Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Padawan on <01-23-13/1454:53>
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Hello all! I'm a newbie to this system, having never played before, me and some of my friends are going to be playing in a game in the near future and I was hoping to get some opinions and suggestions on how to possibly improve my character. I do want to keep the roleplay integrity of my character however (something that almost always gets in the way of optimization in my experience haha).
The basic concept is a charismatic assassin who can either snipe or get close to his target with his personality, an expert of infiltration, both physically and socially. He uses his money from contracts to live the high life on his public SIN, and despite the lesser protection, wears suits even in combat situations. A lot of his qualities and skills reflect from his background, but are definitely up for a change around if there's something amazing that I missed or didn't recognize.
Our GM is planning it that our group has been in operation for a couple of years, and gave us 500bp and also let us spend our starting money from lifestyle during creation (so my bp total is slightly skewed in the character creator). Without further suspense, here he is...
Public Name:Tony Gordon
Runner Name:Agent 0
Metatype:Human
Attributes
Body:4
Agility:5(7)
Reaction:4(6)
Strength:4
Charisma:5
Intuition:4
Logic:4
Willpower:4
Edge:4
Magic:5
Essence:5
Initiative:9
Positive Qualities: Astral Chameleon, Erased(10), First Impression, Martial Arts 1(Krav Maga, Take Aim = Free), Adept
Negative Qualities:Mild Addiction(Sex), SINner(5), Nano Intolerance, Prejudiced(5), Flashbacks(5), Big Regret, Distinctive Style 1(5)
Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Increased Phys Attr:Agiility(2), Improved Reflexes(2)
Skills(Skills with * are gained through groups)
Stealth 3 Influence 3 Electronics 2
Disguise 3* Infiltration 3* Palming 3* Shadowing 3*
Con 3* Etiquette 3* Leadership 3* Negotiation 3*
Computer 2* Data Search 2* Hardware 2* Software 2*
Longarms 4 Pistols 3 Blades 2 Exotic Melee Weapon 1(Monofilament Garrote)
Assensing 1 Astral Combat 1
Climbing 1 Gymnastics 2
Tracking 1 Perception 2
Intimidation 2 Locksmith 1
Hacking 1 Demolitions 1
Cyberware
Cybereyes Rating 2
+Flare Compensation
+Low-Light Vision
+Smartlink
+Thermographic Vision
+Protective Covers
Cyberears
+Increased Sensitivity
+Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Advanced Cyber Lower Left Arm(4body, 6 Agi, 4Str)
+2 Armor
+Grapple Gun
+Fingertip Compartment(Monofilament Garrote)
Bioware
Vocal Range Enhancer
Weapons: 2x Ceramic Knife(Hidden Arm Slide for each), Ranger Arms SM-4(Internal Smartgun, 110 APDS rounds/10 regular rounds), HK Urban Fighter(Ceramic Silencer, Concealable Holster, 90 regular rounds), Monofilament Garrote
Armor: 7x Berwick Line Suit Jacket, 7x Berwick Trousers, 7x Berwick Shirt(One suit w/ Thermal Damping 2 and Ruthenium Coating)(Each with Fire Resist 1), Ulysses Line Coat, Steampunk Overcoat, SP Vest, SP Shirt, SP Pants(Fire Resist 1)
Other: NovaTech Commlink w/ Iris Orb OS. Mapsoft 2, Decrypt 1, Analyze, Browse, Edit, Encrypt, Defuse, Exploit, Sniffer, Stealth(all at 3), 3x Glasses Rating 4, Monocle Rating 4, Wire Clippers, Flashlight, Gecko Tape Gloves, Rappelling Gloves, 100m Microwire, Lockpick Set, 4x Certified Credstick(194 on 3, 193 on the last), Endoscope, Maglock Passkey Rating 4, High Lifestyle
I know the armor clothing isn't the best choice, but it's only slightly below the average I've seen. My biggest concern is that I feel like my skills are super-thinly spread out, but do my attributes make up for that? (Ex: 1 point in Exotic Weapon, but 7 Agility. 1 Demolition but 4 Logic.) Should I look to consolidate my skills or do my attributes make up for having less than ~3? Will Hardware help me out at all since I have the Maglock Passkey? I'm the only character in the group that can see into the astral world so should I put extra points into that, or is a low amount ok for astral combat (I'm still confused about astral combat... do I use my mental stats or my physical stats? I'm not sure which group I fall into as an Adept). Since I'm the groups Face should I invest more into Influence, or is an 8(10 if first meeting) dice pool good enough? I guess the best catch-all question would be, what is an "average" dice pool at the beginning of a game? Also, one last question... Should I drop a point of armor from the limb to add +1 Agility so it's the same as my real arm?
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You've chosen a good "Archetype", Padawan. A Face Adept/Shoot-you-in-the-Face Adept was my first SR4A build, and it is a super fun one.
Edit: As you've taken Increased Reflexes 2, I am assuming you are first and fore-most a death-dealer (i.e. your most important role in the group is killing), this has largely informed my advice that follows.
First things first;
1. BOD, STR and WIL "should" be odd numbers, as that's when you get box/damage upgrades. Since you're not a Magician, a 3 WIL should do you. Maybe drop that 1 and bump your BOD or STR. Drop which ever of those two you didn't bump by 1 and boost your REA 1 (initiative and passive dodge good).
2. You're not really doing enough with your LOG to justify a 4, IMHO. Drop it 1 and bump your INT 1 (helps initiative and Face-ing).
3. Unless your GM has a liberal EDG policy (i.e. it refreshes every SESSION, not every run), 4 is too high IMO. Put it at 2 and do other things with the BP.
4. Don't hard-max your MAG. Take 5, lose 1 to ESS, and get other things with those 35BP it would take you to get 6(5) MAG.
5. This is important - especially since you're an Adept, do not use ESS on cybereyes and cyberears, you can get contact/glasses and earbuds with visual enhancements, and your ESS/MAG is too precious. For your role, I don't know that a cyber-limb is the best use of your ESS either, you can buy a grapple gun, and probably conceal it easier than that arm... meanwhile you could get Muscle Toner +2 AGI (eventually +3 or 4 with Alpha/Deltaware, which will help your Firearms AND Infiltration - and numerous other things, whereas your cyberlimb only helps your Firearms - assuming it's high AGI), and Tailored Pheremones 3 - you'll be able to talk the habit off of a nun, Vocal Range Enhancer is meh, IMO.
6. Your skills are spread too thin. Drop Hacking, you're not a hacker. Drop Locksmith - get an Autopicker. Do you NEED the electronics group? All you need for Infiltration is Hardware, and with the 20BP you've spent on the Group (most of which you'll do nothing with) you could have a 4 Hardware and 4 BP to spare. Which is more important for your concept - Influence Group or Stealth Group, drop one to 1, raise the other to 4 and bank 10 BP on the deal. Pick one Ranged Weapon (Pistol, Longarm, Automatics) and one Melee Weapon (Unarmed, Blades, Clubs, Exotic) for your Offensive skills. Put your most important combat skill at 6, and bank the rest of the BP. If you're investing in Astral Perception as an Adept, go whole hog and help out your Assenssing with these BP you're saving - get it to 4. You should probably help out your Perception too - get it to 4, all your skills don't mean jack if you get caught with your arse in the breeze.
7. Powers: drop Increased Phys Att this is a horrible way to boost stats, buy the Toner, get Kinesics or Combat Reflexes or something, anything, instead.
P.S. Chargen Maglock Passkeys generally suck, don't rely on them. Hardware will always get you in, if you have the time (and no Tampering Alarm to deal with).
My table, at chargen an average pool (i.e. 2ndry role - Stealth and/or Face for you) is 9-12, your primary role (Combat for you) skill should be around 15 at my table. I play at what some might consider a high-power table, and my advice is geared towards that - take from it what you will.
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Oops, I apologize. I didn't hard cap Magic, forgot to note the decrease from 'ware. I'll edit that in.
As for needing the Electronics group, I'm honestly not sure. I'm used to playing in games that say "not trained? can't use it". And I thought everything is rounded down in this, that seems to be the general rule in the book. But if it's odd then that is definitely awesome.
Just wondering, why is Imp Phys Attr so horrible? It's free attribute points vs the 16k it'll cost for toner, and no Ess cost.
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As for needing the Electronics group, I'm honestly not sure. I'm used to playing in games that say "not trained? can't use it". And I thought everything is rounded down in this, that seems to be the general rule in the book. But if it's odd then that is definitely awesome.
Just wondering, why is Imp Phys Attr so horrible? It's free attribute points vs the 16k it'll cost for toner, and no Ess cost.
Assuming your group has a Hacker or Rigger or other LOG type, leave the Electronics to him/her. You don't need to and shouldn't try to do everything.
16K is roughly equal to 3.2 BP (5K per BP), the 0.4 ESS/1 MAG brings that to 13.2 BP (and really, 7.2 BP if you've already decided to fill out your 1 ESS/MAG with 'ware, that 1 ESS/MAG cost is defrayed across all 'ware at the cost of ESSx10BP i.e. 0.4ESSx10BP=4BP+3.2BP in Y=7.2 BP investment). Then when you consider Alpha and Deltaware, you can get 3 or 4 AGI for that same ESS (and therefore that same 7.2BP), this is figured because Y shouldn't be an issue for you after chargen - as you're improvement is Karma investment heavy (as opposed to Y investment heavy) - therefore you're getting super cheap stat bumps from the 'ware and that 7.2 BP. Improved Physical Attribute on the other hand is 1 PP per level, that's essentially 20 BP (2 MAG) for your Level 2. Even if you get a Way and a Geas to cut that in half, you're still at 10 BP. Getting that Improved Phys Att to the same 3 or 4 which 'ware will get you to, essentially for no more than initial investment, you're looking at 5 - 20 more BP (although now it will be 10-40+ Karma, with initiation) after chargen. It's a no-brainer, man.
Speaking of which, are you allowed to use Adept Ways and the Optional Adept Geasa rules?
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We are allowed to use anything that's in an official book. It's a lot to digest all at once having never played before. (Unlike Pathfinder where I've been playing since around the beginning and was able to slowly look at the additional books as they came out)
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We are allowed to use anything that's in an official book. It's a lot to digest all at once having never played before. (Unlike Pathfinder where I've been playing since around the beginning and was able to slowly look at the additional books as they came out)
Yeah, it's definitely a lot, especially once you get into Hacking and even being a full Magician... I'm still the noob of noobs on those after 5 or 6 months or so of learning >.<
Do a little planning for the Powers you'd like to have 3-4 MAG down the line, see if they align with any of the Ways. If so, you may want to make room in your PQs for a Way (like the Warriors Way with your Increased Reflexes...). But keep in mind, for it to pay off, you'll have to get back more than 1 MAG/PP in saved costs, and at 25% a pop that can sometimes be hard.
Regarding the Optional Adept Geasa rule (in Street Magic), work with your GM and figure out a Geas or multiple Geasa that you can put your abilities under and get some free PP.
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So just a theorycraft question about the Ways.
If I chose Warrior and chose Imp Reflexes and "X" it would reduce Imp Reflexes 3 from 4PP to 3PP, twould this fit into "Saving 1 Mag in costs for it to be effective"? Or is it only .5 because I've already put 2.5 into Imp Reflexes?(Would I want to sink that much into Imp Reflexes, or is it better served elsewhere?)
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If I chose Warrior and chose Imp Reflexes and "X" it would reduce Imp Reflexes 3 from 4PP to 3PP, twould this fit into "Saving 1 Mag in costs for it to be effective"? Or is it only .5 because I've already put 2.5 into Imp Reflexes?(Would I want to sink that much into Imp Reflexes, or is it better served elsewhere?)
Applying it towards Imp Reflexes 3 would satisfy the "saving 1 MAG in costs", but I definitely wouldn't go with Imp Reflexes 3 out of the gate, you start hitting diminishing returns at 3 IPs (2 IPs is twice as good as 1, but 3 IPs is only half as good as 2... etc.) which only a primary combatant really needs 3 IPs initially (or rather, can justify the considerable investment it takes to get that many). If (far far) down the road you don't know what else to spend PP on, sure, go for IR3. But at chargen you'll get more mileage with some Power diversity.
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You only have 6 perception dice. You might fall into something describable by a line from a song.
"Because an ambushed ambush isn't nice"
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For your concept and as a wared adept, Synaptic Boosters and Muscle Toner are always good additions. Muscle Toner is actually MUCH better (math-wise) than Improved Attribute: Agility.
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Alright. I took a good amount of your advice Em, this is my new version. (I did keep some of the things you advised against for the role-play aspect of the character, but I am very happy I listened about subbing the arm for muscle toner, now that I see just how big an effect it had on the character creator I'm completely sold on it)
Attributes
Body:5
Agility:5(~8~)(Had to avoid sunglasses haha)
Reaction:4(6)
Strength:3
Charisma:5
Intuition:5
Logic:3
Willpower:3
Edge:2
Magic:5(4)
Essence:5
Initiative:11
Positive Qualities:Erased(10), First Impression, Martial Arts 1(Krav Maga, Take Aim = Free), Adept, Way of the Warrior
Negative Qualities:Mild Addiction(Sex), SINner(5), Nano Intolerance, Prejudiced(5), Flashbacks(5), Big Regret, Distinctive Style 1(5)
Adept Powers: Astral Perception(1), Improved Reflexes(2)(1.875), Quick Draw(.375), Nimble Fingers(.25), Commanding Voice(.25) (Saving the last .25 for when I can afford higher abilities)
Skills(Skills with * are gained through groups)
Stealth 2 Influence 3
Disguise 2* Infiltration 2* Palming 2* Shadowing 2*
Con 3* Etiquette 3* Leadership 3* Negotiation 3*
Longarms 5(+2 w/ Sniper Rifles) Pistols 3
Blades 2 Exotic Melee Weapon 1(Monofilament Garrote)
Assensing 3 Astral Combat 2
Climbing 1 Gymnastics 4
Tracking 1 Perception 4
Intimidation 3 Demolitions 1
Hardware 3
Cyberware
Cybereyes Rating 2
+Flare Compensation
+Low-Light Vision
+Smartlink
+Thermographic Vision
+Protective Covers
Cyberears
+Increased Sensitivity
+Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Fingertip Compartment(Monofilament Garrote)
Bioware
Vocal Range Enhancer
Muscle Toner 3
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I would recommend putting your REA at a base 5, rather than INT, because your passive dodge will be used 100x more often and more critically than anything your INT will do for you.
IMO Blades is a bad choice for you because you aren't strong, and possibly because they aren't particularly concealable. You could take unarmed, never be able to be fully disarmed, be 100% concealable, use a stun glove and be wayyy more effective in melee than you presently are with blades.
Regarding keeping the cyber, its not just ESS, there are (prevalent, depending on your GM) cyber-scanner security measures to detect cyber (but not bioware, and viz enhanced contacts and glasses are not illegal in and of themselves) that will shut down your best and easiest means of infiltration as a Face: the front door. Just something else to consider.
You can't take Toner 3 without Restricted Gear which you don't have, and shouldn't take as its a waste of the Quality (IMO).
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Drop the cyber eyes and ears to get earbuds, contacts and glasses/goggles, and drop all of the bio ware. You are an Adept, not a Street Sam. Dropping Assensing, Astral Combat and would free up quite a bit to make you better in your areas, and getting rid of that Exotic weapon skill--you're not good with it--as well as the melee combat skills would serve you well (choose melee or ranged, but don't try for both). Improved Ability for your primary combat mode--I'd actually suggest Pistols to be 'primary' since it'll come up more--and Improved Ability for the Infiltration skill as well as Kinesics will serve you better than the Astral Perception, and reducing Improved Reflexes to 1--two passes is all you ever really need--as well as dropping 'Nimble Fingers' would help with that and may even be able to get you a third Improved Ability for those social skills.
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Way to listen to the OPs needs and conditions A4BG, that was good productive input. Oh wait, all you did was come on here to promote your own personal agenda, my bad.
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Ok. I switched reaction and intuition around, had taken it in intuition just to bump perception. Is there a bioware version of the hearing enhancement to hear sub/ultrasonic noises?
For the blades I took two hidden arm slides since it says pistol size, not just pistols, and they're ceramic to avoid MAD. And that's why I took blades, because I am weaker so unarmed didn't do as much, but I'll take a look at the sick glove, didn't notice it on my first pass through.
Our GM says not to worry about restriction since the plot is for us to have already been running for a few years.
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Well, again, I have my table in mind when I make these recommendations (as I don't know about yours), and we see combat every session, so I should have qualified that REA vs INT statement accordingly. I'm also an REA/passive dodge whore - I always try to get it as high as is reasonable. Perception is oft cited as the most used skill in D&D, and probably holds true for SR, so YMMV, but between a good INT anyway, your skill, and your ware, you should be set with Perception.
Anyway, while I may seem to have good ideas they may really only be good ideas for me :P so, y'know, ignore me if something else makes more sense to you.
That being said, the thing with the shock glove is it uses half of your opponents Impact armor, with a 5S dam... Your ceramic knife gives you what? a 3P vs Ballistic armor which is usually higher than Impact anyway?
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Haha, I've actually never gamed with this GM before, but most of your recommendations have been very helpful. I can definitely see why you say not to waste Ess on eyes/ears, just a role-playing thing I'm keeping.
And I have no problem ignoring suggestions (note how I haven't acknowledged a certain viewpoint from someone else :P) but yours have been very helpful, after looking at the glove I am definitely switching, and I'm much happier with my character now!
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I'd like to mention that at magic 5 1 PP is worth 25 bp. ;)
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I hope its okay to ask in someone elses thread but... I like the look of this sort of build that the OP has put together. However I was wondering how you guys would go about scaling it back for a 400bp limit.
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Look at the first link in my signature and the Negotiator for a similar build. However, he's not particularly good at physical infiltration and would need some Hardware (and some Improved Ability for that and Infiltration) to fix it. I can give you more specific suggestions if you like.
If you want to start from the OPs build, the answer is going to be slash all the cost-inefficient things: 4 weapons skills would probably need to be knocked down to 1, maybe 2, Astral Combat is lolz and can go, and the cakeware can go. Might need to go down to Improved Reflexes 1 as well.