Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: TheLonewolfA on <12-04-12/2054:57>
-
This is my first Shadowrun character, and I've never tried actually playing with the mechanics. After reading 4e, I had a very clear character concept, and did my best to build that with 400 BP. If it's ridiculous, please let me know. I used "Chummer", and the corebook to create the character, and I think there's some bugs or limitations.
Name: Alexander Whitehall
Alias: "Paladin"
Metatype: Elf
Attributes
BOD: 3 (3)
AGI: 6 (6)
REA: 4 (5)
STR: 3 (3)
CHA: 5
INT: 3
LOG: 3
WIL: 4
EDG: 2
Skills: (Active)
Blades: 5 (Swords +2)
Leadership: 5 (Tactics +2)
Pistols: 4
Dodge: 3
Athletics Group: 3
Unarmed Combat: 2
Intimidation: 2
Etiquette: 2
Perception: 2
Pilot Ground Craft: 1
Skills: (Knowledge)
English: N (Read/Write)
Japanese: 3
Combat Tactics: 2 (Urban)
Security Tactics: 2 (Security Company)
Security Companies: 2 (Knight-Errant)
Firearms: 1
Gaming: 1
History: 1
Literature: 1
Politics: 1
Religion: 1
Qualities: (Positive)
Ambidextrous
Aptitude: (Blades)
First Impression
Guts
Low-Light Vision
Qualities: (Negative)
Bad Luck
SINner: (Renraku)
Contacts
Fixer: (Loyalty 1, Connections 3)
Street Doc: (Loyalty 2, Connections 2)
Enemies
Mr. Johnson: (Connection 4, Incidence 2)
Resources: 18 (90,000 nuyen)
Cyberware
Obvious Full Arm: Alpha (Armor 2, Enhanced Agility 3, Enhanced Body 3, Enhanced Strength 3)
Wired Reflexes: Alpha (1)
Street Gear
Lifestyle: Low (3 Months)
Lined Coat: (Fire Resist 6, Insulation 6, Nonconductivity 6)
Katana
Ares Predator IV: (Smartlink, Quick-Draw Holster, Spare Clips)
Renraku Sensei Commlink: (Renraku Ichi OS)
Contact Lenses: 2 (Imagelink, Smartlink)
Fake SIN: 3
Fake License: 3 (Katana)
Fake License: 3 (Ares Predator IV)
300 Regular Ammo: (Heavy Pistols)
90 Explosive Rounds: (Heavy Pistols)
90 APDS Rounds: (Heavy Pistols)
90 Stick-n-Shock Rounds: (Heavy Pistols)
90 Flechette Rounds: (Heavy Pistols)
Mercury Comet (Sedan)
His mother, a Renraku Exec, raises him to use him as her own personal Shadowrunner, and sends him to join Ares' Knight-Errant, . He does well enough, until his mother's rival within Renraku, determined to see the both of them fail, sends his own team of Shadowrunners to make sure her boy on the inside is eliminated. Alexander is not killed in the attack, but loses his arm. Fed up with simply existing to do his mother's bidding, and unwilling to live his life according to the whims of the corporations, Alexander leaves Knight-Errant, and sets out to begin a new life; one that he dictates.
Taking his savings and severence from Ares, "Paladin" intends to gain friends and resources, to regain his personal honor by helping others who might be used as the pawns of the corps, and maybe one day, teach his mother that people's lives are not to be toyed with.
-
Okay. Not a bad first attempt. Combining the Street Sam and Face party roles are what Elves are for.
My proposed changes are designed to make you better at: Face skills, Fighting, Driving, Investigating, and not getting dead. These are useful things to be good at. I haven't added anything that will make you brokenly good. Just various modest boosts to many aspects of your character.
Attributes:
Agility: 6 (this is a good natural score to have before we begin augmenting it). We can get this to 9 with appropriate augmentations. After earning some more money in game you'll be able to get this to 10 - your augmented maximum. Agility is very useful. It is worth the effort to max.
Body: 3 is perilously low. Body affects the amount of armor you can wear and how many boxes of physical damage you can take based on the formula 8 + 1/2 body rounded UP. Due to rounding, it's more efficient to have you body score be an odd number. I'd suggest 4 or 5, before augmentations. You could get this to 4 by dropping strength to 2. Try to aim for 5, if you can find the points though.
Charisma: a elf should aim for 7. We are going to find the points for this by removing points from reaction.
Intuition: You want this at 5. It's an extremely important stat that is very hard to boost. It helps determine your initiative and your chance to perceive things. Your character will live or die by these rolls.
Logic: You want this stat low. If your GM is a jerk, set it to 2. If he's not, drop it to 1. None of your active skills Logic, so it's a complete waste for you. Take points out of this and pump up Intuition.
Reaction: Reaction is also very important. However it is also very easy to augment. Drop it down to 3, and our choice of augmentations will take this all the way up to 9. You really want to get to 9 because of how important initiative is.
Strength: Also not a really good stat. Drop it to 1 and we'll use inexpensive augmentations to bring this back up to a decent number. Electrical weapons like stun batons, shock gloves, and armor equipped with shock frills are very useful in hand to hand combat, and deal damage that is not based on your strength. Your chance to hit is always based on agility, so for most people, being effective in melee has nothing to do with their strength. We want our strength score, after augmentation, at 2 to 3 just so you can still carry around a decent amount of gear.
Willpower: Drop this to 3, or all the way down to 1. Willpower tends to come into play when resisting magic (although sometimes intuition is used instead). Even a 5 willpower won't stop most mages from seriously messing you up (you win by killing them first). Aim for an odd number because your stun damage track is 8 + 1/2 Willpower rounded UP.
Comments on Your Augmentations:
Cyperarm: These are used for stat replacement. Like if you had a really shitty agility, you could just lop of one of your arms and buy a replacement that had a really awesome agility. Then for tasks that only use that arm, you'd be awesome. For some types of characters, this an awesome option. For your elf, not so much.
Wired reflexes rating 1 is pretty feeble. If you want to survive combat, you want a much higher reaction score, and it wouldn't hurt to have more than 2 initiative passes.
My suggested augmentations: (note you'll need to change your character's qualities to qualify for some of this gear)
Attention Coprocessor (from augmentation): It's a +3 to all perception rolls for 9000 Nuyen and 0.3 essence. It's a fantastic deal. You probably roll perception more than you will roll all other skills combined. And oftentimes, the results of a perception check are really, really important.
Move-by-wire rating 2. This is from the Augmentation sourcebook. It gives you Skillwires for free and huge boost to your reaction score. You'll have 3 initiative passes, which is rock solid for someone who expects to do combat. Because of it's high availability rating,
Reaction enhances rating 1 from the core rulebook. These stack by move-by-wire and Superthyroid gland. Between these 3 augmentations, you're increasing your reaction from 3 all the way to your augmented maximum of 9! That's really good.
Muscle Toner Rating 2 from the core rulebook. This will give a much appreciated boost to your agility taking it from 6 to 8. High agility is very, very useful because agility is used for so many important skills. After character generation, when you have the cash, you'll want to replace these with a Rating 4 version to max out your agility. It won't cost very much, so this is a good goal to have.
Superthyroid Gland: from the core rulebook. This will boost your Agility, Body, and Strength by 1.
Muscle Augmentation Rating 1 or 2 from the core rulebook: Buy (or don't buy) up to rating 2. Whatever it takes to get your strength up to a number that you feel comfortable with. This MUCH cheaper than buying up your natural strength attribute at 10 BP per point. Also, remember that your superthyroid gland is also adding 1 to your strength.
Platelet Factories from the core rulebook: Kinda optional. This is very good for reducing the amount of physical damage you take.
Commentary on Your Positive Qualities:
Ambidexterity is very mediocre. Dual-weilding weapons is actually not very effective because you have to split your dicepools when making simulatneous attacks.
Aptitude,- regardless of what skill you take it for - is worthless. It's just a SUPER expensive way to gain a solitary extra die for a single skill. It's garbage.
First Impression: This a keeper. Good choice. Very low cost for a frequently applicable, situational bonus to all your social skills.
Guts: Well at least it's cheap, but I can't recommend it. A +2 bonus to a very small number of rolls that may never come into play is not really a great deal. While it's the same number of bonus dice as First Impression, at least with that quality will get frequent use.
Commentary on Your negative qualities:
Bad Luck: Never take this. NEVER. Even if it gave you 35 BP back, it would still be a raw deal. You are a danger to yourself and your party. Almost any other negative quality you could choose would be less harmful than this.
Sinner: It's okay. In the game I'm in, this should be a positive quality. That's not typical though. Sinner combines very nicely with another positive quality called Erased (talked about later).
My suggested positive qualities:
First Impression: as I said, it's a keeper.
Restricted Gear: Move-by-wire rating 2. This allows you to buy this awesome augmentation during character generation.
Restricted Gear: Superthyroid Gland: This allows you to buy this awesome augmentation during character generation.
Erased: Take the 10 point version. This will keep unwanted personal information from getting into the hands of your enemies. It's very, very good, especially for a Sinner. Even if the rest of your group consists of nothing but hackers, they still couldn't do as good of job of sweeping away your unwanted data trail as the 10 point version of this quality.
10 points left over. With these 10 points, my characters would pick up Class II SURGE (Runner's Companion sourcebook). I don't know how much power your character needs. SURGE can help make you considerably better at either fighting or face duties, as well as making you less vulnerable to all kinds of magic. You do end up being very distinctive, however. More conservatively - if you are running out of gear NuYen, you could pick up Generitc Heritage (Augmentation sourcebook) and choose Genetic Optimization for either Agility or Reaction.
My suggested negative qualities:
NOT Bad Luck
NOT Gremlins
Enemy and Sinner are okay by me.
let's see. I tend to like 30 points of the In-debt quality (Runner's companion), but some GM's have some very stupid ideas about how it works. Safer suggestions then: Addiction (Mild) to something appropriate - like Betel, which you are going to end up addicted to anyway, since it's a fantasticly useful drug. Prejudiced is not to bad either. Dependents is a real vulnerability, but nice for fleshing out a character. Scorched would be okay for explaining why your guy hasn't built up any matrix skills.
But don't take Bad Luck. Or Gremlins. Seriously.
Skills
Blades 5 - You really can't dabble in melee combatant and expect to survive. You have to be really good at melee combat to get good results. However, if you use electrical weapons like stun gloves, or armor modified by shock frills, you can do okay with just a high agility and 4 ranks of unarmed combat. But a katana with only 2 IP's, a 3 body, 4 Str, 5 Reaction, 6 Agility, will just get you killed. Recommend you replace with unarmed rank 4.
Various Social Skills: Drop these and buy the influence group at 4. Con, Etiquette, Leadership, and Negotiate are all very useful skills. Most skill groups suck, but the Influence skill group is outstanding, especially for an elf. If you have enough BP, you can also buy Intimidate, if for some reason you think that the four above skills aren't enough variety.
Perception: Really try to get this up to 4.
Pistols: I think pistols suck. I'd rather see 6 ranks in automatics. Use a machine pistol if you want something small. SMG's, Assault Rifles, and Battle Rifles are all very good weapons groups that are all governed by the Automatics skill. Many of these weapons are only restricted, not Illegal, so you can actually wander around many civilized urban areas with an assault rifle, unlike IRL.
Infiltration: You don't have this skill, and you really should. It can help you avoid some needless conflict. It is part of the Stealth skill group, which is an okay group to buy, but you probably won't have the BP to afford another group. So just buy up Infiltrate.
Driving stuff: 1 rank is okay, because if you use the suggested augmentations, your reaction attribute is going to be doing the heavy lifting.
Other Gear:
You should allocate 50 BP to Gear NuYen (that's 250,000 NuYen). As a non-magical character, you will live or die based on the quality of your gear (including augmentations). Buy A LOT of augmentations. Probably more than 175,000 should go into your augmentations. The rest should go to other types of gear.
Buy contact lenses (rating 3) and glasses (rating 4). On the contacts: Image Link + Smart Link + Vision Enhancement (at rating 3). On the Glasses: Ultra-wideband RADAR (uses 2 capacity), flare compensation, and vision magnification.
For armor, start with Form Fitting Body Armor (FFBA), and add pieces of PPP (both from Arsenal sourcebook). Then pick any kind of armored clothing (there are several lines mentioned in the armor section of Arsenal) to wear on top of them. None of this armor is obvious, so you will enjoy good protection, without looking like you are geared up to fight a ground war. Note that FFBA only counts 1/2 towards encumbrance, so you'll be able to exceed the 2xbody cap that normally applies to armor. This will really help your survivability.
Get a Hermes Ikon comlink. Buy a Rating 3 Agent. Buy a bunch of common-use programs at rating 3 (or rating 6 with level 2 optimization program option for each program). Whenever your character needs basic computed stuff done, just tell your agent to take care of it. Not having any computer skills and no agent and no programs is weird.
-
Depending on how central of a face you want to be, take the Influence Group and buy yourself some tailored pheromones, it is pretty much a requirement for a mundane face, as it is the only way you're going to be able to compete with (i.e. come close to, because you'll never be as good as) a Face Adept.
-
Okay. Not a bad first attempt. Combining the Street Sam and Face party roles are what Elves are for.
My proposed changes are designed to make you better at: Face skills, Fighting, Driving, Investigating, and not getting dead. These are useful things to be good at. I haven't added anything that will make you brokenly good. Just various modest boosts to many aspects of your character.
Attributes:
Agility: 6 (this is a good natural score to have before we begin augmenting it). We can get this to 9 with appropriate augmentations. After earning some more money in game you'll be able to get this to 10 - your augmented maximum. Agility is very useful. It is worth the effort to max.
Body: 3 is perilously low. Body affects the amount of armor you can wear and how many boxes of physical damage you can take based on the formula 8 + 1/2 body rounded UP. Due to rounding, it's more efficient to have you body score be an odd number. I'd suggest 4 or 5, before augmentations. You could get this to 4 by dropping strength to 2. Try to aim for 5, if you can find the points though.
Charisma: a elf should aim for 7. We are going to find the points for this by removing points from reaction.
Intuition: You want this at 5. It's an extremely important stat that is very hard to boost. It helps determine your initiative and your chance to perceive things. Your character will live or die by these rolls.
Logic: You want this stat low. If your GM is a jerk, set it to 2. If he's not, drop it to 1. None of your active skills Logic, so it's a complete waste for you. Take points out of this and pump up Intuition.
Reaction: Reaction is also very important. However it is also very easy to augment. Drop it down to 3, and our choice of augmentations will take this all the way up to 9. You really want to get to 9 because of how important initiative is.
Strength: Also not a really good stat. Drop it to 1 and we'll use inexpensive augmentations to bring this back up to a decent number. Electrical weapons like stun batons, shock gloves, and armor equipped with shock frills are very useful in hand to hand combat, and deal damage that is not based on your strength. Your chance to hit is always based on agility, so for most people, being effective in melee has nothing to do with their strength. We want our strength score, after augmentation, at 2 to 3 just so you can still carry around a decent amount of gear.
Willpower: Drop this to 3, or all the way down to 1. Willpower tends to come into play when resisting magic (although sometimes intuition is used instead). Even a 5 willpower won't stop most mages from seriously messing you up (you win by killing them first). Aim for an odd number because your stun damage track is 8 + 1/2 Willpower rounded UP.
Comments on Your Augmentations:
Cyperarm: These are used for stat replacement. Like if you had a really shitty agility, you could just lop of one of your arms and buy a replacement that had a really awesome agility. Then for tasks that only use that arm, you'd be awesome. For some types of characters, this an awesome option. For your elf, not so much.
Wired reflexes rating 1 is pretty feeble. If you want to survive combat, you want a much higher reaction score, and it wouldn't hurt to have more than 2 initiative passes.
My suggested augmentations: (note you'll need to change your character's qualities to qualify for some of this gear)
Attention Coprocessor (from augmentation): It's a +3 to all perception rolls for 9000 Nuyen and 0.3 essence. It's a fantastic deal. You probably roll perception more than you will roll all other skills combined. And oftentimes, the results of a perception check are really, really important.
Move-by-wire rating 2. This is from the Augmentation sourcebook. It gives you Skillwires for free and huge boost to your reaction score. You'll have 3 initiative passes, which is rock solid for someone who expects to do combat. Because of it's high availability rating,
Reaction enhances rating 1 from the core rulebook. These stack by move-by-wire and Superthyroid gland. Between these 3 augmentations, you're increasing your reaction from 3 all the way to your augmented maximum of 9! That's really good.
Muscle Toner Rating 2 from the core rulebook. This will give a much appreciated boost to your agility taking it from 6 to 8. High agility is very, very useful because agility is used for so many important skills. After character generation, when you have the cash, you'll want to replace these with a Rating 4 version to max out your agility. It won't cost very much, so this is a good goal to have.
Superthyroid Gland: from the core rulebook. This will boost your Agility, Body, and Strength by 1.
Muscle Augmentation Rating 1 or 2 from the core rulebook: Buy (or don't buy) up to rating 2. Whatever it takes to get your strength up to a number that you feel comfortable with. This MUCH cheaper than buying up your natural strength attribute at 10 BP per point. Also, remember that your superthyroid gland is also adding 1 to your strength.
Platelet Factories from the core rulebook: Kinda optional. This is very good for reducing the amount of physical damage you take.
The only things I can agree with on the attributes are Willpower 3 and the importance of Agility. Logic 3 is metahuman average, and IMO unless it is key to the concept all characters should at least be of average intellect.
Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a colossal waste.
Commentary on Your negative qualities:
Bad Luck: Never take this. NEVER. Even if it gave you 35 BP back, it would still be a raw deal. You are a danger to yourself and your party. Almost any other negative quality you could choose would be less harmful than this.
Sinner: It's okay. In the game I'm in, this should be a positive quality. That's not typical though. Sinner combines very nicely with another positive quality called Erased (talked about later).
My suggested positive qualities:
First Impression: as I said, it's a keeper.
Restricted Gear: Move-by-wire rating 2. This allows you to buy this awesome augmentation during character generation.
Restricted Gear: Superthyroid Gland: This allows you to buy this awesome augmentation during character generation.
Erased: Take the 10 point version. This will keep unwanted personal information from getting into the hands of your enemies. It's very, very good, especially for a Sinner. Even if the rest of your group consists of nothing but hackers, they still couldn't do as good of job of sweeping away your unwanted data trail as the 10 point version of this quality.
10 points left over. With these 10 points, my characters would pick up Class II SURGE (Runner's Companion sourcebook). I don't know how much power your character needs. SURGE can help make you considerably better at either fighting or face duties, as well as making you less vulnerable to all kinds of magic. You do end up being very distinctive, however. More conservatively - if you are running out of gear NuYen, you could pick up Generitc Heritage (Augmentation sourcebook) and choose Genetic Optimization for either Agility or Reaction.
My suggested negative qualities:
NOT Bad Luck
NOT Gremlins
Enemy and Sinner are okay by me.
let's see. I tend to like 30 points of the In-debt quality (Runner's companion), but some GM's have some very stupid ideas about how it works. Safer suggestions then: Addiction (Mild) to something appropriate - like Betel, which you are going to end up addicted to anyway, since it's a fantasticly useful drug. Prejudiced is not to bad either. Dependents is a real vulnerability, but nice for fleshing out a character. Scorched would be okay for explaining why your guy hasn't built up any matrix skills.
But don't take Bad Luck. Or Gremlins. Seriously.
Bad Luck isn't necessarily a bad thing to take. Just don't put any points into Edge, and don't use it, and you're golden with Bad Luck. Gremlins, meh, it can be bad, but if it fits the character, it's fine.
With the Restricted Gear qualities, as I stated before, Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a phenomenal waste of resources in creation, and having more than 2 passes is pretty pointless.
Skills
Blades 5 - You really can't dabble in melee combatant and expect to survive. You have to be really good at melee combat to get good results. However, if you use electrical weapons like stun gloves, or armor modified by shock frills, you can do okay with just a high agility and 4 ranks of unarmed combat. But a katana with only 2 IP's, a 3 body, 4 Str, 5 Reaction, 6 Agility, will just get you killed. Recommend you replace with unarmed rank 4.
Various Social Skills: Drop these and buy the influence group at 4. Con, Etiquette, Leadership, and Negotiate are all very useful skills. Most skill groups suck, but the Influence skill group is outstanding, especially for an elf. If you have enough BP, you can also buy Intimidate, if for some reason you think that the four above skills aren't enough variety.
Perception: Really try to get this up to 4.
Pistols: I think pistols suck. I'd rather see 6 ranks in automatics. Use a machine pistol if you want something small. SMG's, Assault Rifles, and Battle Rifles are all very good weapons groups that are all governed by the Automatics skill. Many of these weapons are only restricted, not Illegal, so you can actually wander around many civilized urban areas with an assault rifle, unlike IRL.
Infiltration: You don't have this skill, and you really should. It can help you avoid some needless conflict. It is part of the Stealth skill group, which is an okay group to buy, but you probably won't have the BP to afford another group. So just buy up Infiltrate.
Driving stuff: 1 rank is okay, because if you use the suggested augmentations, your reaction attribute is going to be doing the heavy lifting.
Blades: If the skill makes more sense for his character than Unarmed, then he should keep it.
Pistols: It is quite all right as a skill, there is no point in taking only Automatics and going full-auto all the time (especially since not even the military trains to use full-auto that much as it's a waste of ammo).
Two or three ranks in Infiltration might not hurt.
Driving: Pilot Groundcraft at 1 with a specialty in Wheeled is a great deal for a non-Rigger.
Other Gear:
You should allocate 50 BP to Gear NuYen (that's 250,000 NuYen). As a non-magical character, you will live or die based on the quality of your gear (including augmentations). Buy A LOT of augmentations. Probably more than 175,000 should go into your augmentations. The rest should go to other types of gear.
Buy contact lenses (rating 3) and glasses (rating 4). On the contacts: Image Link + Smart Link + Vision Enhancement (at rating 3). On the Glasses: Ultra-wideband RADAR (uses 2 capacity), flare compensation, and vision magnification.
For armor, start with Form Fitting Body Armor (FFBA), and add pieces of PPP (both from Arsenal sourcebook). Then pick any kind of armored clothing (there are several lines mentioned in the armor section of Arsenal) to wear on top of them. None of this armor is obvious, so you will enjoy good protection, without looking like you are geared up to fight a ground war. Note that FFBA only counts 1/2 towards encumbrance, so you'll be able to exceed the 2xbody cap that normally applies to armor. This will really help your survivability.
Get a Hermes Ikon comlink. Buy a Rating 3 Agent. Buy a bunch of common-use programs at rating 3 (or rating 6 with level 2 optimization program option for each program). Whenever your character needs basic computed stuff done, just tell your agent to take care of it. Not having any computer skills and no agent and no programs is weird.
Novatech Airware with Iris Orb comm link with rating 6 Analyze and Encrypt (both with Optimization 3) and a rating 3 Browse should be sufficient provided he takes 1 rank in Data Search (without the Data Search, then the Browse program is unnecessary for him).
-
Just a few comments on things that might not always be the same from group to group;
Sinner: It's okay. In the game I'm in, this should be a positive quality. That's not typical though. Sinner combines very nicely with another positive quality called Erased (talked about later).
Erased: Take the 10 point version. This will keep unwanted personal information from getting into the hands of your enemies. It's very, very good, especially for a Sinner. Even if the rest of your group consists of nothing but hackers, they still couldn't do as good of job of sweeping away your unwanted data trail as the 10 point version of this quality.
Where I've played, taking both was the equivalent of putting your true SIN outside the reach of the Erased quality. Definitely something to talk over with your GM first.
Safer suggestions then: Addiction (Mild) to something appropriate - like Betel, which you are going to end up addicted to anyway, since it's a fantasticly useful drug.
Again, something I'd look deeper into; if your GM takes negative qualities as something chosen by players to bring negative consequences into the game (shock horror), then taking a safe and cheap addiction (Betel addiction never goes beyond mild) is almost asking for it to end up cut with other drugs, or worse.
Pistols: I think pistols suck. I'd rather see 6 ranks in automatics. Use a machine pistol if you want something small. SMG's, Assault Rifles, and Battle Rifles are all very good weapons groups that are all governed by the Automatics skill. Many of these weapons are only restricted, not Illegal, so you can actually wander around many civilized urban areas with an assault rifle, unlike IRL.
There's a difference between legal and concerning for authorities. If you draw too much attention to yourself, authorities may perceive you as a threat. This is also a world where "Low Threat Subjects" are unarmed SINless beggars, or the like. There are guns specifically intended for use against such targets.
Buy contact lenses (rating 3) and glasses (rating 4). On the contacts: Image Link + Smart Link + Vision Enhancement (at rating 3). On the Glasses: Ultra-wideband RADAR (uses 2 capacity), flare compensation, and vision magnification.
I'd go with contacts (2) Vision Enhancement (3) + Flare Compensation, then glasses (4) Image Link + Smart Link + Thermographic + Vision Magnification. Ultrawideband Radar is a sensor, not a visual enhancement.
For armor, start with Form Fitting Body Armor (FFBA), and add pieces of PPP (both from Arsenal sourcebook). Then pick any kind of armored clothing (there are several lines mentioned in the armor section of Arsenal) to wear on top of them. None of this armor is obvious, so you will enjoy good protection, without looking like you are geared up to fight a ground war. Note that FFBA only counts 1/2 towards encumbrance, so you'll be able to exceed the 2xbody cap that normally applies to armor. This will really help your survivability.
Form-fitting body armour at 6/2 is as obvious as this (http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/031/189/194/trimmed/31189011_28357194_trimmed.jpg), unless your group specifically ignores the description. It covers your torso, every limb, gloves, booties and skintight hood. You will be conspicuous while wearing the full suit, but more like a ninja or stage hand than geared up for war. That's milspec armour. On that note, if you are using War! (the book), get Softweave armour fabrics.
-
Where I've played, taking both was the equivalent of putting your true SIN outside the reach of the Erased quality. Definitely something to talk over with your GM first.
If the data trail of the real SIN isn't being affected by the Erased, then you're getting screwed. With both, you're either breaking even or spending 5 points, so it's a wash.
Form-fitting body armour at 6/2 is as obvious as this (http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/031/189/194/trimmed/31189011_28357194_trimmed.jpg), unless your group specifically ignores the description. It covers your torso, every limb, gloves, booties and skintight hood. You will be conspicuous while wearing the full suit, but more like a ninja or stage hand than geared up for war. That's milspec armour. On that note, if you are using War! (the book), get Softweave armour fabrics.
The booties will probably be covered by your shoes, the hood does not have to always be worn up (and no, the protection does NOT decrease without GM-Screw ruling). Torso and limbs are the same as the booties, they'll be covered by clothing. The gloves, big whoop. Wearing gloves will NOT make you conspicuous.
-
Thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the input.
Are the mechanics really that unforgiving? The GM was pretty clear that we would start off at the beginning of our career, after reading the corebook, I assumed that meant like... street-gang stuff, low-level courier, etc.. Not exactly making high-level corp raids, yet, right?
I should've been clearer on the concept. When I read "Street-Samurai", I imagined a cybered-up version of say, Jin from Samurai Champloo, but slightly more social. Slightly. Just another facet of him that could get him out of trouble, should combat not be viable. So I'm not looking to be competing who focuses on Face duties, just have sort of a secondary of skills that might get me out of a jam. Also, if three is average for an Attribute score, then yeah, I can't let him be a moron.
As for Bad Luck, I kinda got that based on the idea that I wouldn't use Edge much. I've played a lot of World of Darkness, and the Willpower stat works a bit like Edge in that game. I'd maintain a high Willpower score to represent my character's will, but I'd hardly ever burn the points. I get that Bad Luck clearly has the potential to mess my world up in a hurry, but honestly, unless things were going majorly south in the first place, I probably wouldn't use it very often.
The cyberarm/sword combo. The way I read it, the arm itself has the base attributes of BOD 3, AGI 3, and STR 3. The three enhancements boosts each of these to 6. The book says that an attack made with that limb uses its own enhanced stats, rather than averaging with the whole body. So with Ambidextrous, couldn't I in theory, take semi-accurate potshots with the heavy pistol in my left hand as I close ground, and then hack apart what's left with the katana in my cybered right arm? Supposing, of course that I'm against a "reasonable" force for a starting runner. Obviously, I'd have a team to back me up in an optimal situation.
So, even as a non-hacker/rigger, I need to really get detailed in the commlink, eh? That was kind of confusing me. And could I use his SIN for personal, non-law-breaking stuff, and the fake SIN for his Runner stuff?
Thanks again.
-
Thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the input.
Are the mechanics really that unforgiving? The GM was pretty clear that we would start off at the beginning of our career, after reading the corebook, I assumed that meant like... street-gang stuff, low-level courier, etc.. Not exactly making high-level corp raids, yet, right?
I should've been clearer on the concept. When I read "Street-Samurai", I imagined a cybered-up version of say, Jin from Samurai Champloo, but slightly more social. Slightly. Just another facet of him that could get him out of trouble, should combat not be viable. So I'm not looking to be competing who focuses on Face duties, just have sort of a secondary of skills that might get me out of a jam. Also, if three is average for an Attribute score, then yeah, I can't let him be a moron.
As for Bad Luck, I kinda got that based on the idea that I wouldn't use Edge much. I've played a lot of World of Darkness, and the Willpower stat works a bit like Edge in that game. I'd maintain a high Willpower score to represent my character's will, but I'd hardly ever burn the points. I get that Bad Luck clearly has the potential to mess my world up in a hurry, but honestly, unless things were going majorly south in the first place, I probably wouldn't use it very often.
The cyberarm/sword combo. The way I read it, the arm itself has the base attributes of BOD 3, AGI 3, and STR 3. The three enhancements boosts each of these to 6. The book says that an attack made with that limb uses its own enhanced stats, rather than averaging with the whole body. So with Ambidextrous, couldn't I in theory, take semi-accurate potshots with the heavy pistol in my left hand as I close ground, and then hack apart what's left with the katana in my cybered right arm? Supposing, of course that I'm against a "reasonable" force for a starting runner. Obviously, I'd have a team to back me up in an optimal situation.
So, even as a non-hacker/rigger, I need to really get detailed in the commlink, eh? That was kind of confusing me. And could I use his SIN for personal, non-law-breaking stuff, and the fake SIN for his Runner stuff?
Thanks again.
With the Bad Luck, as I said, just drop the Edge to a 1 (your base since you're an elf), and don't ever use it.
As to the cyberarm/katana thing, keep in mind that generally a katana is wielded two-handed (it can be one-handed, but I'm talking 'usually').
You don't need to go too far into detail with your comm, but the suggestions I made would make it harder to hack it, though you could just have that one with wireless turned off on runs and have a little Metalink with Vector Xim (1 Response, 2 Signal, 1 System, 1 Firewall) being the one that's actually broadcasting in those cases. Also, with the setup I gave, just take at least 1 in Electronic Warfare and say you have your comm set up with 'strong encryption' with an interval of 1 day (how long between their rolls to successfully hack it).
-
Interesting. I figured I'm about a strength 2, and sure, I'd need two-hands to swing one of mine, but I would've imagined a strength 6 arm could probably easily swing one. I'll hafta bring that up with my GM.
-
Interesting. I figured I'm about a strength 2, and sure, I'd need two-hands to swing one of mine, but I would've imagined a strength 6 arm could probably easily swing one. I'll hafta bring that up with my GM.
You think you are below average on your strength? Remember that a 3 is average. Now, me I would be strength 2, but I am definitely below average in that as physical activity has never been something I enjoyed much.
-
Hah. Yup. I've done physical activity intermittently in my life, but I'm also 5'5", 130 lbs. It's just not there, lol.
-
[snipped down to "That's GM-screw!"]
If you're getting the BP for your standard SIN, you should probably come up with a reason why it hasn't been erased. (and won't be fully erased til you pay off the karma cost)
If you aren't going to wear the headgear for your fully covering protective armour, get a refund on it - you paid 700 nuyen for something you don't seem to want.
So, even as a non-hacker/rigger, I need to really get detailed in the commlink, eh? That was kind of confusing me. And could I use his SIN for personal, non-law-breaking stuff, and the fake SIN for his Runner stuff?
It's a good idea to have one you can throw, if you aren't really interested in what it does or what it holds. Unwired has disposable (one month burnout) commlinks for 300 nuyen. If you had more than one fake SIN (which can be a good thing), then I'd suggest a more permanent solution with a spoof chip. (Arsenal)
-
If you're getting the BP for your standard SIN, you should probably come up with a reason why it hasn't been erased. (and won't be fully erased til you pay off the karma cost)
If you aren't going to wear the headgear for your fully covering protective armour, get a refund on it - you paid 700 nuyen for something you don't seem to want.
First point, Erased specifically states that anything you wish to remain does so, so no "reason" is required. It's in the quality. Why should someone have to waste their karma when the combination of the two means breaking even or even still paying? Since you're not actually "getting points", it's ridiculous to expect you to "grin and bear it" when it comes to "suffering the consequences" of the SIN.
Second point, when did I say never wear it? I didn't, it's attached, so it can just be hanging like the hood of a "hoodie" when not in use.
-
If the gamemaster feels that a character has made the necessary changes to shrug off a negative quality, he can allow that character to pay twice the quality’s BP cost to remove it.
If you have a SIN, but are actively keeping it from looking like a real SIN / it's a negative quality you can shrug off, buy it off as a negative quality. Here's an official list of what you would expect on fake SINs, though I'd assume rating 6 to be pretty close to real. It *is* an unfortunate amount of information to leave lying about.
Rating 1: Basic physical description of the subject (height, weight, hair/eye color), current history (current address, current employment, vehicle registration), no confirming databases
Rating 2: As included in 1, plus fingerprint records, five years of employment history, one local database (e.g., A or AA corporate branch tied to former employer)
Rating 3: As included in 2, plus employment and criminal background check, two local databases (local city plus a shopping database)
Rating 4-5: As included in 3, plus voiceprint, five or more data trail history searches, three or four general databases containing corroborating data (e.g., issuing government, meFeeds, city and shopping databases)
Rating 6: As included in 4, plus DNA profile, check of most major available databases (e.g., issuing government, AAA corporations, meFeeds, information from social networks and blogs, and several local security and city databases)
when did I say never wear it? I didn't, it's attached, so it can just be hanging like the hood of a "hoodie" when not in use.
Only going from what you're saying in the context of assuming relevance. I wouldn't consider a skintight hood to be anything like a hoodie to put on, either, but there's a limit to the point that people want to deal with minutiae; that's mine.
If I wanted to be less conspicuous, I'd go for a holowear jumpsuit / hood / gloves from Attitude, with Ruthenium Polymer Coating. (assuming the GM allows holowear / RPC)
You can't project the hologram outside your actual location by the description, but the RPC should leave whatever you do project appearing more realistic (Perception threshold 2 test, with -6 to the dice pool) and you can turn it off. It's not something you pick for a fight, though.
-
If the gamemaster feels that a character has made the necessary changes to shrug off a negative quality, he can allow that character to pay twice the quality’s BP cost to remove it.
If you have a SIN, but are actively keeping it from looking like a real SIN / it's a negative quality you can shrug off, buy it off as a negative quality. Here's an official list of what you would expect on fake SINs, though I'd assume rating 6 to be pretty close to real. It *is* an unfortunate amount of information to leave lying about.
The thing is, seeing as you'd be breaking even or paying more, there is not a single problem in the world with enjoying the legal citizenship while Erased destroys any evidence you happen to leave behind.
-
"Breaking even" is a house rule, A4BG.
-
"Breaking even" is a house rule, A4BG.
It's not any kind of rule, house or otherwise. It is simply using common sense that when a combination of positive and negative qualities cancel each other out, and yet can work together in a harmonious fashion, to allow them to do so.
Or are you one of those firmly in the camp of "all negative qualities must constantly every session ream the character with them"?
-
Except it's not common sense. A GM has some clear points to bring up when you perform such a 'cancelling out' - 'shrugging off', as it's put. There's no need for words like 'ream' in this - just that if you want to make SINner more passive than a store of data on your runner, whether it comes through Erased, or a mix of cosmetic surgery, DNA scrambling, print scrubbing, retinal alteration, behavioural modifications, plus a new name and residence ... whatever. It's time to tally the karma.
The harmonious state that exists is addressing the fact that negative qualities don't remain on a sheet as purely non-negative effects and possibilities, or buying it off with karma. This may vary with some groups, but I wouldn't suggest using that as a basis for providing general advice.
-
With the Restricted Gear qualities, as I stated before, Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a phenomenal waste of resources in creation, and having more than 2 passes is pretty pointless.
While I'm not sure I'd go foe Move By Wire the idea that more than 2 initiative passes is a waste is highly campaign dependent and I suspect that in the majority of campaigns 3 would be expected for a main combat character.
Pistols: It is quite all right as a skill, there is no point in taking only Automatics and going full-auto all the time (especially since not even the military trains to use full-auto that much as it's a waste of ammo).
Considering that a very large percentage of weapons in the automatics group are capable of semi auto fire amd sod all of them are limited to only be capable of fully automatic that's not a particularly good argument.
Automatics include machine pistols for concealable weapons and Battle Rifles which are up with all but the best of long-arms for long range combat
If you're only going to pick 1 firearms skill then Automatics is pretty clearly the best option.
-
Form-fitting body armour at 6/2 is as obvious as this (http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/031/189/194/trimmed/31189011_28357194_trimmed.jpg), unless your group specifically ignores the description. It covers your torso, every limb, gloves, booties and skintight hood. You will be conspicuous while wearing the full suit, but more like a ninja or stage hand than geared up for war. That's milspec armour. On that note, if you are using War! (the book), get Softweave armour fabrics.
The actual wording is "comes with gloves, booties and a hood" there's nothing saying that the hood must absolutely be worn for the armour to be effective, the booties will typically be inside shoes or boots and if you're running you're probably wearing gloves of some sort.
It's at least campaign dependent how much you'd stand out with the full body suit.
-
Thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the input.
Are the mechanics really that unforgiving? The GM was pretty clear that we would start off at the beginning of our career, after reading the corebook, I assumed that meant like... street-gang stuff, low-level courier, etc.. Not exactly making high-level corp raids, yet, right?
Really that's all highly dependent upon what the GM is going to be doing.
Even street level games could have hugely different difficulty levels based on how the GM stats out & equips the opposition.
The best thing is to talk to your GM about what sort of game he's wanting to do in the campaign..
The cyberarm/sword combo. The way I read it, the arm itself has the base attributes of BOD 3, AGI 3, and STR 3. The three enhancements boosts each of these to 6. The book says that an attack made with that limb uses its own enhanced stats, rather than averaging with the whole body. So with Ambidextrous, couldn't I in theory, take semi-accurate potshots with the heavy pistol in my left hand as I close ground, and then hack apart what's left with the katana in my cybered right arm? Supposing, of course that I'm against a "reasonable" force for a starting runner. Obviously, I'd have a team to back me up in an optimal situation.
Swinging a sword is not just an arm action so you wouldn't get to just use the cyber arm attributes.
-
quote author=Captain Karzak link=topic=9386.msg165992#msg165992 date=1354685236] Superthyroid Gland: from the core rulebook. This will boost your Agility, Body, and Strength by 1. [/quote]
It's not an unreasonable reading that it stacks with IP Boosters only in the Reaction-boosting capacity since you are not actually stacking Initiative enhancements. Seems like the intended non-stacking rules are to prevent stacking a level of Wired Reflexes with an eventual 1 or 2 Synaptic Booster for cumulative less Essence cost than Wired 2 and less Nuyen than Synaptic Booster 2 or 3. By that reading you also avoid the cost of the Reaction Enhancer. Reasonable question to ask the GM.
The only things I can agree with on the attributes are Willpower 3 and the importance of Agility. Logic 3 is metahuman average, and IMO unless it is key to the concept all characters should at least be of average intellect.
It's a stretch to say if it's not central to the concept it should be average. Let's call a spade a spade: chargen is about creating a whole person with finite resources and making a choice to be average is, after all, a potential waste of points that could be better allocated elsewhere AND a choice, not a thing that requires a good story to "justify" it. A guy who gets by on his charisma and his speed could easily see no reason to develop his intellect that much.
If you're optimizing an Elf for Agility, net hits on the melee attack roll are going to do more for your melee DV than Strength is. If you've got all the AGI you can get then getting more STR can be worth it.
Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a colossal waste.
Why? I assume the cost and need for Restricted Gear?
Also I see 3 passes as ideal for a dedicated samurai. You may not need that many attacking actions, but having one to allocate as a full defense or using a martial arts maneuver or interrupt is a pretty good tactical option.
Re: Edge - its worth as an investment depends on how often your GM refreshes it. Every run is bad especially if a run lasts multiple game sessions. Every game session is good. Every session with a chance to refresh mid-session under certain conditions makes it very valuable. Find out how your GM intends to run it and you'll be able to determine if Edge is something to invest in.
-
Samurai/Face is a fun combo.
-
With the Restricted Gear qualities, as I stated before, Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a phenomenal waste of resources in creation, and having more than 2 passes is pretty pointless.
While I'm not sure I'd go foe Move By Wire the idea that more than 2 initiative passes is a waste is highly campaign dependent and I suspect that in the majority of campaigns 3 would be expected for a main combat character.
Pistols: It is quite all right as a skill, there is no point in taking only Automatics and going full-auto all the time (especially since not even the military trains to use full-auto that much as it's a waste of ammo).
Considering that a very large percentage of weapons in the automatics group are capable of semi auto fire amd sod all of them are limited to only be capable of fully automatic that's not a particularly good argument.
Automatics include machine pistols for concealable weapons and Battle Rifles which are up with all but the best of long-arms for long range combat
If you're only going to pick 1 firearms skill then Automatics is pretty clearly the best option.
Automatics is clearly broadest and for that reason best bang for your buck BUT if Pistols really appeal to you, you can always modify them to fire in bursts or full auto if you think you need that capability.
Superthyroid Gland: from the core rulebook. This will boost your Agility, Body, and Strength by 1.
It's not an unreasonable reading that it stacks with IP Boosters only in the Reaction-boosting capacity since you are not actually stacking Initiative enhancements. Seems like the intended non-stacking rules are to prevent stacking a level of Wired Reflexes with an eventual 1 or 2 Synaptic Booster for cumulative less Essence cost than Wired 2 and less Nuyen than Synaptic Booster 2 or 3. By that reading you also avoid the cost of the Reaction Enhancer. Reasonable question to ask the GM.
The only things I can agree with on the attributes are Willpower 3 and the importance of Agility. Logic 3 is metahuman average, and IMO unless it is key to the concept all characters should at least be of average intellect.
It's a stretch to say if it's not central to the concept it should be average. Let's call a spade a spade: chargen is about creating a whole person with finite resources and making a choice to be average is, after all, both sub-optimal AND a choice, not a thing that requires a good story to "justify" it. A guy who gets by on his charisma and his speed could easily see no reason to develop his intellect much.
If you're optimizing an Elf for Agility, net hits on the melee attack roll are going to do more for your melee DV than Strength is.
Move-by-Wire rating 2 is a colossal waste.
Why? I assume the cost and need for Restricted Gear?
Also I see 3 passes as ideal for a dedicated samurai. You may not need that many attacking actions, but having one to allocate as a full defense or using a martial arts maneuver or interrupt is a pretty good tactical option.
Re: Edge - its worth as an investment depends on how often your GM refreshes it. Every run is bad especially if a run lasts multiple game sessions. Every game session is good. Every session with a chance to refresh mid-session under certain conditions makes it very valuable. Find out how your GM intends to run it and you'll be able to determine if Edge is something to invest in.
-
Here's how I look at it:
2 Passes: Dedicated Street Sam
1 Pass: Most others
3 Passes: "Munchie" Combat Monster
4 Passes: Super "Munchie" Combat Monster
-
Having 2 passes is ultimately very little investment. That's Wired Reflexes 1, which is pretty cheap. Or low-Force Increase Reflexes, or the minimum PP devoted to that (sadly still too much). Or, hell, one dose of a combat drug. I tend towards "at least 2" with most characters excluding Technomancers and even they might carry an inhaler of drugs just in case.
There's not much reason for augmented mundane faces not to have 2 IP whether from drugs or wires, unless your face is only around to negotiate then sits the rest of the run out. Or combat adepts. Even hackers unless they're sitting in the van, and definitely AR hacker adepts, the former for survvability and the latter to do their shtick. Technomancers in the meat would need to get by with drugs of course and mages have to cast an easy spell.
Having 3+ is we're the big permanent investment happens IMO. More Essence for wires, much more money for synaptic boosters, both of which cut into the need for other ware and gear for mundanes. Too much PP as a pure adept, especially a noncombatant one but even a combat adept is looking at picking between no PP, no Magic from wires 3, or no money from booster 3. But of course mages will do just fine as usual. =P
-
Improved Reflexes Adept Power is one of the few that is not over-priced. Each level costs less in Power Points than the equivalent cyberware implant (by .5 for levels 1 and 2 and a full point for level 3)
-
Improved Reflexes Adept Power is one of the few that is not over-priced. Each level costs less in Power Points than the equivalent cyberware implant (by .5 for levels 1 and 2 and a full point for level 3)
The real comparison to the Adept power is Synapic Boosters. Wired Reflexes 1 by itself burns more Essence than an optimized augment-adept would want to, and many of these adepts would want to add at least muscle toner as well.
-
Improved Reflexes Adept Power is one of the few that is not over-priced. Each level costs less in Power Points than the equivalent cyberware implant (by .5 for levels 1 and 2 and a full point for level 3)
The real comparison to the Adept power is Synapic Boosters. Wired Reflexes 1 by itself burns more Essence than an optimized augment-adept would want to, and many of these adepts would want to add at least muscle toner as well.
That isn't "optimized". That is "munchie".
-
Thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the input.
Are the mechanics really that unforgiving? The GM was pretty clear that we would start off at the beginning of our career, after reading the corebook, I assumed that meant like... street-gang stuff, low-level courier, etc.. Not exactly making high-level corp raids, yet, right?
Yes. It is very easy to get geeked in Shadowrun. And the rules are extremely complicated by the standards of the rather extensive number of other RGP's I've played and GM'ed. It is very easy to make a character that cannot really contribute. It is also very hard to tell if you are competent at something because some dicepools are very easy to inflate (past 30 dice) and some are very hard to develop (you'll never get past the teens).
Also, take a look at the argument in this thread over Sinner + Erased. Some GM's will choose to aggravate the Shadowrun game system's problems by inflicting infinite revenge upon you for having negative qualities. Some of the stupidest conversations I've ever witnessed on this message board are about GM's screwing their players over negative qualities. It's very hard to recommend negative qualities, because we don't know your GM. He may be a sane and reasonable fellow. Or he may be an asshat that only GM's to powertrip over his players, and will screw you super hard no matter what you choose.
For what it's worth I think that not being able to safely tap your character's edge pool is ass and there is almost no circumstance under which Bad Luck isn't a horrible choice. Edge is often employed in 2 ways: (1) to save your life in a dire situation. (2) To occasional achieve good results in areas outside your character's main area of focus. Edge exists to make you more versatile, more reliable and to surmount overwhelming odds. It exists to make you have heroic moments. Does this sound like a resource you'd really want to abstain from?
Anyway I want to clarify a few things for you, OP.
(1) If you are a street sam, Initiative is your most important stat. It is very, very hard for competent shooters to miss their target in ranged combat, so Initiative determines whether you go before the bad guys riddle you and your pals with bullets. Surprise is also devastatingly effective, and gaining surprise or avoiding it both require you succeed on opposed initiative rolls. Initiative is derived from your intuition and reaction scores, therefore you want these as high as possible.
(2) Agility is the key stat for many of your most useful abilities. It is hugely efficient for you to have a very high agility. It is still less important than initiative so long as you are still competent at combat. Obviously if you suck at fighting, it hardly matters if you go first or last.
(3) I recommended Move-by-wire 2 under the assumption that you wanted to be a Street Sam & Face. We are using the ginormous reaction bonus that MBW 2 + Reaction Enhancers + (arguably) Superthyroid gland to max out your reaction stat, while requiring the minimum investment of BP for your unaugmented reaction. This frees up points that can then be shifted to get your charisma to Elf levels of awesomeness. If you decide Charisma isn't all that important to you then maybe you can just replace MBW 2 with Wired reflexes.
(4) Automatic weapons are awesome. I don't give a damn how real-life militaries train their troops to shoot. That has nothing to do with Shadowrun. Being able to fire Long narrow bursts+ Short narrow bursts (with appropriate recoil compensation) in the same initiative pass is devastating. Automatic weapons can inflict huge amounts of damage and have great accuracy at range. If you want a small gun, automatics also governs Machine pistols - which are basically like regular pistols, only with better ammo capacity and superior capacity for recoil compensation because they can accept gas vent accessories. But if all you want is a good one-handed range weapon, SMG's are excellent.
(5) Pistols suck. If your only ranged weapon skill is pistols, then what is your plan when people with real weapons are shooting at you from a distance (like from the higher floors of a building)? Or an aerial drone, or a spirit with Line-of-sight powers? Pistol ranges are absolute garbage. They are a bit more concealable than say a machine pistol, but a cyberware/weapons scanners are cheap, common, and they doen't care how well concealed your pistol is. Low-tech, low resource organizations can still go with a physical pat-down search - which dramatically reduces the effectiveness of an item's concealability rating.
(6) There is no "intelligence" stat. Your character's mental acuity is best described by the average your your four mental attributes. I have recommended a VERY high charisma, a high intuition (the highest value that is practical), a very low logic and probably an average willpower. This means you have a mind that is well above average. Of course if you have an Asshat GM, all that will matter is whatever ability is lowest. I can't help you if your GM is like that. Condolences?
(7) Sinner + Erased is great if ever want to be respectable. You have all the benefits of real citizenship with the back up an AI keeping the bad stuff off your record. If your character ever aspires to leave the shadows after striking it rich, this is a very sensible combo of qualities. If you have people to impress who live outside the shadows this is a very sensible combo.
(Eight) Nearly everyone considers stuff like Form Fitting Body Armor and PPP to be discrete forms of protection, because that is the entire F-ing point of their existence.
Edit: grammer, accidental smiley face (wtf).
-
Makes sense. For the record, my GM is pretty awesome. We've been playing WoD games for years, just now both trying Shadowrun for the first time, with our regular group.
-
It's very hard to recommend negative qualities, because we don't know your GM. He may be a sane and reasonable fellow. Or he may be an asshat that only GM's to powertrip over his players, and will screw you super hard no matter what you choose.
One can point out to your player(s) that they've invalidated the negative part of a negative quality, and still be the former GM type. It's like getting surgery for any of the multiple medical disabilities that can be taken as negative qualities, replacing / fixing buggy 'ware, or installing nanites when your system is nanite intolerant - the difference being that you have something left afterwards. A (somewhat empty) SIN. From the way you & A4BG responded, you'd think I suggested explicit hardline asshattery, when it was simply that it shouldn't be logged under 'negative qualities'.
Nearly everyone considers stuff like Form Fitting Body Armor ... to be discrete forms of protection, because that is the entire F-ing point of their existence.
Now you're just being a dick. PPP is explicitly available as discreet protection. FFBA is only discreet by virtue of being thin, custom-tailored and not extending beyond your other armour / clothing. And then some people just want the 6/2 armour.
If you're getting angry enough to start mock-swearing on forums over it, think about why. Come back with that, rather than this inane, "If you aren't doing X, you are a horrible, power-tripping, player-screwing GM". It's uncalled for.
-
Also, Mad Hamish:
The book states: "When a particular limb is used for a test (such as leading an attack with a cyberarm), use the attribute for that limb (natural or cyber)."
So even if I used a katana in two hands, the right arm is still leading the attack.
-
Pistols skill has one of the most awesome weapons in the game (though it requires Restricted Gear in character generation). The HK Urban Fighter, a heavy pistol that is at a base completely silenced and totally immune to both MAD scanners and chemical sniffing devices.
-
Re: Negative Qualities - if you get points for them, expect them to come up. I'm not talking things like Scorched where if you get hit in cybercombat things could be worse for you. I'm talking things like Ork/Elf Poser, Dependent, In Debt, Records on File, etc. Things which could reasonably be used as plot hooks or exploited by enemies or corporate employers for their own gain. Obviously some Qualities are better suited for story fodder than others but I think you should assume that if you take one that does have story fodder, it can and will be used as such.
This is part of why I like systems like L5R and Burning Wheel: when your negative stuff comes up in game, you get rewards (usually bonus XP) for it. It creates some incentive to be smart about flaws that could affect the character and rewards you for bringing up or dealing with the bad stuff you chose.
Pistols skill has one of the most awesome weapons in the game (though it requires Restricted Gear in character generation). The HK Urban Fighter, a heavy pistol that is at a base completely silenced and totally immune to both MAD scanners and chemical sniffing devices.
I am tempted to say you could modify a machine pistol to do the same but I'm away from books right now.
-
To my knowledge there's not a weapon mod to account for the special "chemical block" of the Urban Fighter. There's ceramic components for the other, but I don't think even Restricted Gear could get you the level of the mod to make another gun equal to the Urban Fighter in that regard.
-
Now you're just being a dick. PPP is explicitly available as discreet protection. FFBA is only discreet by virtue of being thin, custom-tailored and not extending beyond your other armour / clothing. And then some people just want the 6/2 armour.
That sounds pretty damn discrete to me.
Look, in older editions there used to be concealability ratings for things that weren't weapons. Form Fitting Body armor, like most equipment in SR4A, is recycled from previous editions. From the (revised) Street Samuri Catalogue, Level 1 FFBA is a vest that is impossible to detect as armor (no roll allowed). Level 2 (covers 60% of the body) has a rating of 15, which is hugely good, and on par with the most discrete piece of securetech clothing (which is armor disguised as regular clothing). Level 3 (covers 90% of the body) has a concealability of 12, which is still really, really, good, and more discrete that some of the securetech clothing options - like the jacket (12) or longcoat (10).
So FFBA is NOT that strange body condom that you linked to.
Makes sense. For the record, my GM is pretty awesome. We've been playing WoD games for years, just now both trying Shadowrun for the first time, with our regular group.
That's good to hear.
Did you guys play nWoD or oWoD?
-
oWoD: Vampire, Werewolf, and Hunter. Had a Brujah for the modern VtM games, Ravnos for Dark Ages, A Get of Fenris Ahroun for WtA, and a Martyr for the brief time we played Hunter.
-
oWoD: Vampire, Werewolf, and Hunter. Had a Brujah for the modern VtM games, Ravnos for Dark Ages, A Get of Fenris Ahroun for WtA, and a Martyr for the brief time we played Hunter.
I got someone to let me play a Fianna who by blood was actually White Howler with the goal of trying to refound the tribe. Had maxed Pure Breed and Immune to Wyrm Emanations.
-
Now THAT'S ridiculous, lol. I thought my Fenrir was a little munchkinny. Yeesh.
-
Now THAT'S ridiculous, lol. I thought my Fenrir was a little munchkinny. Yeesh.
The Pure Breed, I thought was appropriate so she could have a good spirit contact that somehow evaded the corruption of the tribe, and the Immune to Wyrm Emanations was a ST requirement to be "pure" rather than a Spiral.
-
Hey, if you got your ST to let ya, more power to ya, man. I've always been more of the mind that the Howlers are dead, and if one were to pop up somewhere, the Spirals'd stamp 'em out pretty quick.
-
Hey, if you got your ST to let ya, more power to ya, man. I've always been more of the mind that the Howlers are dead, and if one were to pop up somewhere, the Spirals'd stamp 'em out pretty quick.
Oh, I took Hunted too for a similar reason as the Immune to Wyrm Emanations, as well as a little zero point flaw that must've been in an old edition or something because I couldn't actually find it in any Third Ed. books. You ever hear of "Lost Pup"?
-
No, actually. Must be pre-3rd ed.
-
And as to wanting to play one, I'd been wanting to ever since I'd heard about 'em because I thought they were cool. Did kinda annoy the ST though a little, I did quite a bit of Umbral exploration because he isn't all that comfortable with the stuff for being in the Umbra. Got a really lucky pair of rolls with her though. Two-shotted (in one round) a Nexus Crawler.
-
Look, in older editions there used to be concealability ratings for things that weren't weapons. Form Fitting Body armor, like most equipment in SR4A, is recycled from previous editions. From the (revised) Street Samurai Catalogue, [...] Level 3 (covers 90% of the body) has a concealability of 12, which is still really, really, good, and more discrete that some of the securetech clothing options - like the jacket (12) or longcoat (10).
This is SR4, though. We aren't given a body coverage percentage, but coverage by item, (full suit) or body part (half / shirt) On a related note, the armour value has increased threefold from 2050, and between Arsenal / 2050, only the former says the following verbatim.
The full-body suit covers the entire body, including the extremities, and comes with gloves, booties, and a hood.
No point hammering in how it completely covers you, if you then go into detail on what a full suit includes and it doesn't do just that.
-
Look, in older editions there used to be concealability ratings for things that weren't weapons. Form Fitting Body armor, like most equipment in SR4A, is recycled from previous editions. From the (revised) Street Samurai Catalogue, [...] Level 3 (covers 90% of the body) has a concealability of 12, which is still really, really, good, and more discrete that some of the securetech clothing options - like the jacket (12) or longcoat (10).
This isn't older editions, what was the case then is not necessarily the case now. When an edition changes, disregard everything mechanical from a previous one.
-
Now THAT'S ridiculous, lol. I thought my Fenrir was a little munchkinny. Yeesh.
The Pure Breed, I thought was appropriate so she could have a good spirit contact that somehow evaded the corruption of the tribe, and the Immune to Wyrm Emanations was a ST requirement to be "pure" rather than a Spiral.
I think the most fun I ever had with Pure Breed was the Silver Fang Metis Theurge who had pure breed 5 from both parents. His metadeformity was dementia. Socially awkward didn't begin to cover it.
-
Now THAT'S ridiculous, lol. I thought my Fenrir was a little munchkinny. Yeesh.
The Pure Breed, I thought was appropriate so she could have a good spirit contact that somehow evaded the corruption of the tribe, and the Immune to Wyrm Emanations was a ST requirement to be "pure" rather than a Spiral.
I think the most fun I ever had with Pure Breed was the Silver Fang Metis Theurge who had pure breed 5 from both parents. His metadeformity was dementia. Socially awkward didn't begin to cover it.
Sounds interesting, not my cup of tea, but I never played anything but Homid. What do YOU think of the character and idea behind it?
-
That's pretty impressive. What Auspice?
I remember my ST had this big fancy storyline drawn up that led to the big battle with what was admittedly a particularly old and dangerous Tzimice, in Horrid Form. And then my Fenrir one-shotted him down the center with his BFS Grand Klaive.
-
That's pretty impressive. What Auspice?
I remember my ST had this big fancy storyline drawn up that led to the big battle with what was admittedly a particularly old and dangerous Tzimice, in Horrid Form. And then my Fenrir one-shotted him down the center with his BFS Grand Klaive.
Ahroun, but she just had the guts to try Umbral exploration anyway (anything to try and find something to try and gain an edge in her quest). Even managed to find a place that--while I'm unsure if it existed in canon, the GM used it--was called the Silver Forge. He claimed it could purify Wyrm Taint. Even got the spirits there to agree to help me out with something (making the first Rank 5 Gift of the new tribe). Couldn't learn it yet, though by the time I was done going through a module he ran me through, I had enough Renown to be two temporary Glory shy of enough for that--just nowhere near the xp to be able to have the skills necessary to survive a Rank 4 or Rank 5 advancement trial. Heck, I was even about that close to being able to get that rank in practically any Auspice.
-
Erebus! The lake of molten silver.
-
Erebus! The lake of molten silver.
That the actual name? Cool, I'd only ever heard the one I mentioned, and well it does kinda sound cool.
If I'd ever made it to Rank 5, the Gift I got the spirits there to work on was basically a version of the Balefire that the Spirals use that channeled the power of that location to use against Tainted targets that could purify them (if they survived it).
Edit: Sorry for the derail, but I just get giddy when I get a chance to talk about that character. She was one of my favorite characters...ever.
-
You want "interesting," you should try playing a Ferectoi (type of Fomori that's born a Fomori, not possessed, and can look totally normal at will) that's ended up siding with the PCs because of the massive, mutual a hate-on between him and the BSD.
Would have been the shortest character ever... I'm sure the GM intended to "teach me a lesson" (as opposed to just saying "No! Go make a regular character!") by having an Ahroun GM-PC maul me to death in the first scene, then telling me to make a "normal" character... except he made the mistake of letting me point-buy my powers from Freak Legion and not checking anything except the point-totals came out right.
The resulting brawl ended with me beating the Ahroun into the ground so badly was still at Incapacitated after Rage Healing then, immediately after, one-shotting a pair of BSD that had been "watching from the shadows" which tried to jump me immediately afterwards.
The group ended up settling our differences after that, at least enough to work together, and I stuck around as the main offense guy until the game died out due to Real Life pushing us apart.
--- --- ---
Moral Of The Story: Never pick a fight with someone who has a Breath Weapon. ;D
-
The Street Samurai/Face? It's a natural combination and one I'm quite fond of. I've always preferred flexible character concepts.
As far as specific recommendations? This seems like a very "soft" style character that's good at what he does. I'm not going to claim to have a lot of optimal recommendations.
1) I'd go ahead and get the Influence Skill group at 4. Con, Negotiation and Etiquette are all skills that will help the role the player wants to fill in addition to leadership. Get the rebate and be a little more flexible for a relatively minimal investment. If you had to drop Athletics Group to 2 to do so I feel that it would be worth it.
2) I'd look at dropping unarmed to 1 (maybe with a martial art specialization). It fits the concept but a blades specialist should have relatively limited concerns as far as being completely disarmed.
3) I like pistols for the character. This character strikes me as the master of the compromised meet. The guy you hire when you want a face for the meeting that's a 50/50 chance of turning into a gunfight. The concealibility of hold outs have a utility for this type of character.
4) If you can free up points for more perception do it. If you're life is depending on spotting the meet going bad before the other guy its a must.
5) I'd be seriously tempted to move a point of Reaction to Charisma.
6) I honestly find Dodge to be of pretty limited use to take that high at chargen. If you plan on going full defense a lot it may serve better but I'd consider dropping it completely and picking it up in character development.
7) My faces tend to have more contacts than this. I understand that's an expensive choice, but I figure that a face should know people to use those social skills on.
8) If you're going to go pistols, and have a cyberarm, get yourself a cyber holster. Concealability doesn't get any better.
9) I'd rule that a Katanna was a two handed weapon that required close coordination to use. For one handed use with the cyberlimb I'd go with a sword. I'd rule that with the Katana specifically the strength of the limbs wouldn't matter since the techniques are so specific. Check with your GM to see what his ruling is on what constitutes "close coordination" vis a vis cyberlimbs and attributes. There's a fair amount of ambiguity and his is the decision that will end up mattering to your character.
10) Invest in at least some basic Matrix programs for the comlink. Dump the Car if you have to to pay for it. Take mass transit or a cab until you have the money to pick up a car. You might even look at something like the Pocket Hacker (an agent from wired that can perform some simple matrix actions for you) or some ICE from unwired.
11) I'd invest in at the least a couple of knives (the ceramic ones from Arsenal if you're using that book), a hold out pistol and at least one concealable holster.
12) I'd invest less in ammo as a starting character. Hopefully you should bet paid before you blow through 20 clips of ammo.
13) With your background write up you might want to look at the Records on File negative quality from Runner's Companion if it's in use.
14) I like the Oh crap aspect of Edge and feel naked with out a point or two beyond my "burn to prevent char death" point. YMMV however.
I think he's playable as written depending on your GM and party power levels. You've got reasonable, but not hugely munchy dice pools. in your primary skill sets. If the rest of your party is going into play with between 13 and 15 dice in their primary pools then you're absolutely fine. Check with your GM and see what he's looking for. I tend to favor the Base book definitions. (4 is an above average stat, 5 is good 6 is exceptional, 4 is a combat veteran skill level, 5 is elite and 6 is a standout among elites), and my basic impression is that cyberwear is fairly limited (with something like the LONESTAT SWAT package from augmentation being pretty typical for top end cop/front line soldier types with a little better for Elite soldiers and top end corp styles) in my games that means that most baddies will be at 1 or 2 IP and 10-12 (mostly less) dice including augmentation. That doesn't mean there aren't vat grown cyber ninjas, just that they're not guarding the C list POPco facility in Redmond. If his expectations are different you might need some trimming.
-
You want "interesting," you should try playing a Ferectoi (type of Fomori that's born a Fomori, not possessed, and can look totally normal at will) that's ended up siding with the PCs because of the massive, mutual a hate-on between him and the BSD.
Would have been the shortest character ever... I'm sure the GM intended to "teach me a lesson" (as opposed to just saying "No! Go make a regular character!") by having an Ahroun GM-PC maul me to death in the first scene, then telling me to make a "normal" character... except he made the mistake of letting me point-buy my powers from Freak Legion and not checking anything except the point-totals came out right.
The resulting brawl ended with me beating the Ahroun into the ground so badly was still at Incapacitated after Rage Healing then, immediately after, one-shotting a pair of BSD that had been "watching from the shadows" which tried to jump me immediately afterwards.
The group ended up settling our differences after that, at least enough to work together, and I stuck around as the main offense guy until the game died out due to Real Life pushing us apart.
--- --- ---
Moral Of The Story: Never pick a fight with someone who has a Breath Weapon. ;D
Does sound interesting. The character I was talking about might have attacked you (if she realized what you were), but after losing she had the honor to be quite all right with you being part of the team figuring that you'd earned your place.
-
All good, man. Yeah, Erebus is the plane in the Umbra that kinda works like... Purgatory for Garou. Burn in the lake until you're pure. Harsh.
And yes. I'd wager that was your punishment for not making a regular character, JustADude, heheh.
-
All good, man. Yeah, Erebus is the plane in the Umbra that kinda works like... Purgatory for Garou. Burn in the lake until you're pure. Harsh.
If I remember right, I think I dumped either two or three Spirals (at different times) into it. One of 'em the GM had be almost as pure Howler as I was.
-
Dodge is not as a melee ability (Blades in your case) to parry plus Gymnastics ranged dodging, since Gymnastics is useful for things other than dodging and can be pumped to crazy levels for an Elf since it's tied to Agility and not Reaction. Also an R3 Synthcardium directly adds to that, while it's fairly easy to default on other Athletics group skills.
Also with high Agi and Palming, if you want to go Automatics, concealing tht machine pistol isn't a big deal. If you stick with Pistols never only carry a hold-out and nothing else. They're pretty bad. At least try to slip your heavy through security.
-
So, our group had our first SR session the other day, and I decided to do a little update. My GM was way on board with the character concept, and I managed to convince him that with that strong of a cyberarm, and the fact that it does the same damage and has the same reach as a one-handed sword, the character should be able to wield a katana one-handed, so yay for me. Added a couple of knives, a hold-out w/ concealable holster, and reined it in on the ammo-spending. Got a decent agent with some common-use programs for my better commlink. Added a pair of glasses to the contacts, and vision enhancement / magnification, flare compensation, and thermographic in addition to the imagelink and smartlink. Dropped the car, since it's a pretty urban setting, public transportation shouldn't be a problem, and a couple other team-members have vehicles. Also, I upgraded to Wired Reflexes 2, for 3 IPs. Raised my influence group to 4. Dropped the enemy, and bad luck, and got In Debt, and Records on file. Finally, I added another contact. There was also some minimal attribute and skill shifting.
The rest of the team also tends toward sort of more realistic, multifaceted characters:
Human Adept; our main gunner, also good at Biotech.
Human Rigger; has lots of crazy drones and a van, and can fix / improve non-biological things.
Dwarf Hacker; pretty dedicated to that, seems like, but I don't know everything about him, yet.
Ork Shaman; dedicated mage, but easily the most knowledgable character.
Troll Enforcer; Big guns, big blades, big muscles, and lots of intimidation factor. Also pretty connected with contacts.