Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: KarmaInferno on <04-30-12/1250:40>
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I've been thinking. I have had complaints about the speed and quality of errata and clarifications from Catalyst. Many of them. Perhaps it would be more constructive to help identify what needs to be fixed.
I'd like people to list here rules issues that often seem to cause many long, drawn out discussions. I'm not talking about what you may find right or wrong with the rules. Just things that seem to trigger large arguments every time they come up.
Preferably, list JUST the problem rule at hand without injecting any personal bias you may have on how the rule should be interpreted.
I would also like this NOT to be a discussion are for any rules issues listed here - if you want to discuss it, make a thread in the Rules forum.
I'll start:
Many initiative pass boosting items have language restricting the stacking of "other Initiative boosting items". Some of the text seems to have been copy-pasted from Third Edition, where the initiative system worked differently. Is the stacking restriction intended to mean ANY item that modifies the Initiative score, or just items that add actual Initiative Passes?
-k
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Does Lightning Bolt actually do Physical Damage, as per the stat block, or Stun Damage per the Electricity elemental effect?
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Does Lightning Bolt actually do Physical Damage, as per the stat block, or Stun Damage per the Electricity elemental effect?
I'm not an official source, but as someone who's been burned...literally...by electricity, I'm going to say the former.
The official answer may vary from this.
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Depends on the voltage and amperage, as well as the natural resistance of the person.
My electrocution "Super Happy Fun Times" were stun damage only, but I overflowed into physical damage once.
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Depends on the voltage and amperage, as well as the natural resistance of the person.
My electrocution "Super Happy Fun Times" were stun damage only, but I overflowed into physical damage once.
Right, but we're talking about the text that says "Electrical damage is treated as Stun" vs the Lightning Bolt's entry that says "Damage: P".
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An official (non-FAQ) answer to the Firewall question would be nice.
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Firewall question?
Please post as if talking to someone who has no idea what the issue is.
The idea here is to compile a list of rules questions for clarification. We've all seen them. Regardless of how you or I feel on this or that subject, the mere mention spawns a multi page thread and sometimes virtual fistfights. The very fact that they elicit such a reaction means the rules as written could stand to be cleared up and clarified.
-k
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Firewall question?
Please post as if talking to someone who has no idea what the issue is.
The idea here is to compile a list of rules questions for clarification. We've all seen them. Regardless of how you or I feel on this or that subject, the mere mention spawns a multi page thread and sometimes virtual fistfights. The very fact that they elicit such a reaction means the rules as written could stand to be cleared up and clarified.
-k
The whole deal on whether Firewall is limited by Response.
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How indirect TOUCH combat spells work, with a step-by-step example.
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why CanRay can never play.
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- What exactly is the definition of an Initiative Enhancer/Initiative Booster? Is it just anything that boosts IP or Reaction, or is there more to it?
-Are called shots meant to be capable in any firing mode as long as weapon is capable of single shot, semi-auto, and burst fire, or is this poor wording and they're only capable of being taken on single shot, semi-auto, and burst fire attacks?
-Is taking aim for Image Magnification meant to use up one of your +1 bonus slots? In other words, you can only take aim up to half your skill times sequentially. Does using it for image magnification use this up so that a person with a skill of four that aims with a scope can only take aim once more for a +1 bonus, or does it not count so he can aim two more times for a +2 bonus? RAW implies the first, but common sense would say aiming with a scope should allow you to be more precise.
-On the same topic, is take aim really meant to disallow skill of less than two from being able to take aim, and consequentially unable to benefit from a scope?
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why CanRay can never play.
He will
He's found a GM (thats Hot News from Shadowrun.com ;) )
Hough !
Medicineman
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Are there any "hidden" spell modifiers Catalyst used to write some spells? Some spells seem to have an extra Drain, or less Drain, than just the tables would imply in Street Magic.
Also, does Force matter at all for healing spells?
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Does the Shapechange spell change the character's augmented maximums to those of the critter that you change into?
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What is the augmented max for stats of other beings, like critters or spirits? Is it based on their current attribute ratings? Are their stats assumed to be 'average", so they can be raised 3 times before hitting their racial cap, and that cap is what you base augmented maximums on?
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Can you use the Heal spell to heal Fading?
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What is the Karma cost of raising Attributes? New Rating times 3, like in the core errata? Or New Rating times 5, like in the Anniversary book?
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Also, does Force matter at all for healing spells?
You can't heal more boxes of damage than the Force of the spell, IIRC, so my guess would be yes it does. Not official, but I know I read that somewhere....
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A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.
For purposes of drain for casting a Heal spell, the Force doesn't matter. The Drain will always be DV-2. However, your maximum hits are based off Force, so throwing the force as high as you can isn't a bad idea. Also note that regardless of what number the drain comes out to, it is Stun damage unless you crank the Force of the spell up over your Magic, in which case it is Physical, as normal for overcasting. So if you're a magician with Magic 5, and you Heal someone with 8P damage, if you cast at Force 5, you are limited to 5 hits, and will have to resist 6S damage, but if you cast at Force 8, you can potentially heal all the damage, while you resist 6P drain.
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What is the Karma cost of raising Attributes? New Rating times 3, like in the core errata? Or New Rating times 5, like in the Anniversary book?
Its x5
but You should also use the newer Karma Rewards (its about 50 - 66% more Karma )
with a new & improved Dance
Medicineman
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why CanRay can never play.
He will
He's found a GM (thats Hot News from Shadowrun.com ;) )
Hough !
Medicineman
The start of a game happened. Let's see what happens from here.
This is usually when everything falls apart.
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Is Scan result, that reveals every node in mutual Signal range, compatible with AR view?
I mean...
If you are in the building, every tag, doorbell etc has ARO that is exactly placed in the AR view. When you run scan, and find hidden nodes of assassins team hidden in one of rooms, would those nodes appear in the AR view on the place they really are...and should be used i.e. for targeting?
Do you need GPS when you are using Commlink, or is GPS part of data commlink provides?
If commlink is GPS capable and IF the information it sends to the meshwork precise enought that you are able to see the ARO of the commlink in AR overlay when you look at it, why Trace gives you only +-50 meters diameter area, not exact location of Traced commlink?
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This list was compiled by myself, Hida Tsuzua, and squee_nabob.
High Priority Questions:
These are questions that are difficult to simply avoid and are of game-changing importance, organized by topic.
Magic:
Perception
Q1: Please clarify to what extent a mundane character can use their skills at Infiltration to avoid being noticed by an Astral or Dual-Natured being using Astral Perception. What does each side roll? Are any special rules or modifiers applicable?
Q2: Precisely what sort of “physical cyber- and bio-enhancements paid for with essence” allow a mage to target spells? Specifically:
1) Cyberears?
2) Implanted Ultrasound sensor?
3) Implanted Ultrawideband Radar?
Please clarify what exactly is necessary for a sense to count for this purpose.
Mystic Adepts:
Q3: Please give a complete list of all purposes for which a mystic adept uses their total magic, their Adept-powers magic, and their Magician-skills magic. This list should specifically address maximum ranks in adept powers, maximum force of spells, maximum force of spirits, overcasting, maximum bound foci, dice rolled when using adept powers that require Magic rolls, and the value used when using adept powers that do not require rolls but reference Magic (example: Heightened Concentration). The current FAQ and SR4A contradict each other on this topic.
Possession:
Q4: Please clarify exactly what happens when an Adept or Mystic Adept (please address both cases) is possessed by a spirit with Magic higher, lower, and equal to the Adept or Mystic Adept's Magic. Include both the case when the Mystic Adept does have Channeling and when the Mystic Adept does not have Channeling. In each case, does the character retain use of Adept powers? What happens if the character’s Magic changes as a result of possession?
Q5: Please clarify with extensive examples what is and is not an example of “implants, cyberware, or nanoware that would require active control” for the purposes of possession. Include at minimum answers for: cyberlimbs, Synaptic Boosters, Reaction Enhancers, Wired Reflexes, cybereyes/ears (and precisely what modifiers for them do and do not work), and implanted cyberweapons. If only some functionality is available to a spirit (example: “spirits benefit from Wired Reflexes if they are on when the spirit possesses the vessel, but it cannot turn them on or off”) say so.
Matrix:
Matrix Perception:
Q6: Clarify with extensive examples what information can and cannot be learned by using Matrix Perception on a node. In each case, include whether this information can be learned from outside the node or whether it can only be learned when logged in. Include answers to the following: what is the node’s ARC, what icons are in the node, what programs are running in the node, does it have any special login requirements (example: Passkey system).
Q7: Please clarify what information can be gained from the identifying tag on an icon versus from making a Matrix Perception Test on that icon. What sort of action is it to learn the information on the identifying tag?
Q8: The security in action example on page 79 of Unwired appears to contradict a number of the rules for how the Matrix works. Please clarify all of the following points:
1) How can Jin, who is not logged on to the node, (but monitoring it somehow) make a MPT to notice the IC being shut down as a reaction?
2) How does Jin immediately see the intruder without making a Matrix Perception Test? How does the Juhseung Saja IC program see the intruder without making a Matrix Perception Test?
3) What does it mean to be watching a node you are not logged on to? What can you and can you not perceive? When can you make reactive Matrix Perception Tests, and what do they oppose? Can you tell if someone else is watching a node?
Q9: What actions, if any, prevent Stealth from being used on the matrix? For example, if an icon is running Stealth, is it automatically noticed if it:
1) Has an alert called against it?
2) Uses a Cybercombat action?
3) Edits a file?
4) Issues a command to the node (using permissions)?
5) Other actions, if any, that cause it be automatically noticed?
Is it possible to notice that something has occured (example: take damage in Cybercombat, notice IC has been unloaded, etc), but not know who did it?
Locations on the Matrix:
Q10: In general, when a matrix rule refers to where “you are,” does it mean your Persona or an Icon? For example, does a Paladin sprite need to be in the same node as your Persona to use the Castling power (Unwired 156) on you? Does it need to be in the same node as one of your icons? Does it need to be on the same node as the icon attacking you? Can it protect all of your icons by Castling one of them? What about Assist Operation - does a sprite need to be in the same node that your Persona is running from (ie, in your bionode)? Does it need to be in the same node as one of your icons?
Hacking:
Q11:SR4A 235 states that hacking a node requires either an open subscription, or mutual signal range, and that if you have neither, you cannot initiate a hacking action. This raises several questions about how hacking works:
1) Unwired 52 states that User Access Rights are required to enter a node in VR or AR. When Public access is granted, what does this mean? Do you enter the node anyways? How does this interact with Unwired 52? If you do not enter the node, what are you doing? What can and can you not do with a Public account, exactly? Can you take actions such as creating a hidden account (Unwired 97)? To what extent does a Public account qualify as "access?"
2) How else can a hacker hack into a node that they do not have mutual signal range to and don't already have an account on? For example, if a node is set to refuse Public Accounts entirely and the hacker doesn't have a different account type, then has Signal 0, and sits within 1m of several decently-high signal devices (thus meaning that it is on the matrix, but nobody not physically next to it is in mutual signal range), is it functionally impregnable to hacking?
3) Are there any circumstances in which a Log On action could be taken with a Public account, or is a User account always required? If yes, what circumstances?
Q12: According to Unwired 67, a hacker with an Active Alert against them must make Hacking rolls to perform actions that normally require no roll. However, since these actions normally require no roll, how does one figure out what program should be rolled with hacking? In particular, what program is used to:
1) Load and unload IC?
2) Active and deactive alerts?
3) Terminate another user’s connection?
4) Change the privileges granted to each level of access account on a node?
Q13: If an exploit has the Mute program option and an alarm is triggered but delayed:
1) By what means can the hacker (or anyone else) discover that the alarm has been triggered and is delayed? Please explain exactly what rolls are involved, if any.
2) By what means can the hacker (or anyone else) prevent the now-delayed alarm from going off? Please explain exactly what rolls are involved, if any.
Drones and Rigging:
Q14: How do Machine sprites in particular (and other sprite types in general) pilot drones? Do they replace a pilot program? Do they use the same rules as pilot programs? If not, what do their autosofts do? Please clarify exactly how this works. If a sprite is in a vehicle’s node and wants to do something, and it conflicts with the Pilot program, who has precedence?
Q15: Please explain precisely how drones interact with Tactical Software. In particular, please clarify all of the following points: Unwired 125 says “each drone can supply a number of sensor channels equal to its sensor rating.” Explain exactly what this means.
1) Is this saying that if the drone is a member of the TacNet, that it counts as having a number of sensor channels equal to its sensor rating (if so, why do drones like the Wuxing Hussar have a rating 4 tacsoft they can’t use?
2) Is it saying that it supplies that many to itself in addition to the normal rules?
3) Is it saying it can supply that many to someone else? If it supplies the channels to someone else, can it also be a member of the tacnet itself, if it has enough channels by the normal rules? Can it divide its sensor channels among multiple people (for example, can a Sensor 2 drone provide 1 channel to one person and 1 channel to a second person? Can it provide two channels to both people?)
Equipment and Ware:
Weapons:
Q16: The rules for using fully automatic fire against both passengers and vehicles are very unclear. Do you resolve it as a full auto burst against the vehicle, and also a full auto burst against each passenger? Does it matter how many passengers there are? If they are considered burst attacks, do they need to be narrow? Do they need to be wide?
Cyberlimbs
Q17: Please explain exactly and precisely how cyberlimbs work. Include an example where you show all the steps of the calculations (example: "Critical George adds 4+4 for his two regular limbs, 5 for his left cyberleg, 4 for his cybersorso, and 7 for his right cyberleg, for a total of 24. He then divides by 5 and rounds down, giving an average of 4"), not just the conclusion. Specifically, please clarify all of the following points:
1) What is a "limb" and what is a "partial limb." Are torsos full limbs? Are skulls full limbs? When should they be used in tests? Can you give some examples of when you would use each of their attributes for a test? In particular, if they are full limbs, when should you average them in, and when would the lowest attribute including them be used? If they are partial limbs, can you give examples of when each of their three attributes would be used in a test?
2) Give an extensive list of tasks which use the average of all limbs for each attribute versus a single limb versus average of a specific set of limbs versus the lowest of a specific set of limbs, and clarify which limbs are involved in each averaging. Please include all of the following: resisting damage, determining maximum wearable armor, Infiltration, firing a two-handed weapon (such as an assault rifle), wielding a two-handed melee weapon (such as a claymore), making a Kick Attack, Palming various items.
3) Please give an extensive list of examples of when the attribute of a lower arm, lower leg, hand, and foot should and should not be used; in particular, include firing a one-handed weapon, wielding a one-handed melee weapon, Palming various items, making a Kick attack, using a Shock Glove, using a cyberweapon implanted in the body part in question (and please clarify if it matters what type of cyberweapon).
Sensors:
Q18: Precisely what sort of things can a cyberware scanner identify and what information, precisely, does it give? Can it see implanted cyberguns? Can it tell they are weapons? Can it see a cyberarm gyromount? Does it identify the cyberarm gyromount as what it is? Can it identify an Ares Executive Protector as a weapon? What methods, if any, exist to foil it (aside from the obvious methods of hacking it or using delta-grade cyberware or bioware and not carrying any weapons)?
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Lower priority:
These are questions that are of less game-changing importance and that can be avoided by avoiding (for example) a single spell, adept power, or the like, but which still need clarification.
Q19: How, exactly, does the power Heightened Concentration from Digital Grimoire work? Specifically:
1) What counts as a "single penalty?" Is sustaining 3 spells a -6 penalty, or three -2 penalties? What about recoil penalties; how do they interact with Heightened Concentration? Is the recoil penalty from multiple shots a single penalty? Is recoil from different guns (such as one held in each hand) seperate recoil penalties or one larger recoil penalty?
2) Do you have to take one complex action to specify what penalty you want negated (example: "the -6 penalty from being blind"), and then negate that penalty on your actions until you spend another complex action to change it? Or do you have to spend one complex action each time you want to take a particular action? How long does it last in the latter case (example: "the -6 penalty from being blind on this next shot I am about to take?" "The -6 penalty from being blind during this particular gunfight?")
Q20: How, exactly, does the echo Swap work? This one really, badly, desperately needs a complete and step-by-step example of exactly what it does and doesn't do. Please include both how it interacts with multiple complex forms being threaded at the same time and whether it reduces the penalty for all purposes or only for Threading rolls.
Q21: Can the High Velocity modification be added to any full-auto weapon, or only to full auto SMGs and Assault Rifles, that is, does the restriction "only SMGs and Assault Rifles may be constructed as High Velocity weapons" mean that they are also the only weapons that can be modified to be High Velocity, or merely that they are the only weapons that can have inherent High Velocity?
Q22: Please clarify what does and does not count as exotic ammunition for the purposes of the Full Auto modification. In particular: shotguns that can fire both shot and other ammunition types, shotguns that can only fire shot, the slivers fired by the Ares Viper Slivergun, the ammunition used by Gauss Rifles, the power packs used by Laser weapons, High Powered Rounds, and the chemicals used by the SuperSquirt.
Q23: Precisely what do and do not Tailored Pheremones add to? Specifically, are they meant to add to rolls that are [Charisma]+[a social skill] or are they meant to add to rolls that include either Charisma or a Social skill or both? For example, do they add to Judge Intentions tests? Fade rolls for a Charisma-stream Technomancer? Would they add to a Social skill test that didn’t use Charisma (for example, the Logic+Leadership tests in WAR!)?
Q24: SR4A 334 lists several types of sensor packages that have no listed price anywhere: “micro” (Does this mean only microdrones use that line? Can you buy a non-drone microsensor package? How much does it cost?), handheld, and mounted. How much does a handheld/mounted sensor package cost? How do you mount a mounted one? What can you mount it on?
Q25: What does "A jumped-in rigger overrides any other control of the drone, including by its Pilot" mean for devices that are not drones, such as vehicles with a Rigger Modification or anything into which a technomancer with Mind over Matter has jumped into? In particular, please clarify all of the following topics:
1) What does “control” mean - does this include control of the drone’s node? Of wireless traffic in and out of the drone? Can the rigger disconnect other people from the drone’s node? Can the rigger load and unload programs in the drone’s node? Please fully clarify this with extensive and fully explained examples of what the rigger can and cannot do.
2) If a technomancer with Mind over Matter is jumped into a commlink, what actions can they take? In particular: turning it off, removing other users, switching wireless off, affecting what information it sends or receives, damaging the commlink itself, and any other things the technomancer can and cannot do and what rolls are involved.
3) What can and can’t a technomancer with Mind over Matter do when jumped into, for example, a building? Can they open doors, set off alarms, stop alarms from going off, control matrix traffic? How does this work? To what extent is this affected by the matrix topology of the building in question? What if all the devices were peripherals of a single node? What if they weren’t?
Q26: Please clarify how Fake Licenses work. What, precisely, do you get a license for? Do you get a “License to carry weapons?” Do you get a “License to carry this particular AK-97?” Do you need two licenses for two AK-97s? What about spells - do you need a separate license for each restricted spell?
Q27: Please clarify exactly how Softweave works. Include examples where more than one armor piece is worn. Useful examples include (assume a Strength 10 character in each case):
1) Softweave Form-fitting Body Armor and not-softweaved Armor Vest.
2) not-softweaved Form Fitting Body Armor and Softweaved Armor Vest.
3) A Vashon Island Steampunk ensemble that totals 7/7 and has one/some/all pieces softweaved.
4) A softweave Urban Explorer jumpsuit.
5) A softweave Urban Explorer jumpsuit with a non-softweaved helmet.
6) A non-softweave Urban Explorer jumpsuit with a Softweaved helmet.
7) A softweaved Urban Explorer jumpsuit with a Softweaved helmet.
Q28: What exactly can and cannot the armor weaves (Delta-Amyloid, for example) from Attitude 160 be applied to? Please clarify any terms you use, ie, what is “Armor Clothing” and what is not “Armor Clothing.” To what extent do the armor weaves stack? Can you put more than one copy of Delta-Amyloid on a single item? Can you put one Delta Amyloid and one Carbon-Boron on a single item? Can you put Delta-Amyloid on one item and Delta-Amyloid on a different item? Can you put Delta-Amyloid on one item and Carbon-Boron on another item?
Q29: Does the GE Vindicator Minigun allow turning it on to spin at firing speed without actually firing? How long can it be left like this? Does it have a minimum rate of fire while spinning?
Q30: Does the Castling ability of a Paladin sprite redirect the jam open effect of Blackout and Black Hammer (SR4A 237 “Black IC attacks”), or only the damage?
Q31: Can a technomancer with Biowires emulate the skillsofts possessed by Tutor sprites?
Q32: Does the Tactical AR Software bonus apply to Indirect Combat Spells?
Q33: At what point, if any, is a vehicle destroyed to the point that it cannot be repaired? Does it need to take Body overflow boxes like a character would? If a vehicle is destroyed, are all of its accessories and modifications destroyed? Can it be used for parts? How does this work?
Q34: Please clarify at what step the armor provided by form-fitting body armor is halved for encumbrance, that is, is it before or after accounting for armor accessories like SecureTech PPP Systems, Helmets, or Shields?
Q35: As written, narrow bursts that are not short apply their DV before checking for armor penetration, but short narrow bursts apply DV after checking for armor penetration. Is this intended?
Q36: When spending edge to reroll a dice roll, do you reroll all the dice, if the test as a whole scored no hits? Or do you reroll all the dice that didn’t score a hit, and keep the dice that did score hits?
Q37: Please clarify if in SR4A chemistry is an Active skill as stated on 126 or a Knowledge skill as stated on 128.
Q38: Parachuting has no rules for using it. Please provide some. For example, how do you determine thresholds for its use? How do parachutes work in Shadowrun?
Q39: How do you add the Flying Propulsion System to a weapon? It requires more slots than any weapon has.
Q40: How many slots do the Powered Slide Mounts on the M4A1 Carbine, the Jianshi, and the Ultimax 150 have?
Q41: Can a Great Form Task spirit (or Guardian spirit) which selected a skill as one of its powers use Endowment to grant it to others?
Q42: As written, the Sustaining penalty for mages penalizes all rolls that are not Drain Resistance or the roll to not lose concentration on a sustained spell. Is this intended? If not, what is the comprehensive list of things to which it does not apply? Same question for the penalty for sustaining Complex Forms, except that as written the CF sustaining penalty does apply to resisting fade.
Q43: The spell Shapechange has the restriction “The subject can only assume the form of a critter whose base Body rating is 2 points greater or less than her own.” Does this mean:
1) Body rating 2 points greater than the magician’s or Body rating 2 points less than the magician’s? For example, a Body 5 magician could turn into a Body 3 or Body 7 critter, but no others.
2) Body rating less than or equal to the magician’s Body rating plus 2? For example, a Body 4 magician could turn into any critter with a Body rating 6 or less, but not one with a Body rating 7 or more.
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If Spell-casting foci can still be used to add to your Drain pool instead of your spell-casting pool.
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If Spell-casting foci can still be used to add to your Drain pool instead of your spell-casting pool.
Not an official rule, but certainly an option. Here is the FAQ:
In SR4, can you withhold dice from a Sorcery or Spellcasting Test and use those dice instead to resist Drain, as you could in SR3?
This rule was dropped in SR4—it was a special case rule that didn’t apply to any other mechanics in the game. If you happen to like it, you can of course continue to use it in your own games as a house rule. The entry for the Spellcasting Focus in SR4 had an incorrect reference to this rule that was corrected in SR4A.
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His question was specifically on Spellcasting foci though. SR3 let you drop dice from the actual test, but in the old SR4 (pre A), spellcasting foci could add dice to either the casting or the drain check. They dropped that line in SR4A though.
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Does flechette ammo actually override the AP value of the weapon it is used in or do they follow the normal ammo rules (SR4A p 323) in the way that the AP and DV are added to the weapons usual AP and DV?
If it is the former that this should be mentioned as an exception in the ammo rules mentioned above.
If it is the latter, then why do all weapons that have a specific AP value listed when firing flechettes (for example Ares Slivergun, Roomsweeper, Remington 990, Mossberg AM-CMDT) do have an AP of +5 in the printed version, even though the usual AP of these weapons is AP -1, and as per rules a.m. they should arrive at an AP of +4?
What is the correct AP of these weapons specifically designed to (only) shoot flechettes, as this is different in the printed version (+5) and the PDF version (+2, with the exception of the Remington Roomsweeper) of the SR4A rulebook?
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His question was specifically on Spellcasting foci though. SR3 let you drop dice from the actual test, but in the old SR4 (pre A), spellcasting foci could add dice to either the casting or the drain check. They dropped that line in SR4A though.
Yep, re-read the last line in the FAQ listed above. It specifically addresses this point.
:)
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Right, but the point is, it should have been errataed. FAQ can't actually change rules. It gives an answer why it didn't come into SR4A (or at least the FAQ writers opinion of why) though. It not getting printed in the SR4A book is errata enough for me, but it should have been noted in the Changes Reference Document as it's a big change to the way the item works. Given the FAQ's track record, and the fact that it's not actually errata (and can't change rules), I can easily see some people's view as to why it needs to be clarified.
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Are free spirits able to learn metamagics when they initiate? Runner's Companion states that they gain a Free Spirit Power Point instead of a metamagic, and Street Magic states that they can learn one or the other. Is it only NPC Free spirits that can learn metamagics? Or is it a mistake in the rules? Runner's Companion is the newer book, was it intended that Free Spirits cannot have metamagics?
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Does a possessed mage with the channeling metamagic use the spirits magic instead of his own for his magic abilities (i.e. sorcery and conjuring) since his mental and special stats will be overwritten? SM,p.101
What about mental stats?
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Does a possessed mage with channeling use the spirits magic instead of his own for his magic abilities (i.e. sorcery and conjuring) since his mental and special stats will be overwritten? SM,p.101
Edit:
I would also like this NOT to be a discussion are for any rules issues listed here - if you want to discuss it, make a thread in the Rules forum.
This is a questions only thread.
I think if an answer could possibly exist, it should be at least posted here so we know whether or not the question is a valid one.
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I think if an answer could possibly exist, it should be at least posted here so we know whether or not the question is a valid one.
There are of course lots of "answers" from lots of different opinions, which eventually will lead to discussions. Of course its not forbidden, but it would be nice to respect the OPs intentions and keep this clean.
I myself could answer any single question in here, but my opinion on the matter is not what this thread is about.
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The intention of this thread is to get official answers, is it not? He posted a quote from the official FAQ.
Because if this thread does nothing but ask questions that you do not expect to get answers to, then there's not much purpose to it.
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for this I gues it is spirit who is using Sorcery, not the mage, and is using his own magic. And as such, he cannot conjure at all, as this skill group is banned for Spirits.
The intention of this thread is to get official answers, is it not? He posted a quote from the official FAQ.
I think Lethe was referring to Sichr's post here.
The point of this thread would be to provide a list of questions that don't have an official answer but need one, so I would argue that while pointing out that the FAQ answers something is relevant, providing an opinion is not and this thread will just get cluttered up with NUH UH IT TOTALLY WORKS LIKE X.
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The intention of this thread is to get official answers, is it not? He posted a quote from the official FAQ.
I think Lethe was referring to Sichr's post here.
Not only Sichr. But as you can see in his link, he totally misunderstood the question. That is what will naturally happen occasionally and that is why there should be only questions here.
Even on the quoted FAQ there followed 3 posts discussing the FAQ and providing nothing but clutter.
If someone believes to have an answer, do it like Sichr and quote it to the rules section!
If you feel funnny... well this thread is messed up already anyway.
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Why does Unwired even in the newest version still using the outdated rules for subscripton list and subscriptions tied to log on accounts intead of the New SR4A meaning of them. Both books should reflect the same thing with what is a subscripton and account privlages. When you combine the two books it whould be easy to misread it as no remote hacking but that does not seam to reflect the intent of SR4A or the hacking skill. (In SR4 hacking was not tied to subscripton, but subscription was a user account.)
Look at Pg 52 and 55 unwired, was never updated still using subscription list rules from SR4.
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Carrying over from the debate on Dumpshock, High-Power Rounds [War! pg. 156] could use clarification.
High-Power Rounds: High-power rounds use a more powerful (and more expensive) propellant than normal rounds. These rounds require a specially chambered modification to the firearm (see High-Power Chambering, above). High-power rounds in flict a –2 dice pool penalty when fired due to excess recoil.
Does the -2 apply to the first shot, since the entry states that the penalty is inflicted when fired, or is this a recoil modifier and thus applies to shots after the first and can be compensated for with rc?
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Why does Unwired even in the newest version still using the outdated rules for subscripton list and subscriptions tied to log on accounts intead of the New SR4A meaning of them. Both books should reflect the same thing with what is a subscripton and account privlages. When you combine the two books it whould be easy to misread it as no remote hacking but that does not seam to reflect the intent of SR4A or the hacking skill. (In SR4 hacking was not tied to subscripton, but subscription was a user account.)
Look at Pg 52 and 55 unwired, was never updated still using subscription list rules from SR4.
I believe that's because those rules are still current, and are in fact not outdated as you suggest. SR20A still has rules for subscription limits based on System.
You can have more than one subscription open at a time. Each
persona is limited to a number of subscriptions equal to twice its
System (e.g., a persona on a System 3 commlink could have up to six
active subscriptions at a time).
By definition, the list of all the nodes you are currently subscribed to would be your subscription list.
The only real discrepancy lies in an implied reference to public access accounts not granting subscriptions in Unwired in a section talking about user access accounts.
The most important privilege normally granted
via user access is one slot on the subscription list.
Other than that one implicit statement, there are no contradictions that I am aware of between the latest version of Unwired and the latest version of SR20A books as far as subscriptions are concerned.
I could be mistaken of course, but I just looked over the pages you referenced and couldn't find any "subscription list errors".
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Carrying over from the debate on Dumpshock, High-Power Rounds [War! pg. 156] could use clarification.
High-Power Rounds: High-power rounds use a more powerful (and more expensive) propellant than normal rounds. These rounds require a specially chambered modification to the firearm (see High-Power Chambering, above). High-power rounds in flict a –2 dice pool penalty when fired due to excess recoil.
Does the -2 apply to the first shot, since the entry states that the penalty is inflicted when fired, or is this a recoil modifier and thus applies to shots after the first and can be compensated for with rc?
The thread was posted on both here and there.
More specifically...
Is the -2 penalty a 'recoil modifier' or a situational modifier?
If it is a 'recoil modifier', then does it apply to every shot?
If it is recoil... then like all other recoil it should be cumulative across an IP and compensable?
If you're after an official answer... you don't lead the question with a doesn't apply to the first shot because it's recoil. That's pure editorializing on your part. The modifier is new and self contained and may have NOTHING TO DO with the BBB recoil rules for SA/BF/FA firing multiple bullets at a time, except also maybe being a 'recoil modifier'.
I agree with the other poster, this isn't the place for arguments or discussion, otherwise the thread ends up merely cluttered... it's a good place to drop questions (preferably neutrally worded like above that don't presuppose other questionable answers). And I full remember the gent from FASA way back in the day who was all too happy to answer 'official' questions... and was derisively nicknamed the human magic 8-ball because the same answer would get answered multiple ways and people would latch onto whichever one they liked. (or ask the question til they got the answer they liked).
I'm seeing a lot of things which are answered in the FAQ or should be obvious (like drain and force on heal). A good 'rule' for a thread like this is... only add questions which haven't already been asked in the rules thread. Something like heal/force would have gotten a clear concise answer from people without any disagreement.
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p188. Banishing. Trying to say this as neutrally as possible.
It says how MUCH drain you suffer for banishing... 2 per success on the spirit. But it NEVER says whether the drain is stun or physical or both depending on magic of the spirit.
Dispelling includes wording to the effect of resist drain as if casting the spell trying to be dispelled... but there is no similar language in banishing.
Non-neutral: Every table I've ever played treats banishing as if you're trying to summon/bind the spirit in reverse... with stun/physical drain based on the magic/force involved.
Prior editions included wording making the drain deadly stun if failed but were radically different in terms of how it was handled. (exclusive contest until either magic ==0 or the spirit force ==0).
The damage might work a lot better as always stun, given the nature of banishing in the middle of battle vs. summoning/binding outside of battle.
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A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.
For purposes of drain for casting a Heal spell, the Force doesn't matter. The Drain will always be DV-2. However, your maximum hits are based off Force, so throwing the force as high as you can isn't a bad idea. Also note that regardless of what number the drain comes out to, it is Stun damage unless you crank the Force of the spell up over your Magic, in which case it is Physical, as normal for overcasting. So if you're a magician with Magic 5, and you Heal someone with 8P damage, if you cast at Force 5, you are limited to 5 hits, and will have to resist 6S damage, but if you cast at Force 8, you can potentially heal all the damage, while you resist 6P drain.
There's something about this that doesn't sit right with me, but I can't put my finger on it.
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A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.
For purposes of drain for casting a Heal spell, the Force doesn't matter. The Drain will always be DV-2. However, your maximum hits are based off Force, so throwing the force as high as you can isn't a bad idea. Also note that regardless of what number the drain comes out to, it is Stun damage unless you crank the Force of the spell up over your Magic, in which case it is Physical, as normal for overcasting. So if you're a magician with Magic 5, and you Heal someone with 8P damage, if you cast at Force 5, you are limited to 5 hits, and will have to resist 6S damage, but if you cast at Force 8, you can potentially heal all the damage, while you resist 6P drain.
There's something about this that doesn't sit right with me, but I can't put my finger on it.
Shouldn't the drain be based on the damage value you actually heal and not the total damage value?
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A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.
For purposes of drain for casting a Heal spell, the Force doesn't matter. The Drain will always be DV-2. However, your maximum hits are based off Force, so throwing the force as high as you can isn't a bad idea. Also note that regardless of what number the drain comes out to, it is Stun damage unless you crank the Force of the spell up over your Magic, in which case it is Physical, as normal for overcasting. So if you're a magician with Magic 5, and you Heal someone with 8P damage, if you cast at Force 5, you are limited to 5 hits, and will have to resist 6S damage, but if you cast at Force 8, you can potentially heal all the damage, while you resist 6P drain.
There's something about this that doesn't sit right with me, but I can't put my finger on it.
Shouldn't the drain be based on the damage value you actually heal and not the total damage value?
IMO, it should be, yeah, but it isn't. :(
The actual quote from the book says "DV: Damage Value - 2". The generally accepted interpretation of that is "total damage value suffered - 2."
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A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell.
For purposes of drain for casting a Heal spell, the Force doesn't matter. The Drain will always be DV-2. However, your maximum hits are based off Force, so throwing the force as high as you can isn't a bad idea. Also note that regardless of what number the drain comes out to, it is Stun damage unless you crank the Force of the spell up over your Magic, in which case it is Physical, as normal for overcasting. So if you're a magician with Magic 5, and you Heal someone with 8P damage, if you cast at Force 5, you are limited to 5 hits, and will have to resist 6S damage, but if you cast at Force 8, you can potentially heal all the damage, while you resist 6P drain.
There's something about this that doesn't sit right with me, but I can't put my finger on it.
Shouldn't the drain be based on the damage value you actually heal and not the total damage value?
IMO, it should be, yeah, but it isn't. :(
The actual quote from the book says "DV: Damage Value - 2". The generally accepted interpretation of that is "total damage value suffered - 2."
I think they're falling back on older versions of SR for this one. In SR1-3, the drain for a heal (or treat) spell was based on the target's damage level.
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Just to carry this over from a discussion in another thread as I've had it come up as a player in another GM's game (And we had quite the dispute over it).
The Entry in Runner's Companion for Shapeshifters states under Magic that Shapeshifters are 'dual-natured' in both forms. It doesn't however list this specifically under the header of 'Powers', yet other dual natured species list the Dual Natured trait under both powers and usually in other descriptive text.
Some GMs are taking this to mean that Shapeshifters suffer all the penalties of being Dual Natured, but don't actually get the benefits of being Dual Natured (Such as not having the -2 penalty to physical actions taken while perceiving in the astral.). It would be nice to see some sort of Errata that clarifies this for the official source material.
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Some GMs are taking this to mean that Shapeshifters suffer all the penalties of being Dual Natured, but don't actually get the benefits of being Dual Natured (Such as not having the -2 penalty to physical actions taken while perceiving in the astral.). It would be nice to see some sort of Errata that clarifies this for the official source material.
That is, in short, one of the biggest loads of bullshit I have ever heard. What you've just described is simply your GM being a massive, scum-sucking asshat of a douchenozzle... and please, feel free let them know I said that.
There are exactly two viable options for interpreting the situation:
1) Fluff takes precedence over a stat-block error, therefore they are Dual Natured. Add Dual Natured to all Shapeshifter Critters and Templates and treat them as any other Dual Natured creature.
2) Stat-block takes precedence over fluff, despite editorial intent, therefore they are not Dual Natured. Treat them as normal, non-astral entities, with no special benefit or penalty relating to the omitted Power.
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and +1 for the LOL.
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+1, and now I know what face-melting looks like.
But as has been discussed elsewhere, that's less "needs errata" and more "my common sense is tingling". I'm not sure if it could be fixed with errats of some text, but it was just brought up elsewhere that, by RC and Unwired, an A.I. can never hit 5 Matrix IPs while meat-hackers can
"Does that seem right to you?"
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"meat hackers"
sounds like a ghoul hobby.
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"meat hackers"
sounds like a ghoul hobby.
Or a nickname for guys in Urban Brawl that favor melee weapons.
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IT IS SAD THAT THIS THREAD BECOME ANOTHER DISCUSSION THREAD, despite its original purpose and some disputes over that. :-[
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=7089.msg126140#msg126140
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haven't you noticed that all threads get sidetracked/hijacked/hacked/derailed??
i would think that catalyst would come up with a GM guide that is both a main rule book and answer guide to most commonly misunderstood or house-ruled rules.
it's not like they don't have a forum that has 99% of those listed somewhere.....
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haven't you noticed that all threads get sidetracked/hijacked/hacked/derailed??
It's one of the laws of the internet.
As the length of a thread increases, the chance of it being derailed approaches 1.
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There are exactly two viable options for interpreting the situation:
1) Fluff takes precedence over a stat-block error, therefore they are Dual Natured. Add Dual Natured to all Shapeshifter Critters and Templates and treat them as any other Dual Natured creature.
2) Stat-block takes precedence over fluff, despite editorial intent, therefore they are not Dual Natured. Treat them as normal, non-astral entities, with no special benefit or penalty relating to the omitted Power.
I don't disagree with this at all, and I personally follow the rule of thumb that #1 takes precedence over a specific section of a stat block unless there's a specific conflict. That said it's clear that not everyone is reading it this way and the GM in question seems to be more of the RAI camp where if it's not capitalized it doesn't mean the specific piece of gear/trait. Thus why I'm hoping some one can just pop it into an official piece of errata for RC. It's a simple enough fix after all and will then bring the entry for Shapeshifters in line with the entries for all the other dual natured races listed in RC.
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Can you please clarify how Bows (and Crossbows) work? Are they SS, requiring a single action to shoot and also a ready weapon action to load before doing so? How does it work with the Adept power Quick Draw or Iaijutsu?
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Can you please clarify how Bows (and Crossbows) work? Are they SS, requiring a single action to shoot and also a ready weapon action to load before doing so? How does it work with the Adept power Quick Draw or Iaijutsu?
Essentially, since they're not Firearms, they don't actually get a Rate of Fire. That means you can fire them as often as you have actions and ammo... essentially making them Semi-Auto, not Single Shot.
If you use Iaijutsu or Quick Draw on a Bow you'd have to make a Quick Draw test before each attack, since you have to ready another arrow before each shot.
If you GM is really nice, he/she might let you start with a knocked arrow, then roll Quick Draw aftter you shoot to see if you can reload on that same action.
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Right, but the point is, it should have been errataed. FAQ can't actually change rules. It gives an answer why it didn't come into SR4A (or at least the FAQ writers opinion of why) though. It not getting printed in the SR4A book is errata enough for me, but it should have been noted in the Changes Reference Document as it's a big change to the way the item works. Given the FAQ's track record, and the fact that it's not actually errata (and can't change rules), I can easily see some people's view as to why it needs to be clarified.
In regards to spellcasting foci no longer letting you use their dice to soak Drain; this was changed in an errata prior to SR4A, which is why it did not show up in the Changes Reference Document.
To clarify an earlier question that was raised about initiative boosters - does the suprathyroid gland count as an initiative booster (since it raises Reaction as well as three other Physical Attributes) or not? If it does, what happens when it is combined with other initiative enhancers - does the Reaction boost from the suprathyroid gland not count, or is the entire combination completely unworkable?
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Can a shapechanging magician shift into a creature with 2 higher body, and then repeat the process? Is the shapechange spell referring to natural or augmented body?
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Can a shapechanging magician shift into a creature with 2 higher body, and then repeat the process? Is the shapechange spell referring to natural or augmented body?
It's my understanding that the shapechange spell refers to the character's actual Body score (so no change, repeat, change, repeat, Super Ginormous Whale). For the natural vs. augmented side of things I, personally, would rule that permanently augmented Body is fine (Suprathyroid Gland yes, Adept's Improved Body yes, but a Body bonus from a combat drug or something, no)...but that's just me, personally.
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.but that's just me, personally.
But You're not alone ;) :)
He who dances a Duet
Medicineman