Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: KoD on <12-21-12/0200:51>
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I was kicking around a design for a demo expert, so I decided to refresh my memory on the advanced explosives rules from arsenal. During this time it occured to me that barrier foam would be great for tamping shaped charges.
What I dont know however, is the size of one canister of barrier foam, is it like a can of hairspray, or a BBQ gas bottle? I do remember reading that one 'canister' contained a massive amount of the stuff, so a big ass gas bottle sounds plauseable, but its also only 30 nuyen, an empty gas bottle isnt exactly cheep, so 30 for it and the barrier foam sounds like a less than profitable product. Less than profitable products dont survive in a setting run by megacorps.
Aside from that one question, what other innovative ideas do you all have for barrier foam useage?
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you mean except making a boat
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Trap for when you don't want to be followed, or need to boobytrap a vehicle you're leaving behind, and collateral damage is a bad idea. Proceed as follows:
1) Place canister of barrier foam inside cab of vehicle.
2) Set it so that it goes off either on a wireless signal or a tripwire. If you're feeling nasty, give it a few seconds delay so people can get in the vehicle before it goes off.
3) Watch as barrier foam fills cab of vehicle, effectively making it unusable, and potentially trapping people inside.
Also works well as a prank.
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And then there's always use as crash protection... 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnyhkBU1yaw
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You could spray it on the floor/ground where you know there are pressure sensors or anti-personnel mines. If you can reduce the mass detected by the sensor to below the arming level by distributing your weight over a larger area, you could walk across a zone without triggering the devices. I imagine a 1 meter wide strip using a thin layer of barrier foam would be fine and hey, if you did trigger a mine, the foam would give you some protection! j/k
You could spray a series of thin lines of foam on a sheer wall/structure to use as foot and hand holds/supports to climb. The foam dries pretty damn fast and if it can be used to restrain people, I'm sure it can hold their weight as well. I guess its just a question of how well it bonds to the wall when you put your weight on it.
EDIT: Corrected spelling in bold.
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You could spray it on the floor/ground where you know there are pressure sensors or anti-personnel mines. If you can reduce the mass detected by the sensor to below the arming level by distibuting your weight over a larger area, you could walk across a zone without triggering the devices. I imagine a 1 meter wide strip using a thin layer of barrier foam would be fine and hey, if you did trigger a mine, the foam would give you some protection! j/k
You could spray a series of thin lines of foam on a sheer wall/structure to use as foot and hand holds/supports to climb. The foam dries pretty damn fast and if it can be used to restrain people, I'm sure it can hold their weight as well. I guess its just a question of how well it bonds to the wall when you put your weight on it.
When in doubt, mix 1:1 with a Rating 6 Adhesive. ;)
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It came up in another thread to use it as a quick and dirty first aid solution, creating instant casts and neck braces for example
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It is excellent as a suppository.
-k
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I kinda prefer freezefoam for some of these. ::)
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I like throwing down a slick grenade, or a microwire snare grenade, and then trying to get the barrier foam going off on a wall just above that slick spot. You effectively have zero chance to get out from under the foam, as you're slipping around on the slimy floor, covering yourself in more drying barrier foam in the process. Load a grenade launcher with alternating grenades, and you have a great non-lethal crowd control solution.
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Flash grenades and barrier foam.
Here's that thread White Knight http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=8953.msg158594#msg158594 (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=8953.msg158594#msg158594)
And then there's always use as crash protection... 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnyhkBU1yaw
Aaand now I have to watch the whole thing.
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Yeah... as soon as I made that post, I had to put it in the player myself.
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Fill someone's orfices with it during combat. Quick and dirty.
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Huh, never considered the splint trick, works brilliantly as a cover story for having the stuff as well if you tuck the applicator in a medkit.
Of course, the weight issue is still a thing, after rechecking War!, barrier foam canisters are indeed handheld, and can create 10000000 cubic centimeters of barrier foam. to put that in perspective, a cubic centimeter of air weighs about 1.2 grams, 10 million times that is 12000 kilograms, so unless barrier foam weighs less than air, that handheld canister is impossible to lift.
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Huh, never considered the splint trick, works brilliantly as a cover story for having the stuff as well if you tuck the applicator in a medkit.
Of course, the weight issue is still a thing, after rechecking War!, barrier foam canisters are indeed handheld, and can create 10000000 cubic centimeters of barrier foam. to put that in perspective, a cubic centimeter of air weighs about 1.2 grams, 10 million times that is 12000 kilograms, so unless barrier foam weighs less than air, that handheld canister is impossible to lift.
Think of a canister being like a can of shaving cream. It weighs less than 1 kg and the resulting foam fills a reasonably large size and is mostly air that shouldn't be part of your calculation of total mass. Think of barrier foam as being similar to polystyrene.
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Huh, never considered the splint trick, works brilliantly as a cover story for having the stuff as well if you tuck the applicator in a medkit.
Of course, the weight issue is still a thing, after rechecking War!, barrier foam canisters are indeed handheld, and can create 10000000 cubic centimeters of barrier foam. to put that in perspective, a cubic centimeter of air weighs about 1.2 grams, 10 million times that is 12000 kilograms, so unless barrier foam weighs less than air, that handheld canister is impossible to lift.
Think of a canister being like a can of shaving cream. It weighs less than 1 kg and the resulting foam fills a reasonably large size and is mostly air that shouldn't be part of your calculation of total mass. Think of barrier foam as being similar to polystyrene.
I understand the concept, but the scale make it unlikely. If we assume the canister somehow weighs 1kg, then when divided by the area it will cover, each cubic centimeter with get 0.001 gram of the substance, even if it is massively mixed with air, that's still only 0.001 gram of compound per centimeter cubed, which somehow manages to act as a solid structure (AV14, S8, if I recall correctly) If this was the case then it would revolutionize every aspect of science that can benefit from lightweight materials, which is almost all of them, and while advanced, the technology displayed in shadowrun does not display that level of advancement.
So I am forced to conclude, that it is silly, and that I should stop looking in to game mechanics to this degree, it only ever ends in silly buisness.
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someone just got enthusiastic with their '0' button when writing that part of war! :P
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Replace air bag in an automobile. ;D
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Replace air bag in an automobile. ;D
Also doubles as an enhanced termination system!
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Replace air bag in an automobile. ;D
Also doubles as an enhanced termination system!
Well, I was thinking of it as an Anti-Theft Device... ;D
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I kinda prefer freezefoam for some of these. ::)
I have R6 freeze foam in a splash grenade - works wonders and only costs like 44 nuyen. For another 50 you can make it gecko grip.
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I kinda prefer freezefoam for some of these. ::)
I have R6 freeze foam in a splash grenade - works wonders and only costs like 44 nuyen. For another 50 you can make it gecko grip.
The possibilities are endless.
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...If this was the case then it would revolutionize every aspect of science that can benefit from lightweight materials, which is almost all of them, and while advanced, the technology displayed in shadowrun does not display that level of advancement.
Well, yes. I suppose the world would be revolutionized by such a compound; at least for a couple of hours until the foam degraded into a puddle of useless mush.
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I kinda prefer freezefoam for some of these. ::)
I have R6 freeze foam in a splash grenade - works wonders and only costs like 44 nuyen. For another 50 you can make it gecko grip.
The possibilities are endless.
"Good news! It's a suppository."
-k
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I kinda prefer freezefoam for some of these. ::)
I have R6 freeze foam in a splash grenade - works wonders and only costs like 44 nuyen. For another 50 you can make it gecko grip.
Only if you badly undercost the grenades... SR3 used 10x dosage costs for chem grenades someone else related after I suggested 20x was probably a good baseline. SR4 only says chemical.. it does not say only a single dose of the chemical and given the huge area of effect even 10x is lowballing.
At 10x that you end up with a far more reasonable 260 per grenade. 20x... 500 per.
It seems rather silly that you end up with something better than a vehicular ares glop cannon just by packing an underbarrel GL.
Chemtech in War adds Barrier foam cannisters...
One cannister is enough to produce 10 m3 (cubic meters). a 5m radius hemispherical splash... is more like 125 m3... and one cannister is far larger than a mini-grenade.
If used in a chemical grenade one application is enough to create a sphere just over 2.5m in diameter. If triggered on the ground... 5m diameter and 1m high dome of freeze foam...
btw: love the good news suppository joke on that one...
But my other idea was the freeze foam ball... use the 2.5m sphere... drop it from high altitude set it off... for the old looney toons dropping anvils effects.
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have it programmed similar to nanosmokes to get anvils that form in mid air.
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Sorry to kind of necro this, but I had a thought about barrier foam as an AA weapon or really, an anti-vehicle weapon.
Airburst a grenade in the intake of a helo or other aircraft. Pretty sure most engines aren't built to handle concrete forming in them, at the very least, it should freeze up any moving parts. Do the same to the intakes/exhausts of an armored vehicle.
Seems like it should be a pretty cheap, effective way to bring almost anything down, with a lot less risk of killing the people inside.
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I like it. Wonder what it would do to a dragon.
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You think people wouldn't die in a aircraft crash?
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He did say less risk of killing the occupants, not no risk. If the engine stalls (which is what would happen if the air intake was clogged), you can generally attempt to make an emergency landing of some sort. Engine blows up (as with a grenade) you're pretty well fragged.
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well, the engines or planes usually don't explode, they catch fire and critically fail. But in the time it takes for the foam to congeal or harden most of it would already be whicked away by fast moving parts before hand, that's not to say all those millions of particles wouldn't be bad for any intake system though.
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What if it was cut with a strong adhesive?
Also, I was figuring on this mostly being used on military or hard security targets, people who would/should be in harnesses or strapped in. An airplane should be able to make a glide, and a rotorcraft should be able to autorotate to safely-ish land. It's not no risk, but much less than if you opened it like a tin can using an autocannon.
Also, figure points for style. Taking down a million plus nuyen aircraft using 50 nuyen plus launcher, and since the 2.5m ball was per dosage... Couldn't one up the dosage quite a bit and create even larger balls of lovely foam?
Hell, you could use it to knock out their eyes and ears. Target sensors and antenna. Target their guns.
As for a dragon... Huh. Use a massive enough dose, and launch it down their gullet?
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New spell idea :choke dragon.
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Something tells me, it's threads like these that keep the alien invaders away.
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Oh, remembered this one from when I was first looking at the foam.
What if you use it as a cheap armor filling? If it doesn't increase weight or expand as it sets, couldn't you spray it between body panels or in open spaces (like within a wing structure) of a vehicle/drone to give it some (extra) form of armoring?
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This stuff is basically a Military Grade A/B foam or the can of spray in insulation foam you can by at the hardware store IRL today.
It expands like mad to fill all of the cracks and crevices. I had a bit under a finger nail until I washed real good with a mild acid, and boy was it painful.
New use: torture device. Spray under finger nails, then apply hefty amounts of tape to concentrate it's expansion under the nail.
Something tells me, it's threads like these that keep the alien invaders away.
Personally, I think Terra is under a galactic quarantine because we are so violent and are too dangerous to be allowed to spread beyond our own system. ;D
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New jackpoint/geneva convention, don't ever mention fingernails again.
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New jackpoint/geneva convention, don't ever mention fingernails again.
But sometimes I need questions answered.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Barrier Foam: This hand-held canister comes with a built-in spray applicator. The chemical inside it is a foam that expands on contact with air, then dries and hardens in seconds, creating a protective cover that can support heavy weapon mounts. One can contains enough foam to create a flat grey barrier one meter tall, one meter thick, and ten meters long; it does not build up well, but careful application of a new layer on top of a hardened layer will create a taller, if not structurally sound, wall. Barriers can be shaped, to a degree with the careful use of entrenching tools. Soldiers will often use tubes or boxes to create gun ports in the foam while it is being applied.
When applied, barrier foam is soft until the end of the Combat Turn in which it was deployed, at which point it hardens into a rigid form with Armor Rating 14 and Structure Rating 8. If used in a chemical grenade, one application of barrier foam is enough to create a sphere just over 2.5 meters in diameter, or if triggered on the ground, a flat dome one meter tall and five meters across. Targets caught in liquid barrier foam have until it hardens to escape or risk ensnarement and/or suffocation.
This sounds like what is being described.
(http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/19217792/2/stock-photo-19217792-man-with-a-chemical-sprayer.jpg)
Which is is roughly 2 Gallons in volume, or 7.57082356 Liters, or 0.007570824 Cubic Meters. Which expands to 10 Cubic Meters, or 1320 times it's original volume, in 3 seconds time. Which is nowhere near fast enough to replace an automobile's airbag, which expands in 1/30th of a second and the deflates.
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Yes, but an airbag (probably) won't kill you and has no-where near the same hardness as concrete. I still think it's ridiculous to think that we're ever going to get to a material that can, with only 3-5 seconds of curing, equal concrete.
Sorry to kind of necro this, but I had a thought about barrier foam as an AA weapon or really, an anti-vehicle weapon.
...most engines aren't built to handle concrete forming in them, at the very least, it should freeze up any moving parts.
I seem to remember this exact use in several series, my favourite being Ghost in the Shell. I'm actually surprised that it wasn't mentioned as a possible use with the Freeze Foam in Arsenal. The concept is older than 3E.
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Barrier Foam: This hand-held canister comes with a built-in spray applicator. The chemical inside it is a foam that expands on contact with air, then dries and hardens in seconds, creating a protective cover that can support heavy weapon mounts. One can contains enough foam to create a flat grey barrier one meter tall, one meter thick, and ten meters long; it does not build up well, but careful application of a new layer on top of a hardened layer will create a taller, if not structurally sound, wall. Barriers can be shaped, to a degree with the careful use of entrenching tools. Soldiers will often use tubes or boxes to create gun ports in the foam while it is being applied.
When applied, barrier foam is soft until the end of the Combat Turn in which it was deployed, at which point it hardens into a rigid form with Armor Rating 14 and Structure Rating 8. If used in a chemical grenade, one application of barrier foam is enough to create a sphere just over 2.5 meters in diameter, or if triggered on the ground, a flat dome one meter tall and five meters across. Targets caught in liquid barrier foam have until it hardens to escape or risk ensnarement and/or suffocation.
This sounds like what is being described.
(http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/19217792/2/stock-photo-19217792-man-with-a-chemical-sprayer.jpg)
Which is is roughly 2 Gallons in volume, or 7.57082356 Liters, or 0.007570824 Cubic Meters. Which expands to 10 Cubic Meters, or 1320 times it's original volume, in 3 seconds time. Which is nowhere near fast enough to replace an automobile's airbag, which expands in 1/30th of a second and the deflates.
That picture would make one heck of a big chemical grenade.
The canister version contains approximately 10 cu. m of foam, as you stated.
A chemical grenade, based on the diameter stated, contains approximately 8.18 cu. m of foam.
Most grenades are roughly the size of a soda can, so the canister - being only about 20% larger, is probably a lot smaller than the one in your picture.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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It's probably more along the lines of those cans of expanding foam you can get at the hardware store.
-k
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You could probably use it to make a simple closet an inescapable cell. Or keep a Johnson from leaving a meet.
One situation may very well lead to the other.
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I really wanna boobytrap a car with a bunch of these.
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You know...in game. ;D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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or just the engine compartment, "My car won't start up right, and there's this toxic smelling smoke welling up from the air conditioning, and I can't seem to open the damned hood to check it out... Hello AAA?"
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I remember a Mythbusters where they filled a car with A/B Foam, it was glorious.
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Yes, and then I had to try really hard not to replicate that.
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OMG I know, we have so much of the stuff in the motorpool and all those trucks too.
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I kept thinking of ways to use a pair of those hydraulic piston water squirters and AB foams, there were just so many improvements I could make!
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Good to see other people on here doing some math.
Having done some of my own its appears that a regular paintball (capsule round from arsenal) should expand out to be ball roughly 60cm in diameter
That should be enough to subdue most targets, especially with a short bust (or perhaps called shots to head or hands???)
On a different note, i had the idea of combining it with explosive foam.... and given that it is related to plastic explosives the hardend form may just go back to be prone to kinetic detonation (help, help some one break this crap of me...BOOM!!! :) )
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Good to see other people on here doing some math.
Having done some of my own its appears that a regular paintball (capsule round from arsenal) should expand out to be ball roughly 60cm in diameter
That should be enough to subdue most targets, especially with a short bust (or perhaps called shots to head or hands???)
That is pretty dang evil, it would look cool as balls but evil never the less. Maybe you would have to mix it with a adhesive to make sure that the foam sticks to the target during the expansion.
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Good to see other people on here doing some math.
Having done some of my own its appears that a regular paintball (capsule round from arsenal) should expand out to be ball roughly 60cm in diameter
That should be enough to subdue most targets, especially with a short bust (or perhaps called shots to head or hands???)
That is pretty dang evil, it would look cool as balls but evil never the less. Maybe you would have to mix it with a adhesive to make sure that the foam sticks to the target during the expansion.
Well, I know what character concept I'm doing next. Demo specialist Troll with an explosive-firing minigun.
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Good to see other people on here doing some math.
Having done some of my own its appears that a regular paintball (capsule round from arsenal) should expand out to be ball roughly 60cm in diameter
That should be enough to subdue most targets, especially with a short bust (or perhaps called shots to head or hands???)
Had a Trickster Shaman use this along with mini-grenades of various payloads (Slab w/ DMSO, KE IV, etc.) in a smart firing slingshot. They never saw it coming.
Headshots bone mage's LOS. Useful to force spirits to take 2 complex actions to de-/re-materialize to keep fighting you. Even if it doesn't take out an aircraft's engines, it can definitely lock up their maneuvering surfaces and mess with aerodynamics. Passable as fire retardant, unless your GM says its flammable and then, well . . . it's flammable!
For extra fun, if you've got 5 karma just kicking around, mix with Shape [Barrier Foam] for extra hijinx!