Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Lacynth40 on <07-26-11/2156:41>
-
Right, looking through a stack of books and PDFs here, and trying to run some stuff involving the Tir, and I can't seem to find the book that has the new Tir regime explained in it. Am I going insane, because I swear I saw some mention of Surehand getting the boot, but not much about the next devil in line that replaced the old system. Someone care to point me towards the sourcebooks that explain what's going on behind the Double-Fence O' Death?
-
There isn't one.
System Failure had mention of the coup's effects in the Tir (and you're right, Surehand and most of the other old Princes got booted). Most of the old guard are exiled and some are actively hunted, Larry Zincan (the ork) is the new High Prince, and the Tir's border paranoia and xenophobia has...softened, somewhat. It's a kinder, gentler, less-awesome (IMO) Tir, in summary. There aren't many details, though.
Sadly, none of it's all been spelled out in one book. Uhm, yet. I'm desperately trying to find the time to actually sit my ass down and write up a Land of Promise e-book proposal and send it in to the Powers That Be, though...and I like to tell myself it'll only be a matter of time before I'm able to scratch this itch (not only for all the other Tir fans out there, but for myself, a rather rabid one).
In the meantime, take solace in the new, now canon, Portland Paladins Urban Brawl team! Something positive came from their nasty old anti-elven coup, in the end. ;)
-
Buh... What am I supposed to do in the mean-time? Just make stuff up?! Heh hee heh...
-
Cover your ears and eyes and pretend it never happened. That Tir Tairngire book from 1993 is still cannon if you don't see or hear any mention of the new stuff. It was all a bad dream, Nigel Findley's take is still the reality.
-
Buh... What am I supposed to do in the mean-time? Just make stuff up?! Heh hee heh...
Just be vague. Is your game set in the Tir, or elsewhere? If elsewhere, just play up the occasional Tir exile (lots of refugees, legal and otherwise, split during the regime change), bulk up the rosters of the Ancients and the Laesa syndicate, highlight their easier time with smuggling runs and that sort of thing...mention Larry Zincan's the new High Prince, and voila. That's all there really is to say.
If your game is set IN the Tir? Well, yeah, you're kind of out of luck. Stick with the old Tir Tairngire sourcebook for now, and just call it a day. Pretend none of this ever happened until we manage to get a book out the door that gives more details; the old Tir book is awesome, anyways, so just revel in its glory instead of worrying about half-detailed coups and stuff.
-
I can actually set the Tir stuff off for a LONG time, so the background fuzz will work quite well. And if the group gets uppity, I can let them try a run into the Tir. They'll have a harder time getting ahold of their usual contacts, since everything is still in a state of getting shaken up. This could actually work well in my favor... *begin evil laugh*
-
And remember that a political shake-up doesn't necessarily change a whole lot to the dude on the street. Sure, the old Immortal Elf High Prince Muckety-Mucks have gotten the boot...but so what? That doesn't mean pro-alven racists that have lived and bred and raised kids in the Tir for decades are going to suddenly be all nice to humans and orks and stuff, does it? If anything, there's room for backlash. The more racist of the "old school" Tir citizens are probably grouchier than ever about an ork being their High Prince, looking wistfully back at the "good old days" when elves ruled over elves, and blah blah blah...making them more likely to be dicks to some visiting human shadowrunner, in my opinion.
It sucks that the details aren't out and canon yet, but there's still plenty of room in Tir Tairngire's shadows for a GM that wants to have some fun there. Hell, I've been faking it (even just in my fanfics) since the changes happened six, seven, years ago real-time.
-
Seems to me that there would be an element of desperation in the Tir racism vs. non-elves in the post-shakeup Land of Promise. I mean, all the Paladins, ex-Paladins, wannabe-Paladins and Great Hunt types aren't getting their blessings from on high anymore.
It's closer to a mirror of the Humanis brain-dead than it was.
-
*sigh*
-
Well since the state of the Tir is in a slow collapse in SR, it going to be interesting to see how ti all shakes out. The Pro-Elven racialist faction hooking up with some of the more conservative factions from the Japanese empire should yeild interesting results
-
Tir Na Nog is in need of an update as well. Maybe do a two in one Tir book?
-
Those two areas are a bit large for one book. You could do them both as ebooks, since there seems to be a bias against setting books in dead tree format.
With Hestaby stepping down as a Prince, that's going to make for a major power vacuum.
-
There is a thing, and it is in the works. I can't give many more details than that, or Bull will wad up NDAs and throw them at me really hard. It is, sadly, a bit behind schedule because it involves adventures and not just a setting update...but it's being worked on. Diligently.
-
SWEET!!!
-
I can't give many more details than that, or Bull will wad up NDAs and throw them at me really hard.
Like he needs an excuse to do that....
-
I can't give many more details than that, or Bull will wad up NDAs and throw them at me really hard.
Like he needs an excuse to do that....
Sure he does. Well, at least, when he throws his hardest...
Which means he wads them up and "throws" them out of his Panther Assault Cannon. :P
-
Well since the state of the Tir is in a slow collapse in SR, it going to be interesting to see how ti all shakes out. The Pro-Elven racialist faction hooking up with some of the more conservative factions from the Japanese empire should yeild interesting results
Let me just say that if you are correct that the Tír is in a slow collapse, then the pro-Elven groups are doing just fine because they can hang it all around the necks of the two most prominent non-elves in Tír Tairngire.
-
I can't give many more details than that, or Bull will wad up NDAs and throw them at me really hard.
Like he needs an excuse to do that....
Sure he does. Well, at least, when he throws his hardest...
Which means he wads them up and "throws" them out of his Panther Assault Cannon. :P
He has a PAC?!? He told me it was a t-shirt launcher.
*happy dance* for the theoretical project.
-
Wasn't there something or another about them in the SWA?
-
Yes. There's an entry on the Tír in 6WA.
-
Well since the state of the Tir is in a slow collapse in SR, it going to be interesting to see how ti all shakes out. The Pro-Elven racialist faction hooking up with some of the more conservative factions from the Japanese empire should yeild interesting results
Let me just say that if you are correct that the Tír is in a slow collapse, then the pro-Elven groups are doing just fine because they can hang it all around the necks of the two most prominent non-elves in Tír Tairngire.
ooh...what a shock from the Dandylion Kingdom. They blame non-elves for everything bad.
looks like the hijinks I created for the 'Nob hill' section of Tarislar was more accurate than I thought
-
And remember that a political shake-up doesn't necessarily change a whole lot to the dude on the street. Sure, the old Immortal Elf High Prince Muckety-Mucks have gotten the boot...but so what? That doesn't mean pro-alven racists that have lived and bred and raised kids in the Tir for decades are going to suddenly be all nice to humans and orks and stuff, does it? If anything, there's room for backlash. The more racist of the "old school" Tir citizens are probably grouchier than ever about an ork being their High Prince, looking wistfully back at the "good old days" when elves ruled over elves, and blah blah blah...making them more likely to be dicks to some visiting human shadowrunner, in my opinion.
It sucks that the details aren't out and canon yet, but there's still plenty of room in Tir Tairngire's shadows for a GM that wants to have some fun there. Hell, I've been faking it (even just in my fanfics) since the changes happened six, seven, years ago real-time.
Well, from what I remember it seemed that this Elven-only doctrine and Isolation politics was the cause of some uprising and coups. So I doubt that people (even Elven) will turn into what they were fighting against previously...but I may be completely wrong, remember this only sporadicaly...
-
The cause of the uprising was that the majority of the population was in crushing poverty, I believe, while the upper class were incredibly wealthy. At the moment, the pro-elven racists are going against the anti-human racists, and the old Princes may not be in the limelight, but anyone who thinks they aren't pulling strings behind the scenes is either naive or ignorant. These are, after all, the same people who convinced the NAN to accept elves as a tribe, and then to 'encourage' metahumans to go to this one section of the SS lands, and then manipulated orders in every megacorp to launch a network of satellites that broadcast an override code that declared their new land, while getting themselves a sizeable military force at the same time, without raising any red flags. So let's just assume they have some contingency plans in place, yes?
-
Like I say, i remember too little to see the pattern, planning to read Tir Tairnige SB sometimes, well I dont even manage to read all new stuff I need for current gameplay :P
-
I like to look at things from an historic perspective. The Great Ghost Dance was devastating not just to the then USA, but also to the Native Americans in that area... An area that had most of the US reservations. That sacrifice would have been acceptable if NAN stayed whole, but it fragmented rapidly. The Salish took the short end of the stick, having taken the most casualties from the eruptions and they likewise got the devastated areas (including what is now Tir Tairngire and maybe Tsimshian?). Years later in what I am sure was an unpopular political decision, the Salish invited metahumans into their territory to bolster their population. What isn't mentioned is that they also brought in a large population of the Crow (who are NOT indigenous to the Puget Sound area) from the Sioux territories. Note that the Sioux (Lakota) and Crow never got along well.
These new peoples got placed... you guessed it... right where all the eruptions occurred, giving them jobs in environmental clean up. At first, I'm sure they were homogenized, but in short order the immigrant Crow reformed their own communities and power base to the north end of the Cascades. Then the elves and trogs split apart on a schism about protecting the environment and raping it for all its worth. Even later, self entitled elves staged a coup and secured TT for themselves.
If the Salish had only welcomed the trogs (arguably the most oppressed meta group) things would have shaken out like the Antebellum South. The Salish don't actually have a problem with slavery. Without the Crow and Elven instigators, the homogenized trogs would never have developed their own identity.
-
And remember that a political shake-up doesn't necessarily change a whole lot to the dude on the street. Sure, the old Immortal Elf High Prince Muckety-Mucks have gotten the boot...but so what? That doesn't mean pro-alven racists that have lived and bred and raised kids in the Tir for decades are going to suddenly be all nice to humans and orks and stuff, does it? If anything, there's room for backlash. The more racist of the "old school" Tir citizens are probably grouchier than ever about an ork being their High Prince, looking wistfully back at the "good old days" when elves ruled over elves, and blah blah blah...making them more likely to be dicks to some visiting human shadowrunner, in my opinion.
It sucks that the details aren't out and canon yet, but there's still plenty of room in Tir Tairngire's shadows for a GM that wants to have some fun there. Hell, I've been faking it (even just in my fanfics) since the changes happened six, seven, years ago real-time.
Well, from what I remember it seemed that this Elven-only doctrine and Isolation politics was the cause of some uprising and coups. So I doubt that people (even Elven) will turn into what they were fighting against previously...but I may be completely wrong, remember this only sporadicaly...
Yes, their xenophobia and racism were the cause of some of the uprising.
That's part of what made Rinelle work where other coup attempts in real life haven't -- everyone with a bone to pick with the Tir government basically grabbed a gun or a bomb, put aside their differences temporarily, and stirred shit up.
It's part of why the Rinelle also makes so very little sense, too, mind; but you had a pro-Elven-radical operating in a terrorist cell next to an Orkish mother of eight who wanted government food stamps, getting their orders from a human who wanted an end to institutionalized racism, and then going on a mission alongside a rich Elven nobleman who just wanted the Princes ousted from power so that he could move up in rank and a normal Elven middle-management type that just wanted the next Rite of Progression to happen on schedule, so he could get a better job.
Everyone who wasn't 100% happy with how the Tir government was working was -- supposedly -- on board with the Rinelle ke'Tesrae. It wasn't like the IRA where it was just the most rabid anti-English and pro-Catholic types, or OWS which has been cheerfully stereotyped as nothing but a bunch of dirty, entitled, hippies.
So...then the Princes are gone, Rinelle has "won," and then what?
Then some of them are happy. Most of them, even. The borders are more open, the ports are busier, the economy is getting a little better, there's regular elections, there's greater government transparency, and all that, right? To some people, they've won. Life's better. Mission accomplished. The status quo is mostly back, but it's improved in enough ways that most of the popular support for this home-grown terrorist group has gone away.
But to the ones like the Black Sun, the Brat'mal, who were the ones bitching because the old Tir government wasn't racist and xenophobic enough? Yeah, they're still pissed, for instance. And they're just the most extreme members of a whole demographic slice, remember.
-
Looking at the Black Sun faction, and remembering a chapter out of Artifacts Unbound (among other things) - makes me wonder if there have been or will be contacts between Brat'mael and ex-Prince Jenna NiFairra. Or something . . .
-
Looking at the Black Sun faction, and remembering a chapter out of Artifacts Unbound (among other things) - makes me wonder if there have been or will be contacts between Brat'mael and ex-Prince Jenna NiFairra. Or something . . .
Mm-hmm.
-
Looking at the Black Sun faction, and remembering a chapter out of Artifacts Unbound (among other things) - makes me wonder if there have been or will be contacts between Brat'mael and ex-Prince Jenna NiFairra. Or something . . .
Mm-hmm.
Am I giving you ideas? ::)
-
Looking at the Black Sun faction, and remembering a chapter out of Artifacts Unbound (among other things) - makes me wonder if there have been or will be contacts between Brat'mael and ex-Prince Jenna NiFairra. Or something . . .
Mm-hmm.
Am I giving you ideas? ::)
Heh. No. Not in the slightest. Where the Tir is concerned, I've already had the ideas, because it's always been just about my favorite corner of the Sixth World. Check out the opening fiction from Way of the Adept, for instance, for some stuff tangentially related to Ms. NiFairra and how some Tir elves feel about her.
-
Are your ideas going to see print? for the wider audience?
-
Are your ideas going to see print? for the wider audience?
As always, the answer is "some of them." ;) For the Tir in particular, I think it's safe to say "more than most," yes.
-
I'd love to know about the Border Patrol, & Military. Some of us really, REALLY hate politics ;)
-
In the Tír (and the Sioux Nation and Russia, among others) the Peace Force is so intrinsic to the fabric of the country that it is itself political.
-
Well, I was hoping to know about their structures, which military models they use, as well as their ranks, etc...
-
Your best bet would be to look in the Tir Tairngir sourcebook. That's the only source that talks about the Peace Forces, IIRC. However, to be clear, the cop you see on the street, the soldier on the border, and that Ghost who just slipped a knife between your ribs are all part of the Peace Forces. They're not just interconnected, they're the same group. Now there will be rivalries, of course, just as there are rivalries in the US army between Green Berets, Paratroopers, Armored Cavalry, and Artillerymen, but they are all the same organization.
And yes, that means they do have a great deal of clout.
-
Well, I was hoping to know about their structures, which military models they use, as well as their ranks, etc...
While it would be cool to have an order of battle for the TTPF, this is something I could Google about any real military and create myself. I would rather they use that word space for something more immediately useful.
-
I'd love to know about the Border Patrol, & Military. Some of us really, REALLY hate politics ;)
As Von Clauswitz said "War is a mere continuation of politics by other means," - as Mr. Meiers points out, these units are so intrinsic to the fabric of the nation they must become political. We can't have one without the other 8)
-
And the other way around, too, of course. It's not merely that the military affects the politics, it's that the politics affects the military. With high muckety-mucks leaving the Tir like mad and taking a bunch of Oathbound Paladin-types with them (either as loyal followers or chasing them like hunting hounds), do you really think organizations like the Tir Ghosts are still as x7hd76x7 dad&*$^4472 bdahare? Of course they're idjkdh7{^#@@@@@@ <deleted by SySop, NDA demands patience>
-
I played with an elf whose father was a Tir Ghost. Something in the backstory said that the Ghosts betrayed them and killed the mother and father and then the twins (boy and girl) had to flee to Seattle. Cry me a river, emo boy.... Anyway, it turns out that this elf (and his sister) fought with the Wildcat fighting style, not Carromaleg (sp?) and that was taught to them by the now dead father. So I was waiting for a chance for him to bring that up in character so that I could break the news that his father was a Sioux deep cover agent and that's why he knew Wildcat fighting style instead of the Tir Carromaleg. And that's exactly the sort of thing the Sioux would have done when the Tir first broke away from the Salish.
-
I know this is an old thread, but I've got a copy of "Land of promise" And have a problem with it.
It so throughly changes so much of the society that was there before... Im trying to figure out how much of the society that was there in the printing of the original book "Tir Tairngire" is left. I cant even tell if the Social tiers have been completely disbanded or not.
I could tell the Star chamber has gone from joke, to a seriously powerful elected body.
Finally, Im curious how difficult would it be at this point for these 'reforms' to be reversed.
-
This was literally the first and only word on the revolution for a while:
Days after the failed continental uprising, the runners are approached by a longstanding contact. He offers them good money to hide and protect a mysterious individual coming from Sinsereach lands. If the team accepts, they’ll be surprised to meet Lugh Surehand, now the former High Prince of Tir Tairngire. Surehand is on the run from Ghost Commandos sent by Tir’s new regime, but needs to finish some urgent busi- ness in Seattle before going into hiding.
That was in 2005, and that was it. It wasn't even a section or a subchapter in the final SR3 plotbook. It was one of three adventure seeds. That was supplemented by a whole half a column in Runner Havens explaining Zincan was in charge and somehow TT was now a democracy with a functioning Star Chamber. That was it until 2010 and the publication of Sixth World Almanac, which didn't have a whole lot more room to explain the mess the Tir was thrown into along with all of the other plots in the penultimate chapter of System Failure.
To say Tir Tairngire got screwed is an understatement, but Land of Promise was written to actually deal with the whole mess within the limits of having to describe everything else in the Tir in around 20,000 words. Luckily, the writer of LoP happens to be the biggest fan of the Tir in the world.
-
Yeah, Critias likes teh Tir even more than *I* do, and that's saying something. :D
What you have in the Tir is a sort of 'paper revolution', where a bunch of factions got together and threw the bums out... and then the winning factions broke apart. The end result is that the society didn't actually change so much as the actors on stage did.
Let me start over.
Since forever, teh Tir has had a grumbly underbelly of mostly non-Elves, who hated everything about the Tir. They were sold on a place where all metas would be equal and everyone would get a fair shake to one where ELves are more equal than everyone else and the whole system is rigged. Since Elves compose the majority by *quite* a lot, and are in power, they don't see any reason to change things, so the revolution never really gets going. Oh, sure, there's a movement, but it's about as toothless as when naked protestors show up at a press conference for the Hobbit to protest the mistreatment of animals. People shake their heads, go, "Oh, those guys," and go about their business.
This goes on for a while, until a few things in the Tir upper levels change. Economic turmoil kicks in, there's a bt of a power play behind the scenes, and the Rite of Ascension gets called off. All of a sudden, John Q Elf finds that he has no way to advance in society and that the economy's starting to shrivel up and die. He goes to the Star Council, and finds out that nothing actually happens there. Discontent spreads and suddenly people start manning the rebel movement, and by 'people' I mean 'Elves'. Now, it's turning into a real threat, so the Princes do what always used to work ... hardcore crackdowns. Unfortunately, in the modern age, this doesn't work out so well and sicontent lights up. Someone in the mix breaks out the old "Rebels of teh Spire' terminology which freaks the Princes out, who assume that someone from the past has come back to swat them, and they double-down on the crackdown. Things go badly, more and more people join teh rebellion, and soon, the government is toppled and teh bad eggs are all tossed out.
Huzzah! People power!
The older rebels, however, were the discontented underclass and assumed that everyone had signed on to their idea... tear down the system, rebuild a true democracy, and give everyone equal rights. The majority, however? Oh, that wasn't the problem... society was fine as it was, it's just that the PRINCES had to go! Now the economy can get to work again, we can have proper Rites of Ascension once again, and all will be fine.
So, a real reform took place in the democratic Star Council as a lower house, where the people can actually have a voice, and new Princes were put in place. Society largely went back to just like it was ... Elves in power, the different levels of citizenry, who could own land, racism, and so on. Teh underclass were *pissed* at this betrayal, but had given up a lot of secrets by bringing the rebels into teh mix and found their leadership getting arrested and their old hiding places exposed. They had to throw out everything and start over from scratch since the entire movement was compromised.
In short, the Tir is much like it used to be, only with a friendlier face since the new Princes aren't as set in their ways as the old ones, and is more open since they learned that a closed society is a dead economy. They love tourist Nuyen and want people to visit ... but not stay.
-
Oh, yeah. We should start by mentioning the Rinelle retcon way back in Shadows of North America that arose from the cancellation of the 2057 Rite of Progression.
The Rinelle was composed of literally every opposition group—from downtrodden non-elves to elves wanting their Rite to elven supremacists. This is a thing that somehow happened and lasted long enough to successfully depose the Council of Princes off the pages until Critias was able to finally start explaining it years after the fact.
But this is Critias' wheelhouse, so I'll just to defer to him from this point forward.
-
This was literally the first and only word on the revolution for a while
Probably because the Revolution wasn't televised, so no one cared. ;D
-
Since forever, teh Tir has had a grumbly underbelly of mostly non-Elves, who hated everything about the Tir. They were sold on a place where all metas would be equal and everyone would get a fair shake to one where ELves are more equal than everyone else and the whole system is rigged. Since Elves compose the majority by *quite* a lot, and are in power, they don't see any reason to change things, so the revolution never really gets going. Oh, sure, there's a movement, but it's about as toothless as when naked protestors show up at a press conference for the Hobbit to protest the mistreatment of animals. People shake their heads, go, "Oh, those guys," and go about their business.
As I often out, one thing that have been overlooked so far is how early Tir Tairngire was established. In 2035, except for a very small number of "spike babies", the oldest elves (and dwarves) were only turning only 24. At its beginning, Tir Tairngire would have been a bit like if hippies had established their own country in 1970. A generation of young people who wants to change the world, separate themselves from both the US and the NAN, resurrect a language and the old ways, and establish a new society were social status is based on merit. And smoke Awakened pot I guess.
Compare to the oks and trolls, who goblinized at any age. They could be 40, 50, 60, with professional skills and experience. They may have had a social status before, and they lost it when they goblinized. Tir Tairngire. Imagine how they felt as all those younger elves were getting everything they were still denied.
Yeah, I can see why their children, the second generation, were messed up.
-
And if you factor in an Ork population that has generations at 15, rather than the 20 that is generally used for humans, give it a couple years from 2021 for teh first breeding couples to drop, so the second gen comes of age in 2036, call it a new round in 2038, third gen comes of age in 2053, fourth gen comes of age in 2068, and the current, fifth gen kids, hit adulthood in 2083, well, when your grandparents used to talk about how *their* parents got screwed by the same people that were in power when you became an adult ...
That's fun, that is.
-
I disagree on the math. Ork do reach puberty before human. But while human women can be fertile at 12, and, in the Western countries, a lot becomes sexually active between 16 and 20. Yet, mean age at first birth in those countries still remains several years after that, 25 in the US. Society, living standards, and financial independence may matter much more than biology. Surely, the mean age at first childbirth tend to be lower in the poorer and less-educated part of the population, which in Shadowrun means orks. But as far as racial stereotypes go, mean age for Hispanic and black mothers in the US is "only" three years less than it is for white mothers (source (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db21.htm)).
Add : By 2064 when the regime fell, the twenty-something you would expect in a revolutionary crowd would be born between 2034 and 2043. So the elves and dwarves would be the children of the founding generation, the orks and trolls either children or grandchildren. It's just to clarify what I referred to about the "second generation" in my post above.
-
Everyone else pretty much tackled what I was out to say (and thanks, fellas) about the many changes "in" Land of Promise; they weren't really in LoP at all, I just tried to wrap them all up after the fact (often years after the fact), because prior to this they were all scattered across multiple books (and multiple editions, in fact).
If anything, I think you can get more mileage out of the original Tir Tairngire post-LoP. I tried to take a step back from the "Disney Wonderland," the metaracial harmony, the open borders, etc, etc. At the same time, I was out to strike a balance between the old TT and the newer, more open and available for gameplay, country. It's not my place to straight-up retcon things like the Immortal Elves being ousted, Zincan being High Prince, or the democratic election of Princes to the Council. At best, I could explain all of that, work it in with the Tir as we knew it back in 2nd edition, and just try to make sense of it all. As I told a few of my fellow freelancers when nervously showing them first drafts, I was trying to dial things back, so that the Tir wasn't (a) an unplayable "elves are better than you" zone with unbeatable security and Initiates behind every blade of grass, but also (b) unrecognizable from the classic Tir, because Nigel's seminal book is one of my favorites and I didn't want to wipe it away completely.
So I was basically out to wrap up the ongoing "coup" stuff (it had never really been detailed, the new Council hadn't even been introduced, since it happened almost ten years ago), stabilize the Tir into a recognizable (but playable) form, and...here's the tricky bit...do all of it inside my word count. As it was, I was already way over (that entire intro fic, for instance, and all the NPCs in the back, were stuff I basically didn't get paid for, because I used up MORE than my initial word count on the rest of it, anyways).
I did what I could in the space I had, trying to tie up some things, re-reveal others, and introduce a new batch of Tir Princes. I'm sorry if folks aren't happy with the eventual outcome. I want people to like the stuff I write, but especially when it's something like LoP -- which was "my" baby in that I made the pitch to write it because I thought it needed to be written, just to try and make sense of that particular corner of the setting after it was whip-sawed around all these years.
-
Everyone else pretty much tackled what I was out to say (and thanks, fellas) about the many changes "in" Land of Promise; they weren't really in LoP at all, I just tried to wrap them all up after the fact (often years after the fact), because prior to this they were all scattered across multiple books (and multiple editions, in fact).
If anything, I think you can get more mileage out of the original Tir Tairngire post-LoP. I tried to take a step back from the "Disney Wonderland," the metaracial harmony, the open borders, etc, etc. At the same time, I was out to strike a balance between the old TT and the newer, more open and available for gameplay, country. It's not my place to straight-up retcon things like the Immortal Elves being ousted, Zincan being High Prince, or the democratic election of Princes to the Council. At best, I could explain all of that, work it in with the Tir as we knew it back in 2nd edition, and just try to make sense of it all. As I told a few of my fellow freelancers when nervously showing them first drafts, I was trying to dial things back, so that the Tir wasn't (a) an unplayable "elves are better than you" zone with unbeatable security and Initiates behind every blade of grass, but also (b) unrecognizable from the classic Tir, because Nigel's seminal book is one of my favorites and I didn't want to wipe it away completely.
So I was basically out to wrap up the ongoing "coup" stuff (it had never really been detailed, the new Council hadn't even been introduced, since it happened almost ten years ago), stabilize the Tir into a recognizable (but playable) form, and...here's the tricky bit...do all of it inside my word count. As it was, I was already way over (that entire intro fic, for instance, and all the NPCs in the back, were stuff I basically didn't get paid for, because I used up MORE than my initial word count on the rest of it, anyways).
I did what I could in the space I had, trying to tie up some things, re-reveal others, and introduce a new batch of Tir Princes. I'm sorry if folks aren't happy with the eventual outcome. I want people to like the stuff I write, but especially when it's something like LoP -- which was "my" baby in that I made the pitch to write it because I thought it needed to be written, just to try and make sense of that particular corner of the setting after it was whip-sawed around all these years.
And you did a pretty good job with it. I really only had the one complaint (which I stated in another thread) which was the "dice pool" format for the NPCs rather than a skill rating one.
-
I have been treating the place as a mess much like the Romanian collapse after Nicolae Ceaușescu got it in the neck. While the lovely adverts say something else, the place is seething under the surface, and the last unicorns were eaten a while ago and rainbows need not apply.
While it is pretty to look at, it's also evident to anyone who paid attention that Tir Xenophobia is still pretty common and the local Geheime Staatspolizei is still running a lot of things, while the more democratically leaning sections control the TPF.
makes for interesting times
-
I have been treating the place as a mess much like the Romanian collapse after Nicolae Ceaușescu got it in the neck. While the lovely adverts say something else, the place is seething under the surface, and the last unicorns were eaten a while ago and rainbows need not apply.
While it is pretty to look at, it's also evident to anyone who paid attention that Tir Xenophobia is still pretty common and the local Geheime Staatspolizei is still running a lot of things, while the more democratically leaning sections control the TPF.
makes for interesting times
If that would be true, Tir Ghosts are nothing more than toy soldiers. Ive been to Romania. Seen their military...not in action well objects, equipenment, vehicles, roads etc. That land is fucked up. And they cannot even maintain the nice image in media...
-
more like better press control than Romania. But to say the Local Security zampolits and the the army probably do not like each other overly much is a mild understatement
-
more like better press control than Romania. But to say the Local Security zampolits and the the army probably do not like each other overly much is a mild understatement
Its not about press controll in Romania. Its about controlling everyone who ever saw that cuntry. They are trying hard for last 20 years to get back to civilized world, even became part of EU, well everyone here knows the stats...
I still wish them well...when you forget about highway gangs kidnapping and robbing trucks and cars adn crrupted cops who only look how to get something out of you, the people there are mostly really nice, know what hospitality means, and take care of you when you need to park your bike for a night and get some sleep. Got some really good memories from there...
-
Huh. Just noticed ElfKrystal never really came back after anyone tried to explain some stuff to him/her. Oh well.
-
It's all useful; even if it goes to other people.
Plus, more Grimmy, which I'm always down for. :D
-
You are a strange, strange man....
-
Can we get Grimmy to commentate on every supplement from now on? >:)
-
Can we get Grimmy to commentate on every supplement from now on? >:)
If I had a wish-making genie, yes. Sans that, no, but he might pop up where you least expect him.
-
Can we get Grimmy to commentate on every supplement from now on? >:)
If I had a wish-making genie, yes. Sans that, no, but he might pop up where you least expect him.
GET!OUT!FROM!THAT!CHRISTMASS!TREE!
-
Calm, Sichr! Grimmy's a book, not a cat....
-
Calm, Sichr! Grimmy's a book, not a cat....
Heh....
I just had a feeling that that is the place Grimmy can pop most likely in next few days :)
-
"Hi, you look like you are trying to keep your Racialist Fascist State from Flying apart at the seams. would you like some help?" -Grimmy