Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Lodestar on <07-12-15/0236:06>
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Hey, chummers.
I've GMed one session already and was a real good time, but I found interesting the Call a Shot thing.
So the guy Call a Shot to the Head. He gets -4 and rolls. He normaly has 14 dices, 10 now. 10 dice pool is a good pool of dices. He usually hits. An Ares Predator V has 8P damage and AP-1. The Dwarf who got shot in the head has only Body 4 and no helmet (despite his riot armor that goes for 14 (18 total armor). So he's getting 9P mininum damage against a Body of 3 (AP -1). The minimum is almost lethal.
Is that correct? Is it so easy to get a headshot?
I'm not asking for the bad guys' sake. I'm actually worry about the players when I'm doing it the other way around, since they've being jumping from the bushes over the baddies, when the baddies do the same, a player will be sad as his character drops with a roomsweeper shot in the face.
I've being researching and found some rules... like, there is no such thing as a head shot. You just can add +1 to +4 DV for an equally loss in the dice pool, I've also seen (can't remember where) you may forgo 2 from the dice pool for an AP -1, and you can do this as many time as needed.
So... what is it?
-4 Attack to the head?
+4 DV, -4 Attack? (it kinda sounds OP, but it has a limit, so, go figure. I say OP, because you can garantee damage instead of rolling to add the net hits to the damage)
AP -1, -2 Attack? (this sounds more realistic to me, since aiming for a soft spot only negates armor, the "hit on a critical place" thing can be interpreted by the number of success).
I'm atcually liking the idea of using the last two. What do you guys have in mind about this?
For example: I have dice pool 14 and I'm shooting at a spirit, and to overcome its Hardened Armor (is that the name?) I need AP -3. With my Ares Predator V, I already have AP -1, So, I'm losing 4 from the dice pool to get AP -3, and plus I want to get more damage on it, so I choose to lose 2 more from the dice pool. So, I'm rolling 8 dices, for a 10P (from the 8P of the Ares) with AP -3. Does it sound real to you guys?
And, again. Can a dual gun wielder call the shots like that, since it is a free action to call a shot? He doesn't need an Aim Action, right? And, for the dual part, he could only Call a Shot for one of the guns, right?
Edit: I'm trying to understand grenades as well. Pretty harsh. Frags say 18P, AP+5 and -1/m.
What I understood from those numbers (and reading the rules). The people in the blast role +5 for Armor to resist the damage, and I assume for every meter away from the blast, you reduce 1 from the 18P, right? So the blast 18m radius, right? I'm not considering the scatter factor yet, just want to know the blast area. I didn't find a number anywhere in the book.
And, for the scatter. It states a threshold of 3 to get the grenade where you want to be, but later on, in the scatter part, it says you roll 1d6 - hits as meters to success the dead center of the blast, as I get 2 from the 1d6 (scattering 2 meters away in any directiong the 2d6 determines) and hits for 2 (less then 3, so the scatter rolls), since it is 2 - 2, I got it dead center anyways. So, what's up with the 3 threshold. And how the fuck can a chummer miss a rocket for 5d6 meters? like, at maximum, he could miss for a 30 meters? What if he's shooting from 25 meters. Missing for a 30 meters is like shooting to the side and not even straight.
So, I believe I'm missing the point for the grenade thing rules.
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So the guy Call a Shot to the Head. He gets -4 and rolls. He normaly has 14 dices, 10 now. 10 dice pool is a good pool of dices.
You should reread what you can do with a called Shot.
you can either use it (-4 Dice) to raise damage by +2
but the Victim keeps his Armor Dice
OR
You use a Called Shot to hit an Unprotected Part with as many - Dice as the Victim has Armor( -12 with an Armored Jacket f.E.) THAN the Victim has only his Body
-4 Attack to the head?
+4 DV, -4 Attack? (it kinda sounds OP, but it has a limit, so, go figure. I say OP, because you can garantee damage instead of rolling to add the net hits to the damage)
Kinda but don't call it to the Head if its -4 its ....To hurt moore (DV+2)
If it would be ....to an unprotected spot (like a Head) it would be - Armor ;)
With a called Dance
Medicineman
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So the guy Call a Shot to the Head. He gets -4 and rolls. He normaly has 14 dices, 10 now. 10 dice pool is a good pool of dices.
You should reread what you can do with a called Shot.
you can either use it (-4 Dice) to raise damage by +2
but the Victim keeps his Armor Dice
OR
You use a Called Shot to hit an Unprotected Part with as many - Dice as the Victim has Armor( -12 with an Armored Jacket f.E.) THAN the Victim has only his Body
-4 Attack to the head?
+4 DV, -4 Attack? (it kinda sounds OP, but it has a limit, so, go figure. I say OP, because you can garantee damage instead of rolling to add the net hits to the damage)
Kinda but don't call it to the Head if its -4 its ....To hurt moore (DV+2)
If it would be ....to an unprotected spot (like a Head) it would be - Armor ;)
With a called Dance
Medicineman
So he can call a shot to the head with -4 and simply ignore the armor jacket. The target will only roll his Body, then? Pretty lethal for just a -4 in the dice pool.
Again, an Ares Alpha. It has only -1 to get a target at 150m. So I'm calling a shot to the head (-4). At the end, from 150m, I only have -5 to get a naked head in my sight, and that is only for a free action?
Lethal and fast.
Now, if you're aiming straight for a couple of rounds, it would sound more legit.
What you think, pal?
I'm not worry about the baddies, as I said before. It will be a real bummer when Max, the Smart Decker, get a head shot from 100m.
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For the called shot, the shooter has 2 options:
1: -4 dice pool for +2 damage.
That is it. Defender rolls body+armor as normal.
2: take a dice pool modifier equal to the target's armor to IGNORE the armor.
So if the target is in an Armored Jacket (AR 12), the shooter takes -12 to his dice pool. BUT the defender just gets body.
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You should look up Called Shots in SR5 Core pg 195.
The Called Shot your player is doing is called a Called Shot to Vitals. The book explains that all normal shots are considered to be center mass (such as a shot to the chest), and that a -4 Called Shot to Vitals targets a part of the body that is exposed which increases the base DV by +2. Going by the rules in Core, there is no Called Shot to the Head. The shot does not bypass the target's armor. Keep in mind that Called Shots against metahumans and against Vehicles both differ.
If you want more specific called shots, look up the Called Shots in the Run & Gun book
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So he can call a shot to the head with -4 and simply ignore the armor jacket. The target will only roll his Body, then?
NO HE CAN'T !
And I wrote that he can't !!
What you think, pal?
Go and reread the Rules and what I wrote
or reread Reavers Post (He's writing basically the same I did )
Hough!
Medicineman
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So the guy Call a Shot to the Head.
No such thing, at least not in core
Are you perhaps talking about Called Shot Vitals?
He gets -4 and rolls. He normaly has 14 dices, 10 now.
Correct. That is how Called Shot Vitals work.
An Ares Predator V has 8P damage and AP-1. The Dwarf who got shot in the head has only Body 4 and no helmet (despite his riot armor that goes for 14 (18 total armor). So he's getting 9P mininum damage against a Body of 3 (AP -1). The minimum is almost lethal.
Called Shot Vitals modify Damage Value by +2 from 8P to 10P. The Dwarf have a modified armor value of 18-1=17
Since the modified damage value of 10P is less than the modified armor value of 17 the attack will deal Stun rather than Physical.
The Dwarf will resist 10S (+ net hits) with Body + Modified armor value (4+17=21 dice).
Can a dual gun wielder call the shots like that, since it is a free action to call a shot? He doesn't need an Aim Action, right? And, for the dual part, he could only Call a Shot for one of the guns, right?
To fire both guns in one attack action you take the multiple attacks free action. Since you (at least in core) only have 1 free action you can't fire both weapons and use Called Shot (or Run or....) in the same initiative pass.
people in the blast role +5 for Armor to resist the damage
...but only if they have armor to begin with.
I assume for every meter away from the blast, you reduce 1 from the 18P, right? So the blast 18m radius, right?
Right
And, for the scatter. It states a threshold of 3 to get the grenade where you want to be
Right.
If you get less than the threshold the grenade might scatter.
in the scatter part, it says you roll 1d6 - hits as meters to success the dead center of the blast, as I get 2 from the 1d6 (scattering 2 meters away in any directiong the 2d6 determines) and hits for 2 (less then 3, so the scatter rolls), since it is 2 - 2, I got it dead center anyways.
Right.
And if you rolled 6 with 2 hits it would have scattered 4 meters and if you only had one hit when you rolled 2 it would have scattered 1 meter.
So, what's up with the 3 threshold.
If you reach the threshold then you don't risk scatter.
And how the fuck can a chummer miss a rocket for 5d6 meters? like, at maximum, he could miss for a 30 meters? What if he's shooting from 25 meters. Missing for a 30 meters is like shooting to the side and not even straight.
Who in their right mind would use a rocket launcher against a target just 25 meters away?? :)
So he can call a shot to the head with -4 and simply ignore the armor jacket.
He can Call Shot Vitals.
Increase DV by 2 and reduce dice pool by 4.
You cannot ignore armor by reducing dice pool by 4 (at lest not in core).
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The important thing to remember is that this game does not describe strict hit locations and hit-location-dependent armor values (by contrast, see Dark Heresy 1e for a game with hit locations, with different body parts having potentially different armor values). Armor is holistic. A helmet adds armor even if a bullet is described as hitting a person in the chest. This is really for the best to prevent OP headshots and also to reduce complexity. Shooting someone in the head, by the RAW, whether as fluff or as a description of Called Shot Vitals, does not allow them to ignore all armor simply because the target is not wearing a helmet.
The system is not meant to be a reality simulator. And the system is lethal enough as-is without allowing shots to the head to bypass armor. Which, I'll restate, is not remotely the RAW. Even looking in Run & Gun, shots that hit, nick, or pass close to sensitive locations such as the neck, ear, or eye aren't inherently more lethal, they just provide ancillary benefits like inflicting blinded, deafened. The most lethal is probably neck as you start to bleed out, but there's no entry for "braincase." It's also notable that these shots have DV limits. So a shot that passes close to the eye can blind a target but also does a max of 1 damage, presumably for balance.
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You use a Called Shot to hit an Unprotected Part with as many - Dice as the Victim has Armor( -12 with an Armored Jacket f.E.) THAN the Victim has only his Body
That's not a core rule, Medicineman. It's an optional rule from Run & Gun. Unless your GM uses that rule, you can't do that.
Lodestar, like people said, the SR5 called shot rules are an abstraction. Armor always applies, no matter what you're trying to hit (unless you use the abovementioned optional rule). Even with called shots to locations (also from Run & Gun), you still use the full armor rating, no matter the location being used.
You can, as a player, "aim for the head", of course, because this is a roleplaying game. But mechanically, that just means you're doing a Called Shot Vitals (or something similar), which means -4 to attack for +2 DV, with normal armor fully applying. You then do a little thing called "roleplaying" and describe what happens, keeping the player's action in mind for storytelling purposes, without changing the mechanics.
Did your player roll well enough (and the target badly enough) that he does, say, 16 damage, going past Overflow in that one hit? Congratulations, the shot to the head was succesful and killed the target instantly.
Did he roll less and end with, say, 9 damage? You managed to hit the head, dealing a gruesome wound, but didn't actually hit anything vital in there, so the target can still act (although he's not a happy camper).
Did he roll badly, and end with, say, 4 stun damage? You aimed low, hitting the target in a well-protected area instead. Still doing some damage, but nothing too vital.
In all those cases, the process is the same. You roll the attack, apply armor as normal, and apply damage (and related penalties) as normal. The fluff of "shooting to the head" has no mechanical effect. But it may have a roleplaying effect.
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@Medicineman sorry, mate. I was a little sleepy while reading and didn't see it. Thanks, man. I really like the minus dice pool equals armor to ignore it. Can it be partial? Like -6 to dice pool to ignore 6 armor from the Armor Jacket?
@Xenon now it all makes sense. I once read that stun damage in case you don't overcome the armor.
Grenades seem a lot lethal and hard to miss imo.
Again... you are right, who would launch a missile from 25 meters? A crazy chummer.
Now, how would you guys handle a Force 5 Spirit with no ASPD ammo or any sort of magic? Should I assume the whole operation is doomed if a powerful spirit joins the scene?
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Now, how would you guys handle a Force 5 Spirit with no ASPD ammo or any sort of magic? Should I assume the whole operation is doomed if a powerful spirit joins the scene?
You can kill spirits without those things. Good weapons and SnS can do the trick. But expect to get hurt doing so.
A GM should not make a habit of throwing multiple things like this at a team incapable of handling them, though.
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Ok how does this work? guys shooting through a rating 6 barrier sticking his hand around the corner shooting whats the mechanics to shoot the guys hand?
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Now, how would you guys handle a Force 5 Spirit with no ASPD ammo or any sort of magic? Should I assume the whole operation is doomed if a powerful spirit joins the scene?
With a non-AP weapon and regular ammo, an F5 spirit will have 10 armor, around 5 body (depends on type) and 5 autohits from hardened armor. That's equivalent to 30 soak dice. For light pistols, a very hard target - with a base of 7P, you'd need 3 net hits to have even a chance of doing damage, but you'd still do 0 damage if the spirits roll average.
But heavier weapons swing that around quickly. An assault rifle (AP -2) brings it down to 8 armor and 4 autohits, for an equivalent of 25 soak dice - low-level street sam territory. That means that even with 1 net hit you're expected to do around 3 damage after soak. Still nasty for an unprepared group, but not insurmountable. Sniper rifles (including sporting rifles) do better still.
The key is AP. SnS is a good option for any weapon for that reason - a light pistol with SnS will suddenly face 3 autohits, 5 armor and 5 body, which means you're more likely than not to do damage on even a minor hit.
Ok how does this work? guys shooting through a rating 6 barrier sticking his hand around the corner shooting whats the mechanics to shoot the guys hand?
Called Shot to the hand is a -8 penalty, as per Run & Gun. I'd say since it's exposed, there's no further modifiers from cover, assuming it is more or less constantly exposed (if it weaves in and out of cover, it's a different question).
If only using core, you can't hit specific parts of the body, so he's either in cover or not - exposed hand can't be targeted.
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I really like the minus dice pool equals armor to ignore it. Can it be partial? Like -6 to dice pool to ignore 6 armor from the Armor Jacket?
I'd say no. It's probably not that imbalanced, but taking a hard shot to avoid armor entirely is different from can I take a tricky shot to hit a weak bit of armor, which is somehow easier to hit than the places armor isn't.
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@Medicineman sorry, mate. I was a little sleepy while reading and didn't see it. Thanks, man. I really like the minus dice pool equals armor to ignore it. Can it be partial? Like -6 to dice pool to ignore 6 armor from the Armor Jacket?
No Prob ;)
@ Partial Armor ignore
That's no core or optional Rule but you could use it as a Houserule
but to be Honest I most often use Called Shots for more Damage(Vitals)
I never use the called Shots to an unprotected spot
HougH!
Medicineman
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If you want to reduce armor, use the focused burst called shot: Tripled AP of the weapon + APDS ammo will take care of most armor problems.
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@Jack_Spade
I didn't know you could triple your AP with burst fire, or is it "focused burst called shot" something I never heard of?
@Top Dog
Drek. I believe I missed the rules for Hardened Armor. I'll check it later.
And what is a SnS? Sorry for asking.
@at everybody else
Help me interprete this quality:
Sharpshooter
Through focus and vigilance it’s possible to hone a shooting skill to the point of an excess of precision. This honing means that specific techniques are trained to the point of perfection, but in that training, other, more basic maneuvers are skipped over. Characters with this quality are more skilled at making Called Shots, but at the cost of their basic shooting skills. Penalties for Called Shots are decreased by 2, while all other Ranged Attack actions suffer a –1 dice pool penalty.
So, I'm not getting a -2 on attack to get a +2 DV, right? But, when I'm "calling a shot", I get a -1 in anyother ranged attack, right?
I assume I can't call a shot twice, for a -4, +4, right?
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R&G has a rule to shoot someone in the eye (p 113) but no called shot to the "head".
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@Jack_Spade
I didn't know you could triple your AP with burst fire, or is it "focused burst called shot" something I never heard of?
And what is a SnS? Sorry for asking.
1. BULLS-EYE DOUBLE-TAP/BURST, Run & Gun page 116.
Note the AP value of APDS is only added, not multiplied.
2. Stick and Shock, electric ammo.
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So, I'm not getting a -2 on attack to get a +2 DV, right? But, when I'm "calling a shot", I get a -1 in anyother ranged attack, right?
With Sharpshooter, when you declare a Called Shot, you reduce the Called Shot penalty (which is usually -4, and you reduce it to -2; if the penalty is greater, say from one of the Run & Gun Called Shot options (see p. 110-115), then you still just reduce the penalty by 2, e.g. a Called Shot to the eye would be -8 instead of -10).
When you make a ranged attack without declaring it a Called Shot, you get a -1 penalty to the attack roll (i.e., one fewer die is rolled to attack).
I assume I can't call a shot twice, for a -4, +4, right?
Called Shot is a Free Action. You only get one Free Action per pass, unless you have Perfect Time; even then you must use the Free Action with your attack action. I wouldn't interpret that as being able to use two Free Actions to stack the benefits though.
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Holy shit, that bulls-eye double tap burst is insane.
So, with a Ares Desert strike you can get -15 AP. Damn! And for only -4. Worth it.
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-16 even (-4 * 3 from the base weapon, plus -4 from APDS, which you have to use to use this Called Shot).
The Barret 122 can get to -22.
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Holy shit, that bulls-eye double tap burst is insane.
So, with a Ares Desert strike you can get -15 AP. Damn! And for only -4. Worth it.
with two pos Quals
(Sharpshooter and Strife for Perfection) you get ZERO negative Dice (but the other disadvantages that come with the two Pos Quals ;) )
I have one Sniper Char (Violent Violet) that uses this combination with a Ultimax Rainforest Carbine
So, I'm not getting a -2 on attack to get a +2 DV, right? But, when I'm "calling a shot", I get a -1 in anyother ranged attack, right?
that's exactly how it works. with sharpshooter alone:
Whenever You make a Called Shat its only -2 (instead of -4) and you get the (usual) +2 Damage
BUT you get -1 with any other ranged Attack ( Thrown Weapons, Projectile Wapons ,etc)
I assume I can't call a shot twice, for a -4, +4, right?
Chummer, I start to like You a bit, but I don't answer silly Questions ;)
with two positive Dances
Medicineman
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Though a lot of people will not let those two qualities stack, simply because they feel that having no penalty is bad.
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Though a lot of people will not let those two qualities stack, simply because they feel that having no penalty is bad.
[bold] NO Penalty ???[/bold]
Did these People read the Qualities ?
first it's 16 Karma (or 32 Karma ingame)
than you can use Firerms ONLY for called Shots or Area Fire AND all other ranged Attacks are -1
(my Char also uses Bolas, throwing Weapons,projectile Wepons (and Grenade Launchers too if neccesary) )
I think that those GM's that don't allow them are afraid of Players misusing Qualities or Rules (AKA Powergamer or Munchkin)
but its not the Rules ore combination of Rules its the Mindset of a Player that leads to Misuse
He who won't dance with Powergamers or Munchkins
Medicineman
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@Medicineman hey, chummer, I like you too. It wasn't a silly question, I just want to make sure I read right, since I will have to advocate at the table top game.
My friend made a gunslinger with two weapons. We assumed together that he could attack with full dice pool, since he's SSing with both guns and to shoot an SS gun is a simple action. Sure he can't shoot one SS gun twice as an SA would, but two different guns he could, right? But then, he can't call a shot with both weapons which is a shame. He will be pretty upset; he was really enjoying the idea.
In the other hand, there is a Sniper gal in the team. I let her decide her Karma spendings for later, so she is sure what to get (honestly, we kinda trumple a little the chargen, since it sounded a little complicated to create a character as most of the them don't speak a good english nor are enoughly able to read in english). I will tell her about the Sharpshooter + Strife for Perfection.
About the OPness of it. Well, it is OP, but it is what it is. It's what she is built for. She is no decker, she is no magician, she is no face; she is a girl with a gun, and she is good at it.
...and the game is not all about shooting people, there is a plot for the game that goes along with each session of the game. She alone is not that OP.
Still, when just crunching the numbers, damn it is OP.
But, Medicineman, for the range penalties. The imaging scope with Vision Magnification will mitigate by how much that distance? A level?
An Ares Desert Strike, for example, has for short 0-50 and medium (-1) 51-350. With a Vision Magnification at her Imaging Scope, the 51-350 would become short and no penalty would be added, am I right? And 351-800 (the next range window) would be the medium, then.
And, for sure a Goggle with Vision Magnification wouldn't apply to that same Imaging Scope effect (just following common sense).
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There are several situations where you used your free action on something else.
Some examples include, but is not limited to; Ejecting clip or change firing mode of your wireless firearm. Initiative passes you are considered running. Use a gesture or shout out a warning. Initiative passes where you fire at three unaware guards as one attack action by splitting your pool (which is quite powerful opener for a sniper with a semi automatic rifle and a huge pool). Turn one or all your wireless devices wireless off because you are under Matrix attack. Etc.
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[qoute]My friend made a gunslinger with two weapons. We assumed together that he could attack with full dice pool, since he's SSing with both guns and to shoot an SS gun is a simple action. Sure he can't shoot one SS gun twice as an SA would, but two different guns he could, right?
Sadly No
In SR4A you can Shoot the first SS Revolver in your first pass and your Second Revolver in your second simple Action (both with a full Pool) but in SR5 you can make only one Attack (thats an Iron Rule !)
You can shoot both Revolver in the same simple Action ( using Multiattack and splitting Your Pool)
You can even Shoot first one revolver than the other BUT You can attack only once so only your first shot can be an attack....
UNLESS You use the optional Rules from Run and Gun (but be carefull attacking more than once per Pass can be deadly )
HokaHe
Medicineman
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You can't take two simple attack actions (shooting one SS gun and then shoot the other SS gun) in the same action pass.
What you can do is to fire both at the same time as one simple attack action by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks action. Note that this can be done against two different targets - which is pretty cool :)
He who was slipped by
Medicineman
Slipped by Medicineman
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You can't take two simple attack actions (shooting one SS gun and then shoot the other SS gun) in the same action pass.
What you can do is to fire both at the same time as one simple attack action by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks action. Note that this can be done against two different targets - which is pretty cool :)
He who was slipped by
Medicineman
at First
Xenon, why are You imitating my style and why do you Sign your Post with Medicineman ???
Second
Of Course you can shoot twice.
Shooting a Gun is a simple Action you have two simple Actions.
You can ATTAC only Once though ! (thems the rules in the BBB for a more realistic but also more dangerous Style You'd better use the R&G Optional Rules)
What you can do is to fire both at the same time as one simple attack action by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks action.
Thats what I already wrote !
Note that this can be done against two different targets - which is pretty cool :)
I'm not quite sure if thats Possible with two SS Weapons.
Two Automatics with a full Round Burst, or two Autopistols with BF ok, that's mentioned in the Rules, but two SS Revolvers ?
By RAW you have to shoot at least 3 Bullets (as a Burst) at one Target......
With a unique Dance
Medicineman
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@Medicineman don't take for a lazy bastard, but I've being looking the R&G and didn't find such rule. Where is it?
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:)
RG one Page 107 R&G (US Version)
HokaHey
Medicineman
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But, Medicineman, for the range penalties. The imaging scope with Vision Magnification will mitigate by how much that distance? A level?
An Ares Desert Strike, for example, has for short 0-50 and medium (-1) 51-350. With a Vision Magnification at her Imaging Scope, the 51-350 would become short and no penalty would be added, am I right? And 351-800 (the next range window) would be the medium, then.
And, for sure a Goggle with Vision Magnification wouldn't apply to that same Imaging Scope effect (just following common sense).
Vision Magnification shifts the range condition one step back. So yes, medium becomes short and long becomes medium (short, of course, stays short).
How you get that Vision Magnification doesn't matter. You can get it with a scope - scopes have Vision Magnification build-in, by the way, you don't need to add it seperately. But yes, goggles with Vision Magnification apply the same effect.
I'm pretty sure you have to use Take Aim to get the benefits of Vision Magnification, by the way. But I can't find the rules on that right now so I might be mistaken there.
Of Course you can shoot twice.
Shooting a Gun is a simple Action you have two simple Actions.
You can ATTAC only Once though ! (thems the rules in the BBB for a more realistic but also more dangerous Style You'd better use the R&G Optional Rules)
Like you say, you can attack only once. That means you can use only one of those two simple actions for an attack.
I mean, I guess you can use the second one to shoot if the second shot isn't an attack. But what the hell else would you do with a shot?
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@Medicineman, why do you think it's so OP two attacks per Combat Phase? I mean... Can't you shoot twice with a SA gun (I'm not saying the burst fire for a complex action some guns have in SA)?
@Top Dog and again, it must be a free action to apply the effect, right? I mean, when the gear is wireless, which can be hacked.
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I mean, I guess you can use the second one to shoot if the second shot isn't an attack. But what the hell else would you do with a shot?
:)
Do not ask Me !
I did not invent the SR5 Rules
I'm merely stating them
(and pointing out that the SR4A Rules made more sense to me ;) )
@Medicineman, why do you think it's so OP two attacks per Combat Phase?
SR5 Weapons do sig nificantly more Damage than SR4A Weapons ( 150 % mostly)
and If your Char (or the NPCs ) have (f.E.) 3 Inipasses, this would mean, they cann Attack you 6 times , twice as often as by RAW
Even though Armor also raised by about 150 % and You can dodge now with REA & INT (instead of only REA in SR4A) the Damage output of the Guns is more extreme than the protecting Factors of Dodging and Armor.
Imagine an Enemy with an Enfield AS 7 Assault Shotgun in Burst Mode firing Twice at You with 15P ( AP +4 for Shot rounds) and ....3 Successes each . And Your char getting -1 to Dodge because of the Choke....
and in the second Inipass he attacks maybe only once because of Recoil, but twice again in the 3rd pass.
That would be 5 Attacks in 3 Seconds....
But this is just an....educated Guess from me . You should try it at your own Table
Your own experience is far better than a calculation that I made :)
with an educated Dance
Medicineman
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Xenon, why are You imitating my style and why do you Sign your Post with Medicineman ???
I was posting at the same time as you. Noticed that you already answered the question. Didn't want to erase my post. Edited it to enter "Slipped my Medicineman". Edited it again and put a <Enter> before your name to imitate your regular signature because if no other reason than fun. Sorry.
I can go back and edit out the <Enter> if it offend you....
Of Course you can shoot twice.
Shooting a Gun is a simple Action you have two simple Actions.
I wrote two simple attack actions.
You can't attack with both your simple actions....
What you can do is to fire both at the same time as one simple attack action by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks action.
Thats what I already wrote !
That is why I edited my post with "Slipped by Medicineman".
Note that this can be done against two different targets - which is pretty cool :)
I'm not quite sure if thats Possible with two SS Weapons.
Still half a week until i get back to my books but i am pretty sure that the simple action to fire a firearm at p. 165 (or so) say something along the lines of: "if you wield one weapon in each hand then you can attack two different targets by taking the multiple attack free action"?
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Xenon, why are You imitating my style and why do you Sign your Post with Medicineman ???
I was posting at the same time as you. Noticed that you already answered the question. Didn't want to erase my post. Edited it to enter "Slipped my Medicineman". Edited it again and put a <Enter> before your name to imitate your regular signature because if no other reason than fun. Sorry.
I can go back and edit out the <Enter> if it offend you....
I got it. I thought it was funny.
I mean, I guess you can use the second one to shoot if the second shot isn't an attack. But what the hell else would you do with a shot?
:)
Do not ask Me !
I did not invent the SR5 Rules
I'm merely stating them
(and pointing out that the SR4A Rules made more sense to me ;) )
Well okay, yes, as long as (per core) we all agree that you can only attack with the first simple action used to shoot.
SR4 made more sense, but the 2 attacks per round was terrible for actual gameplay, in my experience. Which would be why they changed it.
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With a semi automatic or burst fire weapon you can also still pull the trigger as fast as you can stabilise the weapon between shots by taking a complex attack action.
With a semi automatic weapon this mean you pull the trigger three times (either against one target or by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks free action and attack three different targets with one bullet each) and with a burst fire weapon you pull the trigger twice (either against one target or by splitting the pool and spending a free multiple attacks action and attack two targets with a burst of 3 bullets each)
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Well okay, yes, as long as (per core) we all agree that you can only attack with the first simple action used to shoot.
or the first is a warning shot in the Air.... ?
as long as You Attack only once is a better "agreement" ;)
@ Xenon's Dancing Post
Naaah ,It's OK . I'm not offended i just did'nt understand the Intention of the Post....
I was just wondering what that's all about since I'm not american, I thought this was some kind of ....US Humor copying somebody else's style .That's why I asked :)
with a Gentleman's Dance
Medicineman
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or the first is a warning shot in the Air.... ?
Usually you wait after firing a warning shot, so there's a window of opportunity in which to comply. ::)
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or the first is a warning shot in the Air.... ?
Usually you wait after firing a warning shot, so there's a window of opportunity in which to comply. ::)
Well than You have to find yourself an explenation why You can shoot Twice but You can Attack only Once per Iniphase
..Go ahead , find your own Truth ( is that a correct saying ? )
with an unamerican Dance
Medicineman
looks down to Kincaid's post and LOLs :D
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or the first is a warning shot in the Air.... ?
Usually you wait after firing a warning shot, so there's a window of opportunity in which to comply. ::)
Lone Star disagrees with you.
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Would that generate cumulative recoil? ;)
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If you fire the warning shot second, you don't need to care about recoil.
So everybody wins.
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or the first is a warning shot in the Air.... ?
Usually you wait after firing a warning shot, so there's a window of opportunity in which to comply. ::)
Lone Star disagrees with you.
Aye, they shoot to kill first, and let off a warning shot once they get their story straight.