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Problems with one of my players character

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Glyph

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« Reply #15 on: <06-12-15/0203:47> »
You used to be able to ground spells through things like active foci, letting an astral mage attack people in the meat world from astral space.  Wired reflexes and reaction enhancers used to work together fine without wireless.  Mnemonic enhancers used to give you a Karma discount to learning or improving skills.  Direct combat spells used to be the low-Drain, go-to spells for a mage.  The game universe is subject to change without notice!

Despite its shared history with previous editions, SR5 is a brand new game.  If a quality requires a datajack or has any other kind of restrictions, it should be spelled out in the quality (especially because this may very well be a player's first experience with the game - they shouldn't have to own SR3 rulebooks to catch things like this).

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #16 on: <06-12-15/0337:53> »
Wired Reflexes & Reaction Enhancers weren't compatible in 4th. It was Move by Wire System that explicitly stated it was compatible with Reaction Enhancers. But it counted anything that affected Reaction as affecting Initiative. So there's a difference between changing how the Augmented Maximum is counted as well as clearly defining Reaction & the Initiative Attribute derived from it as separate & saying that the new system that is wireless totally ignores the history of something that can from the time of the Wired Matrix.

Top Dog

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« Reply #17 on: <06-12-15/0427:22> »
Classic example of issues with starting Technos.
I mean the character is dead man walking in any fight, has none of the basic social skills, and while she can murder almost anything with a matrix damage track like weasel at rabbit convention, she's not going to be a stunningly useful asset without some more development.
Now that said how to get her involved? Contacts! Her techno friend talk to your Johnson's friend talk who talked to the Johnson so on and so forth.

Once the player comes to understand that not having etiquette is fail, a quick character re-write and the glaring issues can be fixed.
To be fair to the character, she has 7 dice on negotiation, con and etiquette. That's more than most people that do put points in those skills - CHA 8 goes a long way.

Not that putting more points into it is a bad thing, but she certainly doesn't need more to be sociable enough to get jobs.

As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.

~~

Not that the character can't use some polishing, mind. Focus a bit more on compiling, or upping Sleaze a bit, buying armor, getting some equipment to help shoot, getting some sneak. But it's not an unsalvagable character.

Overbyte

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« Reply #18 on: <06-12-15/0505:23> »
I once joined a SR game with "seasoned" players and came into it as a Corp Wage Slave that got caught up in run.
The team didn't want to kill me, but I couldn't go back to my former life so they just kinda kept me around because they felt a bit responsible and I was really smart and had academic skills that none of them possessed. At first I would be over-watch for the group observing from a distance and warning them of trouble. As time went on I morphed into their decker after the team confiscated a deck on a run. Point being, you don't have to be a "runner" to be involved in shadowrunning.
You asked "what does this character have to offer a Johnson?". Is it necessary that they get hired by the Johnson? If there are a bunch of other players, perhaps the character isn't part of the team and just gets caught in the middle of the run. Maybe its her hacking skills that end up helping the team, or maybe just a well timed shotgun blast that saves the day. The team ends up seeing some value and is happy to take on someone that just saved their hide.
I love quirky characters and hate this idea that everyone has to have a perfectly defined role on the team.. Rigger, Hacker, Face, etc. In most cases I play games with just a couple players, so the players tend to be able to do many things, and the runs are tailored to be fun for who they are. If they are Sams. there is a lot of combat, if they are mages there is lots of magic...
So maybe that first run just happens to be in a club with a DJ layin down some phat beatz...

All that is not to say this character couldn't use a little "optimization".. You could certainly suggest some tweaks if you think they don't have enough dice in some key skills.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

TheDai

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« Reply #19 on: <06-12-15/0614:44> »
The Number of Registered Sprites one person can have was CHA in Core and later changed to LOG in the Errata.

Your Players expectation was perhaps to be a "Petnomancer" with an Army of Sprites, that loves to see the (virtual) World Burn, especially with that Fault Sprite.
With WIL 4 and RES 5, Otaku 2 Technomancer is a No-Brainer to get, especially if you plan on compiling/registering Force 6+ Sprites.
If you want, just change the name of the quality. (Hardened Brain?)

Also with a lot of Sprites, you can increase your dice Pools for basically every Matrix Action (takes a lot of Preparation, but possible)

I cannot find any Complex Forms. Did the Player not get any?
AGI 5 is solid for a TM, with perhaps a pair of Smartlink Goggles and a Machine Sprite, he can throw his 10-12 Dice for shooting, which should be okay as a secondary thing.
With at least 1 Point at Sneaking, he will have 6 Dice for it. Get a Chameleon Suite and that guy is good to go for a stealth mission.

This TM isn't the most optimized character I have ever seen, but I don't think it is as bad as you make it sound to be.
Mediocre at Stealthing, Facing and shooting - not bad at Hacking and very good at bricking stuff.

I guess the Player expects a lot of combat. If the enemies use Cyberware, he can harm them pretty well actually (although not deadly) or brick their Weapons.
(Example: Everyone with a pair of Cybereyes can be completely blinded by bricking the eyes, Cyberarms/legs can be rendered useless, Weapons stop to function, Commlinks/Cyberdecks/Drones can be shut off via DataSpike. - And all that from behind the corner.)

He is not the guy that gets the Jobs, but he can be very useful for a Team.
Don't get him a Data Steal job within a Level 6+ Host, he is obviously not going to like it in there. But for everything else I think he is fine.
One dagger in the night is more valuable, than thousand swords in the morning.

Darzil

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« Reply #20 on: <06-12-15/0718:53> »
Otaku to Technomancer almost would require a datajack. (maybe house rule it)

RAW it is not required. Therefore it is not required. All it does is fuck your Resonance a bit if you require this. Great.
My suggestion is if your table feels like it is required, make it a very old datajack, which hasn't got wireless (or noise reduction bonus), and don't charge essence for it, as a house rule.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #21 on: <06-12-15/0805:46> »
Or just say they used trodes. It really doesn't matter. The point is that PQs rarely come with handicaps like "must include implantation of a piece of gear that lowers your important stat."
Playability > verisimilitude.

Hobbes

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« Reply #22 on: <06-12-15/1125:31> »
As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.

Technomancers can do fine in combat.  Main issue winds up being initiative, but you can reliably get two actions per turn in meat space, and your dice pools can keep up if you want them to. 

You're not a samurai or an adept by any means, but TMs can shoot as well as anyone else if they want to. 

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #23 on: <06-12-15/1439:54> »
Probably the best way to do that is with Automatics and full-auto penalizing defense tests.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Top Dog

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« Reply #24 on: <06-12-15/1526:28> »
As to fighting skills, like you say that's just part of being a technomancer, unfortunately. I'd advise going automatics over longarms with such a pool, so she can at least have some effect, but technomancers aren't going to be stellar in combat, ever. Note that she's still pretty much on par with an average ganger, though, and those don't drop dead as soon as they walk into a fight.

Technomancers can do fine in combat.  Main issue winds up being initiative, but you can reliably get two actions per turn in meat space, and your dice pools can keep up if you want them to. 

You're not a samurai or an adept by any means, but TMs can shoot as well as anyone else if they want to.
They can do fine, yes, but what I said is they'll never be stellar at it. That's not just the initiative (but that's a big part of it), but also the significantly lower Agi which you can't boost with 'ware or magic (well, you can, but that comes with it's own drawbacks).

So yes, you can do fine, and you can do your part in combat. But not much more then that.

Hobbes

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« Reply #25 on: <06-12-15/2029:22> »
 ;D

I don't really expect a Samurai to be particularly good at hacking so, no worries.  Shadowrun....team game.... specialists...

Glyph

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« Reply #26 on: <06-13-15/0605:57> »
Wired Reflexes & Reaction Enhancers weren't compatible in 4th. It was Move by Wire System that explicitly stated it was compatible with Reaction Enhancers. But it counted anything that affected Reaction as affecting Initiative. So there's a difference between changing how the Augmented Maximum is counted as well as clearly defining Reaction & the Initiative Attribute derived from it as separate & saying that the new system that is wireless totally ignores the history of something that can from the time of the Wired Matrix.

In base SR4, the rules were contradictory (reaction enhancers saying they were compatible with other initiative boosters, and the other two initiative boosters saying they were not compatible with any other initiative boosters).  In SR4A, the combo was explicitly allowed.

I'm not saying that ret-cons are always a horrible thing.  They can be jarring, but sometimes they are necessary.  My main point was, if a former otaku needs to have a datajack, it really needs to be explicitly brought up in the current rule (I don't have Data Trails, but from other people's comments, it seems that there was no mention of it).

fseperent

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« Reply #27 on: <06-13-15/1041:20> »
Found someone with a Matrix 3rd .pdf
Here's the copy and paste:
USING TRODES
Trodes are simply electrode nets that are slipped over a user’s head. Trodes have
numerous contact points that are suctioned onto the user’s head over various nerve
clusters. These contact points read and send electronic impulses to the brain and nervous
system. Trodes come in various styles, from simple, functional nets to discreet
and fashionable hairnets and headbands to flashy, stylized designs; trodes are often
built into wigs and helmets as well.
Trodes are connected to the cyberterminal through a simple
fiberoptic cable. Removing the trodes from someone‘s
head will cut the connection (and may subject the user to
dump shoc:, see p. 227, SR3).
Trodes are commonly used by the Awakened and others
who avoid cybernetic implants.
Disadvantages: Trodes are not as efficient as datajacks in
transmitting data to and from the brain, so they impede the
user’s speed within the Matrix.
In game terms, using trodes reduces a character’s Reaction
in the Matrix by half (round down, to a minimum of I ) . A trode
user receives a maximum Matrix Initiative dice of 2D6.
It also takes a bit of time to adjust trodes for a proper fit
and to calibrate them. Trodes require 3 full Combat Turns to
position on a user’s head.
I knew trodes back then were inefficient, but half the initiative?
And 3 Combat Turns to position?

Anyone reading my posts can figure out I'm more about the
story than about the mechanics.
Overmuch? Maybe, maybe not.

For the house rule I suggested: use the current model (without wireless connection) with either Multidimensional Coprocessor or a module that gives +2 to firewall when using the datajack.
Cost to give it wireless connection with the standard R1 Noise Reduction: 250
« Last Edit: <06-13-15/1149:09> by fseperent »

Reaver

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« Reply #28 on: <06-13-15/1147:21> »
Keep in mind, SR3 is a different animal when it comes to rules and structure.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

fseperent

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« Reply #29 on: <06-13-15/1352:45> »
Keep in mind, SR3 is a different animal when it comes to rules and structure.

True enough, still sounds like a nightmare when trying to cut IC.