Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Sharzak on <05-03-12/0311:24>
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I'm picking up the core Rulebook and want to start a game of shadow run with a group of friends. I'll be the GM. We are all inexperienced when it comes to tabletop gaming ( I sat in on a session of old world of darkness and made a character but that's it) but want to try to make a go of it.
What the easiest way to get people familiar with the derails of the setting? They know it's cyberpunk fantasy, but they don't know that money is handed out on credsticks, for example. What do I need to know as a GM to ensure fun is had by all? What im worried about is one particular player ruining the experience for everyone by not taking it seriously. Any other general advice would be great.
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The SR4 core rulebook does a great job at laying out the setting, so having everyone read just that is probably enough. Runner's Companion also makes a great *duh* companion book and lays down some good stuff for people not sure what to make of a team.
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Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).
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Yeah, the Runner's Toolkit is definitely something to pick up. The Sixth World Almanac might also be something to grab.
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Hey, welcome to tabletop gaming, and enjoy it. You are diving into the deep end taking on the GMing, but it is good to see that you are really taking it seriously, even so far as to realize that you might have a problem player that might take the whole group down.
While everyone here is suggesting more rulebooks, I am going to take a different approach. The game can be run with just the core rulebook, and I would strongly suggest is that you ask your players to take on one of the character templates from that book rather than try and build their own characters, this will keep things on a relatively even keel, at least for the first few sessions until everyone (including you) are confident with the rules and the setting.
As far as the setting goes, what I would do is just have the players read some of the background material in the book, maybe photocopy a few pages like the history and some of the stories. I would also suggest that you go ahead and use some of the free materials available on the main page like Food Fight and the Missions to get you feet wet before diving in.
I wouldn't worry to much about details like credsticks, you can tweak that with gentle nudges in game. ("Okay, so we go and look for a job....uhhh" "So are you going to call one of your fixer contacts, or try one of the 'runner bars' and see if someone is looking for a team?")
The bigger thing is to remember that everyone is new and you will make some mistakes, do your best to be fair and fix things when this happens but don't let a session get bogged down with you searching a rulebook for a particular point, do that between sessions, and let your players know the next time. ("Hey guys, I looked it up, and I am pretty sure this concealabilty rating thing means Joe's troll can't walk into the Lone Star's HQ with an assault cannon hidden under his trenchcoat, so we are gonna have to say he left it in the car, we will assume that cop just got really unlucky when Joe shot him with his pistol.")
If someone is not taking the game as seriously as the rest, and seems to be actively trying to ruin it for the group, call him/her out and find out what the deal is. If they won't fix it, don't invite them next time.
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Hey, welcome to tabletop gaming, and enjoy it. You are diving into the deep end taking on the GMing, but it is good to see that you are really taking it seriously, even so far as to realize that you might have a problem player that might take the whole group down.
While everyone here is suggesting more rulebooks, I am going to take a different approach. The game can be run with just the core rulebook, and I would strongly suggest is that you ask your players to take on one of the character templates from that book rather than try and build their own characters, this will keep things on a relatively even keel, at least for the first few sessions until everyone (including you) are confident with the rules and the setting.
As far as the setting goes, what I would do is just have the players read some of the background material in the book, maybe photocopy a few pages like the history and some of the stories. I would also suggest that you go ahead and use some of the free materials available on the main page like Food Fight and the Missions to get you feet wet before diving in.
I wouldn't worry to much about details like credsticks, you can tweak that with gentle nudges in game. ("Okay, so we go and look for a job....uhhh" "So are you going to call one of your fixer contacts, or try one of the 'runner bars' and see if someone is looking for a team?")
The bigger thing is to remember that everyone is new and you will make some mistakes, do your best to be fair and fix things when this happens but don't let a session get bogged down with you searching a rulebook for a particular point, do that between sessions, and let your players know the next time. ("Hey guys, I looked it up, and I am pretty sure this concealabilty rating thing means Joe's troll can't walk into the Lone Star's HQ with an assault cannon hidden under his trenchcoat, so we are gonna have to say he left it in the car, we will assume that cop just got really unlucky when Joe shot him with his pistol.")
If someone is not taking the game as seriously as the rest, and seems to be actively trying to ruin it for the group, call him/her out and find out what the deal is. If they won't fix it, don't invite them next time.
Sure, the game can be run with just the core book, but the fewer limitations there are, the more fun the game will be. Conversely, the more you limit availability, BP and source books, the more tedious and boring the game becomes.
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Being very new, I second starting slow. SR is very complex and for a newer group, limiting what everyone has to study helps keep things easy. Try downloading the Quick Start rules, hand out the templates, and run the module for everyone to get down the basics (including you).
Next, let them make some characters with the main book and run a mini-campaign of some kind. If you aren't comfortable making you own runs up yet, you can always use Shadowrun Missions from Season Two (http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/downloads-season-2/) which are available for free.
As you're running the mini-campaign, get a feel for what the characters are wanting to play and start picking up books for those roles. (Arsenal helps everyone a bit, Unwired helps Hackers/Technomancers, Street Magic helps Adepts/Mages, Augmentation helps everyone with a possible exception of mages).
This will help you get comfortable with the setting and won't cause there to be a huge waste if you don't end up liking the game that much (not every group likes the complexity/simplicity of it).
As for the setting. Work you players in slowly to it. The more interested they are, the easier it will be, but the more you try to force it, the more it will feel like work.
Sure, the game can be run with just the core book, but the fewer limitations there are, the more fun the game will be. Conversely, the more you limit availability, BP and source books, the more tedious and boring the game becomes.
For some players maybe. Many players, especially one new to the system, doubly so for those new to RPGs in general, have a much easier time (and therefore more fun) with less choices. It lets them take in things easier. Of course you can say that's just silly talk, but you're not exactly a new player from what I've seen and I've run the game for several recently that actually asked for restrictions in a new game to make things easier to learn.
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I am going to back up Crossbow and Crash here. Its questionable to buy a bunch more books now when it may turn out your group doesn't like it (Shadowrun is great, but its not for everyone). In addition, you do not want to overwhelm yourself and your players with new rules and choices you don't understand. The core book is a sufficient purchase to get into the game. If you are all fresh to tabletop gaming, that will already have a massive amount of material to digest.
Take Crash's advice and also pick up some of the free materials designed to help you get started. As a new GM, prepared content will make your job much simpler since you are easing into the system as well. They should also do a good job of introducing the setting for your players.
Oh, and have fun. Never let rules get in the way of good fun.
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I'm not convinced it will be in my best interest or the best interest of the group for me to go out and buy a bunch of book--it's a lot of stuff to learn for all of us. I don't think the players will necessarily feel limited because they won't know what they're missing.
A couple people are excited and have ideas for characters already, so I'm worried about limiting the campaign. Would it be a bad idea for the first couple of sessions to say, look guys, we're all new to this so pick a character template for now and we'll focus on making characters after an adventure so we all have the hang of it? That season 2 mission link is going to be hugely helpful I can tell already, so thanks very much.
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The earlier runs in that season are pretty much designed for your archetype power characters, so they work really well for new and inexperienced players.
The Quick Start Rules (http://www.shadowrun4.com/wp-content/uploads/Downloads/Shadowrun%20Quick-Start%20Rules.pdf) have some archetypes in it (only 4) and the archetypes in the core book should provide enough variety for a brief exposure. I recommend letting players make minor tweaks (if they want to use an SMG instead of an AR or an Axe instead of a katana for instance) just for style without sweating the details too much if you hand out archetypes though.
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I agree also that the core rule book is a good starting point, but I would recommend getting the runners toolkit also. There are a couple of reasons for this.
1) the help sheets will facilitate everyone learning the steps to combat, spell casting the matrix etc.
2) the anatomy of a run is a great tool for learning rules since it gives what happened in character and the rules/rolls that caused it side by side.
3) a good basic run to use to help everyone learn the rules (and not make the GM make up an adventure)
4) it has a set of compiled tables that are good for looking up things
5) some good basic maps, contacts, adventure seeds, and sprawl sites.
Just my two nuyen worth hope it helps
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I'd recomend letting them play the base in the book, AND on top of that keep the karma they earn with those characters for when they do actually make their real characters, so it doens't feel like they "wasted" any of that time. :D
Welcome to table top gaming, i hope you enjoy your stay!
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Zilfer makes a good point. In the campaign I am running I let the players adjust their characters for the first several runs also so if they missed something or didn't use something they had bought they didn't feel cheated. Allowing the karma to be moved over to a new character is a good thing too.
Also the runners toolkit has a great GM screen which I forgot to mention in my earlier post (the irony is it is the part of the toolkit I use the most as an experienced GM)
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^I second about that GM screen if you will be playing more than once. I ordered the Runner's toolkit JUST for that fact and i'll be able to give the other's a handout from it called the Anatomy of Shadowrun which lays out an advanture and all the dice rolls behind it. :D
Infact i'm waiting impatiently to go home, i only have 3 hours and i got a text that it's already been deleivered to my house.... oh how work doth make me wait... xD
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I'm not convinced it will be in my best interest or the best interest of the group for me to go out and buy a bunch of book--it's a lot of stuff to learn for all of us. I don't think the players will necessarily feel limited because they won't know what they're missing.
A couple people are excited and have ideas for characters already, so I'm worried about limiting the campaign. Would it be a bad idea for the first couple of sessions to say, look guys, we're all new to this so pick a character template for now and we'll focus on making characters after an adventure so we all have the hang of it? That season 2 mission link is going to be hugely helpful I can tell already, so thanks very much.
The reason is, that with the limits of only what's in the core book, the chances of being able to actually build a character you can enjoy is slim and none (that goes for any game).
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I disagree before i knew there were other books, i had plenty enjoyment of building the character and felt overwhelmed by the amount of choices i had ahead of me. I enjoy shadowrun for it's character reaction so much that it's a hobbie of mine just to build random characters from my Astral Hazing + Arcane Arrester guy named "Mageslayer" to my troll adept named "bullet stopper" (20 phys track 15 stun, 12 body, and like 25 armor) xD to my Elf named "twitch". (15 agi but 1 initiative pass)
:D but you don't need more than the core book to start out, i agree if you continue to play however you should expand your collection.
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I disagree before i knew there were other books, i had plenty enjoyment of building the character and felt overwhelmed by the amount of choices i had ahead of me. I enjoy shadowrun for it's character reaction so much that it's a hobbie of mine just to build random characters from my Astral Hazing + Arcane Arrester guy named "Mageslayer" to my troll adept named "bullet stopper" (20 phys track 15 stun, 12 body, and like 25 armor) xD to my Elf named "twitch". (15 agi but 1 initiative pass)
:D but you don't need more than the core book to start out, i agree if you continue to play however you should expand your collection.
I couldn't enjoy the edition until the further books came out. The ridiculously limited amount of options just killed enjoyment to the point that I had to stick with third until Arsenal and Augmentation came out (minimum).
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OK, I'm reading through the rulebook now and already the most burning question is--how does one handle the skills and abilities that take extended periods of time? Installing a weapon upgrade, or spending a week searching for a weapon with a bad Availability rating, or fixing up a motorcycle all take hours or potentially days. What do the other PC's do during this time? Are there any "upkeep" costs I should levy to the PC's finances, e.g., food, rent, etc.?
I haven't read it cover to cover yet so if it's in the book I'm terribly sorry, just wanted some opinions on how to get around this.
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The lifestyle the character chooses is the cost they pay in monthly upkeep for things like rent, food etc.
For tests that take hours or days the way I do it is I find out what everyone is doing then I have them make their extended rolls to see how long it takes. While this is happening the other players do what they want.
In my current game we meet once a month so the between runs things like finding a weapon, doing upgrades, etc. we do online and I do the rolls using invisible castles. It was via email until one of the players set up a website that we use to do it now. I also post news flashes, background info, and rules interpretations. The players each have the option of having posting a run summary or questions if they want also.
Hope this helps you out and welcome to the game
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Hours or days really aren't that hard to fill. Keep in mind *most* runners aren't machines who pull runs back to back endlessly. Short stuff can be going out to lunch or a club/bar for a few hours. Longer (weekish) can be chalked up to chilling out in general, since even runners probably have something resembling a life, even if it's just shooting people in vr instead of meatspace.
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Passing time sounds like it's well implemented upon further reading. I posted before I read what I should have, I apologize. I picked up the Runner's Toolkit (the gamemaster's screen is horny as hell) and I think I can nudge my playgroup enough to do the On The Run mission the way it "should" be--a few of my players are the type where if I have an NPC say "you don't even know what's on that thing, hand it over" they'll make it their life's work to find out ASAP.
What I want to do is integrate this with the Food Fight mission from the QSR. I'll have them all in the Shack together, strangers to one another or in pairs when the attempted hit goes down. They'll dispatch the hit squad and a few days later get a call--all of a sudden everyone wants to talk to the elite team of runners that took out those hitmen with ease. The security footage from the Stuffer Shack was all over the trids that weekend, and all of a sudden these down on their luck runners are in high demand--especially since there's a sudden shortage of low rent hitmen. Smiley the Fixer knows a couple of them and is going to cash in by forming them into the team everyone thinks they are, and On the Run will start.
What do you guys think? Is this a legitimate way of getting things started or is it too railroady? Would you bat an eye if a GM did this in one of your games? I think the exploding convenience store would be a great set piece to introduce the new guys to the burny world that is Shadowrun.
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Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).
I cannot disagree with this more, in both the suggestion being made and the reasons given for it.
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Yeah buying all that right now is completely off the table. I'm already worried about having spent $100 on something that could completely flop.
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Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).
I cannot disagree with this more, in both the suggestion being made and the reasons given for it.
Seconded.
Increased or unlimited choices often leads to a decrease in happiness and/or welfare.
Start with the base rules. RPGs are inherently complex, and SR4 is one of the most complex.
The dark secret of table-top RPGs is this: The rules are all just smoke and mirrors. The STORY is what is important. The dice and stacks of paper and rulebooks are all there to prevent the chaos of the old cops-and-robbers "I got you! No you didn't!"...but in truth, that's really the GM wearing the mantle of the books and dice to impart an air of impartiality.
My first gig as a GM was as a kid in elementary school. No dice, no rules, no paper, just interactive storytelling with the GM as adjudicator. Shadowrun is all about the setting, and the rules give form and substance to it - but never let the rules get in the way of having fun. Start small, and build.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Welcome to table top roleplaying!
I agree that all you need to start is the main rulebook. Everything you need is there to start with and to get a grasp of what is going on in the world.
I would sugest (like many others) that first you find out what your players want in a game so you can supply the most enjoymetn to them. Do they want lots of action/combat? Do they want lots of mystery and intrige? From there, either use the pre-gen characters that fits what they want to do, or guide them through the creation steps to make their own cahracters to fit what they want.
Make sure you have a fare understanding of the more complex rules your players may be using. Meaning, if no one is going to be playing a TM or hacker, gloss over the matrix section for now. But if they are focusing on combat characters (or mage chracters) make usr eyou understand the how combat/magic works.
Be prepared to wing alot of things when you start, after all your new! just make a note of it, and look up what to do later then explain it to the group ("Hey guys, when Ted threw that grenade last week, it actually doesn't just land at the badguys feet, it lands 2d6 meters away, with every success bringing it 1 metter closer to the target...)
But remember the NUMBER ONE rule. and that's HAVE FUN!
To do that, sometimes you have to "cheat".... so cheat :D As long as everyone is enjoying themselves, it's ok. Don't worry about playing "by all the rules" until both you and your players are comfortable. As your comfort level grows, you can add in more of the complex and confusing rules as you go.
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^ I'll second the "have fun" part, cheesy as it may sound :)
Also wanted to say that I heavily agree on the "cheat" thing (as a GM only!!!). If in the first encounter they have in combat, the CorpSec wageslave guard accidentally rolls 8 hits on his 8 dice, resulting in instant death for one of the players, ignore it and just let it be a grazing hit!
I'll also expand on the "you must cheat" option by advising you to sometimes make up rules on the spot -even if "I know they're somewhere in the rulebook, I'm sure I read something a lot like this, let me just get the book and look it up for half an hour!".
IMO, there's few things that'll do more damage to a game than pausing every 5 minutes to spend the next half hour looking for a rule. So instead, write down what it was that raised a question, but for the moment, just wing it and come up with something that's quick and good enough for the moment.
(example: Joe, wielding a Ruger Warhawk Heavy Revolver, wants to shoot Bubba, who's hiding behind a hardwood desk.
Being new to the game, it might be quite hard to immediately come up with the right modifiers to the shot (can't see, prone, range, etc) and then how to apply all of this to the barrier rules, as well as looking up a armor&structure rating for the desk.
Don't grab your books! For now, unless the player has looked up the rules for this action in advance and has them at hand, just say "Joe can shoot at -5 dice because he can't see his target and it's prone. It could have been lower, but Bubba's almost as large as the desk making it less hard to hit him. The wood of the desk will add 6 dice to Bubba's armor."
It's probably not exactly how it should go by the rules, but it's not unreasonable either and everyone at the table will be happy that they don't have to wait 15 minutes for one bullet.)
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Passing time sounds like it's well implemented upon further reading. I posted before I read what I should have, I apologize. I picked up the Runner's Toolkit (the gamemaster's screen is horny as hell) and I think I can nudge my playgroup enough to do the On The Run mission the way it "should" be--a few of my players are the type where if I have an NPC say "you don't even know what's on that thing, hand it over" they'll make it their life's work to find out ASAP.
What I want to do is integrate this with the Food Fight mission from the QSR. I'll have them all in the Shack together, strangers to one another or in pairs when the attempted hit goes down. They'll dispatch the hit squad and a few days later get a call--all of a sudden everyone wants to talk to the elite team of runners that took out those hitmen with ease. The security footage from the Stuffer Shack was all over the trids that weekend, and all of a sudden these down on their luck runners are in high demand--especially since there's a sudden shortage of low rent hitmen. Smiley the Fixer knows a couple of them and is going to cash in by forming them into the team everyone thinks they are, and On the Run will start.
What do you guys think? Is this a legitimate way of getting things started or is it too railroady? Would you bat an eye if a GM did this in one of your games? I think the exploding convenience store would be a great set piece to introduce the new guys to the burny world that is Shadowrun.
I personally think you are going to have a great time, Food Fight has been around forever and, when it goes down the way it is intended to, always produces memories. I can still remember the "Neon Samurai" from an early edition decapitate himself with his own mono-whip and showering the teams decker/rigger with blood and goop from the shelves. He was completely unable to move for the rest of the fight and came out so badly slimed that he got a new streetname 'Horror Show'. (had nothing to do with his driving, really! :) )
Anyway, like I said before, I like the fact that you are prepared. Players love to throw curve balls, and the holes some modules get written with, it seems like the express purpose is making a GM's life interesting.
Let the ones who have something in mind already go ahead and start building, but have the start playing a template for the moment, you can swap them in once they are completely done and you have checked them out. You will want to do that, you will be amazed out how many character sheets get built early on that forget basics: Ammo for the 50 guns they have, vehicles or lifestyle choices that don't match ('So you a squatter with a 50,000 nuyen car? That may not work out well.), forgetting fake IDs or commlinks, that kinda stuff. The templates will give you and them time to iron out kinks.
Anyway, keep asking questions, even the dumb ones, there are plenty of folks here willing to help.
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^ I'll second the "have fun" part, cheesy as it may sound :)
Also wanted to say that I heavily agree on the "cheat" thing (as a GM only!!!). If in the first encounter they have in combat, the CorpSec wageslave guard accidentally rolls 8 hits on his 8 dice, resulting in instant death for one of the players, ignore it and just let it be a grazing hit!
While I agree with almost everything Xzylvador said, I am...again...a little less benevolent.
[DISCLAIMER: The following is intended for GM's ONLY. Players should not look behind the curtain. Really. You can't unlook.]
I am a huge advocate of the Story driving everything. The dice are a handy tool - they allow for easy resolution of common tasks, and (most importantly) they convey a sense of impartiality. 99% of the time, the dice should be obeyed...but there's that 1% where the dice would make the story less fun, or even break it. In those cases, it is the GM's responsibility to nudge things. Just a tap - nothing heavy handed, nothing that could be (for the love of all that is Holy) observed. The INSTANT the players realize you are manipulating things behind the screen, and that the dice are not absolute, your game loses something.
Because of this, the above scenario is the perfect time to let the dice fall where they may. In these early sessions, the player has not invested so much into their character. The characters haven't built up lots of karma, Contacts, etc. It is the perfect time to gank one of them, as an example to the others.
Yes, you heard me. Kill a PC. Boom. Dead.
If they screw up or things simply break bad and the dice snuff one of their little weefle Runner lives, you have established two very important things: A) that you will NOT nudge the dice to save a character's life, and B) you have the stones to build a situation where the character's lives are in real jeopardy.
That poor dead bastard will make the falling D6 resound like the Bells of Doom.
So, later on, down the road, when your players have lovingly crafted their PCs into deranged little mirrors of their damaged souls, and you DO nudge the dice to save one of them when things simply go terribly, horribly wrong (because we all know that a GM would NEVER screw up and throw more at the players than they could handle...right? Heh) then no one would ever suspect it. After all, you shot poor Newbie Marvin in the face, back in the day, didn't you, you cold-hearted slave of Fate?
This is important to establish, right out of the gate. In the first run or two, if no player character is star-crossed enough to stumble into the Reaper's cold and bony embrace, I'd definitely ice an NPC. Preferably a very likable one. I don't mean the "seasoned old mentor" NPC...I mean the one that you threw into the party to balance things out and that your players suspect you're playing as a favorite NPC (or "GM Player Character" (even typing the phrase makes me cringe)). Allow the NPC enough of a role in the party, and have enough backstory and actual personality that he doesn't come off as just a redshirt. A redshirt dying doesn't put the existential dread of their own mortality into anyone...it's their function to die.
But if an NPC that's a friend or even "one of the party" gets blitzed (and preferably, they get deadified in as random and non-dramatically as possible (you wouldn't want them thinking that Gentleman Dan the NPC Badass got offed by The Plot...The Plot is what saves PCs...he MUST be killed by the Dice!)) the players start to realize that the world is a dangerous place. (Not as much as if you're lucky enough to have a PC volunteer to be your perfect object lesson, but it still gets the point across. *Grin*)
-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate
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Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).
I would have to disagree. Setting some limits during character creation is a good thing especially when you are new to a system. It creates less of a hassle as the neophyte GM tries to balance out his game. Personally I would just run with the main book for now until you are comfortable with it then start adding in the other source books. It will minimize the chance that you get pants during your first couple of games.
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<Stuff I posted>
While I agree with almost everything Xzylvador said, I am...again...a little less benevolent.
<Lots of very good stuff that I snip because it's right up there ^^.
If it were anything but a -totally- newbie group, I would agree that being killed by the first rent-a-cop guard just to set an example and to establish the "this is a dangerous world, not some DnD fairy fantasy" feeling.
But for a first-in-a-lifetime experience to roleplaying, I don't think I'd have the guts to kill the character... Wound, maim, cripple, sure! Any previous experience they'd be dead too.
But "Welcome to the game, let's have some fun! You lose initiative, roll 4 dice to defend... Nope, you're dead, please make a new character." might give a first impression that's slightly too bad, even for a game with as much danger to the PC as SR. Save it for the second encounter ;)
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I'd agree with the suggestion to run some with just the base book while everyone gets a chance to learn the system. However, you probably should use Unwired - not necessarily the character options, but the rules content. The reason is that Unwired changes the way the world actually works in some very important fundamental ways* (more specifically, it fills in a bunch of holes in the rules). Not using the Unwired rules to start basically means you'll have to learn the Matrix rules twice, and learning them once is already a pain in the neck because they're such a horrible, poorly edited mess.
*Example: SR4A just does not explain what effect an Alert being sounded against a hacker has on their account privileges. It also doesn't tell you what level of access gets you what [in particular, it doesn't mention that you need at least User to be able to Subscribe].
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^ While true, this is another place where just winging it can do the job just as good, if not better(*).
To use your example:
A GM doesn't have to know (or care) what Unwired says about account privileges or what a raised alarm does on your average node. He can decide that whoever set up the node the Hacker's trying to get into was set up completely differently: maybe Standard Users do have access to watch security cameras (but not mess with their settings) and Security Accounts can create temporary new accounts up to Security Level. And maybe the guy who set up the network decided that an alarm automatically forces the system to reboot.
(*: Better because different nodes will behave differently, depending on how they were set up. It's not just "generic Shiawase Home System #6A97B297". If you're hacking into Node: "#St@y +3h F|2@(|< 0u+!one!!11!", you bet it'll have different security settings than the book says.)
Base book and a good imagination is good enough. If I personally were to suggest any books, it'd be Runner's Companion actually. It may not add the bazillion of combat options Arsenal adds, the cool Street-Sam stuff from Augmentation or the advanced magic options from Street Magic, but what it does offer is a lot of flavor for your players to make and play the character they want. You want your character to have a day job, anger management issues and wife & kids at home waiting for supper, or want it to be a pixie, you want Runner's Companion!
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<Stuff I posted>
While I agree with almost everything Xzylvador said, I am...again...a little less benevolent.
<Lots of very good stuff that I snip because it's right up there ^^.
If it were anything but a -totally- newbie group, I would agree that being killed by the first rent-a-cop guard just to set an example and to establish the "this is a dangerous world, not some DnD fairy fantasy" feeling.
But for a first-in-a-lifetime experience to roleplaying, I don't think I'd have the guts to kill the character... Wound, maim, cripple, sure! Any previous experience they'd be dead too.
But "Welcome to the game, let's have some fun! You lose initiative, roll 4 dice to defend... Nope, you're dead, please make a new character." might give a first impression that's slightly too bad, even for a game with as much danger to the PC as SR. Save it for the second encounter ;)
True...true.
It's been awhile since I initiated a total novice, and you're absolutely right.
Spare the PCs. Shoot the hostage.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I'm gonna stand by the SR4 Anniversary and Runner's Toolkit suggestions, myself. I'm a big fan of "core only" games for folks who are new to any game (but especially if they're new to ALL games)...but Runner's Toolkit is also the perfect second-thing-to-buy, because the OP and his group are exactly the sort of folks it's aimed at. It's designed to help new players and GMs, so it's right up their alley to help out.
I mean, sure. I'm probably supposed to talk people into buying more stuff, especially stuff I wrote, but you know what? I'd rather they travel light, so to speak, learn the ropes, sling some dice, and have fun with the game. If they start slow and simple, learn the basics, and fall in love with Shadowrun, they'll buy more stuff down the line, anyways. If we pressure 'em into buying a ton of stuff they don't need right now, get 'em overwhelmed, and they feel like gaming is work instead of play? We're just gonna be another step closer to killing the game and the hobby, which also is bad business.
So, heck with it. Yeah. Core book, and RT for the hand-outs, flashcards, GM screen, and stuff. Have fun. Tell awesome stories. That's all you need.
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^for that +1.
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I'm gonna stand by the SR4 Anniversary and Runner's Toolkit suggestions, myself. I'm a big fan of "core only" games for folks who are new to any game (but especially if they're new to ALL games)...but Runner's Toolkit is also the perfect second-thing-to-buy, because the OP and his group are exactly the sort of folks it's aimed at. It's designed to help new players and GMs, so it's right up their alley to help out.
I mean, sure. I'm probably supposed to talk people into buying more stuff, especially stuff I wrote, but you know what? I'd rather they travel light, so to speak, learn the ropes, sling some dice, and have fun with the game. If they start slow and simple, learn the basics, and fall in love with Shadowrun, they'll buy more stuff down the line, anyways. If we pressure 'em into buying a ton of stuff they don't need right now, get 'em overwhelmed, and they feel like gaming is work instead of play? We're just gonna be another step closer to killing the game and the hobby, which also is bad business.
So, heck with it. Yeah. Core book, and RT for the hand-outs, flashcards, GM screen, and stuff. Have fun. Tell awesome stories. That's all you need.
I agree the RT is actually a really good investment no matter what level of GM you are.
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We spent probably five hours making characters and going over the lore the other night, and we're not even done. Long story aside, we don't have a hacker or a rigger--we have two physical badasses (a troll with a shotgun and a cyberarmed commando) and two mages (a sneaky utility mage and a combat mage.)
How will this affect our game? How can I alleviate at least a little of the negative effects?
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Really for a beginning group that isn't a terrible mix, and for introducing the game as the GM it is actually benifical. What you do is have them hire out all of the hacking/matrix footwork which benifits you as a new GM in a couple of ways.
1. You don't have to sink time into learning the matrix stuff right off the bat.
2. If they get bogged down you can have the hacker find them some info to give them a push in the right direction again.
3. You can set up plot by having the hacker fail when it helps the plot.
4. You can slowly introduce more matrix stuff as the hacker lets the others in the party know about stuff.
5. You can kill the hacker with intrusion countermeasures if they hit a hard facility without having to worry about a PC in order to advance the plot.
6. You can rotate hackers they get in touch with having each specialized in a certain aspect of the matrix, and this again can be used to advance the plot
Not having a rigger isn't that big of a deal either. Most of the groups I've run with didn't have a true rigger. With only four players this is often the role left out. You have plenty of muscle and magic power it sounds like and these are the two biggest needs to survive in Shadowrun. A good hacker is useful, but easily hired out too.
Hope this helps
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I am less worried about lack of tech than I am you not mentioning whether or not there is a Face type among them, it really is an important aspect of a good team, though it is a subtle one. Also, I hope they weren't so busy packing in bullets and foci that no one bought any contacts.
As for the addressed lack, if your game is successful, it will be an easy niche for a new player to slide into, or something fresh for one of the others to do if something awful happens.
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Cyberarm Sam is gonna be the face of the group it seems. He's getting the social pheromone upgrade and has a few skill points in the relevant areas. Great points on the lack of a hacker. I plan on having it bite them in the ass but it will make life easy on me. I'd rather do it as an invisible eye in the sky, voice in the earpiece type of thing. I also am planning on giving them a free fixer contact if they choose to take it. It'll be the guy who organizes the team so it'll help as far as plot goes.
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There's nothing wrong with the GM handling some of the tech stuff with a healthy dose of handwavium -- a reclusive hacker buddy/NPC, Mr. Johnson supplying the team with a passcode or maglock passkey they'll need, etc, etc. If no one wants to play one, no one wants to play one. It ain't the end of the world!
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There's nothing wrong with the GM handling some of the tech stuff with a healthy dose of handwavium -- a reclusive hacker buddy/NPC, Mr. Johnson supplying the team with a passcode or maglock passkey they'll need, etc, etc. If no one wants to play one, no one wants to play one. It ain't the end of the world!
Gotta agree here. The matrix and hackers/TMs are not characters new players usually choose. That's ok, spend some time to make a hacker NPC for the party, it will help you with character creation rules and help build your knowledge of the game.
But remember, NPCs should always play second fiddle to the PCs, the NPC us there to support them, not the other way around.
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Also with the current characters you can stress the magical aspect of Shadowrun. Put them into a situation where they are dealing with mystical threats rather than technological. Get you PCs into the magical phenomenon investigation game.
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Perfect. I'm glad this will end up making life easier for me.
The next big decision I've got to make is where to set the campaign. Seattle or Denver is what I'm looking at right now. I personally want to do Denver since there are a wealth of missions for that city but the group would rather do Seattle. I'd like to be accomodating to their desires, is there a list of Seattle missions like the ones for Denver? I'm not comfortable writing my own yet.
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Missions Season 4 (the current ones) are set in Seattle. They are available from drivethrurpg for like 4.95 each I think it is, and there are 7 or 8 now released and a couple more due soon.
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With a little bit of work, most of the Denver Missions can probably have the serial numbers filed off and be transplanted to Seattle with minimal fuss. You'll need to change some of the names, and some of the plot points won't make sense, but the story ideas should be solid. I just relocated The Grab and Chasing The Dragon to Seattle without much effort* and the players are really enjoying the latter. For now ;)
*: although I previously ran them in Denver for another group, so perhaps I was advantaged there.
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Just wanted to chime in and say that this discussion has been great for me, too. I've done my share of pen & paper role playing, but it's been a *long* time since I've run a game and I've never played Shadowrun. A series of events led me to suddenly wanting to run a Shadowrun game and it's a bit overwhelming for the newbie :) My wife actually has the original 2nd edition core book, but we never really used it as we tended to play a frankensteined game that we made up to fit our story and just borrowed rules from Cyberpunk2020 and some of the White Wolf games. Sheesh that was 15+ years ago :(
Great info in this thread - thanks everyone and to the OP for getting it rolling!
EDIT: oh and first post :P
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We spent probably five hours making characters and going over the lore the other night, and we're not even done.
That is a really good idea! 2 of the 6 people I have running in Food Fight this weekend are experienced with SR. The others are brand new and will be using some of the new archetypes (Umaro you rock!!!) so there will be no need for character building. But I think maybe an hour spent going over the history and setting is a very good idea.
I'm doing the core rule book and the Tool Kit for a while. At least until July. Once everyone is comfortable with the mechanics and the feel of the game then we'll start cracking the other books open.
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Also try looking at this (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=294.msg4276#msg4276) thread, there is some really good advice in there.
It was originally designed for new GM's, but I feel that everyone could benefit from reading the tips in there every now and then.
I know I go back through any and all "tips" threads I can find and read them all, even if I have already read them before.
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Also try looking at this (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=294.msg5728#msg5728) thread, there is some really good advice in there.
It was originally designed for new GM's, but I feel that everyone could benefit from reading the tips in there every now and then.
I know I go back through any and all "tips" threads I can find and read them all, even if I have already read them before.
That is a great write up!! One can never have too many tips. Very helpful stuff!