Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: FST_Gemstar on <01-07-16/0017:56>
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Awaiting some clarifications, but I thought I'd post this concept. It's an All C priority spider inspired changeling. Short of going for two pairs of shiva arms to get the 8 limb spider effect, the character uses adept powers, 'ware, qualities, and SURGE effects to sneak and fight.
Character will take up some palming, lockpicking, and some social skills after character generation. Might go for a Beasts Way soon too to get some PP discounts.
Biggest drawback is the character does not have much in the way of ranged combat options, as the current MO is to ambush, entangle with spidersilk, or run in really fast to melee, to shock or bite opponents. I may want to up Natural Venom up to deadly, and then fiddle with dropping/changing some of the other surge qualities.
As always, I appreciate ideas for improvement!
Karma Expenditures: 30 Surge, 13 Positive Qualities, -23 Negative Qualities = 5 remaining
Sum-to-Ten
Meta: C, Elf
Attributes: C
Magic; C, Adept
Skills: C
Resources: C
Attributes:
Body:3
Agility: 7 (8 )
Reaction: 3 (5)
Strength: 2
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 5
Logic: 1
Willpower: 3
Edge: 2
Magic: 5
Essence: 5.10
Ini: 10 + 3d6
PQs:
Agile Defender
Jack of All Trades
Mentor Spirit (Wolf)
Quick Healer
(Changling Surge III - 28 karma positive qualities below)
Balance Receptor
Biosonar
Fangs
Natural Venom (Injected, Serious)
Setae
NQs:
Impassive
Lightweight
Weak Immune System
(Changeling NQs - 29)
Critter Spook
Impaired Logic
Impaired Strength
Mood Hair
Nocturnal
Contacts:
Street Doc (2/3)
Antiquities Dealer (2/2)
Skills:
Gymnastics: 5
Perception: 6
Sneaking: 6
Unarmed: 6 (Fangs)
Exotic Ranged Weapon (Spidersilk) 6
Outdoors Group: 2
Knowledge Skills:
English
Security Design: 3
Underworld: 5
Gangs: 3 (Ancients)
== Powers ==
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 2
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Improved Ability (skill) (Exotic Ranged Weapon (Spidersilk)) Rating: 1
Improved Potential (Physical) (Physical)
Improved Reflexes 2
Traceless Walk
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Additional Eye Mount
+Spider Eyes
Magnasense
Muscle Toner Rating 1
Platelet Factories
Spidersilk Gland
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 14
+Gel Packs
+Shock Weave
Bike Racing Helmet 2
+Respirator Rating 6
Chameleon Suit 11
+Gel Packs
+Shock Weave
+Thermal Damping 6
== Weapons ==
Fangs
Shock Gloves
Streetline Special
Survival Knife
== Commlink ==
MCT-3500 (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
+Fake SIN Rating 4 [Fake License 4 (Weapon License), Fake License 4 (Driver's) Micro-Transceiver, Sim Module, Subvocal Mic]
== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Holdouts) x30
Climbing Gear
Contacts Rating 1
+Image Link
Medkit Rating 6
Survival Kit
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
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You're crazy. I dig it, but you are crazy.
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I'd go Elf B Skills D, yeah you lose 2 skillpoints but gain 1 edge.
Drop Gymnastics to Gymnastics|Climbing 3|+2
And Pereception to Perception|Visual 4+2
or
Drop gymnastics to Gymnastics|Climbing 2|+2 and raise it with Karma later
Either get Influence group 1 with the 5 Karma or save it so you can use it with JOAT after your first run.
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Elf B, Magic D? Good call. I was originally trying to keep it all C's that I missed that! Much rather would have Edge to 3 and I can drop gymnastics a bit.
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SURGE is just too damn expensive this edition...
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SURGE is just too damn expensive this edition...
Not really. It gets silly when every runner at the table is a Freak of some sort. Making it expensive means only people who really want it for their concept take it...which is how it ought to be.
As for Spiderbite, great concept! I doubt he'll live long, sadly, but great concept! :)
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SURGE is just too damn expensive this edition...
Not really. It gets silly when every runner at the table is a Freak of some sort. Making it expensive means only people who really want it for their concept take it...which is how it ought to be.
Fluff/rarity taxes are frankly bullshit design and SURGE doesnt give good enough mechanical benefit to justify its cost.
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Fluff/rarity taxes are frankly bullshit design and SURGE doesnt give good enough mechanical benefit to justify its cost.
WhiskeyJack, have I ever told you I love you? I feel like I have at some point.
Fluff/rarity should be enforced by the GM, not the rules. If you enforce it by the rules, you just have said, "This choice is subpar." instead of "approach this choice with care and talk to your GM." That's a incorrect design choice.
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Fluff/rarity taxes are frankly bullshit design and SURGE doesnt give good enough mechanical benefit to justify its cost.
WhiskeyJack, have I ever told you I love you? I feel like I have at some point.
Fluff/rarity should be enforced by the GM, not the rules. If you enforce it by the rules, you just have said, "This choice is subpar." instead of "approach this choice with care and talk to your GM." That's a incorrect design choice.
Generally, I agree. Changelings, though, are an exception because they essentially boil down to "build your own race" which is a lot more freedom than other options have. If you make it too mechanically attractive, every player shows up to the table with one -- see 4e for examples.
We've sidetracked this thread, though -- if you'd like to continue discussing it PM me, or start another thread (or, better, necropost an older thread on the topic.)
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You're crazy. I dig it, but you are crazy.
This is generally how I feel about Gemstar's builds.
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Whiskey/Falar:
I thought Surge III would be tough to pull off, especially not in a karma build, but I honestly didn't find the Surge cost to be all that problematic for this character. I guess I could buy up Logic if I had more starting karma, but I didn't feel I needed too many positive qualities, and the negative qualities aren't too borthersome. The character can't afford to drop to Resources D and there is not much more stuff the character needs to start with (I think). Additionally, I think that the Impaired Attribute NQ makes going Surge III easy... this character could impair Strength, Logic, Charisma, Body,and Willpower without affecting the build - picking 3 would get 24 karma worth of negative Surge qualities. That, and maybe one more flavorful changeling negative quality and you can get the 30ish karma of changeling positive qualities if desired.
Strange/Marcus:
Thanks! ;-) My character posts are mostly just to get the ideas out of my head. Most don't work great as PCs, but I often find some NPC/Contact concepts out of them. I have been thinking a lot about more mixed technological/magical concepts and blended archetypes, and more novel team dynamics that cover basic ground but in less typical ways.This character could have been an ork with eight limbs, a poison bite, and spidersilk and called it a day, I am hoping I made it less crazy than that though. I think of him more of a former go-ganger with some weird quirks. Cool bike, cool jacket, color changing hair, and a charming elven smile that reveal less charming but still intriguing fangs. He's brooding, but not above a good time.
Celendon:
Any ideas to help increase longevity?
I get oddly excited when I think I make an all C priority character workable, but I am not tied to that. Doing the priority switch Gradivus recommends is a good idea. There are definitely optimizations to make with adept powers/mentor spirit. I didn't want to go Raven but it might be most efficient. Shark might be for the +2 unarmed bonus, but I don't know how helpful killing hands is to Spiderbite, as his primary attacks aren't intended to do typical kinetic/strength-modified damage (shock gloves for stun damage and the biting needs to do just any damage for the poison effects--though, if spitting venom is an unarmed attack it may be a better way to go because the venom only requires contact). I don't like going berserk either. I also never thought I would make a character with an Increased Limit power, but this character needs one (base physical limit is 4). I think the fun of a magical cybered changeling is that there are a lot of options to pull from to add to and tweak the character (Surge qualities, adept powers, 'ware, etc).
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Celendon:
Any ideas to help increase longevity?
Well, the real weakness he faces is being very unique. His MO will stand out and be relatively easy to track, especially since you'll be dosing victims with your own DNA laced poison. That's more of a long term issue, though. Short term, he has a relatively low Soak roll for a melee type and a pretty low Physical Limit. He doesn't have a lot of Range Options -- no BF/AF to reduce target Dodge, no Ammo choices to deal with targets who are tough against your normal attacks.
All of that can be managed with skillful play and the right allies, but it's going to be a tough row to hoe.
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True--- Perhaps Spidersilk shooting doesn't need to be maxed and a few ranks in automatics with a BF/FA weapon just in case might be helpful. Can't do so much about the soak - might be able to increase defense/dodge dice though... I am actually working on an Oni version... I think the elf may still be the way to go though, would Spiderbite's name change if he just got cosmetic fangs and his poison only required contact and not damage (spat vs injected ->biting is just for show/poison) ;-)?
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Take the geneware that makes your DNA markers degrade within minutes. I think that still exists in 5th.
I feel like you might get better results out of either ware, PT, or being a burnout...
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Whiskey - I think you're right. In a lot of ways, the "spider" concept is mostly cosmetic, and can be reproduced with 'ware and gear. Though I think that could be part of the concept. Metagenic Agility for an elf/oni and the cool factor poison weapon isn't an awful deal for 30 karma, some lower attribute maxes, and some mood hair. Spiderbite doesn't need implanted spider eyes when an he could have motion sense and could get spider tattoos or has natural spider colorations. Doesn't need Satae when he gecko gloves. Doesn't need real fangs when he could have fake ones but real venom. Maybe because he was fast, had a weird deadly poison, and reactive he got a spider nickname back in gang time and kind of went with it -> making the cooler cosmetic adjustments to match the persona. This is cheaper, less opportunistically costly, and may make more sense than working with the limited options of Surge to make a spiderelf or spiderorc metatype. I still want to make a changeling, but perhaps more streamlined.
Genewipe is the genemod - though it has an Availability of 16F and I can't get that at character generation. Masque might work though.
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Here's an Oni version, though I think I may use what we learned and go back to the elf (sorry in advance for the multiple post). Oni seemed doable because the Fangs were natural, physical limit is easier to raise, Onis are similarly agile to elves, and the skin pigmentation could just be a spider coloration to go with theme. I don't like that the character starts with Edge 1 and I gave up platelet factories, the character is more Agile, higher defense/initiative (13 defense dice, 23 with Agile Defender/ Initiative is 12+4D6), is more likely to get that damage value on a bite attack (more unarmed dice + higher strength), can still shoot a competent spidersilk dose, venom tracking is not going to be a big problem (Masque), and can pull out a Steyr when being spiderlike just isn't cutting it. Went with Shark as a mentor spirit for the unarmed bonus, and perhaps the killing hands could come in handy for biting an enemy resistant to more normal weapons? Also took Improved Reflexes III, as it seemed like a better way to get to physical limit 6 than just the increase limit power.
Lots of Karma Needs post character generation. I'd like Edge at least to 2, a bunch of of 1 skills in the usual basics, and a climbing specialization. Some B&E gear would be nice too. Karma at start: 0 (30 Surge III, 1 nuyen, 2 to buy off surge difference, 13 positive qualities, 4 on metatype, -25 negative qualities).
== Info ==
Street Name: Spiderbite - Oni
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 20/40
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Ork (Oni)
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 6 (45 kg/30 kg)
Memory: 4
Nuyen: 600
== Priorities ==
Metatype: B(3) - Any metatype (Oni)
Attributes: C(2) - 16 Attributes
Special: D(1) - Adept
Skills: C(2) - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: C(2) - 140,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 8 (10)
REA: 4 (7)
STR: 3
CHA: 3
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 3
EDG: 1
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 5.02
Initiative: 9 (12) + 4d6
Rigger Initiative: 12 + 4d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 12 + 4d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 4
Social: 6
Astral: 6
== Active Skills ==
Automatics : 4 [Machine Pistols] Pool: 14 (16)
Exotic Ranged Weapon : 4 [Spidersilk] Pool: 14
Gymnastics : 2 Pool: 12
Perception : 6 Pool: 11
Running : 2 Pool: 5
Sneaking : 6 Pool: 16
Swimming : 2 Pool: 5
Unarmed Combat : 6 [Fangs] Pool: 18 (20)
== Knowledge Skills ==
English
Security Design: 3
Underworld: 5
Gangs: 3 (Dissemblers)
== Qualities ==
Adept
Agile Defender
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Consummate Professional
Fangs
Impaired Attribute (LOG)
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Impaired Attribute (CHA)
Impassive
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Shark)
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Natural Venom (Injected, Deadly)
Prejudiced (Common, Biased) (Elves)
Quick Healer
Striking Skin Pigmentation (Arachnid Pattern)
Weak Immune System
Contacts:
Street Doc (2/3)
Antiquities Dealer (2/2)
== Powers ==
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 2
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Improved Reflexes 3
Killing Hands
Motion Sense
== Lifestyles ==
Squatter 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Masque
Muscle Toner Rating 2 (Used)
Spidersilk Gland (Used)
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Bike Racing Helmet 2
+Respirator Rating 6
Chameleon Suit 11
+Gel Packs
+Thermal Damping 3
== Weapons ==
Fangs
Pool: 18 (20) Accuracy: 6 DV: 4P AP: - RC: 2
Steyr TMP
+Concealable Holster
+Laser Sight
+Spare Clip
Pool: 14 (16) Accuracy: 5 DV: 7P AP: - RC: 2
Survival Knife
Pool: 9 Accuracy: 5 DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 18 Accuracy: 6 DV: 3P AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
MCT-3500 (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
+Fake SIN Rating 4 [Fake License 4 (Concealed Carry Permit), Fake License 4 (Automatic Weapons License), Fake License 4 (Driver's License)]
+Micro-Transceiver
+Sim Module
+Earbuds Rating 1
+Subvocal Mic
== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x60
Climbing Gear
Contacts Rating 1
+Image Link
+Polychromic Lens (to look menacing/spider-ish when needed)
Gecko Tape Gloves
Rapelling Gloves
Survival Kit
== Vehicles ==
Yamaha Growler (Off-Road Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
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Ok... and now an updated elf iteration:
Background:
Spiderbite grew up SINless in the barrens. WIthout much supervision, school, support, or much interest in any of those, he found his way into the local Ancients branch. While not the brightest or biggest, he showed enough cunning and enough ruthlessness to be quickly accepted and ascendant. A gang war eventually left his branch tattered but not lost. it is in this war he picked up his handle, Spiderbite, as he took out a lot of rival gangers with his natural venom. This reputation helped him be a better recruiter, and he played up his namesake to look more fearsome (spidersilk gland, spider eye tattoos, color changing contacts, dental work to make cosmetic spider fangs, etc.). After working to help reestablish its cred, Spiderbite decided he had enough of ganglife and could make a real living as a Shadowrunner. He left the Ancients (though does anyone really leave?) and his hometown, working to build some cred out of the gang world and pick up some work along the way. Now, in a city with a new fake SIN, he was ready to make his name in the Shadows.
Updates:
Poison now is Spat-Serious (Contact vector and DV10 as opposed to Injected-Deadly: Requires Damage and DV 12). However, as a contact vector poison, I believe that it only will need a touch attack to poison someone.I also can hopefully roleplay that the character chooses when he poisons, and doesn't just have poison saliva all the time. So now both melee options (physical: venom and stun: shockhand) are touch attacks that get +2 unarmed and win on a tie. Spidersilk dice pool with an Agility boost will hopefully be enough to get some reliable called shot benefits (disabling weapons, etc). Switched to a Remington Supressor - a little more stealthy for this character can still Burst Fire at least. Had to lose some armor mods in order to keep the Suzuki Mirage (he was a former Ancients member after all), but they can be easily upgraded pretty quickly in play. Defends with 12 dice normally, but with Improved Reflexes 3, will usually have enough initiative to spare a Blocking (18 dice) or Full Defense (22 dice) action. Edge starting at 3 (as opposed to the Oni with 1) might help in the not dying quickly department too.
Physical limit is a little rough. The Oni version with a base boost to strength could get his limit to 6 without Improved Potential, but this character could not, so I had to not only have Improved Reflexes 3 but also Improved Physical Potential to get to that limit. I was able to squeeze in an Agility Boost focus as to not lose other key powers. I went with Raven instead of Shark for mentor spirit again, as the benefits from more unarmed skill are limited by the characters limit, as he is already throwing 18-20 dice on touch attacks. As none of his melee weapons do actual damage, killing hands just doesn't seem worth it either as does the risk of berserking. Traceless Walk will help him in his stealthy progression as will having some con dice.
First karma will be used to get some social and B&E skills to round out his skill sets and enhance his stealthy MO. Starting Karma: 0 (13 PQs, 30 Surge III, 1 to buy off Surge Differences, 4 on nuyen, 2 on bonded foci, -25 on NQs).
== Info ==
Street Name: Spiderbite
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 20/40
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 4
Nuyen: 212
== Priorities ==
Metatype: B(3) - Elf
Attributes: C(2) - 16 Attributes
Special: D(1) - Adept
Skills: C(2) - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: C(2) - 140,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 8 (10)
REA: 3 (6)
STR: 2
CHA: 3
INT: 5
LOG: 1
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
MAG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 5.02
Initiative: 8 (11) + 4d6
Rigger Initiative: 11 + 4d6
Astral Initiative: 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative: 11 + 4d6
Matrix Cold Initiative: 5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative: 5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 4
Social: 6
Astral: 6
== Active Skills ==
Automatics : 4 [Machine Pistols] Pool: 14 (16)
Exotic Ranged Weapon : 4 [Spidersilk] Pool: 14
Gymnastics : 2 Pool: 12
Perception : 6 Pool: 11
Running : 2 Pool: 4
Sneaking : 6 Pool: 16
Swimming : 2 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 6 [Venom] Pool: 16 (18)
== Knowledge Skills ==
English : N Pool: 0
Gangs : 3 [Ancients] Pool: 8 (10)
Security Design : 3 Pool: 8
Underworld : 3 Pool: 8
Zoology : 1 [Spiders] Pool: 6 (8)
== Contacts ==
; Street Doc (2, 2)
; Ancients Recruiter (2, 3)
== Qualities ==
Adept
Agile Defender
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Consummate Professional
Critter Spook
Impaired Attribute (CHA)
Impaired Attribute (LOG)
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Impassive
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Low-Light Vision
Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Natural Venom (Spat, Serious)
Phobia (Uncommon, Mild) (Birds of Prey)
Quick Healer
Weak Immune System
== Powers ==
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 1
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Improved Potential (Physical) 1
Improved Reflexes 3
Motion Sense
Traceless Walk
Voice Control Rating: 1
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Masque
Minor Biosculpting Modification (Spiderfangs)
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Spidersilk Gland
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Bike Racing Armor 8
+Respirator Rating 6
Chameleon Suit 9
== Weapons ==
Remington Suppressor
+Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
+Sound Suppressor
Pool: 14 (16) Accuracy: 6 DV: 7P AP: -1 RC: 2
Shock Gloves
Pool: 16 Accuracy: 6 DV: 8S(e) AP: -5 RC: 2
Survival Knife
Pool: 9 Accuracy: 5 DV: 4P AP: -1 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 16 Accuracy: 6 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
MCT-3500 (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 3, FWL: 3)
+Fake SIN Rating 4 [Fake License 4 (Automatic Weapons License), Fake License 4 (Restricted Bioware License), Fake License 4 (Concealed Carry Permit), Fake License 4 (Driver's License)]
== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x50
Climbing Gear
Contacts Rating 1
+Image Link
+Polychromic Lens
Gecko Tape Gloves
Qi Focus (Bonded Foci, Spider eyes tattoo on base of neck) (Attribute Boost) Rating 1
Rapelling Gloves
Survival Kit
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
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Looks much better than the Oni version.
One thing I would mention: Skill 4 for Running and Swimming is more likely to Glitch than skill 3 or 5. There's a post around here with the math behind that, you can look it up if you're curious. In any case, I'd drop it a rank or raise it a rank.
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One thing I would mention: Skill 4 for Running and Swimming is more likely to Glitch than skill 3 or 5. There's a post around here with the math behind that, you can look it up if you're curious. In any case, I'd drop it a rank or raise it a rank.
I don't think it is. I would be if the rule in SR5 was half the dice, but it's more than half the dice. Maybe half the dice was SR4 ?
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Celendon's math is right. Low dice pools are less likely to glitch with odd dice instead of even. I only really have the skill group there because I needed gymnastics and was out of skill points. I don't expect the character to do much sprinting/swimming so i'm not too worried though.
Darzil: I thought you did glitch if half of dice are 1s? If it is more than half, than having even pools would be better.
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Hmm. Not sure what I said about glitches is true.
http://anydice.com/program/7636
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Darzil: I thought you did glitch if half of dice are 1s? If it is more than half, than having even pools would be better.
So did I, when I started, based on other games, but pg 45, Core, second sentence under Glitches, says "If more than half the dice you rolled show a one, then you’ve got problems."
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Interesting... I have just been going with Chummer's dice roller, which will glitch with exactly half ones... perhaps it is still programmed for fourth edition.