Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Senko on <12-31-15/2357:51>
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I'm procrastinating to avoid studying for an upcoming exam ;D so I figured I'd throw this out there. If you were invited to a "prime runner" game where to reflect it you were allowed to make a sum to 18 character with the prime runner rules what would you make? Can be as simple as street sam A = , C = or a full listing of skills/spells/qualities/gear/etc. I"m curious what people would make whether you'll hyperspecialize or spread out to cover weaknesses. Rules for builds are . . .
1) Sum to 18.
2) Prime runner rules e.g. more money, higher availability, 35 in positive and negative qualities (the alternate char gen from the core book).
3) Any books allowed (rigger, street grimoire, sail away etc).
4) No house rules allowed.
5) Assume you'll be playing in a group with similar build styles and a GM who'd tailor enemies accordingly i.e. if you build a hyperspecialized char with 0 in a stat as default skills anyone pick up living there and 30+ damage the whole group will do it (or as close as they can allowing for different roles), same with if you consider a 4 skill perfectly acceptable and a 0 is you don't know anything beyond the skill exists so you have a lot of 1-3 skills and only use a heavy pistol for concealment.
There are no right/wrong character concept I'm just curious what people would make with this kind of high powered character.
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Sum to 18 combined w/ Prime runner rules for Cash pretty much makes this a no-brainer.
Mystic Adept &/or Full magician.
4 = Attributes + Skills + Magic
3 = Elf/Ork + Resources
OR
Mystic Adept
4 = Attributes + Skills + Magic + Troll
2 = Resources
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Just cuz you can have Skills A easier with that doesn't make it less of a trap :P
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Not really a no brainer either unless your going pure mechanical advantage. As I said no wrong build but under the current rules I'd never take a mystic adept unless I had no choice as nothing they get makes up for the loss of astral projection.
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Not really a no brainer either unless your going pure mechanical advantage. As I said no wrong build but under the current rules I'd never take a mystic adept unless I had no choice as nothing they get makes up for the loss of astral projection.
Being able to cast spells, summon spirits, use ritual magic, and make use of adepts powers at the same time doesn't make up for not having astral projection? In the words of the minions...
Whaaaaaaa?
If you're the only magic user on the team, maybe. Otherwise, pffft...
I'd probably just be boring and go mundane something with an A in attributes, skills, and resources.
It would if the Power Point karma costs weren't so ludicrously punitive. Three karma would have been plenty for them to cost, but I could grudgingly accept four since that would still not be more than what one gets pre-negative-quality under the base rules.
Hahaha, I go away for a year, and when I come back you're still on about this? Let it go or just house rule it already. Jeez...
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It should not be more than sum to 16. Then priorities are:
A: Metatype
E: Magic
A: Attributes
A: Skills
A: Resources
If you want to build a magic character you have to lower something to get higher priorities to magic. Now a mundane and a magic character are in balance. Well, no they are not aren't because a mage can get easily a power focus but a samurai has not more money. There should also be higher money priorities.
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Still has no negative qualities-so can add nuyen or skills if needed.
About 30k or so does the programs, weapon, armor, gear for this character.
The rest of the 170k- Team player: I'll get the team van/suv so the rigger can spend his money on con rig[3] and his toys.
Meta 4 Gnome (7)
Attributes 4 24
Magic 1 Adept 2
Skills 4 46/10
Resources 4 500000
BOD 3
AGI 6
REA 5
STR 2
WIL 5
LOG 7(9)
INT 5(6)
CHA 2
MR 5
EDG 4
ess 5
Qualities
Perfect Time -5
Quick Config -5
Overclocker -5
Go Big or Go Home -6
Cdeslinger(Hack on the Fly) -10
Skills
Automatics/SMG 6|+2
Cybercombat|Devices 6|+2
Electronic Warfare|Sensors 6|+2
Electronics SG 6
First Aid|Gunshot Wounds 6|+2
Gunnery|Ballistic 6|+2
Hacking|Hosts 6|+2
Gymnastics 3
Sneaking SG 4
Con 1 (-2 Karma)
Etiquette 1 (-2 Karma)
Augmentations
Cerebral Booster [2]
Cerebellum Booster [1]
Alpha GradeSmartlink
Alpha Grade Cyberear[1] w/Damper and 3 Antenae
Alpha Grade Datajack
Adept Powers
Improved Reflexes [3]
Improved Ability(Hacking)[3]
Gear
Microtrónica Azteca 300 Modified Array 8-5-2-1
Multidimensional Coprocessor
170500 Leftover
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Like I said build what you want not what you think is best mechanically. I like astral projection and don't care about the adept powers so mage it is, I'm sure there are other people who aren't interested in magic and will just want to be a decker or street sam.
Sum to 16 means something has to be priority E this is meant to be a ridiculously powerful prime runner and 18 lets you take all B's.
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Like I said build what you want not what you think is best mechanically. I like astral projection and don't care about the adept powers so mage it is, I'm sure there are other people who aren't interested in magic and will just want to be a decker or street sam.
Sum to 16 means something has to be priority E this is meant to be a ridiculously powerful prime runner and 18 lets you take all B's.
Whoops miscounted- guess the rigger buys his own vehicle.
And yes I'd want to play an adept decker.
Just AR as fast as some people VR and when you call me shorty, i'll pull out the MP with the stick-n-shock and show you what's what :P
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under the current rules I'd never take a mystic adept unless I had no choice as nothing they get makes up for the loss of astral projection.
I'll just totally disagree with this and leave it at that. We clearly have very different experiences coloring our valuation of projection.
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That's my point and why I said there's no correct build only what people would like. For me astral projection is worth more than all the adept powers combined, for you its not for gradivus decking outweighs all magic. Different people like different things and that's what I'd like to see here what they'd like not what's mechanically the best option.
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The only thing that would really increase the value of Projection would be if they did another 'retcon' and brought Grounding back in full swing.
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It should not be more than sum to 16.
I agree with this if you want street samurai builds. With sum to 18, any sammie is stuck with a priority of C in magic that is pretty useless to him.
With sum to 18, I would probably (since I like humans) take A in everything else, then C for metatype, effectively maximizing everything.
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Just let Sams take a second Resources for that C.
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Ok make it sum to 16 then.
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Face-mystic adept 24pts
A: Magic
A: Skills
B: Resources
B: Metatype
A: Attributes
Body: 3
Agi: 5
Str: 2
Rea: 5 (9)
Log: 2
Will: 5
Int: 5
Cha: 8
Edge: 5
Magic: 7
Ini: 14+4d6
Dodge: 15
Skills:
Spellcasting: 6 MAG (+2 combat), force, 13
Counterspelling: 6 MAG (+2 combat), 6
Alchemy: 6 MAG (+2 contact), force, 13
Summoning: 6 MAG, force, 13
Binding: 6 MAG, force, 13
Banishing: 6 MAG, force, 13
Negotiation: 6 (+2 bargaining) CHA, social, 14
Disguise: 4, INT, mental, 9
Sneaking: 4, AGI, physical, 9
Palming: 4 AGI, physical, 9
Con: 6 (+2 fast talk) CHA, social, 14
Intimidation: 4 (+2 mental) CHA,social, 12
Automatics: 6 AGI (+2 machine pistols, +1 smart link), accuracy, 11
Perception: 6 INT (+2 Visual, +1 vision enhancement), mental, 11
Assensing: 1 INT (+2 aura Reading), astral, 6
Qualities:
Exceptional attribute 14 (MAG)
Focused concentration 5
Allergy moderate, silver -10
Code of honor (paladin's code) -15
Adept Powers:
7x adept powers
(improved reflexes 3, combat sense 1,heightened concern, astral perception, improved physical rea 1, attribute boost agi 1, thermographic vision)
Spells:
Ball lightning (fetish, combat) INDIRECT, F-3
Chaotic World (fetish, illusion) F-3
Stun bolt DIRECT (combat), F-3
Levitate (manipulation) DIRECT
Improved invisibility (illusion) DIRECT, F-1
Increase body (alchemy, health) DIRECT, F-3
Increase intuition (alchemy, health) TOUCH, F-3
Increase willpower (health)TOUCH, F-3
Increase charisma (health)TOUCH, F-3
Heal (health) TOUCH, F-4
After few phases at most in mild background counts (penalties are missing here) the character's stats looks like below. He is also invisible. The force of spirits is typically 7, and in social situations his charisma is 12. Not bad. I did not give him power focus because of lack of karma.
Body: 3 (7)
Agi: 5 (8)
Str: 2
Rea: 5 (9)
Log: 2
Will: 5
Int: 5 (9)
Cha: 8
Edge: 6
Magic: 7
Ini: 18+4d6
Dodge: 19
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Sum to 16 means something has to be priority E this is meant to be a ridiculously powerful prime runner and 18 lets you take all B's.
How so?
Sum to 16 lets you have 3A, 1B, 1D.
Sum to 15 Would let you be all B's.
Ok make it sum to 16 then.
Anything over Sum-2-14 means you are penalizing the Mundane Humans, since the most they can spend is 4+4+4+2+0.
Well technically, if you wanted to play a Human w/ 8 Edge you would need Sum-2-15.
But I think the point is 14 is MORE than powerful enough when combined with the Prime Runner list too.
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I miscalaculated somewhere there. I'm not saying it isn't powerful I'm saying go nuts and make whatever you like if I design for mundane humans to balance things I am penalizing a magic user as they do have to sacrifice something wheras a mundane doesn't, This way I'm not. You don't want magic just put it E and be mundane. I wanted to make it a design your dream runner with no real limits. If you see what I mean?
Sum to 15 and below means you start doing that to magic users and some mundane builds. 15 lets you take 3 A's, a B and an E wheras 16 means at least a mage can have resources at E which isn't too bad for them with prime runner and the others at A similarly what if you want to play a Troll (or any of their variants/similar high priority metavariants) street sam that also requires a 16 priority spending to get the most out of it with magic at E.
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The whole exercise illustrate the biggest problem with priority and sum-to-ten; it is difficult to scale up or down. A "build your own prime runner" exercise would probably work better with point build and, say, 2,000 Karma.
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I may do that next time then. Just have to decide how much karma I know some people have 3 to 7.5 thousand hmmmm.
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The whole exercise illustrate the biggest problem with priority and sum-to-ten; it is difficult to scale up or down. A "build your own prime runner" exercise would probably work better with point build and, say, 2,000 Karma.
I like the idea of Priority/Sum2Ten, my issue with it has always been with how the different columns & rows don't scale with each other.
For example:
In an "average + optimized" case, for lack of a better term, 4 Attributes & 10 Skill points both equal 70 Karma.
So to me you need those to move by 4 & 10 respectively at all columns.
Cash translates well enough to Karma as well.
So really its all about making Magic & Race try to conform to those 70 point jumps.
That part isn't too hard, but its at least close to workable.
When you compare the different Karma costs for what you get at each of the Column/Row points as they stand now, there are a lot of things that don't match up. Which is why Skills-A looks so good, but is really a trap, lol.
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I miscalaculated somewhere there. I'm not saying it isn't powerful I'm saying go nuts and make whatever you like if I design for mundane humans to balance things I am penalizing a magic user as they do have to sacrifice something wheras a mundane doesn't, This way I'm not. You don't want magic just put it E and be mundane. I wanted to make it a design your dream runner with no real limits. If you see what I mean?
Sum to 15 and below means you start doing that to magic users and some mundane builds. 15 lets you take 3 A's, a B and an E wheras 16 means at least a mage can have resources at E which isn't too bad for them with prime runner and the others at A similarly what if you want to play a Troll (or any of their variants/similar high priority metavariants) street sam that also requires a 16 priority spending to get the most out of it with magic at E.
I'm all for your concept of go nuts, I was just saying that it should be fair for all & not give a Bonus / Penalty for Meta / Awakened.
Traditionally Magic & Tech are a trade off as are Attributes & Meta.
Anything over 14 will basically penalize the Human/Mundane population.
Even with that 14 points it would be hard not to go Magic+Meta just because the extra 4 points really do cover the weaknesses of that combo normally.
Just looking at my last character which was Magic+Meta, he would be able to keep all his strong points...... Meta, Magic, Attributes, and then have 4 points to boost Skills & Tech which were his low end scores.
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Why not let mundanes take extra Resources with the money, or use the Special Attribute points in regular Attributes if Edge is maxed out?
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Sum to 16 means something has to be priority E this is meant to be a ridiculously powerful prime runner and 18 lets you take all B's.
How so?
Sum to 16 lets you have 3A, 1B, 1D.
Sum to 15 Would let you be all B's.
Ok make it sum to 16 then.
Anything over Sum-2-14 means you are penalizing the Mundane Humans, since the most they can spend is 4+4+4+2+0.
Well technically, if you wanted to play a Human w/ 8 Edge you would need Sum-2-15.
But I think the point is 14 is MORE than powerful enough when combined with the Prime Runner list too.
BAH! Stupid Hummies need to be penalized! >:(