Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Reiper on <01-30-13/0013:25>
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My 4th Ed books are on their way, and I understand most of what I'm seeing on Chummer anyways though. I do have one question to ask.
What is the advantage of Electronic Firing?
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1 point of recoil compensation and a penalty to perception tests to hear the shot.
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Also, the firearm is sure to use caseless ammo. No need to police brass! ;D
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Firearms
Firearms are primarily slug-throwers. Many weapons offer two versions, for standard loads or for caseless ammunition, though the latter is far more common in the 2070s. A weapon can fire either type of ammunition, but not both interchangeably.
Technically, you could do that out of core.
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Though if you try using certain weapons in sustained fire and you claim it's caseless a clever GM might say that your gun starts cooking off its magazine, on a glitch of course.
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That's a terrible thing to suggest. I'll have to remember that for future use.
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Though if you try using certain weapons in sustained fire and you claim it's caseless a clever GM might say that your gun starts cooking off its magazine, on a glitch of course.
Making up drawbacks for a tried and true 100 year old technology, isn't exactly being clever.
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No really, that's the drawback to caseless ammo, cased ammo allows the weapon to discharge allot of its waste heat through the brass, and even some through the open chamber. That's why most automatic weapons are open bolt, to allow some heat to escape while the gun isn't firing.
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It's less of an issue today, but rounds cooking off aren't unknown either. "Chainfire" was a major problem for old revolvers, and was the worst, but I doubt that caseless rounds would cook off any more than cased rounds would.
That said, a white-hot barrel and breech after you've chewed through two belts of ammo without stopping would cook off anything! ;D
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Indeed, under normal operating conditions, ammo cooking off isn't an issue. Note that firing a gun until the barrel glows does not count as normal operating conditions. Though as an example of 'bad shit happens' when you critical glitch, there are much worse things that could happen to you.
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Like I said, a glitch, you just emptied your magazine and glitched reloading or the next time you fire, Clever GM says the last 100 rounds you just emptied made the chamber hot and on your bad glitch it starts to cook off your ammo, whoops you missed that heads up on your HUD! Make an agility + Armorer if you have it test to see if you can pull the mag out before it empties!
Not, You just emptied 300 rounds from your caseless Fatal Light, and I'm tired of seeing you shoot, your next magazine cooks off.
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On a regular glitch, it would be more like "Oh look, the clip wasn't put in right, and falls out". On a critical glitch, however...
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Every time I see someone on here talking about what they would do with glitches or critical glitches I get the image of a cheesy cartoon villain rubbing his hands together and cackling maniacally...
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Every time I see someone on here talking about what they would do with glitches or critical glitches I get the image of a cheesy cartoon villain rubbing his hands together and cackling maniacally...
Oddly enough, that's EXACTLY what I do every time a player mentions wanting to cast Wish in D&D (even when I'm not the DM). Ah, Wish, one of those spells that is there to literally give players enough rope to hang themselves, and yet they just can't resist.
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Every time I see someone on here talking about what they would do with glitches or critical glitches I get the image of a cheesy cartoon villain rubbing his hands together and cackling maniacally...
Oddly enough, that's EXACTLY what I do every time a player mentions wanting to cast Wish in D&D (even when I'm not the DM). Ah, Wish, one of those spells that is there to literally give players enough rope to hang themselves, and yet they just can't resist.
Unless you get a player who is a lawyer, and then you'll find almost no loopholes to exploit in the Wish.
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No really, that's the drawback to caseless ammo.
Currently yes, 60 years from now in an alternative future where it's the standart, unlikely.
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Every time I see someone on here talking about what they would do with glitches or critical glitches I get the image of a cheesy cartoon villain rubbing his hands together and cackling maniacally...
I do admit, I do enjoy glitches and critical glitches as a GM, whether its the PC or NPC that has them. Its fun coming up with consequences to their actions.
Although my biggest enjoyment is critical glitches on people who are trying to powerplay the GM all night.
The worst one I've ever witnessed was SR2nd Edition, our guy was trying to disarm a bomb, and rolled 9 1's. He died, I died, the hostages mostly died. The Rigger and Decker lived because they weren't on the level we were on. But we had fun, and he bought us pizza for the next two weeks because of us having to start up new characters.
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Every time I see someone on here talking about what they would do with glitches or critical glitches I get the image of a cheesy cartoon villain rubbing his hands together and cackling maniacally...
Oddly enough, that's EXACTLY what I do every time a player mentions wanting to cast Wish in D&D (even when I'm not the DM). Ah, Wish, one of those spells that is there to literally give players enough rope to hang themselves, and yet they just can't resist.
Unless you get a player who is a lawyer, and then you'll find almost no loopholes to exploit in the Wish.
And THAT is when it gets fun! Because no matter how clever they are, they can't think of everything. But I make a point of not twisting wishes if they stay within the 'set effect' list. The moment they get into that 'or anything else' section, though, the gloves come off. Just how it works out depends on how they're getting the wish (a Djinn is going to screw you, period) and what their motivations are (Bringing back the NPC who died defending the people against the demon horde? Yeah, we'll be nicer than we would to anyone asking for a wish that involves a harem.)
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No really, that's the drawback to caseless ammo.
Currently yes, 60 years from now in an alternative future where it's the standart, unlikely.
You're right, nothing bad will happen in the future, the laws of thermal exchange will finally be defeated and the threat of something going wrong on a roll of four 1's and no hits will be a thing of the past.
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No really, that's the drawback to caseless ammo.
Currently yes, 60 years from now in an alternative future where it's the standart, unlikely.
You're right, nothing bad will happen in the future, the laws of thermal exchange will finally be defeated and the threat of something going wrong on a roll of four 1's and no hits will be a thing of the past.
Different materials have different interactions with heat. Given that it's explicitly stated that most ammo in 207X is caseless (SR4A, 316), it seems likely that they've dealt with that specific issue.
Which means other things go wrong on a critical glitch (though, what serious shooter would only have 8 dice?).
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Anyone who tried to make a well rounded character? "Professional" NPCs? I'm just putting it out there as something more interesting than "Your gun blows up" or "The Clip falls out". And even advanced ceramic materials can hold ALLOT of heat, that's what they make dry cells out of for advanced steam engines. And I'm guessing propellant technology has advanced enough that that caseless round of 2070 hits 5 times harder than that .357 of 1999, releasing that much more waste heat.
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So, characters that aren't serious shooters?
Nobody throws 8 dice at their specialty, and for the most part characters that aren't serious shooters aren't going to be firing enough rounds for such an issue to come up.
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Jeeze, get on me for using 8 dice in an example. Yeah, well rounded, someone who is skilled in more than just shooting at people, my cyber panther street sammy has a dice pool of 14 with its revolvers without smart link, my normal hacker has a dice pool of 8 with automatics, both of them get by fine.
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Jeeze, get on me for using 8 dice in an example. Yeah, well rounded, someone who is skilled in more than just shooting at people, my cyber panther street sammy has a dice pool of 14 with its revolvers without smart link, my normal hacker has a dice pool of 8 with automatics, both of them get by fine.
14 seems reasonable, and your hacker is less of a "serious shooter". Do remember that I had that qualifier present.
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I know, but you just put down my entire police force. So I'm a little incensed; granted any of the specialists are at around 12 ish.
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I know, but you just put down my entire police force. So I'm a little incensed; granted any of the specialists are at around 12 ish.
The true serious shooters, at that point, are going to be on the HTR teams or equivalent. The (very, very, very) vast majority of police officers never fire their weapons outside of the range.
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Especially in my city, they're mostly a deterrent by presence. But 4 of them did bring down one of my runner's but he pretty much ran at them without any cover. Lone Star or KE out in the barrens are probably a different story.
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Especially in my city, they're mostly a deterrent by presence. But 4 of them did bring down one of my runner's but he pretty much ran at them without any cover. Lone Star or KE out in the barrens are probably a different story.
Valid, certainly - 207X would have different stats on the use of service weapons my members of law enforcement, but the majority of beat cops in any region will be less capable than even a generalist runner with a bit of a firearms specialty - the officers with runner level of ability aren't on the beat anymore, as they've been migrated to things like HTR or poached by other companies/divisions for their skills.
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Given that it's explicitly stated that most ammo in 207X is caseless (SR4A, 316)
And this has been the case from 2050:s, that line is copy paste of a copy paste from SR1 corebook.
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Though if you try using certain weapons in sustained fire and you claim it's caseless a clever GM might say that your gun starts cooking off its magazine, on a glitch of course.
Making up drawbacks for a tried and true 100 year old technology, isn't exactly being clever.
He isn't making anything up. This happens now-a-days with cased ammo. I've had it happen to me with the .50 cal M2HB and the 7.62mm M60D machineguns. Damned bullets fire as soon as they reach the chamber and cycle the action to load the next round until the belt runs out.
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Though if you try using certain weapons in sustained fire and you claim it's caseless a clever GM might say that your gun starts cooking off its magazine, on a glitch of course.
Making up drawbacks for a tried and true 100 year old technology, isn't exactly being clever.
He isn't making anything up. This happens now-a-days with cased ammo. I've had it happen to me with the .50 cal M2HB and the 7.62mm M60D machineguns. Damned bullets fire as soon as they reach the chamber and cycle the action to load the next round until the belt runs out.
I like you already. :)
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And I loves the MaDuce. M2 .50 cal Heavy Machine Gun.
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I wonder if the BAR had been adopted as the standard rifle if we'd still be using it, instead of that plastic jam'o'lot.
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I wonder if the BAR had been adopted as the standard rifle if we'd still be using it, instead of that plastic jam'o'lot.
The .30-06 is too powerful a round for an assault rifle.
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Blasphemy, that's like saying the 10mm was too powerful, people just have baby hands that need toughening! And it was a battle rifle, more or less, probably closer to a modern LSW, but still.