Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Raven2049 on <03-21-16/2222:02>
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Looking for a little help.
one of my characters is going to be purchasing the Mitsubishi MRL from R&G and i have a few questions about it and the missiles that go in it (rockets are pretty self explanatory)
- What is the accuracy of it? (i know its listed as missile, but the launchers from Core have an Accuracy on it)
- As the CRB shows the cost of a missile as "+Sensor Rating x 500" does that mean the that the accuracy of the missile is determined by the sensor rating of the missile and the launcher has nothing to do with it? (Other stats are self explanatory)
So if my understanding is correct just as its written, if i wanted a Accuracy 7 missile, i need to pay an additional 3500 nuyen on top of the missile cost in order to have that? Or should there be a base Accuracy that is supposed to be added to (like the one from core) so if i wanted a missle weapon with an accuracy of 7, and the base launcher has an accuracy of 4, i would have to pay an additional 1500 on top of the missle cost.
as far as i can search there is nothing in the errata threads or in the released errata (for R&G) on this topic. so if i need to add it let me know.
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I read it as Rocket price + (Sensor Rating x 500). So the launcher doesn't matter, just like for rockets.
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Why would you need a launcher/projectile with an accuracy higher than 3?
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Away from books, and this I believe, was covered in greater details in War!, but the difference between rockets and missiles is more clearly covered.
Rockets are a direct fire weapon, meaning you point it at the target, pull the trigger and hope for the best.
Missiles are an indirect fire weapon. meaning they require a sensor lock to fire. HOWEVER, they do not need a direct line to the target. SO you could fire a missile from 3 blocks over and still hit a target provided it was locked by your sensors.
And, a target lock was defined by a single success on a Sensor test.
And all this is close to how it was done in earlier versions of the game....
Now granted that was 4e, and things have changed going into 5e, but I don't recall anything different said about missile/rocket fire either way. (seems to be a 'lost' subject)
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Why would you need a launcher/projectile with an accuracy higher than 3?
thats a good question, as i was thinking it was handled similarly to firing a regular weapon i assumed you needed a high accuracy to account for their successes in dodge (yes i was thinking about shooting a person with these) but i forgot all about the sensor targeting aspect that Reaver brought up.
so it would be an perception + Intuition minus the modifiers on p184 test then to make the attack and if i only get one success i succeed on getting the lock and therefore the missile will hit? regardless of their counter rolls?
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Why would you need a launcher/projectile with an accuracy higher than 3?
thats a good question, as i was thinking it was handled similarly to firing a regular weapon i assumed you needed a high accuracy to account for their successes in dodge (yes i was thinking about shooting a person with these) but i forgot all about the sensor targeting aspect that Reaver brought up.
so it would be an perception + Intuition minus the modifiers on p184 test then to make the attack and if i only get one success i succeed on getting the lock and therefore the missile will hit? regardless of their counter rolls?
No, they get to defend as normal... well, as normal gets VS an indirect area effect weapon...
Which is to say: "Grab your ankles and kiss your ass goodbye"
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Again, away from books, but as I recall, you need 3 hits for a direct hit, anything else induces the scatter rules for AOE indirect fire. (Grenades, magic, 'etc').
Also keep in mind, a missile attack COULD be a surprise attack! Since it is an indirect fire weapon, the enemy may never see the launcher, (cause its 6 blocks over, behind a building) and spotting a mirco drone targeting them us hard!
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well that straightens out that line of thinking. But i still have a question about the accuracy of the Mitsubishi MRL as listed in run & gun. It says it can fire either missiles or rockets, but rockets themselvs have no accuracy. Infact the Onotari Interceptor lists its damage as "missile" but it has an accuracy, presumably for when its fired as a rocket launcher. So should i just use that number as the accuracy for most rocket launchers? if i do that, then the Aztechnology striker is weird as well as it has an accuracy listing as well, and different from the Onotari to boot.
any thoughts?
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I got nothing. Well, nothing official.
I feel an ACC of 4 for a base launcher is reasonable. (modified by gear like grips and smart-link, per normal)
These are not 'dime shooting' accurate weapons. They rely on their... expansive nature to do damage.
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Yeah, but it never hurts to hit the nail on the head.
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Not to mention that DV falls off with distance, so to get maximum effect on target you actually want to hit what you're aiming at.
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You ARE talking about a rocket. A 3+ foot long tube packed with propellant and explovies. Not exactly the thing you 'aim' at a small moble target.
A bunker, a tank, an armored car, sure. (And lets see that bunker dodge! The tank/car, ok sure.)
And thats why for moble targets, you use a missile with its better sensors.
Remember, these are NOT anti-personnel weapons (that would be a grenade). These are anti vehicle, static target weapons.
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They can be, if they are in/are near said vehicle explodes.
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There are a few anti-personnel rocket/missile designs. They aren't usually in high demand, but it does exist.
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ya i was thinking along the lines of "he took cover behind what? Its not there anymore." but yes, the guy im building is very much a member of the "bigger is better" mentality. 4 accuracy would work for me as a base, possibly 5, but thats a decision for my GM. Was looking at chummer which is know isnt 100% accurate and for some reason it was giving me an accuracy of 10 on it. now i know where one point comes from, and thats the improved accuracy Heavy Weapons adept power. but beyond that im unsure.
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Reaver
Missiles, at least the real world equivalent, are often fired at moving targets.
The Javelin, and it's older TOW cousin, are excellent examples of this kind of weapon.
Just because a vehicle can be stationary doesn't meant that the majority of shots are taken against immobile targets.
Hence, accuracy is still important both for rockets and missiles, in the latter case partly because the target lock mechanic is still limited by sensor rating and vehicles may get defensive rolls, depending on how the missile was fired.
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Reaver
Missiles, at least the real world equivalent, are often fired at moving targets.
The Javelin, and it's older TOW cousin, are excellent examples of this kind of weapon.
Just because a vehicle can be stationary doesn't meant that the majority of shots are taken against immobile targets.
Hence, accuracy is still important both for rockets and missiles, in the latter case partly because the target lock mechanic is still limited by sensor rating and vehicles may get defensive rolls, depending on how the missile was fired.
Missiles indeed a fired a moving targets. They are the primary weapons of aircraft against other aircraft :P
and, MISSILES have sensors, which determine the limit, not the launcher it self.
ROCKETS do not contain sensors, so the launcher's accuracy would be a factor. But again rockets are used on static targets or large objects like tanks and armored cars.... not generally people.
Hence why I specifically called out ROCKETS in my previous post.
(And before people start getting their panties in a twist and going "AHA! the RPG7-9!!" The name tells you it all, The Rocket Propelled Grenade is still classified as a grenade, even if rocket propelled. Why, I don't know, but I imagine it has something to do with the warhead structure. And the 9 series really does blur the lines, especially with it's low yield, armor defeating shaped charge head.)
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Not just the RPG- series, but also the american bazooka, aka M72. As I stated, the same applies to rockets, which are also fired at moving targets. I think that firing a missile or rocket, particularly an AV variant, at a person is a waste of perfectly good ordnance, unless that target happens to be wearing mil-spec armor, but rockets and missiles both are still fired at moving targets. Considering their speed, there's no reason you wouldn't.
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I miss ripples of rockets, from SR1 and SR2. They each had low damage values, but the damage was cumulative, so the better you rolled - the more hits you got - the more rockets hit the target, and the higher the damage went. They were GREAT for blanketing an area with 'oh god don't hurt me' massive nasty crowd-control damage.
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"Crowd-control"
(http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/faithonthecouch/files/2015/11/inigo.jpeg)
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You amuse me. Tell me that you can't control a crowd with explosions. Go ahead.
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You amuse me. Tell me that you can't control a crowd with explosions. Go ahead.
Crowd control generally assumes that there is a crowd remaining, rather than raining chunks of former persons.
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And you know what happens when you assume. :P
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You amuse me. Tell me that you can't control a crowd with explosions. Go ahead.
Crowd control generally assumes that there is a crowd remaining, rather than raining chunks of former persons.
It's still controlled.
And maybe the future effort without the use of explosives.....
Mustard Gas works well too... (just saying...)
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You amuse me. Tell me that you can't control a crowd with explosions. Go ahead.
I don't know if 'control' is really the right word to use when the survivors scatter to the four winds in a blind panic. Amusing perhaps, but not control. ;D
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You amuse me. Tell me that you can't control a crowd with explosions. Go ahead.
Crowd control generally assumes that there is a crowd remaining, rather than raining chunks of former persons.
It's still controlled.
And maybe the future effort without the use of explosives.....
Mustard Gas works well too... (just saying...)
I think the terms you are looking for are 'suppression' or perhaps 'area denial.'
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Yeah, I can't really get behind a rocket launcher being called a crowd control weapon unless it fires some sort of stun based projectile. Since gas rockets aren't a thing in SR5 yet, a rocket launcher is more of a crowd dispersement weapon than a crowd control weapon as far as I'm concerned.
Crowd destruction works too, but again not what I would consider "crowd control" at least by traditional definitions of that term.
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I've never used rockets or missiles since 3e, but I always went with the assumption that the accuracy of the launcher was strictly for rockets, as they are a point and shoot weapon. As for missiles, can't they be mounted on a vehicle without the launcher? I.e. The military aircraft? Seems like that would explain the lack of launcher accuracy doing anything for a missile's sensors