Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Dead Monky on <09-08-10/1817:54>
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How do you run your games? Do you plan everything out in obsessive detail, thinking up every contingency, and mapping out every NPC? Or do you just say, "Screw it" and just loosely sketch it out ahead of time and improvise the rest as you go along? Do you take much player input (whether before or during a game) or do you even allow any at all? Are you obsessive about the rules or do you run things a bit more fast and loose, allowing players to have their characters do questionable things because it's cool (or because you just don't feel like figuring out all the numbers? For that matter, how obsessive are you about security? Do you make the players worry about every camera and speck of skin they drop or do you just let things slide?
Personally, I'm pretty loose in how I run things. I improvise a lot and run things rather collaboratively with the players, using their input and ideas even in the middle of a game. I'm more interesting in having fun and getting everyone to figure out just how imaginative everyone can get with what their character (and their gear) can do. I let a story go off on a weird, and pointless, tangent just because someone came up with a fun or interesting idea.
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Read my adventures I put up I put some work into them some more than others true but I do try to leave room for the players to do their thing
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Usually I try to prepare myself for as many eventualities as possible. I don't get obsessive about it, but I do make little notes here and there about what could happen if the runners turn left when everything turns right.
In regards to Security, I kinda leave it up to the players. At the beginning of a campaign, I lay out what I consider the 'scope' of how the game might be (Firefly/Serenity type of style at the low end, Mission: Impossible at the high end). If they want to play like Firefly, then security's going to be a bit more lax since the Sec Guards are just ordinary guys making a living. If they wanna play M:I, they better be ready to bring it all on.
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I have a baseline, my players come up with the strangest solutions so i need to adapt. Sometimes I have to be like the Hammer of Plot won't let you. :o
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I pick up an idea, mostly create some cool NPCs for it and then improvise my ass off all night. Works great.
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When I starte Gming I use to plan obsessively to always be prepared but I found I was railroading my team too much. Now I just tend to plan loosely, have a guard template, ideas of what security the team could encouter but otherwise just allow them to run with it. We play a very personal game so I tend to have some random events in place for each of my characters.
XxswitchxX
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I developed my current SR gaming style after years of beating my head against walls when other GMs or players kept getting bogged down in stupid details.
Basically, what I did was took my hometown of Toledo, Ohio and turned it into a 'Plex. Updated the city and 'burbs, created political factions, gangs, places of interests, etc and then created several overall "threads" of stories. The runners would take jobs that would put them on one of those threads and their actions would not only affect their thread, but possibly every other thread in the area. Take out the local Yak boss, well that may be good for the Mafioso who now can go forward with his plan to get his lacky into the Mayor's office and because of that KE gets the new law enforcement contract, and a certain KE officer has it out for someone in our little group...etc etc. Sometimes things have good consequences, sometimes they frag off the wrong person.
For example, the group decided to put in with the local Mafia, which got the attention of the FBI, and long story short, after being played by an FBI double-mole within the family. They are now indebted to the Feds. Do THEIR dirty work, or face federal prison...their choice.
8)
Point is, I try to be fluid,rather than strict with the details.
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I have broad strokes in mind, but I wing it on the details. That said, my games tend to be pretty combat heavy. Not brainless D&D "kick in the door" stuff, mind you, but with a fair number of fight scenes, and with chances for each character to shine (regardless of their favorite type of combat), whenever I can fit them in -- maybe the Yakuza boss is an arrogant martial artist so the close-combat guy will get a chance, maybe the Humanis Policlub guys have a decent shot with a bolt-action set up on some high ground so the team sniper can look cool, maybe the gang boss is a badass Combat Mage that's just itching to spell-duel, mano y mano...
I'm not afraid to reward folks who make brave/awesome choices, but I'm not afraid to kill folks who make stupid ones (and there's a fine line there). I like plans and ambushes as much as the next guy, and sound tactics will be rewarded by an appropriately high body count. Kamikaze charges are likely to BE kamikaze, though, because I let the dice fall where they may.
My one hallmark GM move? If characters get too bogged down in obsessive planning -- so much so that they're really breaking the pace of the game, overthinking things, and making it work instead of fun, folks are losing interest, or whatever? -- I throw a team of commandos at them.
COMMANDO ATTACK hasn't failed me so far.
Invariably, there's someone they've crossed -- maybe that adventure, maybe that plot hook, but maybe something older coming back to haunt them -- that has the resources to send some second-rate merc types after 'em. Sometimes the commandos are obviously tied to a given corporate entity, or a payment trace links them to a bad guy, or whatever (so that they're a plot device delivery system). Sometimes the commandos are just there to wake them up and sling some dice, get the blood pumping, and get them eager for payback. Invariably, the group gets a few cheapie SMGs or a shotgun or two out of it, some urban camo, maybe a few extra grenades (yet more prompting for them to go 'grrr' at the bad guy)...
I always run them as kind of second tier baddies, don't use cover and concentrate fire so much, don't handle them as smoothly and tactically as I would a "real" encounter (don't use and abuse Combat Pool, in previous editions, the way I could)...it's just a little nudge, a little danger, a few boxes of damage here or there (ideally, in SR1-3, a few Light and Moderate wounds all over the place).
COMMANDO ATTACK. The answer to the Shadowrunners-overthinking-it problem.
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I have broad strokes in mind, but I wing it on the details. That said, my games tend to be pretty combat heavy. Not brainless D&D "kick in the door" stuff, mind you, but with a fair number of fight scenes, and with chances for each character to shine (regardless of their favorite type of combat), whenever I can fit them in -- maybe the Yakuza boss is an arrogant martial artist so the close-combat guy will get a chance, maybe the Humanis Policlub guys have a decent shot with a bolt-action set up on some high ground so the team sniper can look cool, maybe the gang boss is a badass Combat Mage that's just itching to spell-duel, mano y mano...
I'm not afraid to reward folks who make brave/awesome choices, but I'm not afraid to kill folks who make stupid ones (and there's a fine line there). I like plans and ambushes as much as the next guy, and sound tactics will be rewarded by an appropriately high body count. Kamikaze charges are likely to BE kamikaze, though, because I let the dice fall where they may.
My one hallmark GM move? If characters get too bogged down in obsessive planning -- so much so that they're really breaking the pace of the game, overthinking things, and making it work instead of fun, folks are losing interest, or whatever? -- I throw a team of commandos at them.
COMMANDO ATTACK hasn't failed me so far.
Invariably, there's someone they've crossed -- maybe that adventure, maybe that plot hook, but maybe something older coming back to haunt them -- that has the resources to send some second-rate merc types after 'em. Sometimes the commandos are obviously tied to a given corporate entity, or a payment trace links them to a bad guy, or whatever (so that they're a plot device delivery system). Sometimes the commandos are just there to wake them up and sling some dice, get the blood pumping, and get them eager for payback. Invariably, the group gets a few cheapie SMGs or a shotgun or two out of it, some urban camo, maybe a few extra grenades (yet more prompting for them to go 'grrr' at the bad guy)...
I always run them as kind of second tier baddies, don't use cover and concentrate fire so much, don't handle them as smoothly and tactically as I would a "real" encounter (don't use and abuse Combat Pool, in previous editions, the way I could)...it's just a little nudge, a little danger, a few boxes of damage here or there (ideally, in SR1-3, a few Light and Moderate wounds all over the place).
COMMANDO ATTACK. The answer to the Shadowrunners-overthinking-it problem.
Prime runners for me. love that. past toons come back angry.
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I tend to work on most details to the main points of an adventure, but leave the specifics open to be done on the fly. Some of my best plot lines in the game I ran every week for 2 years came from when the party just refused a run or took a total left turn from where I expected.
I also had character history I could fall back on when the left turn happened. By the time the game ended a couple of the PCs had made a few enemies that were recurring.
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I pick up an idea, mostly create some cool NPCs for it and then improvise my ass off all night. Works great.
Bingo.
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I pick up an idea, mostly create some cool NPCs for it and then improvise my ass off all night. Works great.
Bingo.
Most of the time, with all the screw ups from my players, the story turns into the "how do we fix this now?" session.
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LOL mystic I've been there. Yeah I've been there a lot.
That and here is the clue to lead you on to the next phase.
Ok you missed that here is a bigger clue........ come on guys pay attention here is another clue
still not getting it I guess it's time to get out the 2X4 and hit them over the head with it maybe then they'll see it
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LOL mystic I've been there. Yeah I've been there a lot.
That and here is the clue to lead you on to the next phase.
Ok you missed that here is a bigger clue........ come on guys pay attention here is another clue
still not getting it I guess it's time to get out the 2X4 and hit them over the head with it maybe then they'll see it
If it doesn't have gear (gold) or Karma (XP) most groups won't notice... ;)
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LOL mystic I've been there. Yeah I've been there a lot.
That and here is the clue to lead you on to the next phase.
Ok you missed that here is a bigger clue........ come on guys pay attention here is another clue
still not getting it I guess it's time to get out the 2X4 and hit them over the head with it maybe then they'll see it
If it doesn't have gear (gold) or Karma (XP) most groups won't notice... ;)
Thats when you leave a shiny engraving on the shiny new toy that just begs the question "solve meeeee" or a trapdoor in the device that something pops out of....
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Eventually they got it, and often the plot became that much better since it took them so long to find it.
I just got complaints sometimes of how were we to know?
Then I'd go through the clues and get a collective OOOHHHHH :)
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This eventually had the side benefit that the players who had played in my game wouldn't leave anything unexplored. The would say nothing in his adventures just happens it means something.
So red herrings became very easy to pull off
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LOL mystic I've been there. Yeah I've been there a lot.
That and here is the clue to lead you on to the next phase.
Ok you missed that here is a bigger clue........ come on guys pay attention here is another clue
still not getting it I guess it's time to get out the 2X4 and hit them over the head with it maybe then they'll see it
And by 2X4 you mean Ares Roadmaster at about 60kph? 8)
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If it came to that. More often it was another ambush or the news trids are running a story about ......
soon followed by "Oh that's right I remember something about that."
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For Shadowrun, I typically just give them an event to react to (such as getting a job) and then stand back and figure out how everyone else in the world reacts to them. Often, I hope that the players will dig up information that will let them plan their own runs and be their own bosses, but that usually happens after they have built up their reps (around the 40 to 50 total karma mark).
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My dad usually just gives us a good whap upside the head with the module whenever we either miss a plot-trigger/puzzle/go sidetracking... XD It works pretty well.
Or the good ol' "ROCKS FALL EVERYBODY DIES." We've gotten that bad before. XD
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Worst part that I've found about GMing Shadowrun is that I am trying to switch gears from 2nd/3rd Edition D&D and gauging NPCS by eye is radically different. So coming up with NPCs takes the most time for me. Storywise, I've worked out a formula that works out to objective+primary threat+secondary threat=game 1, Since PCs are notorious for coming up with the craziest things you could ever imagine I cannot even begin to try to cover all possible contingencies; so it's mostly adapting on the fly.
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Eventually they got it, and often the plot became that much better since it took them so long to find it.
I just got complaints sometimes of how were we to know?
Then I'd go through the clues and get a collective OOOHHHHH :)
Sometimes what's obvious to the GM seems completely irrelevant to the players because they don't have the whole picture as reference. That's why I try to follow the three clue rule (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/three-clue-rule.html) any time something isn't going to be blatantly obvious. For any conclusion you want the PCs to make, include at least three clues. The link goes into more detail about the whys and wherefores, but that's the gist of it.
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I only start with an idea, and possibly a few NPCs, and then I let my players actions decide what happens next. Lets say that the idea is that the players are going to rob a grocery store, then I might have penned out the person who hires them & possibly an important person in the store, but the actual store layout is not set in stone. I'll freeform the building as I go along, add people, features and whatever else might fit. Then, depending on my players actions, events will unfold. Lets say that they break in through the back door, but don't check for an alarm, well that might mean that the police will be there in 10min. Or they might be extra careful, and then I might add a guard dog (and a guard) that they will have to find a clever way of dealing with.
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I used to be such a extensive GM writer, preparing for long hours of gaming, thinking through the most obvious paths and how to counter them, and with extensive sheets for NPCs and contacts and random thug encounters. Pages and pages and pages of material.
Then my Russian pyromaniac combat mage decides to burn an Edge point on a Force 6 Chaotic World area spell on 20 Mitsuhama Red Samurai with a 12-dice pool.
I just closed my notebook and improvised the whole thing after that. And for now, I just write the basics; Johnson's name, briefing location, target location, brief description of the job and one-or-two sheets for the most challenging encounters.
I hate my players, sometimes.
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Eventually they got it, and often the plot became that much better since it took them so long to find it.
I just got complaints sometimes of how were we to know?
Then I'd go through the clues and get a collective OOOHHHHH :)
Sometimes what's obvious to the GM seems completely irrelevant to the players because they don't have the whole picture as reference. That's why I try to follow the three clue rule (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/three-clue-rule.html) any time something isn't going to be blatantly obvious. For any conclusion you want the PCs to make, include at least three clues. The link goes into more detail about the whys and wherefores, but that's the gist of it.
The times I was referring to I was on clue five or six usually, and when I talk about clues I don't mean things like if they examine the ashes of the cigar it will lead them to the right store. It was I told them that this was here. All they had to do was a bit of legwork to follow up on it.
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I basically wing it. I have a general goal in mind, but not much on the way of details. I try to avoid clues to drive the story forward because I have a friend who does that and I get upset with him because I don't get it and he gets upset with me because I can't see what's so obvious to him.
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I hate my players, sometimes.
OH I know that feeling all too well. Worst thing is when no one is paying attention to the game and is instead reading, on a laptop, or using a GameBoy. I end up wanting to pass out meds to quell their ADHD tendencies.
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I hate my players, sometimes.
OH I know that feeling all too well. Worst thing is when no one is paying attention to the game and is instead reading, on a laptop, or using a GameBoy. I end up wanting to pass out meds to quell their ADHD tendencies.
The worst part of the ADHD behaviour is not necessarily reading/playing, is doing absolutely nothing other than make jokes when it's not their turns. Oh, I'd love when they'd complain about Karma penalties.
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Hey, I do that all the time. Of course, I also do other things. :P
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Jokes are fine, so long as they don't completely derail the game by looking up on the 'net where the jokes source is.
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OH I know that feeling all too well. Worst thing is when no one is paying attention to the game and is instead reading, on a laptop, or using a GameBoy. I end up wanting to pass out meds to quell their ADHD tendencies.
I had a player in a D&D group that would wander off to check her email or lolCats or text or some bullshit whenever it wasn't a fight and her character's turn. The other players and I eventually got so fed up with her and her shit that I killed her character with a random runaway cart, gave her character's stuff to the other PCs, and told her to piss off and go home.
EDIT
Fixed things.
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I pointed out to my players that, for this game, I'm trying to break a lot of my habits from running D&D games -- especially when it comes to moving the story along.
I explained to them that this game has a lot of misdirection, incomplete information, or even outright lies. If the group takes the clues they've gathered and drawn the wrong conclusion, I have to actively resist the urge to correct them. It doesn't help that my last group was the sort who could be handed a dozen clues and four hints, and get absolutely nowhere with it. This time, I've got a crowd that's a lot quicker on the uptake.
I have to leave it up to them to tell me where they're going and what they do when they get there, rather than just feeding them the next step in the plotline. (Yes, the old group was that slow.)
I think that, once they get the hang of data-searches and contacts and legwork in general, it'll work out.
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Good GM rule: No internet. No phones.
Unless you've got a baby on the way or you're on call, whoever it is can wait until Ares has their paydata.
Expect this to be enforced at Texicon (http://"http://www.texicon.net")
Also, everyone in the DFW area sign up for my Texicon game. Shameless plug: because free publicity is something you just can't buy.
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I can think of one exception to the "no phones" rule. If everyone at the table has phones with a data connection -- I specify this 'cause my wife and I are the only ones without -- I'll allow the players to use their phones to text each other. It's potentially more efficient than passing notes, and it emulates something the runners themselves can do.
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Good GM rule: No internet. No phones.
Unless you've got a baby on the way or you're on call, whoever it is can wait until Ares has their paydata.
Expect this to be enforced at Texicon (http://"http://www.texicon.net")
Also, everyone in the DFW area sign up for my Texicon game. Shameless plug: because free publicity is something you just can't buy.
You may want to change your link. Adding quotes to the url tag on these forums messes things up. I've found it's best to just say www.texicon.net. Anything else is likely to get the link garbled like this one was.
On a second note. Nice! I didn't realize there were any cons left in DFW. I'll have to check it out and send my group a link.
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I try not to be too hard on players, especially when the jokes start flying. Then again, when I'm not GMing, I tend to be the one slinging the jokes. My old-jewish-Glasswalker werewolf impression from WoD has become legendary. Heck, some of my best gamining memories are some of the jokes. I do eventually settle down, especially when there is "work" to be done, but hey; when you have an opening you HAVE to take it!
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The best part is when someone gets the laughter rolling while in character.
This past Tuesday, we brought in a new player with a hacker. At one point, he told the rigger to get him some Taco Bell before he did a Matrix run, claiming "Can't hack without my taco farts!"
You can imagine the reactions.
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I think the character we've had the most jokes revolve around was an elven Swordmaster my gf's sister ran in EarthDawn. The character would pretty much sleep with anything with two legs and a hole. Eventually it got to the point where we had to a keep a list of the various towns and villages we couldn't return to without running into one of his bastard children or angry ex-lovers. A couple times, the group resorted to dressing him up and "disguising" him with a bag over his head while pretending he was someone else that is hideously scarred and disfigured and very sensitive about it. Much hilarity ensued.
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I think the character we've had the most jokes revolve around was an elven Swordmaster my gf's sister ran in EarthDawn. The character would pretty much sleep with anything with two legs and a hole. Eventually it got to the point where we had to a keep a list of the various towns and villages we couldn't return to without running into one of his bastard children or angry ex-lovers. A couple times, the group resorted to dressing him up and "disguising" him with a bag over his head while pretending he was someone else that is hideously scarred and disfigured and very sensitive about it. Much hilarity ensued.
"The scary part is that, apparently, he considers the hole 'Optional'." :P
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"The scary part is that, apparently, he considers the hole 'Optional'." :P
Pretty much.
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I run a very roleplay, mystery heavy game - think or sink. I have roleplay awards (about 25 of them - like most embarrassing moment inspired by Ugly Betty, A Clockwork Orange - Best revenge), the Cards of Doom (used when the team unbeknown to them were transporting a hair follicle from Satan) and weird stuff.
http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/blog.php/2735-Blond-Gamer-Girl
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Friend of mine used to use what he called "wit points" in his games. One gets them by making the GM laugh so hard or say something so profound that you stop the game...in a positive way. Doing it out of character would often garner 1-3, IN character, double it. He used to run Marvel Superheros and WoD and for every 5 wit points, you could cash in for a experience point.
I was the only one to earn 15 in one shot with my ancient jewish glass-walker werewolf impression during a Werewolf: the Apocalypse game. Had EVERYONE rolling. I've used wit points in my games for a while, before people kept trying too hard to earn them.
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After I have a general idea of the movers and shakers and who is trying to do what I tend to jot down the mission and 3 things that will make it interesting. Everything else is off the cuff. My relationship maps have been known to get super complicated though potentially hitting triple digit npc numbers by the end of a year of playing. (so 40 or so sessions)
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Friend of mine used to use what he called "wit points" in his games. One gets them by making the GM laugh so hard or say something so profound that you stop the game...in a positive way. Doing it out of character would often garner 1-3, IN character, double it. He used to run Marvel Superheros and WoD and for every 5 wit points, you could cash in for a experience point.
I was the only one to earn 15 in one shot with my ancient jewish glass-walker werewolf impression during a Werewolf: the Apocalypse game. Had EVERYONE rolling. I've used wit points in my games for a while, before people kept trying too hard to earn them.
I like this concept. It's similar to the old 'Paralyse the GM with Lauighter' schtick, but more flexible. +1 to you sir.
...and, Oy-Vey! ancient jewish glass-walker werewolf? :o I can imagine that actually:
'Vy, ven I vas younger, ve vent 40-days and nights with no food nor water. But did ve complain? NO! So you schmucks jus' SHADDAP or I'll bite you in half so qvick your head will roll one way while your legs run a mile in the other! Now get me my damn bagel!!'
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Friend of mine used to use what he called "wit points" in his games. One gets them by making the GM laugh so hard or say something so profound that you stop the game...in a positive way. Doing it out of character would often garner 1-3, IN character, double it. He used to run Marvel Superheros and WoD and for every 5 wit points, you could cash in for a experience point.
I was the only one to earn 15 in one shot with my ancient jewish glass-walker werewolf impression during a Werewolf: the Apocalypse game. Had EVERYONE rolling. I've used wit points in my games for a while, before people kept trying too hard to earn them.
Ha! Ha! One of my awards is the South Park amuse the GM award another is the George Carlin best comedic moment
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My worst feature as a game runner is keeping from sidetracking. All my runners are hitting their contacts, hitting their stashes, running down leads, and dealing with their side items. It seems to take on a mini game of its own. In trying to refocus them I gave them notebooks to act as their phones. They could pass notes back and forth, put down their searches, what they want from their contacts, etc. Also if their phones get hacked, they know what information they would lose to the hacker. It helps keep everyone focused at the same time on same task. Most the time.
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My last group had these sessions where they'd huddle up after legwork and cut lose on what they were sweating about the run. Then each would pitch how to run the run. Each would then throw stones on the plan til something got agreed on. This plan would never happen. On the scene they scattered at entry and each went after the thing they were crying about in prep. Never failed. Of course each group is different.
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Because we only game twice a month, I like things more focused plus 6 players can get out of focus quickly. As GM, I'm very focused. To keep player IC, if they are OOC they must hold up their hand and cross their fingers. If OOC chatter goes on for more than a couple of minutes, I ask that they take it into the hall.
If not, OOC chatter is fair game for me to use AND/OR I may throw in a surprise attack. All those paying attention get an initiative, those not are treated like a surprise attack and lose the initiative.
To keep in game, I have in game reading materials that can help with some of the mystery in case GM is otherwise engaged with other players.
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Because we only game twice a month, I like things more focused plus 6 players can get out of focus quickly. As GM, I'm very focused. To keep player IC, if they are OOC they must hold up their hand and cross their fingers. If OOC chatter goes on for more than a couple of minutes, I ask that they take it into the hall.
If not, OOC chatter is fair game for me to use AND/OR I may throw in a surprise attack. All those paying attention get an initiative, those not are treated like a surprise attack and lose the initiative.
To keep in game, I have in game reading materials that can help with some of the mystery in case GM is otherwise engaged with other players.
We're also playing only 1/fortnight, and with the 6 diverse players we have (at full attendance) combat can be VERY slow... and in the complication of having someone Skyping in (*cough* me *cough*)
I like your lost initiative option. I'll have to let the GM know about that one :)
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Because we only game twice a month, I like things more focused plus 6 players can get out of focus quickly. As GM, I'm very focused. To keep player IC, if they are OOC they must hold up their hand and cross their fingers. If OOC chatter goes on for more than a couple of minutes, I ask that they take it into the hall.
If not, OOC chatter is fair game for me to use AND/OR I may throw in a surprise attack. All those paying attention get an initiative, those not are treated like a surprise attack and lose the initiative.
To keep in game, I have in game reading materials that can help with some of the mystery in case GM is otherwise engaged with other players.
Where do you get your in game reading material? Is there a place here on the Forums for GM's tro exchange such things? I know back in the old days when I was a player I used to love seeing the results of my actions turn up in the screamsheets and was thinking about doing the same for my players currently. However, I am not sure I can swing a full page of articles for each game. An article exchange would make it easier for GM's to pickand choose what to include and not have to write as much fiction.
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In game reading material -
I have a couple of cheat sheets that I printed up, shortened combat rules, Matrix news articles (GM made that pertain to game ...think CNN meets National Inquirer), info on NPCs with little Easter Eggs in them where a player mentions something they get a point, printed sheets on mystical creatures they have or might encounter and anything else I can think of. Oh...and I use sheet protectors in case of spilled drinks.
I attached my matrix news articles for anyone to use if they like.
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This whole discussion is very enlightening and ramps down my concern over running SR4. I can from a background of fairly crunchy games where meticulas planning was paramount (incudiing SR1 which I think was more about who I played with). I've now been running lighter games (namely FATE) and am really enjoying the free form/lack of neccessary intense planning involved. I'm glad SR4 can be run successfully in this manner as well, and I plan to do so, as I have found that style best fits my personality.
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It can be run, planning light. However, your players may start planning runs in meticulous detail. For multiple game sessions.
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That's no problem here. I can ad lib fairly well.
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No, seriously. I've had entire game sessions where I simply provided a map and a few known security specs and the players spent the entire session plotting out their moves in intricate detail.
Then they threw the plan out the window when they ran into the first attack drone. And started using high explosives. In elevators.
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I hate that kind of session. It's boooring. Find a way to speed em up, I say.
OTOH, you can't turn around and screw them by not letting them talk some things out OOC during the action. Make em spend some actions sure but don't penalize them for not spending 3 hours planning out every possible contingency.
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Iīm trying to adapt to the GM:ing style from Apocalypse World. Basically: Ask a lot of questions (mainly addressing the characters and not the players), and build the world and game according to their answers. That way, everything that happens will feel relevant to the players and the characters, and I donīt have to use the Plot Bus (itīs ment to take you where the plot is) at all!
If you get a group rolling on this kind of game style, the GM:ing will more or less start handling itself, and you just have to worry about keeping all the oh-so-boring rules in your head...
Now I just have to make my players realize just how much I hate number-crunching. "No, seriously, tell me about your character! Stop reading me the stats! I donīt care how you managed to get that skill that high, Iīm sure you didnīt cheat so just get over it and tell me about her! Where does she live? Nonono! DON`T give me the lifestyle-ranks! Sheeesh..." Theyīre really having trouble...
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No, seriously. I've had entire game sessions where I simply provided a map and a few known security specs and the players spent the entire session plotting out their moves in intricate detail.
Then they threw the plan out the window when they ran into the first attack drone. And started using high explosives. In elevators.
That sounds familiar. (http://shadowrun.colugo.org/newsletter/ready_set_gogh.html)
Three hours of planning culminating in two bullets to the face of a guard in broad daylight before the person who was supposed to be the distraction even got inside the target building.
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Now I just have to make my players realize just how much I hate number-crunching. "No, seriously, tell me about your character! Stop reading me the stats! I donīt care how you managed to get that skill that high, Iīm sure you didnīt cheat so just get over it and tell me about her! Where does she live? Nonono! DON`T give me the lifestyle-ranks! Sheeesh..." Theyīre really having trouble...
Oh, man! I can relate. Nowadays when this comes up, I deflect them to the one player who really cares about that kind of thing. :) As long as everyone's happy, I don't care about the details.
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Now I just have to make my players realize just how much I hate number-crunching. "No, seriously, tell me about your character! Stop reading me the stats! I donīt care how you managed to get that skill that high, Iīm sure you didnīt cheat so just get over it and tell me about her! Where does she live? Nonono! DON`T give me the lifestyle-ranks! Sheeesh..." Theyīre really having trouble...
Oh, man! I can relate. Nowadays when this comes up, I deflect them to the one player who really cares about that kind of thing. :) As long as everyone's happy, I don't care about the details.
There's a balance between stats and character that shifts from player to player.
I like both stats and character to be handed to me so that I can get an idea of what sort of PC and player I'm dealing with:
A) Are they more interested in stats or story? This lets me tailor how I deal with the player, and gives hints as to what they will/won't enjoy at the table, so I can also tailor the campaign
B) Have they taken NQ/PQ's that I need to be aware of (as they mechanically affect NPC attitudes and/or threat levels)
C) Have they got stories with plot points begging to be utilised in-game?
If you read between the lines, Players will give a lot of hints through their PC build...
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Now I just have to make my players realize just how much I hate number-crunching. "No, seriously, tell me about your character! Stop reading me the stats! I donīt care how you managed to get that skill that high, Iīm sure you didnīt cheat so just get over it and tell me about her! Where does she live? Nonono! DON`T give me the lifestyle-ranks! Sheeesh..." Theyīre really having trouble...
Oh, man! I can relate. Nowadays when this comes up, I deflect them to the one player who really cares about that kind of thing. :) As long as everyone's happy, I don't care about the details.
There's a balance between stats and character that shifts from player to player.
I like both stats and character to be handed to me so that I can get an idea of what sort of PC and player I'm dealing with:
A) Are they more interested in stats or story? This lets me tailor how I deal with the player, and gives hints as to what they will/won't enjoy at the table, so I can also tailor the campaign
B) Have they taken NQ/PQ's that I need to be aware of (as they mechanically affect NPC attitudes and/or threat levels)
C) Have they got stories with plot points begging to be utilised in-game?
If you read between the lines, Players will give a lot of hints through their PC build...
Building the characters with the PCs is the best way to get a handle on it. I was teaching my two new players how to do it and it took four hours, but the process of learning their abilities was worth it.
Keeping a photocopy of the PCs sheets and having them gives the GM a good idea of what they can and cannot do. Since everyone has real life, making the PCs write down a couple sentences about their character including: 'why am I here, why am I a shadowrunner, where did I find my crew, and what do I want' help determine plot points in addition to the qualities. I also force players to make up a list of 'traits' about their character.
Our gun bunny is self conscious and somewhat shy and ashamed of his obvious cyberarms; he wears a leather jacket and gloves to cover up his augmentations. That is outside of the mechanical aspect of the game, but provides role-play opportunities.