Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: belaran on <03-09-16/1243:34>
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Hi,
In the core rulebook, I could not find a wireless bonus associated with a control rig. Is there one ? And if not what would be the point for a rigger to leave the wireless on ?
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To be able to control drones wirelessly?
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It has a datajack.
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It has a datajack.
It functions like a datajack. It is not "a datajack" and hence does not inherit the wireless bonus of a datajack (that being the Rating 1 Noise Reduction).
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this!
It would be rather hard for most riggers to jump into a drone flying around with a cable running between it and the rigger....
To be able to control drones wirelessly?
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It has a datajack.
It functions like a datajack. It is not "a datajack" and hence does not inherit the wireless bonus of a datajack (that being the Rating 1 Noise Reduction).
That's your interpretation.
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I can see it going both ways.
It doesn't SAY you have the wireless bonus.
But 5E is notorious for not repeating itself.
So saying "its like getting a free Datajack" would imply all the same functions of said Datajack
So to me, I'd say it includes the wireless bonus.
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Personally, it doesn't matter to me which way a GM calls this. I lean toward it can get the noise reduction but not so heavily that I say its the only interpretation.
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Readers like you guys, are the reason why they had to duplicate effort between the Core book and Data Trails.
Core pg 258, Technomancer Echo: Mind over Machine
You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig. You may take this echo up to two additional times (for a total of three), with the effective control rig rating increasing by 1 each time you take it.
Data Trails pg 59, MMRI
Known as the Man-Machine Resonance Interface, this echo subtly manipulates the Resonance coming off the technomancer, allowing them to better jump into drones and rigger-modified devices. This provides the same effects as a control rig (p. 452, SR5), without the free datajack and datacable. This can be taken up to three times, each increasing the effective rating of the control rig by one.
When people like you guys read "the benefit of a control rig" they started arguing that it also meant your flesh and blood Technomancer suddenly sprouts a datacable out their ass or something. And they made such a stink (pun intended) that the writers felt compelled to come back and say "no, you don't grow a cable."
Core pg 452, Control Rig
It has a built-in sim module, so you can use it for DNI with other devices. It also comes with a universal data connector and about a meter of retractable cable (it’s like getting a free datajack).
Nowhere in there does it even remotely imply that IT IS a datajack. It just says that it comes with the same accessories as the datajack.
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Known as the Man-Machine Resonance Interface, this echo subtly manipulates the Resonance coming off the technomancer, allowing them to better jump into drones and rigger-modified devices. This provides the same effects as a control rig (p. 452, SR5), without the free datajack and datacable. This can be taken up to three times, each increasing the effective rating of the control rig by one.
The bold part indicates an actual control rig versus the echo has a free datajack and cable.
It's plain English.
I don't believe either of us said you get a datajack with the echo- the Technomancers have to get skinlink after all.
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Mind over Machine from the Core book, and MMRI from Data Trails, do the exact same things. The difference being that MMRI explicitly states it does not come with a datacable. The reason for which, was b/c everybody kept asking about whether MoM from the Core was supposed to, since it gives "the benefits of a control rig".
In that same regard, when you guys are seeing "it's kinda like a free datajack", you're reading WAY into that and coming out with the notion that you get the datajack Wireless bonus.
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OK, so to sum up : Control Rig 1 gives you the same (wireless) bonus as a datajack, but as the rigger character is just a "driver" (meaning he always physically jumps in the vehicule and has no RCC) he does not actually needs this bonus.
So, unless I missed something, there is no reason for the character to be running his cyberware "wireless" (he just have a control rig, nothing else).
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As a rigger you can also jump into a drone that you control remotely - in that case you need wireless and noise reduction
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Yes, but again he is more of a driver (control rig, no RCC, no drone), so I don't see any needs for noise reduction (he is inside his vehicule when he uses his control rig).
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A car is just a more robust drone ;)
Controlling your car from the safety of your base might be relevant at times.
The wireless bonus would therefore be: Not getting shot in the meat
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OK, so that is interesting. I assumed that to remote control his drive, he would need a RCC, but a wireless enabled control rig, using the "free datajack" allows to do it - with a noise reduction of one... Cool :)
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The RCC is for giving multiple drones the same command with a single action and sharing autosofts between multiple same-type drones.
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Yep, I realized that now. Cool, because I allowed him to remote-start his chopper a couple of sessions ago, and then thought he could not, but turns out I was right !
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OK, follow up question on this. As I have concluded that the PC has no real good reason to leave his control rig wirless "on" (except for remoting driving his chopper), here come the next question: can disable the wireless on the chopper itself ?
On one hand, one could say "no wireless, no VR", but is it really true ? If the rules says somewhere "any vehicule has to be wirless 'on' at anytime", I'm good with it, I just don't want to cheat the PC here.
And, assuming that shutting down the wireless on the chopper is an option, I would guess this would impairs the sensors array right ? (Can't check the rulebook about that right now)
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You can turn wireless off for all vehicles.
But expect that a few alerts will go off at the sky guide host if you do that with a heli.
The sensors are not impaired by that - neither is the (auto-)pilot.
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OK, but what is the downside of switch off the wireless ? If there is no upside, why would anyone run is vehicule "on" (except for norms wanting to use the autogrid) ?
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Well, for one thing you get a lot less attention from law enforcement if you sent your position data and flight plan - also it stops other vehicles crashing into you
I generally see that as a plus. ;)
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.... but for a chopper, none of those applies ;) - well a radar would see an echo and no icon, but in this case, as the chopper has stealth mods added, not even sure it would.
(but granted, i see the value for groundcraft)
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It's not a chopper; it's a helo!
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Well technically it's a VTOL, but for the intent of discussion I think we can approximate it to a chopper :)
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Aircraft "radar" rely on reading the transponder details being sent out by other aircraft, they are not the old-fashioned beams of radio waves being transmitted and bounced back when they hit a target.
If your Helo is flying without any wireless I would guess that the transponder is off as is the "radar".
You're risking collisions with other aircraft, drones, and if you are picked up on a true military radar with no accompanying transponder information then I can see things getting very exciting as you play missile vs helo.
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Granted, flying wireless may make invisible to civilian air control, but could turn you immediatly for military (nation or megacorp)
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Vehicles still come with their own sensor suites. So they will be able to detect other vehicles, even if they have their wireless disabled. The car in front of you isn't broadcasting but you can still tell there's a car in front of you.
However, even in modern day, cops will pull you over if you're driving in the dark without headlights. I could imagine that especially for police, that wireless on your car is probably sending out license, registration, insurance, current speed, approximate tire wear, last oil change, and favorite radio station. When they see you drive by with your wireless completely disabled to the point if they query your vehicle in particular they still don't get a response, it would be akin to driving without a license plate and with the headlights turned off. As much as you're hoping not to be noticed, you're actually sticking out like a sore thumb.
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Unlikely, Marcus, because a) cops couldn't afford to spend the time it takes to pull over every joker who runs silently, and b) because throwbacks are still a thing.
If it has no wireless functionality, it has no GridGuide and no capability to broadcast any of the things you mentioned.
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I'm with Marcus; if you have your vehicle on silent, people of the law enforcement persuasion are likely to notice. It's like broadcasting a SIN. If you don't do it, you are supposed to get stopped. In lower-class areas they're less likely to care, but if something seems hinky to them they'll probably use it as 'probable cause' to pull you over. Driving a throwback would get you pulled over frequently.
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Throwbacks are a thing, but the books don't really delve into the legality of driving a throwback on a busy highway during 5 o'clock traffic. It's perfectly legal to drive a John Deer tractor down the side of a rural country road, but you can't drive it down the middle of the I-5 in downtown Seattle.
And the cops can afford to pull over vehicles running silent, b/c those are the only ones blatantly advertising that they're up to no good. The whole point to a police state is that everybody gives up their privacy in order to create the illusion of security. All the other cars on the highway will be broadcasting, so the only cars that don't broadcast are a rare oddity worth investigating. And since all the other cars are using GridGuide, it's very easy for the cops to send a notice, and suddenly all the traffic around that single Silent offender clears up so the police cruiser(s) can get to them.
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Driving a classic car isn't illegal & I don't see how driving a throwback would be either.
Not everyone is going to be driving a car that is less than 10 years old.
You don't have to walk around broadcasting your SIN.
You do have to have it on to walk through a security checkpoint however.
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We didn't say illegal, we said it'll get you stopped. There is a difference.
On top of that, getting a small device that broadcasts the legal information required is probably their version of license plates. If you don't have that, they should be pulling you over, to tell you to get yours fixed or a new one installed or something. It IS illegal to drive without plates of some kind nowadays, and I doubt that changes.
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At every table I've played at, not broadcasting a Commlink or a Vehicle has been grounds for suspicion from the Police. And given that a significant amount of policing is done by relatively corrupt or aggressive organizations like Lone Star, it causes more trouble than it's worth. That's why we usually have the Decker Wrapper things for us (or, in the case of Commlinks get a cheap one to broadcast while our real one runs silent).
As to the whole License Plate thing, I find it very hard to believe that the equivalent of the License Plate is now some broadcast signal. Especially since you can still buy Morphic Plates.
With cars, I don't think Throwbacks would be too much of an issue. Sure, cops might use it as cause to harass someone, but I doubt a lack of Wireless would bring the world down on you. With Aircraft, however, I completely agree. Airspace has always been tightly regulated and in this dystopian world we all run in I'd be hard pressed to say that it's any less regulated (in fact, I'd insist it was more-so). Thus, if you're flying around without transmitting any data or filing flight plans (false or otherwise) then I'd expect you'd get a ton of attention once someone saw you. Then again, it's the seeing you part that'd be the tricky bit. Once they did, though? I'd expect instant contact, the aerial equivalent of pulling you over, and some mediocre to high profile harassment. After all, the poor and the average rarely have VTOLs to dink about in.
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I don't think we'll get an absolute / universal response here. It's no longer a question of mechanism or rule, but more of settings. If you go for a shadowrun world flavor oriented Orwell's 1984, simply running with wireless off and/or silent mode, we'll immediatly get you in trouble. If you go for a more classic cyberpunk or post apo feeling, where nation and their army are powerless and corps sticks to their business first, you'll fly under the radar.
In my case, this all discussion is for flying in a rather deserted part (even nowdays) of Missouri, to hide after a successful, but heat bringing run. In this context, even if Missouri is split between CAS and UCAS, I would assumed that they'll be ignore because:
- no big megacorpo around
- the chopper is quite stealthy (signature masking, chameleon plating)
- they are going to a known smuggler place
- even if CAS/UCAS army got a "ping" on their screen, I don't expect them to go "all out" and investigate everything (as long as it's not a dozen of pings coming from the other country to their territory
Interesting feedback in any case...
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If you're in a 'rather deserted part', chances are you are MORE likely to be investigated if notiiced, not less.
The local cops are probably going to be bored since they have little else to look at.
That said, it depends on what you are doing. If you are trying to look like a normal traveller, keep the wireless on. In the Shadowrun setting, it's considered unusual NOT to have it on. If you're paranoid, have a 'dummy' wireless system that's meant for public viewing, with all legal stuff, not connected to your 'real' equipment.
If you're trying not to be seen at all, yes, shut off the wireless.
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Wow, some very bombastic, black and white statements in this thread. At my table, the world of Shadowrun is grey, not black and white. If I were to have a cop pull over any member of the group every time they disabled wireless on their gear and/or vehicles, I'd be doing that a lot.
All I'm saying.
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I tend to agree with your Herr Brackhaus. I like my role playing game to be "realistic". Yes, if an echo appears on a radar, UCAS military or some local megacorp may (or may not) check it out. Like everything in real life, it's not so black and white.
Maybe the megacorp has no resources for that, maybe the UCAS military does not care until it tries to pass the frontier, or maybe the echo is just to bleak and ruled out as static ?
Yes, a wireless "off" chopper is suspicious, and yes, it may attract attention - or maybe the wireless is broken ? Or maybe the noise just prevent to check it out ? Actually, is the wireless off or running silent, or the icon just too far away ?
Anyhow, i've got more than I wanted from this thread ! Thanks all ! :)
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I always figured that grid guide handles things like this, places like the barrens probably doesnt have grid guide nor have people broadcasting their sins, By contrast, if you are in an area that has grid guide you cant really have a car that doesnt have a throwback since every in 2050 they had grid guide (I mean could but it probably be considered a classic car or is a Morgan ATV that explicitly states they are throwbacks so they cant be hacked) there are items like grid guide override and spoof chips with morphing license plates that can let you bypass most of this.
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Aah, out in the boonies. Then yeah, I doubt anyone would care. I was under the impression you meant like in Seattle or Chicago, where being the one person in a crowd to not have their stuff broadcasting would isolate you quicker than having a Fake whatever up. The only thing I'd worry about, as a runner, is border crossing. I don't know much about the UCAS or CAS, but I could imagine they're not too friendly when it comes to dark VTOLs crossing the border. But that's easy enough to bypass.
When I said before that my tables play by needing something to be broadcasting, that typically means a SIN (Fake or otherwise). Vehicles and stuff have such low device ratings that the Noise pretty much anywhere will make them next to impossible to detect. It's the SIN broadcast from a commlink that'd be important (in cities and stuff). Again, out in the boonies I assume it'd be pretty easy to just disappear.
My main thing is about the VTOL. To me, that changes things. I always assume people will be more paranoid about aircraft just because it's safe to assume that anyone who can afford something like that and then chooses to run dark is probably up to no good. But that's a personal judgement, there.
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Yeah, a wireless-off vtol is going to be a lot more likely to be scrutinized than a car.
-k