Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: cdkc on <02-23-16/1519:44>
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I am running a Shadowrun game. its mostly a mirror shades game and one player has min maxed his mage to completely shit on anything i can throw at him. whats more he plays his character like a marry sue. the problem is he has a magic rating of 8 with 2 initiation grades. he has the quicken spell and channeling metamagics. this allows him to have a force 8 bound spirit in him raising his physical stats as high as possible and he has an increase attribute willpower spell and an increased reflexes spell quickened. what can i do to put this character into a challenege with it being fair and not killing the rest of the party?
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Have a conversation OOC that his character is disrupting the game and that it is impossible to both provide a reasonable challenge for him without killing the whole party, and for everyone else without him trivializing it.
This is not a problem you can solve IC.
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This is a problem that can be solved by using the tools you have at your disposal and fixing/ tweaking the broken parts of the rules this caster is exploiting.
1). Take care of those Quickened spells (not at all a good idea for a mirrorshades campaign due to their high astral visibility) by putting Mana barriers/ wards at every major entrance and on important rooms. This would be common practice for the 6th world so you should do it anyhow.
If he walks around with Quickened spells running he should garner the attention of every corp-sec wage mage/ cop mage that lays eyes on him.
2). Completely remove channeling/ possession traditions from your game, they are broke and this guy figured it out. We banned them at our table for the same reason.
Do those two things and he will come down to a manageable power level.
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am i able to banish his possessing spirit?
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He will be like a beacon in Astral Space, making it impossible for him to hide. When he is possessed he is dual natured so spirits don't need to materialize to attack him nor do mages need to be in the line of fire to banish the spirit.
How does he treat his spirits? If you have the Street Grimoire you might want to loo into the spirit index(?), might can make it impossible for him to summon spirits if he has a history of mistreating them. Or have a powerful spirit show up to teach him some proper manners (think force 20+. Look up Tutor from SR2 as an example).
Does he has a license for all his spells, summoned spirits and trinkets? If not then he is a fellon and can be charged with Murder 1 as using magic to cause death and mayhem cannot be anything but a deliberate act which is why in the eyes of the law mages are dealt with extremely harshly.
He leaves his astral trail everywhere which makes it a lot easier for investigators to find him, especially with quickened spells active constantly.
Wards, patrolling spirits and layers of it. There is a reason why all windows are polarized. It's so magicians have to enter the buildings to do their evil deeds. That means the Mage has to force his way through every single ward the wage mages have rises which leads to detection.
Have an enemy Mage or spirit attack and dispel the quickened spells. Don't allow edge to be used to cast them in the first place.
Use background count which will eat away at his spells too.
Snipers, poisons and gas. He'll send a rival mage at him who has heard of his ways and wants to challenge him on being the most powerful.
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One of his enemies with a ton of cred pays the rest of his team to figure out a way to take him out. They retire.
Start fresh with a 500bp LIfepath Street level game. Grow a mohawk.
Profit. 8)
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I had a player with 43d of armor in the 4th
it was really game breaking
and one day I said : enough and throw at the party a mage with acid spell and a troll with HMG and explosive bullet
it was an arsh run for them
Being a GM is hard but be confident, they are always way to screw your players ;)
like they said, a astral wall of force one, just enough force for it to break when a spell pass threw will alert a security respond
and after that you throw them a lot and a lot of thing
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First, remember that while possessed, he does NOT have immunity to normal weapons! So bullets hurt.
Do NOT forget the setting cavat: "Geek the mage first!" So he should be target #1 for every drone, gun and spellslinger the team runs up against. Also remember that for every attack a player comes under in an IP, they are -1 to their defense test. So by the time the 6th corp security guard shoots, Mr. Mage is -6 to dodge!
Quickened spells are linked to his astral sig and are VERY visible on the astral. And they can be disrupted from the astral! - no need for the magic security to open themselves up to the Mr. Mage's mundane friends :)
Wards are useful. But they can be defeated through careful proceedures. Corp security with a simple glow wand however, much harder to defeat. (The wand glows when an astral form/construct/awakened aura gets close.
Doors. Simple, simple doors. They break line of sight, Can be locked.- to slow down a team, foil invisibility (doors don't open themselves!), and generally make players go "WTF?!? A DOOR!? Now what???" (Its amazing really)
Some other things to keep in mind:
While gangers and street scum are highly limited in the number of bodies they can commit to combat, Corps do not have this limitation!
A gang may have a few hundred members if its a BIG gang, but they can only commit so many to a single combat just due to their size and resources. Commit too many, and they collapse. (Or get taken over by an other gang)
A Mega Corp, have THOUSANDS of security guards spread all over the sprawl that they can call in to defend a site if things go really bad.... and they have 2 major forms of back-up:
1: Knight Errant. The Corps can choose to call on Knight Errant to help contain and arrest Runners on the property. Often they choose not to, but they CAN. And should if the runners are mowing down anything and everything inside the building. Now they have the Corp inside the building and KE on the outside waiting to arrest them!
2: Military. Megas can have some serious firepower. But even they have limitations on what they can do in a city, especially if their arsenal can damage stuff beyond their property line.... but, if the Runners are throwing around military level weapons and spirits, then the Corp/KE MAY just place a call to the military about heavily armed 'terrorists' at work..... and then the REAL fun begins!
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Without masking he is lit up like Christmas, New Years, and the 4th of July all rolled up into one. There are many dual natured critters who take interest in stuff like that.
I would have a conversation with them about toning it down and perhaps making a new character with the same resources they have on their current one. Explain the type of game you are trying to run and how the character in question is disruptive.
If all else fails FAB III grenades or areas covered in the stuff will shut the character down for good.
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I would carefully read the relevant sections in the magic rules. I can't quite put my finger on it, but this build seems a bit dodgy. Be sure to watch him make all of his summoning, binding, and Drain tests, and don't assume he can automatically get a lot of successes because he is doing something during downtime. For enemies, have them use visual cover more and not clump together, and add a few extra mooks. Play up how conspicuous someone channeling a high force spirit and having quickened spells is, and (as others have mentioned) wards are fairly common.
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How do the other players feel about this?
If they don't have a problem with the situation then it's probably better to leave it be. So there's a brick wall mage on the team - both the team and the fixer can make use of that.
If they're not happy with the situation then you collectively need to do something about it. It could come down to playstyle differences, system familiarity, or just characters with varying karma/cash totals. Figure that out before you try to apply solutions or you may end up applying the wrong one.
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I am running a Shadowrun game. its mostly a mirror shades game and one player has min maxed his mage to completely shit on anything i can throw at him. whats more he plays his character like a marry sue. the problem is he has a magic rating of 8 with 2 initiation grades. he has the quicken spell and channeling metamagics. this allows him to have a force 8 bound spirit in him raising his physical stats as high as possible and he has an increase attribute willpower spell and an increased reflexes spell quickened. what can i do to put this character into a challenege with it being fair and not killing the rest of the party?
First, make sure you're having him roll all those drain rolls, instead of handwaving. Second, I agree that the build seems... suspicious at best. Have a long conversation with the player about why he shouldn't try and break the game and ruin things for everyone else.
As for challenges:
Mana ebbs/voids, or high background count areas - A group of gangers isn't going to be much threat to the rest of the party, even in a F6-7 background count.
Wards - Either you set off the ward, and call down all hell on the group, you lose your spells/spirit, or you can't get through.
Harrassment - Every corpsec or Knight with the sight (or a glowand) is going to see the mage light up like a Christmas tree on the astral. Most 'decent' places, mages have to be licensed. And some places just plain won't allow them in. "Papers, now!" gets old after a while.
Targeted - If he's starting to make a name for himself, especially as a mary sue type, then someone somewhere is looking to take him down a peg, either to claim the top spot, or to humble him. (Or maybe they have friends he hurt on a run.)
GEEK THE MAGE FIRST! - Sniper in a nest overlooking a public area for a classic double-cross by Mr. J. And he's kindly given the sniper profiles of the team, so the sniper starts with the mage. This is a really great one to do if they've hurt Aztechnology in the recent past.
FAB IIIb - Otherwise known as 'that drek that eats magic'.
Renfield - Have someone spike the mage's drink with this, get them addicted, and then have a vamp string them along.
Hacker - You know the urban legend of the hacker that gets pissed at someone, and then goes about doing everything they can to make their life hell? It isn't a legend. Until the hacker is found or placated, the mage is going to find himself on terror watch lists, he'll be involved with child pornography rings, every murder is going to have him as a 'person of interest', and you wouldn't believe all the spam calls he's getting, at all time of day and night, in all languages. Oh, and he catches every red light, his train is always late, the food is always burnt or undercooked, the fridge got bricked, the power bill somehow shot up to 10,000 nuyen a month, and...
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Step 1: Summon Cthulhu
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!
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Nah, just a proper dragon will do. They have even higher stats, can summon bigger spirits and quicken/anchor higher force and more exotic spells.
Or Thor Shot, but that is just ridiculous
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Nah, just a proper dragon will do. They have even higher stats, can summon bigger spirits and quicken/anchor higher force and more exotic spells.
Or Thor Shot, but that is just ridiculous
Thor shot?
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Nah, just a proper dragon will do. They have even higher stats, can summon bigger spirits and quicken/anchor higher force and more exotic spells.
Or Thor Shot, but that is just ridiculous
Thor shot?
Long, pointed steel tube, dropped from high earth orbit.
Hits with the power of a multi-kiloton nuke. No messy radiation to worry about.... just pure kinetic mayhem.
(Think: Asteroid hitting the earth.)
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Wow. That sounds like a fun way to kill a mystic adept... wonder why thats not a weapon in real life.
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Who says it isn't? There are so many objects in orbit that there's a chance some of them might just be ...
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Wow. That sounds like a fun way to kill a mystic adept... wonder why thats not a weapon in real life.
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The things people DO NOT know, frighten me almost as much as what they know.
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Honestly? Only the UN treaty ban on space born weapons.
Reagan proposed this with the Star Wars Program back in the 80s during the Cold War with Russia.... but THIS idea got buried in the media under stories of "KILLER LAZORS IN SPACE TO FRY YOUR BRAIN!!!" and other drivel....
The technology is simple. It's getting it into space and set up that cost money. The figure I heard (but can't confirm -hopefully someone with better google-fu can) is that for each kilogram of material you launch into space, it costs $10,000. (fuel, labour, vessel, etc). So, while a 200kg steel rod is cheap on earth. getting that into space (and JUST into space) is $2,000,000! And now you have to get all the other crap up there too (like the computer, the launcher, the holder, etc)
If you believe the Conspiracy Crowds, there already ARE Thors, Nukes, Bio warheads, and Chemical weapons in space.... All waiting for their Evil overlords to push the button. (Who that is, depends on the Nut talking)....
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Why is it not a weapon, well you will have to invest the energy to bring the rod up there which is the same as the energy of the impact.
Multiple tons of tungsten dont teleport off the earth.
And it could legally be done, just in case ones are wondering.
i would also talk to the player and then "promote" the mage ingame. He is good but without masking a liability to secrecy to put it mildly. Have someone powerful notice him -not hard- and have him be the target of extraction runs or as he is not embeded in some corp, just use a fake arrest.
Why always geek such a potential -braincleaned- asset? Such a waste....
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Hm...
that gives me a nice idea. I need:
- A mage with levitation
- A very good optical telescope
- A mechanic with engineering aero skills and a spare drone
- A 200kg steel bolt
Step 0: Wait for a clear day
Step 1: Give the steel bolt a drone controlled tail plane
Step 2: Have the mage levitate the assembly up to the limit of visibility using the optical telescope
Step 3: Let it drop, guided by the drone from a few kilometers up down to earth
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Nah, just a proper dragon will do. They have even higher stats, can summon bigger spirits and quicken/anchor higher force and more exotic spells.
Or Thor Shot, but that is just ridiculous
Thor shot?
A.K.A "orbital strike." It's a kinetic kill weapon launched from a satellite in orbit, towards some poor schmuck on the ground (including everything around him for a good distance). ;D
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Hm...
that gives me a nice idea. I need:
- A mage with levitation
- A very good optical telescope
- A mechanic with engineering aero skills and a spare drone
- A 200kg steel bolt
Step 0: Wait for a clear day
Step 1: Give the steel bolt a drone controlled tail plane
Step 2: Have the mage levitate the assembly up to the limit of visibility using the optical telescope
Step 3: Let it drop, guided by the drone from a few kilometers up down to earth
don't even have to be that far up... Every object has a terminal velocity at which just can't fall faster. there is a Formulae for it based on the mass, surface area, and the force of gravity. Figure that out, fly to that height, and it's amazingly low for some objects.... (the human body is the only one I know, and that's apparently 200m.... Or at least that is the number they drill in our high angle fall arrest classes.... not that it matters, most lethal fall happen in the 5 to 8m range.)
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The technology is simple. It's getting it into space and set up that cost money. The figure I heard (but can't confirm -hopefully someone with better google-fu can) is that for each kilogram of material you launch into space, it costs $10,000. (fuel, labour, vessel, etc). So, while a 200kg steel rod is cheap on earth. getting that into space (and JUST into space) is $2,000,000! And now you have to get all the other crap up there too (like the computer, the launcher, the holder, etc)
Yeah, space-based 'rods from god' aren't too practical with current tech. Not until you're able to start mining asteroids (or at least the moon). The choke point is getting it out of Earth's gravity to begin with. So unless you get better lift technology, or make it in space to begin with, or both, the weapon isn't practical. Not when a stealth bomber could do the same job dropping a precision kinetic warhead from above terminal velocity altitude for less (and can be outfitted for other missions, if need be).
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don't even have to be that far up... Every object has a terminal velocity at which just can't fall faster. there is a Formulae for it based on the mass, surface area, and the force of gravity. Figure that out, fly to that height, and it's amazingly low for some objects.... (the human body is the only one I know, and that's apparently 200m.... Or at least that is the number they drill in our high angle fall arrest classes.... not that it matters, most lethal fall happen in the 5 to 8m range.)
Terminal velocity varies quite a bit if you use aerodynamic shapes and especially dense objects.
Of course, considering that there is the totally borked chart on movement speeds and the spirit movement power, you only need a flyspy and a spirit to create a missile with relativistic speeds, although you probably should make this a remote service... (http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/)
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Inside the atmosphere, a fly spy would be reduced to energy from the friction of air long before it reached those speeds, though. Now, outside the atmosphere, that's a whole different ballgame.
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Not just friction - fusion as the helpful XKCD text explains.
The important thing is that the momentum is conserved which leads to some very serious consequences... ;D
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Assuming, of course, that the power remains in effect after the drone is destroyed. With the target of the spell/power destroyed, the magic would end, IMO, unless it says differently.
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A very nice security set-up for a mage who is, from what you tell, constantly lighting up the astral like there is no tomorrow.
-a glo-wand (has been mentioned before, this is a stick with some glo-moss that lights up if an astral thing passes close by) in a closed box near a choke point in the building, or near the ultra-secure location the runners need to go. The box holds for instance the fire-fighting equipment that has to be present in every company, so most runners will ignore it. Next to the glo-wand is a light sensor coupled (wired of course) to the security system, alerting security if someone dual-natured passes by. Security is trained to have a look at the camera that's also at that spot and all spirits summoned by the security mage are told not to go near those boxes.
Another option is to look at his negative qualities and use those (there is no way you make a character like that without taking some negative qualities). As GM myself (not in shadowrun so far, but the principle holds) I know that no matter what the players create, there are always ways to play with it.
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So here is your next run for this guy
An elven shaman is completing research on F12 power foci. He has been using summoned spirits to aid his research (this is also a subtle warning to the player)
Mission is to retrieve the plans as well as material related.
After making getting to the proper location inside the corporate building, The player has to get by the lodge's warding. Very challenging with all those quickened spells on.
Second challenge is the shaman (amply warned by the attacks on his lodge most likely) with 7 x F8 bound spirits
Now given the apparent arrogance of the player, he'll step right up to the plate without thinking this one through. If he doesn't take down the spirits before engaging with the shaman this is what the shaman does
1. edge for initiative
2. simple action: help me cast spell
3. simple action: quick cast Y manabolts@F1 with edge. Ideally Y would equal the players edge score but is capped by the shamans edge score. We'll call it 2 for now.
4. player has to defend against 2 manabolts with around 30 dice each with edge removing the limit. Since he's possessed, he has to use the weaker of his mental attributes. Probably going to have to burn edge to survive this one.
And they succeed you have a F10 power foci ready to go. So much karma needed to bind it. Then boat loads more to use it without rolling for addiction.
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How do the other players feel about this?
If they don't have a problem with the situation then it's probably better to leave it be. So there's a brick wall mage on the team - both the team and the fixer can make use of that.
If they're not happy with the situation then you collectively need to do something about it. It could come down to playstyle differences, system familiarity, or just characters with varying karma/cash totals. Figure that out before you try to apply solutions or you may end up applying the wrong one.
Important to note that the GM is also a player and the GM deserves to have fun with the game they are running. When I've run games and stopped enjoying them it's nothing more than a chore and a job I'm not getting paid to do and that's not how I want to spend my free time.
But remember the GM always wins if he wants to and has infinite resources unlike the players. Which is why solving the issue IC doesn't work. Thor Shotting this guy does nothing but making the GM himself look like an asshole. Which is again why flat out killing a problem player is heavy handed and likely to result in OOC backlash especially if the other players had no issues. And it's really passive-aggressive to boot.
It's cute and maybe a little cathartic to suggest Thor shotting this character or have the player show up to game and be told his character was disappeared by a mega during downtime but it's also frankly just really immature and a poor way to resolve interpersonal conflict. the underlying problem will likely remain when the player makes a new character that is more powerful than the rest of the group. Or you alienate the player because they feel punished and they leave all because you couldn't say "this is affecting my ability to enjoy running this game so can we come to some agreements/house rules."
If it's really a problem for you the only long term solution is to be an adult and have a conversation with the player.
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Agreed whiskey.
(Now where IS that bottle....)