[Zilfer]

I disagree before i knew there were other books, i had plenty enjoyment of building the character and felt overwhelmed by the amount of choices i had ahead of me. I enjoy shadowrun for it's character reaction so much that it's a hobbie of mine just to build random characters from my Astral Hazing + Arcane Arrester guy named "Mageslayer" to my troll adept named "bullet stopper" (20 phys track 15 stun, 12 body, and like 25 armor) xD to my Elf named "twitch". (15 agi but 1 initiative pass)

but you don't need more than the core book to start out, i agree if you continue to play however you should expand your collection.

[All4BigGuns]

I disagree before i knew there were other books, i had plenty enjoyment of building the character and felt overwhelmed by the amount of choices i had ahead of me. I enjoy shadowrun for it's character reaction so much that it's a hobbie of mine just to build random characters from my Astral Hazing + Arcane Arrester guy named "Mageslayer" to my troll adept named "bullet stopper" (20 phys track 15 stun, 12 body, and like 25 armor) xD to my Elf named "twitch". (15 agi but 1 initiative pass)

but you don't need more than the core book to start out, i agree if you continue to play however you should expand your collection.

I couldn't enjoy the edition until the further books came out. The ridiculously limited amount of options just killed enjoyment to the point that I had to stick with third until Arsenal and Augmentation came out (minimum).

[Sharzak]

OK, I'm reading through the rulebook now and already the most burning question is--how does one handle the skills and abilities that take extended periods of time?  Installing a weapon upgrade, or spending a week searching for a weapon with a bad Availability rating, or fixing up a motorcycle all take hours or potentially days.  What do the other PC's do during this time?  Are there any "upkeep" costs I should levy to the PC's finances, e.g., food, rent, etc.?

I haven't read it cover to cover yet so if it's in the book I'm terribly sorry, just wanted some opinions on how to get around this.

[Walks Through Walls]

The lifestyle the character chooses is the cost they pay in monthly upkeep for things like rent, food etc.

For tests that take hours or days the way I do it is I find out what everyone is doing then I have them make their extended rolls to see how long it takes. While this is happening the other players do what they want.

In my current game we meet once a month so the between runs things like finding a weapon, doing upgrades, etc. we do online and I do the rolls using invisible castles. It was via email until one of the players set up a website that we use to do it now. I also post news flashes, background info, and rules interpretations. The players each have the option of having posting a run summary or questions if they want also.

Hope this helps you out and welcome to the game

[NinthSphere]

Hours or days really aren't that hard to fill. Keep in mind *most* runners aren't machines who pull runs back to back endlessly. Short stuff can be going out to lunch or a club/bar for a few hours. Longer (weekish) can be chalked up to chilling out in general, since even runners probably have something resembling a life, even if it's just shooting people in vr instead of meatspace.

[Sharzak]

Passing time sounds like it's well implemented upon further reading. I posted before I read what I should have, I apologize.  I picked up the Runner's Toolkit (the gamemaster's screen is horny as hell) and I think I can nudge my playgroup enough to do the On The Run mission the way it "should" be--a few of my players are the type where if I have an NPC say "you don't even know what's on that thing, hand it over" they'll make it their life's work to find out ASAP. 

What I want to do is integrate this with the Food Fight mission from the QSR.  I'll have them all in the Shack together, strangers to one another or in pairs when the attempted hit goes down.  They'll dispatch the hit squad and a few days later get a call--all of a sudden everyone wants to talk to the elite team of runners that took out those hitmen with ease.  The security footage from the Stuffer Shack was all over the trids that weekend, and all of a sudden these down on their luck runners are in high demand--especially since there's a sudden shortage of low rent hitmen.  Smiley the Fixer knows a couple of them and is going to cash in by forming them into the team everyone thinks they are, and On the Run will start.

What do you guys think?  Is this a legitimate way of getting things started or is it too railroady?  Would you bat an eye if a GM did this in one of your games?  I think the exploding convenience store would be a great set piece to introduce the new guys to the burny world that is Shadowrun.

[Critias]

Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).

I cannot disagree with this more, in both the suggestion being made and the reasons given for it.

[Sharzak]

Yeah buying all that right now is completely off the table.  I'm already worried about having spent $100 on something that could completely flop.

[JoeNapalm]

Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).

I cannot disagree with this more, in both the suggestion being made and the reasons given for it.

Seconded.

Increased or unlimited choices often leads to a decrease in happiness and/or welfare.

Start with the base rules. RPGs are inherently complex, and SR4 is one of the most complex.

The dark secret of table-top RPGs is this: The rules are all just smoke and mirrors. The STORY is what is important. The dice and stacks of paper and rulebooks are all there to prevent the chaos of  the old cops-and-robbers "I got you! No you didn't!"...but in truth, that's really the GM wearing the mantle of the books and dice to impart an air of impartiality.

My first gig as a GM was as a kid in elementary school. No dice, no rules, no paper, just interactive storytelling with the GM as adjudicator. Shadowrun is all about the setting, and the rules give form and substance to it - but never let the rules get in the way of having fun. Start small, and build.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Reaver]

Welcome to table top roleplaying!

I agree that all you need to start is the main rulebook. Everything you need is there to start with and to get a grasp of what is going on in the world.

I would sugest (like many others) that first you find out what your players want in a game so you can supply the most enjoymetn to them. Do they want lots of action/combat? Do they want lots of mystery and intrige?  From there, either use the pre-gen characters that fits what they want to do, or guide them through the creation steps to make their own cahracters to fit what they want.

Make sure you have a fare understanding of the more complex rules your players may be using. Meaning, if no one is going to be playing a TM or hacker, gloss over the matrix section for now. But if they are focusing on combat characters (or mage chracters) make usr eyou understand the how combat/magic works.

Be prepared to wing alot of things when you start, after all your new! just make a note of it, and look up what to do later then explain it to the group ("Hey guys, when Ted threw that grenade last week, it actually doesn't just land at the badguys feet, it lands 2d6 meters away, with every success bringing it 1 metter closer to the target...)

But remember the NUMBER ONE rule. and that's HAVE FUN!

To do that, sometimes you have to "cheat".... so cheat As long as everyone is enjoying themselves, it's ok. Don't worry about playing "by all the rules" until both you and your players are comfortable. As your comfort level grows, you can add in more of the complex and confusing rules as you go.

[Xzylvador]

^ I'll second the "have fun" part, cheesy as it may sound

Also wanted to say that I heavily agree on the "cheat" thing (as a GM only!!!). If in the first encounter they have in combat, the CorpSec wageslave guard accidentally rolls 8 hits on his 8 dice, resulting in instant death for one of the players, ignore it and just let it be a grazing hit!
I'll also expand on the "you must cheat" option by advising you to sometimes make up rules on the spot -even if "I know they're somewhere in the rulebook, I'm sure I read something a lot like this, let me just get the book and look it up for half an hour!".
IMO, there's few things that'll do more damage to a game than pausing every 5 minutes to spend the next half hour looking for a rule. So instead, write down what it was that raised a question, but for the moment, just wing it and come up with something that's quick and good enough for the moment.
(example: Joe, wielding a Ruger Warhawk Heavy Revolver, wants to shoot Bubba, who's hiding behind a hardwood desk.
Being new to the game, it might be quite hard to immediately come up with the right modifiers to the shot (can't see, prone, range, etc) and then how to apply all of this to the barrier rules, as well as looking up a armor&structure rating for the desk.
Don't grab your books! For now, unless the player has looked up the rules for this action in advance and has them at hand, just say "Joe can shoot at -5 dice because he can't see his target and it's prone. It could have been lower, but Bubba's almost as large as the desk making it less hard to hit him. The wood of the desk will add 6 dice to Bubba's armor."
It's probably not exactly how it should go by the rules, but it's not unreasonable either and everyone at the table will be happy that they don't have to wait 15 minutes for one bullet.)

[Crossbow]

Passing time sounds like it's well implemented upon further reading. I posted before I read what I should have, I apologize.  I picked up the Runner's Toolkit (the gamemaster's screen is horny as hell) and I think I can nudge my playgroup enough to do the On The Run mission the way it "should" be--a few of my players are the type where if I have an NPC say "you don't even know what's on that thing, hand it over" they'll make it their life's work to find out ASAP. 

What I want to do is integrate this with the Food Fight mission from the QSR.  I'll have them all in the Shack together, strangers to one another or in pairs when the attempted hit goes down.  They'll dispatch the hit squad and a few days later get a call--all of a sudden everyone wants to talk to the elite team of runners that took out those hitmen with ease.  The security footage from the Stuffer Shack was all over the trids that weekend, and all of a sudden these down on their luck runners are in high demand--especially since there's a sudden shortage of low rent hitmen.  Smiley the Fixer knows a couple of them and is going to cash in by forming them into the team everyone thinks they are, and On the Run will start.

What do you guys think?  Is this a legitimate way of getting things started or is it too railroady?  Would you bat an eye if a GM did this in one of your games?  I think the exploding convenience store would be a great set piece to introduce the new guys to the burny world that is Shadowrun.

I personally think you are going to have a great time, Food Fight has been around forever and, when it goes down the way it is intended to, always produces memories.  I can still remember the "Neon Samurai" from an early edition decapitate himself with his own mono-whip and showering the teams decker/rigger with blood and goop from the shelves. He was completely unable to move for the rest of the fight and came out so badly slimed that he got a new streetname 'Horror Show'. (had nothing to do with his driving, really!   )

Anyway, like I said before, I like the fact that you are prepared.  Players love to throw curve balls, and the holes some modules get written with, it seems like the express purpose is making a GM's life interesting.

Let the ones who have something in mind already go ahead and start building, but have the start playing a template for the moment, you can swap them in once they are completely done and you have checked them out.  You will want to do that, you will be amazed out how many character sheets get built early on that forget basics: Ammo for the 50 guns they have, vehicles or lifestyle choices that don't match ('So you a squatter with a 50,000 nuyen car?  That may not work out well.), forgetting fake IDs or commlinks, that kinda stuff.  The templates will give you and them time to iron out kinks.

Anyway, keep asking questions, even the dumb ones, there are plenty of folks here willing to help.

[JoeNapalm]

^ I'll second the "have fun" part, cheesy as it may sound

Also wanted to say that I heavily agree on the "cheat" thing (as a GM only!!!). If in the first encounter they have in combat, the CorpSec wageslave guard accidentally rolls 8 hits on his 8 dice, resulting in instant death for one of the players, ignore it and just let it be a grazing hit!

While I agree with almost everything Xzylvador said, I am...again...a little less benevolent.

[DISCLAIMER: The following is intended for GM's ONLY. Players should not look behind the curtain. Really. You can't unlook.]

I am a huge advocate of the Story driving everything. The dice are a handy tool - they allow for easy resolution of common tasks, and (most importantly) they convey a sense of impartiality. 99% of the time, the dice should be obeyed...but there's that 1% where the dice would make the story less fun, or even break it. In those cases, it is the GM's responsibility to nudge things. Just a tap - nothing heavy handed, nothing that could be (for the love of all that is Holy) observed. The INSTANT the players realize you are manipulating things behind the screen, and that the dice are not absolute, your game loses something.

Because of this, the above scenario is the perfect time to let the dice fall where they may. In these early sessions, the player has not invested so much into their character. The characters haven't built up lots of karma, Contacts, etc. It is the perfect time to gank one of them, as an example to the others.

Yes, you heard me. Kill a PC. Boom. Dead.

If they screw up or things simply break bad and the dice snuff one of their little weefle Runner lives, you have established two very important things: A) that you will NOT nudge the dice to save a character's life, and B) you have the stones to build a situation where the character's lives are in real jeopardy.

That poor dead bastard will make the falling D6 resound like the Bells of Doom.

So, later on, down the road, when your players have lovingly crafted their PCs into deranged little mirrors of their damaged souls, and you DO nudge the dice to save one of them when things simply go terribly, horribly wrong (because we all know that a GM would NEVER screw up and throw more at the players than they could handle...right? Heh) then no one would ever suspect it. After all, you shot poor Newbie Marvin in the face, back in the day, didn't you, you cold-hearted slave of Fate?

This is important to establish, right out of the gate. In the first run or two, if no player character is star-crossed enough to stumble into the Reaper's cold and bony embrace, I'd definitely ice an NPC. Preferably a very likable one. I don't mean the "seasoned old mentor" NPC...I mean the one that you threw into the party to balance things out and that your players suspect you're playing as a favorite NPC (or "GM Player Character" (even typing the phrase makes me cringe)). Allow the NPC enough of a role in the party, and have enough backstory and actual personality that he doesn't come off as just a redshirt. A redshirt dying doesn't put the existential dread of their own mortality into anyone...it's their function to die.

But if an NPC that's a friend or even "one of the party" gets blitzed (and preferably, they get deadified in as random and non-dramatically as possible (you wouldn't want them thinking that Gentleman Dan the NPC Badass got offed by The Plot...The Plot is what saves PCs...he MUST be killed by the Dice!)) the players start to realize that the world is a dangerous place. (Not as much as if you're lucky enough to have a PC volunteer to be your perfect object lesson, but it still gets the point across. *Grin*)

-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate

[freddieflatline]

Wait to run it until you have at minimum Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Unwired and the Runner's Toolkit. Until then just read and familiarize yourself with rules and setting. Always keep in mind that characters are no fun to play when they have source book restrictions, and avoid restricting availability to less than the 12 base maximum in the core book (go above if you want, but less destroys fun).

I would have to disagree.  Setting some limits during character creation is a good thing especially when you are new to a system.  It creates less of a hassle as the neophyte GM tries to balance out his game.  Personally I would just run with the main book for now until you are comfortable with it then start adding in the other source books.  It will minimize the chance that you get pants during your first couple of games. 

[Xzylvador]

<Stuff I posted>

While I agree with almost everything Xzylvador said, I am...again...a little less benevolent.
<Lots of very good stuff that I snip because it's right up there ^^.

If it were anything but a -totally- newbie group, I would agree that being killed by the first rent-a-cop guard just to set an example and to establish the "this is a dangerous world, not some DnD fairy fantasy" feeling.
But for a first-in-a-lifetime experience to roleplaying, I don't think I'd have the guts to kill the character... Wound, maim, cripple, sure! Any previous experience they'd be dead too.
But "Welcome to the game, let's have some fun! You lose initiative, roll 4 dice to defend...  Nope, you're dead, please make a new character." might give a first impression that's slightly too bad, even for a game with as much danger to the PC as SR. Save it for the second encounter