TMs can shoot as well as anyone else if they want to.
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Probably the best way to do that is with Automatics and full-auto penalizing defense tests.
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As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.
Technomancers can do fine in combat. Main issue winds up being initiative, but you can reliably get two actions per turn in meat space, and your dice pools can keep up if you want them to.
You're not a samurai or an adept by any means, but TMs can shoot as well as anyone else if they want to.
They can do fine, yes, but what I said is they'll never be stellar at it. That's not just the initiative (but that's a big part of it), but also the significantly lower Agi which you can't boost with 'ware or magic (well, you can, but that comes with it's own drawbacks).
So yes, you can do fine, and you can do your part in combat. But not much more then that.
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;D
I don't really expect a Samurai to be particularly good at hacking so, no worries. Shadowrun....team game.... specialists...
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Wired Reflexes & Reaction Enhancers weren't compatible in 4th. It was Move by Wire System that explicitly stated it was compatible with Reaction Enhancers. But it counted anything that affected Reaction as affecting Initiative. So there's a difference between changing how the Augmented Maximum is counted as well as clearly defining Reaction & the Initiative Attribute derived from it as separate & saying that the new system that is wireless totally ignores the history of something that can from the time of the Wired Matrix.
In base SR4, the rules were contradictory (reaction enhancers saying they were compatible with other initiative boosters, and the other two initiative boosters saying they were not compatible with any other initiative boosters). In SR4A, the combo was explicitly allowed.
I'm not saying that ret-cons are always a horrible thing. They can be jarring, but sometimes they are necessary. My main point was, if a former otaku needs to have a datajack, it really needs to be explicitly brought up in the current rule (I don't have Data Trails, but from other people's comments, it seems that there was no mention of it).
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Found someone with a Matrix 3rd .pdf
Here's the copy and paste:
USING TRODES
Trodes are simply electrode nets that are slipped over a user’s head. Trodes have
numerous contact points that are suctioned onto the user’s head over various nerve
clusters. These contact points read and send electronic impulses to the brain and nervous
system. Trodes come in various styles, from simple, functional nets to discreet
and fashionable hairnets and headbands to flashy, stylized designs; trodes are often
built into wigs and helmets as well.
Trodes are connected to the cyberterminal through a simple
fiberoptic cable. Removing the trodes from someone‘s
head will cut the connection (and may subject the user to
dump shoc:, see p. 227, SR3).
Trodes are commonly used by the Awakened and others
who avoid cybernetic implants.
Disadvantages: Trodes are not as efficient as datajacks in
transmitting data to and from the brain, so they impede the
user’s speed within the Matrix.
In game terms, using trodes reduces a character’s Reaction
in the Matrix by half (round down, to a minimum of I ) . A trode
user receives a maximum Matrix Initiative dice of 2D6.
It also takes a bit of time to adjust trodes for a proper fit
and to calibrate them. Trodes require 3 full Combat Turns to
position on a user’s head.
I knew trodes back then were inefficient, but half the initiative?
And 3 Combat Turns to position?
Anyone reading my posts can figure out I'm more about the
story than about the mechanics.
Overmuch? Maybe, maybe not.
For the house rule I suggested: use the current model (without wireless connection) with either Multidimensional Coprocessor or a module that gives +2 to firewall when using the datajack.
Cost to give it wireless connection with the standard R1 Noise Reduction: 250
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Keep in mind, SR3 is a different animal when it comes to rules and structure.
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Keep in mind, SR3 is a different animal when it comes to rules and structure.
True enough, still sounds like a nightmare when trying to cut IC.
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If you're going back through editions, keep in mind that 4th Edition had nanopaste trodes, which you just smeared on your head like sun block...
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If you're going back through editions, keep in mind that 4th Edition had nanopaste trodes, which you just smeared on your head like sun block...
I know, and this will be the last time I comment on it, then agree to disagree.
If they had trodes of that quality before crash 2.0, I wouldn't of even spoken up.