Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Twitchy D on <08-27-12/1346:40>
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So my first attempt at creating a character ended up with him being more suited for technical pursuits, namely vehicle/drone rigging. Unfortunately, the rules for drone combat are rather confusing for me, and I would learn them better by listening to someone else as they play their character. Plus, I don't have Unwired. So I started on another character, this one a Street Samurai. Yeah, I'll often be "the final solution", but hitting a shmuck with various flavors of sticks has its own satisfying flavor. Anyways, I just need some opinions and recommendations for this character, and to know if he is useable.
Paul Meixner (Commlinks registration)
---Attributes---
Body 4 (5)
Agility 4 (5)
Reaction 4 (6)
Strength 5 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
Initiative 10
Passes 2 (3 to 4 on drugs)
Condition (Stun) 10
Condition (Physical) 11
---Qualities---
<Positive>
Bioware Compatability
Quick Healer
Toughness
>Negative<
Hung Out to Dry
Amnesia
Flashbacks - Uncommon
Scorched
---Skills---
Groups
Athletics Group 2
Combat
Blades 6 =11
Dodge (Ranged) 4 (6) =9 (11)
Longarms 2 =7
Pistols 4 =9
Throwing Weapons 4 =9
Vehicles
Pilot Ground Craft 1 =4
Physical
Climbing 2 =9
Gymnastics 2 =8
Perception 2 =6
Running 2 =9
Survival (Urban) 2 (4) =5 (7)
Swimming 2 =9
Knowledge
Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
Junkyards & Dumps (Seattle) 2 (3)
Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
Spanish 4
Russian 2
English (Natural) [Cityspeak] NA
Cyberware
Three Auto-Injectors, Reusable, Alphaware
1. Filled with Kamakaze, 3 doses
2. Filled with Cram , 3 doses
3. Filled with Stimulant Patch rating 6, 6 doses
Biomonitor, Alphaware
2 Modular customized lower cyberlegs with skimmer disks, Armor +2
Bioware
Symbiotes II
Synaptic Booster I
Suprathyroid Gland
Muscle Augmentation I
Platelet Factories
Weapons
Melee
Katar, personalized grip
Ceramic Knife
Firearms
Ruger Super Warhawk, custom grip, custom look (1), concealable Holster, speed loader, default smartgun
Franchi SPAS-22, Smartgun system, Folding stock, Foregrip
Thrown
5 Frag Grenades
2 Flashpaks
10 throwing knives
So any reccomendations, criticisms, questions regarding skill choices?
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Don't get just Muscle Augmentation 1, it's a waste. Get rank 2. Also, Muscle Toner 2.
Also, I'd suggest moving 2 points from Strength to Agility and Reaction. Dodge i, more or less, unnecessary. Certainly not worth that many points. I'd redistribute that to your weapon skills, which are low. If you want to stick with the shotgun, then get Longarms to 5 at least. With 5 base Agility, +2 from Muscle Toner, that's 12 dice. Plus any other mods. Currently, you have 7.
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If that's the case, I'll need to replace the Platlet Factories with the Toner and the Augmentation. Tell me, is Platlet Factories nessesary, or can I dump it?
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It's nice to have, reducing physical damage over 2 by 1 is nifty. But a higher body and better armour would help preventing even more damage.
By the way, what armour is your street sam using?
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By the way, what armour is your street sam using?
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit, with Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit underneath, and a generic helmet. Plus the +2 armor on his cyberlegs.
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Suprathyroid Gland need restricted gear quality
Imo Synaptic booster 1 is not enough, you better take lvl 2 it's mandatory if you want to be effective, drugs are very dangerous if you rely too much on them.
If you don't use karma build i suggest you keep skill at lvl 1, not lvl 2 (taking 2 groups at one is more effective than one at 2). The same with specialization, wait first karma for adding them it's good to improve your character with little karma.
It's classic but i also suggest muscle toner 2 above everything else.
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Suprathyroid Gland need restricted gear quality
Fixed that. Added Sensitive Neural Structure to balance it.
Imo Synaptic booster 1 is not enough, you better take lvl 2 it's mandatory if you want to be effective, drugs are very dangerous if you rely too much on them.
To afford lvl 2 I would need to take out the Symbiotes, the Suprathyroid Gland, and both my custom cyberlegs. I'll go for some alphaware Wired Reflexes II, but I would prefer keeping the Cyberlegs and the Suprathyroid Gland. Plus, Cram's 10 nuyen for another pass, not to mention the Kamakaze's about 100 for another. I could live with the Negative Qualities of being an addict, as well as the pathos of being a murderous hobo cyborg strung out on drugs for a while. It'll make the scenes when I'm at rehab all the more bizzarely hilarious.
If you don't use karma build i suggest you keep skill at lvl 1, not lvl 2 (taking 2 groups at one is more effective than one at 2). The same with specialization, wait first karma for adding them it's good to improve your character with little karma.
Reworked my character for it already. Everything exept for Survival is either a one, a four, or a six. I also added Intimidation at one and Infiltration at one.
It's classic but i also suggest muscle toner 2 above everything else.
Understood, and corrected.
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Alright, here's how the stats look now...
“Paul Meixner” (Commlink’s registration)
---Attributes---
Body 4 (5)
Agility 5 ( 8 )
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 4 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
Initiative 10
Passes 2 (3 to 4 on DRUGS)
Condition (Stun) 10
Condition (Physical) 11
---Qualities---
<Positive>
• Bioware Compatability
• Quick Healer
• Toughness
• Restricted Gear
>Negative<
• Hung Out to Dry
• Amnesia
• Flashbacks - Uncommon
• Scorched
• Sensitive Neural Structure
---Skills---
Groups
• Athletics Group 2
Combat
• Blades 6 =11
• Dodge (Ranged) 1 (4) =7 (9)
• Longarms 4 =9
• Pistols 4 =9
• Throwing Weapons 4 =9
Social
• Intimidation 1 =3
Vehicles
• Pilot Ground Craft 1 =4
Physical
• Climbing 2 =9
• Gymnastics 2 =8
• Infiltration 1 =9
• Perception 2 =6
• Running 2 =9
• Survival (Urban) 2 (4) =5 (7)
• Swimming 2 =9
Knowledge
• Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
• Junkyards & Dumps (Seattle) 2 (3)
• Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
• Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
• Spanish 4
• Russian 2
• English (Natural) [Cityspeak] NA
Cyberware
• Three Auto-Injectors, Reusable, Alphaware
1. Filled with Kamakaze, 3 doses
2. Filled with Cram , 3 doses
3. Filled with Stimulant Patch rating 6, 6 doses
• Biomonitor, Alphaware
• 2 Modular customized lower cyberlegs with skimmer disks, Armor +2
Bioware
• Symbiotes II
• Synaptic Booster I
• Suprathyroid Gland
• Muscle Augmentation II
• Muscle Toner II
Weapons
Melee
• Katar, personalized grip
• Ceramic Knife
Firearms
• Ruger Super Warhawk, custom grip, custom look (1), concealable Holster, speed loader, default smartgun
• Franchi SPAS-22, Smartgun system, Folding stock, Foregrip
Thrown
• 5 Frag Grenades
• 2 Flashpaks
• 10 throwing knives
Anything else?
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Imo Synaptic booster 1 is not enough, you better take lvl 2 it's mandatory if you want to be effective, drugs are very dangerous if you rely too much on them.
As an opinion, this is fine, but I have never seen a case where it's "mandatory" to have more than 2 passes, and rarely do I blow the Essence and nuyen to go up as far as 3 and I've never had a problem.
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It's a widely held "thing". People seem to feel that 3 IPs is the sweet-spot in terms of Essence and Cost, at chargen. 2 is often enough, but since this guy's a Street Sam, he may want to bring more than enough. After all, it only takes some drugs to match the Street Sam which some corpsec may just do.
I'd consider dropping Pilot Ground Craft. You don't need a point to be able to drive around, the skill's there if you intend to do some vehicular combat. If you are, you'll need more than one point.
You can put another point into either Intimidation or Infiltration.
Are you happy with your weaponry? They're non-standard choices, which I like. Also, love the skimmer discs. I suggest getting a Grappling Gun, with the skimmers on you could pull off some cool stuff.
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It's a widely held "thing". People seem to feel that 3 IPs is the sweet-spot in terms of Essence and Cost, at chargen. 2 is often enough, but since this guy's a Street Sam, he may want to bring more than enough. After all, it only takes some drugs to match the Street Sam which some corpsec may just do.
Eh. Seeing that I'm starting a new character, I don't find it likely that I'll be facing security forces on the very first run. Drugged up gangers, yes, absolutely, but corpsec? The Johnson needs to know how likely it is for their "Contracted Employees" to screw them, as well as have them be able to complete their requirements. An unknown hire with no prior shadow backround? No way, he could crack under threat of being turned into a jarhead on a MCT run. Once I start getting into corp runs, then I'll be buying that second level.
You can put another point into either Intimidation or Infiltration.
Intimidation, definately. Isn't it a job requirement for street sams?
Are you happy with your weaponry? They're non-standard choices, which I like. Also, love the skimmer discs. I suggest getting a Grappling Gun, with the skimmers on you could pull off some cool stuff.
Thanks! Actually, I've been reading some stories on suptg. Read some Shadowrun Storytime, and it kind of got me to try Shadowrun in the first place. As for the grappling gun, sure, I've got enough money for that.
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The IP boosts from drugs don't stack with the IP boost from Synaptic Boosters. The Reaction boost may or may not stack depending on your GM.
Quick Healer is...not great.
Toughness is outright terrible.
Your skills are way too spread out. You have four ways of rolling agility + skill to do damage, two ways to add a skill to melee defense, and two ways to add a skill to ranged defense. The result is that you have a lot of more important, less redundant skills like Perception that are low. You also don't really have the gear to support your skills.
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Unless you have a roleplay reason to do so I would never get autoinjectors as an implant, if you have them as mods to your legs it's a little more fesable but still kind of a head scratch.. I especially would not do so with K-10. If you use K-10 your character is going to die, you will be amazing in the last for minuetes of your life but at the end of that time your going to suck up somewhere around 18s which on top of whatever wounds you take in combat is more then likely going to overflow into a physical by a lot and kill you dead. Alternatively your going to be passed out meaning your team mates might have to lug you home, which they may be in no shape or position to do if you were in a situation so bad you popped the K10. Then there's the whole make an edge (1) test or loose your mind thing. No point in carrying 3 doses and negligable gain in putting it in an implanted auto injector.
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The IP boosts from drugs don't stack with the IP boost from Synaptic Boosters. The Reaction boost may or may not stack depending on your GM.
That... stinks.
Quick Healer is...not great.
Redundant due to Symbiotes II, I guess?
Your skills are way too spread out. You have four ways of rolling agility + skill to do damage, two ways to add a skill to melee defense, and two ways to add a skill to ranged defense. The result is that you have a lot of more important, less redundant skills like Perception that are low.
Took out Spanish, put Russian at 4, removed cityspeak from English, removed intimidation, put survival at 3, put longarms at 3, perception at 4, and put the last 2 points in the grenades thrown weapon specialty.
You also don't really have the gear to support your skills.
Well, I only put down the stats and weapons. Added a Sports Rifle to my weapons from the extra nuyen removing the Kamakaze Auto Injector, with Easy Breakdown and a laser sight. Replaced the cram with nitro. Here's the rest.
Gear
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit
Helmet (Ballistic/Impact - +1/+2)
Light Stick (10)
Medkit (Rating 6)
Survival Kit
Stimulant Patch (Rating 6) X 6
Trauma Patch
Grapple Gun
Flashlight
Earbuds
+ Audio Enhancement III
+ Select Sound Filter III
+ Spatial Recognizer
Gas Mask
Glasses
+ Flare Compensation
+ Vision Magnification
+ Thermographic
+ Low Light
+ Smartlink
+ Vision Enhancement III
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I especially would not do so with K-10.
K-10!? God no! I was using good old fastioned regular Kamakaze! K-10's for a last ditch Godzilla Threshold problem, and I doubt I could buy it at the start of the game.
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My bad, was still sleepy and forgot there is a drug called Kamikaze and K-10 isn't just slang for it.
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No problem. Chances are that every team finds a vial of that stuff every now and then. Besides, K-10's experimental name IS Kamakaze grade 10. Hell, I got it confused with KE VI!
And no fun was had that day...
I'll be back in about five hours. Work's coming up. Meanwhile, please! Discuss this amongst yourselves, and i'll check back when I return.
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Can you put your updated sheet up? It's a bit hard to cross-reference.
Quick Healer is just meh in general, with the exception of if your GM lets it work as written and give you +2 to first aid other people, or if you are have Regeneration. It's just not worth it compared to more body and willpower.
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I'm back!
Here's the current stats.
Paul Meixner (Commlinks registration)
---Attributes---
Body 4 (5)
Agility 5 ( 8 )
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 4 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
Initiative 10
Passes 2
Condition (Stun) 10
Condition (Physical) 11
---Qualities---
<Positive>
Bioware Compatability
Erased II
High Pain Tolerance II
Restricted Gear
>Negative<
Hung Out to Dry
Amnesia
Flashbacks - Uncommon
Scorched
Sensitive Neural Structure
---Skills---
Groups
Athletics Group 2
Combat
Blades 6 =11
Dodge (Ranged) 1 (4) =7 (9)
Longarms 3 =8
Pistols 4 =9
Throwing Weapons (Grenades) 4 =9 (11)
Physical
Climbing 2 =9
Gymnastics 2 =8
Infiltration 1 =9
Perception 4 =8
Running 2 =9
Survival (Urban) 2 (4) =5 (7)
Swimming 2 =9
Knowledge
Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
German 4
Russian 3
English (Natural) NA
Cyberware
Two Auto-Injectors, Reusable, Alphaware
1. Filled with Nitro, 3 doses
2. Filled with Stimulant Patch rating 6, 6 doses
Biomonitor, Alphaware
2 Modular customized lower cyberlegs with skimmer disks, Armor +2
Bioware
Symbiotes II
Synaptic Booster I
Suprathyroid Gland
Muscle Augmentation II
Muscle Toner II
Weapons
Melee
Katar, personalized grip, custom look (I)
Ceramic Knife
Firearms
Ruger Super Warhawk, custom grip, custom look (I), concealable Holster, speed loader, default smartgun
Franchi SPAS-22, Smartgun system, Folding stock, Foregrip, Sling
Mannlicher Wildhόter, top mounted imaging scope, shock pad, custom look (I), Sling
Thrown
5 Frag Grenades
2 Flashpaks
10 throwing knives
Gear
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit
Helmet (Ballistic/Impact - +1/+2)
Light Stick (10)
Medkit (Rating 6)
Survival Kit
Stimulant Patch (Rating 6) X 6
Trauma Patch
Grapple Gun
Flashlight
Earbuds
+ Audio Enhancement III
+ Select Sound Filter III
+ Spatial Recognizer
Gas Mask
Glasses
+ Flare Compensation
+ Vision Magnification
+ Thermographic
+ Low Light
+ Smartlink
+ Vision Enhancement III
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Lower Athletics Group to 1 and get Synthacardium R3 if possible. Gives you total +2 on all Athletics for less (Synthacardium R3 cost 30.000 nuyen and that equals 6 BP). I would raise Longarms to 4 with 4 of those BP.
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you also use 6 BP on 3 specialities and it would be more karma efficient just to get those with Karma.
I'm not sure your glasses are legal with that much in them. You could just spilt the enhancement between glasses and contact lenses though.
Am I missing it or don't you own a commlink?
More Reaction and more Intuition is good for your initiative. Can you spare som Reaction Enhancers?
Rasmus
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I'm up...
Lower Athletics Group to 1 and get Synthacardium R3 if possible. Gives you total +2 on all Athletics for less (Synthacardium R3 cost 30.000 nuyen and that equals 6 BP). I would raise Longarms to 4 with 4 of those BP.
Can't. The Muscle Toner/Augmentation's wiped out the last bit of my nuyen.
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you also use 6 BP on 3 specialities and it would be more karma efficient just to get those with Karma.
Keep forgetting that hint, sorry. I've removed ranged dodge and grenades thrown, and placed them in Longarms.
I'm not sure your glasses are legal with that much in them. You could just spilt the enhancement between glasses and contact lenses though.
Forgot the avalibility 12 limit. Again. Just fixed the problem
Am I missing it or don't you own a commlink?
I own a Sony Emperor with Redcap Nix OS. Forgot to put it down.
More Reaction and more Intuition is good for your initiative. Can you spare som Reaction Enhancers?
At this point, I'm tapped out money wise. I could barely afford a fake level 4 SIN!
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Ah yes the money issue.
Well hard to do much about other than getting out there and run ;)
Rasmus
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Yeah, funny how fiction imitates real life, right? ;D
Well, I think I'm set. I'm feeling satisfied about this character and his gear, so I'm gonna say that "Paul" is set to find out who he is and what's he doing in a alleyway with a trio of dead gangsters with no memories whatsoever. Here's the stats one last time.
“Paul Meixner” (Commlink’s registration)
---Attributes---
Body 4 (5)
Agility 5 (8 )
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 4 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
Initiative 10
Passes 2
Condition (Stun) 10
Condition (Physical) 11
---Qualities---
<Positive>
• Bioware Compatability
• Erased II
• High Pain Tolerance II
• Restricted Gear
>Negative<
• Hung Out to Dry
• Amnesia
• Flashbacks - Uncommon
• Scorched
• Sensitive Neural Structure
---Skills---
Groups
• Athletics Group 2
Combat
• Blades 6 =11
• Dodge (Ranged) 1 (4) =7 (9)
• Longarms 3 =8
• Pistols 4 =9
• Throwing Weapons (Grenades) 4 =9 (11)
Physical
• Climbing 2 =9
• Gymnastics 2 =8
• Infiltration 1 =9
• Perception 4 =8
• Running 2 =9
• Survival (Urban) 2 (4) =5 (7)
• Swimming 2 =9
Knowledge
• Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
• Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
• Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
• German 4
• Russian 3
• English (Natural) NA
Cyberware
• Two Auto-Injectors, Reusable, Alphaware
1. Filled with Nitro, 3 doses
2. Filled with Stimulant Patch rating 6, 6 doses
• Biomonitor, Alphaware
• 2 Modular customized lower cyberlegs with skimmer disks, Armor +2
Bioware
• Symbiotes II
• Synaptic Booster I
• Suprathyroid Gland
• Muscle Augmentation II
• Muscle Toner II
Weapons
Melee
• Katar, personalized grip, custom look (I), Gecko Grip.
o Matte black, with silver ivy engravings, bearing ‘XIII’ on both sides.
• Ceramic Knife
Firearms
• Ruger Super Warhawk, custom grip, custom look (I), concealable Holster, speed loader, default smartgun, Firing Selection small (semi-auto).
o Matte black, with silver ivy engravings, bearing the words ‘Paranoia is a Survival Trait’ on the barrel. Handle is of dark wood.
• Franchi SPAS-22, Smartgun system, Folding stock, Foregrip, Sling
• Mannlicher Wildhόter, top mounted imaging scope, shock pad, custom look (I), Sling, Firing Selection small (semi-auto).
o Scrimshaw of Peter Nicolai Arbo’s Εsgεrdsreien (1872) in micarta on the stock.
Thrown
• 5 Frag Grenades
• 2 Flashpaks
• 10 throwing knives
Gear
• Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
• Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit
• Helmet (Ballistic/Impact - +1/+2)
• Light Stick (10)
• Medkit (Rating 6)
• Survival Kit
• Stimulant Patch (Rating 6) X 6
• Trauma Patch
• Grapple Gun
• Flashlight
• Earbuds
• + Audio Enhancement III
• + Select Sound Filter III
• Gas Mask
• Glasses
• + Flare Compensation
• + Vision Magnification
• + Low Light
• + Vision Enhancement III
• Contacts
• + Smartlink
Comm
Sony Emperor with Redcap Nix OS
Fake SIN's
"Paul Meixner", UCAS Citizen. Bodyguard. Rating 4 Fake.
240 nuyen left.
Heading out for a while. Chores and similar. Back in two, three hours. Cya!
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High Pain Tolerance is another very bad quality. A lot of SR qualities sound cool, but are actually really bad.
Combat
Blades 6 =11
Dodge (Ranged) 1 (4) =7 (9)
Longarms 3 =8
Pistols 4 =9
Throwing Weapons (Grenades) 4 =9 (11)
Physical
Gymnastics 2 =8
Here's where the redundancy is.
You have a melee skill (blades) and you have Gymnastics, so you don't need Dodge and can drop it.
Longarms, Pistols, and Throwing Weapons is two ways of rolling Agility+Skill to inflict damage at range too many. Throwing Weapons is just a bad skill except for particular adept builds (thrown grenades are actually pretty useless, because they take long enough to go off that a lot of people can simply walk away. Grenades in general aren't very good, but airbursted grenades are at least a niche weapon).
Since you already have Blades for concealable close-quarters weapons, I would suggest losing Pistols and Throwing Weapons, then shoring up the rest of your skills to better support what you can do. Up Longarms to 4, bump up your Infiltration, and get Palming (there's no point having concealable blades if you don't actually have the skill to conceal them), or possibly get the Stealth group.
I hate to bring it up because it's stupid, but in Shadowrun, cooking is not a Knowledge Skill: it's Artisan, which is quite unfortunate. That knowledge skill means you know about barbecues, but actually cooking is still Artisan (did I mention I hate how being a great pianist automatically makes you a great chef and a great painter too?) Your GM may be willing to ignore this because it is terrible.
Symbiotes are not very good. Synthacardium is a much better investment, but you would want Rating 3, not 2.
Gear-wise, assuming you do take my advice about skills:
Custom grip all melee weapons, always. It's a tiny price for +1 to hit.
Attach bayonets of some type to your ranged weapons. This sounds (and really, is) a little dorky, but it lets you use Blades to defend yourself if people melee you when you try to shoot them.
There are four good longarms. The T-250 is the only concealable longarm so it wins that by default and you should own one. The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it. The Barrett is the best sniper rifle and as such is the main reason you would ever consider Longarms over Automatics, again you can't start with it. The Terracotta Arms Caravan (Gun Heaven 2) is the best sport rifle and as such is handy to own, since it is R rather than F but still an alright weapon.
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High Pain Tolerance is another very bad quality. A lot of SR qualities sound cool, but are actually really bad.
Dammit again! Aptitude Blades it is, then!
Here's where the redundancy is.
You have a melee skill (blades) and you have Gymnastics, so you don't need Dodge and can drop it.
Here's the thing: My impression of Gymnastics is of what you know is there, for example, jumping from the window to the fire excape across the alley, then dropping from there onto a parked delivery truck, then jumping off of that to the ground. Dodge, however, is used when the fully electric sedan stuffed to the brim with gangbangers with it's headlights turned off and running silent decides to run your @$$ over when you dropped off that delivery truck. As for Blades, that's for parrying melee attacks, not dodging bullets.
What my assumptions were: Gymnastics is for calculated manuvers, dodge is purely instinctual.
Longarms, Pistols, and Throwing Weapons is two ways of rolling Agility+Skill to inflict damage at range too many. Throwing Weapons is just a bad skill except for particular adept builds (thrown grenades are actually pretty useless, because they take long enough to go off that a lot of people can simply walk away. Grenades in general aren't very good, but airbursted grenades are at least a niche weapon).
Since you already have Blades for concealable close-quarters weapons, I would suggest losing Pistols and Throwing Weapons, then shoring up the rest of your skills to better support what you can do. Up Longarms to 4, bump up your Infiltration, and get Palming (there's no point having concealable blades if you don't actually have the skill to conceal them), or possibly get the Stealth group.
(sigh...) OK, I'm trading Thrown weapons for palming 1, a 1 die boost in infitration, and 2 in armorer. Oh, I forgot to mention, the Grenades Subcatagory and the ranged dodge Subcatagory was dumped for a boost in longarms.
I hate to bring it up because it's stupid, but in Shadowrun, cooking is not a Knowledge Skill: it's Artisan, which is quite unfortunate. That knowledge skill means you know about barbecues, but actually cooking is still Artisan (did I mention I hate how being a great pianist automatically makes you a great chef and a great painter too?) Your GM may be willing to ignore this because it is terrible.
...
No, that's not stupid at all.
THAT, MY FRIEND, IS EXEEDINGLY STUPID!
Sorry, but that's... dumb. I'm not cooking on Top Chef or Iron Chef (the frigging awesome japanese one, FYI), I just want an interesting Character trait! I'd thought it'd be nice to have some real down home cooking rather then the typical Soy(place random food product here)...
Symbiotes are not very good. Synthacardium is a much better investment, but you would want Rating 3, not 2.
Changed it, but cannot afford rating 3.
Gear-wise, assuming you do take my advice about skills:
Custom grip all melee weapons, always. It's a tiny price for +1 to hit.
Agreed.
Attach bayonets of some type to your ranged weapons. This sounds (and really, is) a little dorky, but it lets you use Blades to defend yourself if people melee you when you try to shoot them.
Again, agreed.
There are four good longarms. The T-250 is the only concealable longarm so it wins that by default and you should own one. The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it. The Barrett is the best sniper rifle and as such is the main reason you would ever consider Longarms over Automatics, again you can't start with it. The Terracotta Arms Caravan (Gun Heaven 2) is the best sport rifle and as such is handy to own, since it is R rather than F but still an alright weapon.
Here's the problem with the last one. I don't have Gun Heaven 2. Or Gun Heaven 1. Or Unwired, Companion, or Street Magic, or any of the PDF's. Frankly, It'll be a bit before I can afford them. So I'm just running with what I have.
Also, slings on a longarm confer a concealability modifier of -2 for unreadied, -1 readied. Plus the +2 for holding onto the weapon. For 10 Nuyen.
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I'm going to buck Umaro on this, there is going to come a time, sooner then you'd like, where you really "wish you had some grenades right now". Because even with their inherant weakness under the rules currently they are still hard to beat for clearying areas out or denying them to the enemy. I would say it is likely more useful to your position then palming.
Also invest in smart linked grenades (Warning: GM's discretion territory here) and then sell your GM on the conept of using the issue command simple action to detonate the grenade. It's not strictly supported by the rules but to me it's always made sense by the tech level, and it's not to the best of my knowledge specifically disallowed either. Gives grenades a lot more utility at marginal increase in cost and gets them back to about where i see them being used by high tech opponents.
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That's kind of what I was thinking. Whirring shards of metal tend to have some detrimental effect to anyone standing near them, including the thrower and his pals, but if you use them wisely, like bouncing one at an angle into a room or hallway, or rigging a grenade trap ala Fallout 3 with demolitions or survival skill...
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Here's the thing: My impression of Gymnastics is of what you know is there, for example, jumping from the window to the fire excape across the alley, then dropping from there onto a parked delivery truck, then jumping off of that to the ground. Dodge, however, is used when the fully electric sedan stuffed to the brim with gangbangers with it's headlights turned off and running silent decides to run your @$$ over when you dropped off that delivery truck. As for Blades, that's for parrying melee attacks, not dodging bullets.
What my assumptions were: Gymnastics is for calculated manuvers, dodge is purely instinctual.
This isn't correct in SR. Gymnastics lets you Full Defense against either ranged or melee, as does Dodge. Dodge also lets you add it to your regular defense against melee without spending actions...but so does Blades. So you want either Gymnastics+Melee Skill, or Dodge. You don't want all three, and you should drop Dodge because it is doing nothing for you.
With only Arsenal and SR4A the Mannlicher Wildsomethinggermanwhatever is indeed a good choice, then.
Slings are indeed useful, but the T-250 is still the only longarm small enough to conceal. Everything else has a base of either +6 or "no," depending on your GM, so even with a sling that's +4 or "no." The T-250 with a sling and chameleon coating is reasonable to conceal.
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I'm going to buck Umaro on this, there is going to come a time, sooner then you'd like, where you really "wish you had some grenades right now". Because even with their inherant weakness under the rules currently they are still hard to beat for clearying areas out or denying them to the enemy. I would say it is likely more useful to your position then palming.
Also invest in smart linked grenades (Warning: GM's discretion territory here) and then sell your GM on the conept of using the issue command simple action to detonate the grenade. It's not strictly supported by the rules but to me it's always made sense by the tech level, and it's not to the best of my knowledge specifically disallowed either. Gives grenades a lot more utility at marginal increase in cost and gets them back to about where i see them being used by high tech opponents.
There's going to come a time when you wish you had some things that work like RL grenades right now, but SR thrown grenades are just awful. If you want grenades that aren't useless, get Heavy Weapons instead of Throwing Weapons and get an ArmTech MGL-6 with Airburst. Grenades that do damage directly still suck, but smoke and chemical type grenades are useful. The MGL-6 also has really REALLY long range for its size.
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The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it.
I just thought of something!
How about I replace the SPAS-22 with an AS-7 with ammo drums, buy the firing selection small mod for full auto at 300 nuyen, add gas vent 2, and go from there?
BAM! A full auto shotgun that's six shells shy from the AA16, but is only 20% of the cost at 1600 nuyen!
Hell, if your GM won't let you have the gas vent 2, just add Personalized Grip and Foregrip for 150 nuyen, or Foregrip and Underbarrel Weight I for 125, or even a Folding Stock and an Underbarrel Weight I for only 55 nuyen!
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The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it.
I just thought of something!
How about I replace the SPAS-22 with an AS-7 with ammo drums, buy the firing selection small mod for full auto at 300 nuyen, add gas vent 2, and go from there?
BAM! A full auto shotgun that's six shells shy from the AA16, but is only 20% of the cost at 1600 nuyen!
Hell, if your GM won't let you have the gas vent 2, just add Personalized Grip and Foregrip for 150 nuyen, or Foregrip and Underbarrel Weight I for 125, or even a Folding Stock and an Underbarrel Weight I for only 55 nuyen!
That can work, but part of the AA16's strength is in its ability to lay down three suppressive fire actions with shot ammo before needing to be reloaded.
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The Auto-Assault 16 is the only shotgun that doesn't suck eggs, but you can't start with it.
I just thought of something!
How about I replace the SPAS-22 with an AS-7 with ammo drums, buy the firing selection small mod for full auto at 300 nuyen, add gas vent 2, and go from there?
BAM! A full auto shotgun that's six shells shy from the AA16, but is only 20% of the cost at 1600 nuyen!
Hell, if your GM won't let you have the gas vent 2, just add Personalized Grip and Foregrip for 150 nuyen, or Foregrip and Underbarrel Weight I for 125, or even a Folding Stock and an Underbarrel Weight I for only 55 nuyen!
You'll miss out on the AA16's suppressive fire bonus ability and mod space, but that can work. Mind your RC on auto shotguns, as any uncompensated recoil for them is doubled (p.152).
Fine by me! This way a new character can get their hands an autoshotgun just after creation on the cheap, rather then spend 8000 nuyen AND a Restricted Gear quality for the AA16. Hell, put in the foregrip, replace the underbarrel weight with a personalized grip, and keep the folding stock and the result will still cost less, and be a point higher in RC then the AA16.
Wait.
...
OK, now I get it. Still, it's a cheaper alternative for the shadowrunner without connections in the military, megacorps, or the smuggling biz.
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Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.
The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
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*looks at the most recent build posted* You know, while it may seem "pointless" for a Street Sam...
In my group, Etiquette is a survival skill. You should always have 1 point of it. With that missing, and
"Hung out to dry"? I don't know about your group, but in mine? You would be a dead man walking.
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Ah yes the money issue.
Well hard to do much about other than getting out there and run ;)
Rasmus
Unless you change a negative quality to "In Debt", I'd suggest losing at least "Hung Out To Dry" and possibly "Amnesia"
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*looks at the most recent build posted* You know, while it may seem "pointless" for a Street Sam...
In my group, Etiquette is a survival skill. You should always have 1 point of it. With that missing, and
"Hung out to dry"? I don't know about your group, but in mine? You would be a dead man walking.
That implies that I have a group to play with... :'(
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Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.
The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.
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And then there's the Ares Slivergun. 8P +5AP. Built-in sound suppression. Burst Fire capabilities. Heavy Pistol concealability. And a clip has about 30 rounds in it. For 25 nuyen more.
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Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.
The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.
Shotguns mostly suck because they are banned from taking a lot of the modifications/accessories that they would need to compete with Automatics. Other than the AA-16, which does have a niche in which it's a solid gun, a properly modded shotgun is just less good than a properly modded AR or BR.
The Remington Roomsweeper is a Pistol that uses some shotgun rules - but it still uses the Pistols skill. It's not a small shotgun, it's a bad pistol. The T-250 still uses Longarms, which is why it's useful despite being kind of meh otherwise. (Also, note that the T-250's 5P is with normal ammo. It's 7P/+4 with shot or flechettes, although you usually want to just use SnS anyways).
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If you're going Longarms, you gotta accept the suckiness. Or at least, the general awesomeness of the Automatics group of firearms. Battle Rifles may not have the range and hitting power of a Sniper Rifle, especially a Barrett, but it can burst fire.
I know you can technically mod a Sniper Rifle to even go FA, but that's slightly beyond the *cough* scope *cough* of what Sniper Rifles are for.
The sawed-off T-250 is fine for when you need to visibly carry a piece. The Enfield AS-7 is cool as well, though the AA-16 is still the best shottie. There was that new shotgun from GH2, the one with a SS Grenade Launcher, and a Bipod for some reason. It was a law enforcement weapon, for storming in and such. Not meant for protracted battles but it's a good alternative when you get access to GH2.
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Sorta-related note: can you use Martial Arts?
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Shotguns cannot take gas-vent systems, either accessory or mod. That's why the Auto-Assault 16 is so much less bad: it has gas-vent 2 that you can't get on any other shotgun.
The Barrett is the reason to take Longarms and the Auto-Assault 16 and T-250 fill in the other things you need. If you don't like those weapons, you should really be using Automatics because at anything other than silenced sniping at extremely long range, Automatics is way better than Longarms, and the AA-16 and T-250 are the only serious options for close-combat and concealability in the Longarms class. You probably shouldn't start with either the AA-16 or the Barrett, mind you, because RG isn't worth it on a relatively cheap item, but you should eventually want to use them.
I'm honestly not seeing the problem with taking a normal shotgun. When I think "Shotgun", I don't think of the words "sneaky" or "quiet", I think of the words "loud" and "deadly". If I honestly was concerned with keeping a shotgun out of sight, I wouldn't think of a shotgun. Hell, the Remington Roomsweeper would be a better choice for stealth. It's much more concealable, has a bigger magazine and better damage at 7P (compared to the shortbarrel T-250's 5P), and costs less. Also, yes I know that Arsenal's shotguns are 7P with -1 AP. I'm running off the core rulebook's "Slugs are 5P -1AP, Flechettes are 7P +5AP" rulings.
Shotguns mostly suck because they are banned from taking a lot of the modifications/accessories that they would need to compete with Automatics. Other than the AA-16, which does have a niche in which it's a solid gun, a properly modded shotgun is just less good than a properly modded AR or BR.
The Remington Roomsweeper is a Pistol that uses some shotgun rules - but it still uses the Pistols skill. It's not a small shotgun, it's a bad pistol. The T-250 still uses Longarms, which is why it's useful despite being kind of meh otherwise. (Also, note that the T-250's 5P is with normal ammo. It's 7P/+4 with shot or flechettes, although you usually want to just use SnS anyways).
I'm sorry for going off on a tangent on the shotgun thing, it's just that the T-250 seems... underwhelming. Even with a short barrel, a shotgun still is noticible. The bonus to hide that gun does not look all that satisfying, particularly when a heavy pistol gets no modifiers with no gun mods required. Plus if you're trying to suggest the sneaky route for the character, shotguns are terrible. I'm under the assumption that a shot fired from a shotgun makes a loud BLAM! noise. One shot and all subtlety goes out a window. You cannot modify a shotgun to take a silencer mod in the game, from what little books I have. Plus the Magazine capacity looks lousy. Reloading a magazine takes a complex action, replacing a Drum Clip is a complex action. The difference is about 19 rounds! And even if you don't use a drum clip, a standard clip uses a simple action, and on the AS-7 a clip is 10 shots! Plus the Agility=Rounds reloaded for magazines... Guh.
Again, sorry, it's just the T-250 just seems like it's really not worth considering in a catagory people tell me that's not worth considering.
Also, I still have the pistols skill at 4. With my agility at 8, it's at 12 dice to roll.
The sawed-off T-250 is fine for when you need to visibly carry a piece. The Enfield AS-7 is cool as well, though the AA-16 is still the best shottie. There was that new shotgun from GH2, the one with a SS Grenade Launcher, and a Bipod for some reason. It was a law enforcement weapon, for storming in and such. Not meant for protracted battles but it's a good alternative when you get access to GH2.
Exactly! That's what I was aiming for! Kick the door down and cause as much damage as possible. I'll take a look at GH2 when I can afford it, but that'll take a while.
Sorta-related note: can you use Martial Arts?
Not yet. That's going to be something I want to learn IN GAME.
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Well, that's the thing: yeah, the T-250 is not as good as a pistol. But the point is that you can use it and then save the 16 bp to have other skills...like better palming. The concealability difference between the T-250 and a heavy pistol is equivalent to 2 more dice of palming. The T-250 isn't why you take Longarms, it's what you use for concealable weapons if you have Longarms because you wanted the Barrett.
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But I'm not going to take Palming. At all. The Longarms skill is there so I can shoot people in the head from far away or close up, the Infiltration is for finding the best sniping spot and then to hide someplace when they try to come find me. I'm not going for stealth for my main shtick. That's terciary at best. I don't have or even want the stuff to make me a better infiltrator. I'm not an infiltrator. I'm not going to become an infiltrator. I'm honest to god aiming for 70% pink mohawk, 30% black trenchcoat. Bang-Bang shooty fun most of the time.
I just want to kill things dead. Like a generic Fighter build in D&D.
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Then why do you have Pistols?
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When you are surprised in a small alley, how easy is it to draw a rifle to shoot someone in an enclosed space?
If the law has an issue with a restricted level 7 hunting rifle, like in the city, wouldn't it look odd to have some random dude carrying a hunting rifle on his back? You don't find much wildlife in a city, at least no wildlife worth stuffing and placing on a mantleplace.
Finally, aren't sidearms to be expected in this setting? A pistol is good for self-defense, right? No matter how many fancy tricks you can do with a butterfly knife, if the guy is out of reach and you only have that knife, you are screwed.
Basically, a Pistol is an insurance plan. When your more obvious toys cannot be brought with you, that pistol will at least give you the ability to kill from a distance, however short that distance may be.
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The sole virtue pistols have is that they are concealable. Palming is the skill for concealing things! 1, 3, and 4 all sound like good reasons to have a concealable weapon, and Longarms+Palming will do that for you better than Longarms+Pistols (albeit not as well as Longarms+Pistols+Palming). You can't want a concealable weapon but not actually want the ability to conceal it!
Also, I think you overestimate how hard the t-250 is to conceal. It's only machine pistol sized. You can stack up concealability modifiers: any of the loltrenchcoats are -2, chameleon coating is -4, and that gets you to a net of -4 which is plenty to hide it with a decent check.
2 is simply not true. In SR, carrying an assault rifle down the street is exactly as legal as openly wearing a pistol down the street - that is, if you have a license, it's OK. Also, cities are in fact full of "wildlife." This is this grimdark 80s future, the streets have gangs, feral ghouls, they do in fact have paracritters, etc.
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The sole virtue pistols have is that they are concealable. Palming is the skill for concealing things! 1, 3, and 4 all sound like good reasons to have a concealable weapon, and Longarms+Palming will do that for you better than Longarms+Pistols (albeit not as well as Longarms+Pistols+Palming). You can't want a concealable weapon but not actually want the ability to conceal it!
What about how commonplace they are? LOT'S of people are carrying in 2012. With Sish going Bananas after the Awakining and Goblinization, wouldn't any mundane seek Insurance against those "darn pointy-eared freaks"? Much less those Mages? As for Concealing and Palming, see your argument below. Why bother palming when the concealment mods so high?
Also, I think you overestimate how hard the t-250 is to conceal. It's only machine pistol sized. You can stack up concealability modifiers: any of the loltrenchcoats are -2, chameleon coating is -4, and that gets you to a net of -4 which is plenty to hide it with a decent check.
But isn't any standard shotgun about SMG sized? Did you remember that barrel reduction only reduces the size to the next size down, and that the T-250's size reduction option is optional? You still have to buy another upgrade to hide it further anyways, but the pistols group has different concealibility modifiers for each tier of size. -4 for Holdouts, -2 for Light, -0 for Heavy. Plus more options for choosing which one works best for you. Also, five shots, then a complex to reload does not sound good to my ears. Less time shooting people trying to kill you never, ever does
2 is simply not true. In SR, carrying an assault rifle down the street is exactly as legal as openly wearing a pistol down the street - that is, if you have a license, it's OK. Also, cities are in fact full of "wildlife." This is this grimdark 80s future, the streets have gangs, feral ghouls, they do in fact have paracritters, etc.
...I truly doubt that a man carrying a fully loaded assult rifle in downtown Seattle in a park accross from the Aztechnology Pyramid would not get pulled in for some questions. After so many years of shadowrunnig being commonplace, don't you think that any self respecting Megacorp would send out some agents to figure out who the "Totally Inconspicuous Dude with the Assult Rifle on his Back" is, or WHY he's carrying an assult rifle? Particularly while looking at the complex while eating a sandwich? No matter how Grimdark the Grimdark future is, context matters a lot.
I'm sorry for leaving while this is still hot, but I gotta head to work soon... however, I would still like to talk about this. Even if I don't agree with you, I'm still having a good time talking. Could we talk again in about four to five hours?
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The sawed-off T-250 is not equivalent to Barrel Reduction.
A normal-sized shotgun is not on the table, but I have a hard time believing it is closer in size to a SMG than a rifle. IRL, an AK-47 is 87 cm long, from what I can tell shotgun length vary but an Ithaca 37 is 125 cm. An Uzi is 47cm (depending on type, might vary). So your GM might rule shotguns are +6 or not at all concealable. If we say clips enough, one of the gun nuts will probably come by and clarify, but I cannot imagine that typical shotguns are closer to SMG size than they are to rifle size. Clips. Clips clips clips. Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
The T-250 sawed-off version (the only version really worth using; the regular-size one is just a mediocre normal shotgun) is explicitly listed as +2.
So, if you compare: defaulting on hiding a Light Pistol with Palming 0 is slightly worse than hiding the T-250 with Palming 4. You can get 1 more die on hiding a holdout, but holdouts actually are worse in combat than the T-250.
...I truly doubt that a man carrying a fully loaded assult rifle in downtown Seattle in a park accross from the Aztechnology Pyramid would not get pulled in for some questions. After so many years of shadowrunnig being commonplace, don't you think that any self respecting Megacorp would send out some agents to figure out who the "Totally Inconspicuous Dude with the Assult Rifle on his Back" is, or WHY he's carrying an assult rifle? Particularly while looking at the complex while eating a sandwich? No matter how Grimdark the Grimdark future is, context matters a lot.
Shadowrun isn't real life. In real life you can't get a civilian permit to just walk around with an assault rifle. In SR you can, and there are lots of answers to why people would have them.
Now, does that mean that people will let you carry it onto any given private property, no, but they won't let you openly carry a pistol everywhere either.
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Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
First ye' bait the hook...
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For the record, and I mean this with no disrespt, you are about to the point you should be ignoring Umaro, if you feel that you'd rather have pistols then longarms because you feel it'd be easier to be subtle with a pistol then do so. Once you've crossed that threshhold from having a character that sounds good in your head but is terrible in practice to something that works in actual game play you can essentially stop optimizing and just go with what you think you'll enjoy most and get the most milliage out of early.
Umaro will tell you in fine detail what makes the best character on paper, point wise, that's not to say it will be the best character in all situations. Personally I am completely in agreement with you, carrying a full shotgun or rifle in downtown Seattle or any civilized area of Seattle will get you noticed by the cops, and even if it is technically legal in most places will get you extra scrutiny. Since your always one license failure away from having a "really bad day" a subtle option pays well.
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Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
First ye' bait the hook...
By the way, did you know that all assault rifles are the same caliber, and so are all sport rifles?
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Personally I am completely in agreement with you, carrying a full shotgun or rifle in downtown Seattle or any civilized area of Seattle will get you noticed by the cops, and even if it is technically legal in most places will get you extra scrutiny. Since your always one license failure away from having a "really bad day" a subtle option pays well.
Here's where I disagree: I think that carrying a AK-47 through downtown Seattle strapped to your back, and (openly) carrying a pistol through downtown Seattle will get you the same level of scrutiny from the police, whatever that level is. In SR, not real life, of course.
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But Pistols come in 3 calibers 8)
And as a point, those who call "mags" "clips" in my game get horrendously made fun of by more intelligent NPCs.
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Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
First ye' bait the hook...
By the way, did you know that all assault rifles are the same caliber, and so are all sport rifles?
And no SMG shares ammo calibers with pistols!
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Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
First ye' bait the hook...
By the way, did you know that all assault rifles are the same caliber, and so are all sport rifles?
And no SMG shares ammo calibers with pistols!
Especially not machine pistols - after all, those are totally different from SMGs. No surprise, really.
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A normal-sized shotgun is not on the table, but I have a hard time believing it is closer in size to a SMG than a rifle. IRL, an AK-47 is 87 cm long, from what I can tell shotgun length vary but an Ithaca 37 is 125 cm. An Uzi is 47cm (depending on type, might vary).
Actually, in the USA at least, the minimum legal length for a civilian shotgun is only 66cm total, with a minimum 46cm barrel, and they make several models that are that short down to the millimeter, because they sell well for people who want "home defense" shotguns.
And that's the legal civilian minimum. An illegal shotgun, or one designed for use only by LEOs or soldiers for CQB and "breaching", could get quite a bit shorter; easily down into the mid--to-low 50s.
In short, I would assume the shotguns that mention being "tactical" are more concealable than the "hunting" guns, and the F-code weapons are more concealable than the R-code "tactical" guns.
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I'm back...
And as a point, those who call "mags" "clips" in my game get horrendously made fun of by more intelligent NPCs.
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Clips. Clips clips clips. Clips and magazines mean the same thing.
Gah, I knew the Clip/Mag thing would bite me in the ass...
OK, my basic goal of creating this version of the character was to make someone who was reasonably able to take care of combat, no matter the range. Using a rifle for long/mid range, a pistol or a shotgun for mid/short range, and a knife for short/face to face encounters. I did not intend to be the sneaky guy. I would much rather be the backup plan for when things go wrong. I thought that a sports rifle would be a more interesting choice of weapon then the typical assult rifle. Also, that a shotgun could reasonably make up for full auto by spraying a lot of buckshot in the air, particularly for early in the game when you need to get a name for yourself by blowing holes in gang members with little to no armor. The pistol was the last ranged weapon, to be used when a rifle would have been impratical. If I was going into the Ork Underground, it would be silly to say that I could weild a rifle just as well as a pistol in a room the size as a bus station bathroom. Plus, I assumed that having a backup skill to fall back on would be a good idea when things got tits up. Essentially, I wanted to be the Street Samurai. Good at killing things quickly, no questions asked.
Here, lemme post the Attributes and skills.
Body 4 (5)
Agility 5 (8 )
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 4 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
---Skills---
Groups
• Athletics Group 2
Combat
• Blades 7 =15
• Longarms 4 =12
• Pistols 4 =12
Physical
• Climbing 2 =9
• Gymnastics 2 =10
• Infiltration 1 =9
• Perception 4 =8
• Running 2 =9
• Survival (Urban) 3 (+2) =6 ( 8 )
• Swimming 2 =9
Technical
• Armorer 3 =5
Knowledge
• Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
• Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
• Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
• German 4
• Russian 3
• English (Natural) NA
Most of what I have up here relies on Agility, so why not focus on those skills that would make mincemeat out of enemies?
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One last thing.
Reading from the reloading firearms table, it says that a removable clip takes a simple action to reload, while an internal magazine takes a complex action to reload
Thus the whole Clips/Mags debacle is now explained!
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If you plan to use the Barrett at some point in the future (I agree it's not really worth Restricted Gear), then Pistols/Longarms is an OK weapon choice - but it really does need Palming to back the Pistols part up. Even Palming 1. Actually, that would be a good idea for the blades, too. What's the point of using ceramic knives if you don't have the skill you need to actually conceal the ceramic knife? I would cut a point of Survival and get Palming 1. Other than that, I don't see any major issues.
Also, on the clips/magazines thing, I was actually just making a joke about that being the best way to get the people who actually know about guns to show up.
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If you plan to use the Barrett at some point in the future (I agree it's not really worth Restricted Gear), then Pistols/Longarms is an OK weapon choice - but it really does need Palming to back the Pistols part up. Even Palming 1. Actually, that would be a good idea for the blades, too. What's the point of using ceramic knives if you don't have the skill you need to actually conceal the ceramic knife? I would cut a point of Survival and get Palming 1. Other than that, I don't see any major issues.
Also, on the clips/magazines thing, I was actually just making a joke about that being the best way to get the people who actually know about guns to show up.
Kay... that doesn't seem too bad... a single die won't matter too much to me... and hiding illegal weapons is always a good idea...
...
...so are we going to argue about the shotgun thing again? Because the whole thing wore me down to a stub. :P
In all seriousness, once I get enough nuyen for the Barrett, I'm definately getting it. However, you did mention a really good Sport Rifle in GH2. What was that called again? I was thinking that when I could afford that PDF, then when I could afford the gun, I would use that as my main weapon.
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Oh, yeah, one more thing. Thanks for the honest opinions. I really appreciate the help, man.
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The Terracotta Arms Caravan. Keep in mind I'm not saying it's a great gun, just a great sporting rifle.
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Personally I am completely in agreement with you, carrying a full shotgun or rifle in downtown Seattle or any civilized area of Seattle will get you noticed by the cops, and even if it is technically legal in most places will get you extra scrutiny. Since your always one license failure away from having a "really bad day" a subtle option pays well.
Here's where I disagree: I think that carrying a AK-47 through downtown Seattle strapped to your back, and (openly) carrying a pistol through downtown Seattle will get you the same level of scrutiny from the police, whatever that level is. In SR, not real life, of course.
Have to agree here. IMO, since both can be carried with a permit by the game rules, if the GM is making life more difficult for the players with assault rifles than with pistols (assuming all are carrying R rather than F versions of their respective weapons) then he is using far too much 'realism', in my opinion.
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The Terracotta Arms Caravan. Keep in mind I'm not saying it's a great gun, just a great sporting rifle.
Yeah, I'll keep your sniper rifle reccomendation in mind. Thanks again!
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Well, that's that...
I'm finally finished tweaking my character to the point where I'm satisfied with his stats. I'll post below.
Paul Meixner (Commlinks registration)
---Attributes---
Body 4 (5)
Agility 5 ( 8 )
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 4 (7)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4
Initiative 10
Passes 2
Condition (Stun) 10
Condition (Physical) 11
---Qualities---
<Positive>
Bioware Compatability
Erased II
High Pain Tolerance II
Restricted Gear
>Negative<
Hung Out to Dry
Amnesia
Flashbacks - Uncommon
Scorched
Sensitive Neural Structure
---Skills---
Groups
Athletics Group 2
Combat
Blades 7 =13
Longarms 4 =12
Pistols 4 =12
Physical
Climbing 2 =9
Gymnastics 2 =8
Infiltration 1 =9
Palming 1 =9
Perception 4 =8
Running 2 =9
Survival (Urban) 2 (+2) =5 (7)
Swimming 2 =9
Technical
Armorer 3 =5
Knowledge
Cooking (Grilling/BBQ) 2 (3)
Bars (Go-Ganger/Biker Bars) 3 (4)
Boltholes (Seattle) 3 (4)
Language
German 4
Russian 3
English (Natural) NA
Cyberware
2 Modular customized lower cyberlegs with skimmer disks, Armor +2
Bioware
Synthcardium II
Synaptic Booster I
Suprathyroid Gland
Muscle Augmentation II
Muscle Toner II
Weapons
Melee
Katar, personalized grip, custom look (I), Gecko Grip.
o Matte black, with silver ivy engravings, bearing XIII on both sides.
Ceramic Knife
Bayonet (attached) X 2
Firearms
Ruger Super Warhawk, custom grip, custom look (I), concealable Holster, speed loader, default smartgun, Firing Selection small (semi-auto).
o Matte black, with silver ivy engravings, bearing the words Paranoia is a Survival Trait on the barrel. Handle is of dark wood.
Enfield AS-7, Drum Clips, folding stock, custom grip, Foregrip, Firing Selection small (Full auto), sling.
Mannlicher Wildhόter, top mounted imaging scope, shock pad, custom look (I), Sling, Firing Selection small (semi-auto).
o Scrimshaw of Peter Nicolai Arbos Εsgεrdsreien (1872) in micarta on the stock.
Thrown
2 Flashpaks
Gear
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit
Helmet (Ballistic/Impact - +1/+2)
Light Stick (10)
Medkit (Rating 6)
Survival Kit
Stimulant Patch (Rating 6) X 6
Trauma Patch
Grapple Gun
Flashlight
Earbuds
+ Audio Enhancement III
+ Select Sound Filter III
Gas Mask
Glasses
+ Flare Compensation
+ Vision Magnification
+ Low Light
+ Vision Enhancement III
Contacts
+ Smartlink
Fake SINs
Paul Meixner UCAS Citizen, Paranimal Hunter Level 4 fake
Fake Licenses
Paul Meixner Katar Level 4 fake
Paul Meixner Ruger Super Warhawk Level 4 fake
Paul Meixner Mannlicher Wildhόter Level 4 fake
Paul Meixner Concealed Carry Level 4 fake
Commlink
Renraku Sensei with Renraku Ichi OS
Ammo
90 heavy pistol rounds
60 ex-EX heavy pistol rounds
60 sports rifle rounds
2 flashpaks
Cash left over: 1860 nuyen
The bad news is that I will not be using this character for a while or playing Shadowrun at all, for at least three months, due to changing circumstances in my life. As you can imagine, this sucks eggs to a whole new level. I'll still be sticking around, just less often.
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Oh...Para-Critter hunter would be a SEPARATE permit from your fake SIN...
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Looks good. Just curious, but did you buy "normal" cyberfeet to plug-in?
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Looks good. Just curious, but did you buy "normal" cyberfeet to plug-in?
No, I paid an extra 1000 for modular. The plug-in's were listed under modular plug-ins, so, modular lower legs made sense.
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Oh...Para-Critter hunter would be a SEPARATE permit from your fake SIN...
Well, I have enough cash for another permit, so I'll pay for a 400 nuyen one.