[Novocrane]

Until they came out with Data Trails, and let people plug in an Attack or Sleaze dongle, Commlinks couldn't hack anything in SR5.

In order to actually hack, you need some amount of Attack or Sleaze rating so you can perform those actions. Commlinks only have Data Processing and Firewall by default.

Doesn't change the situation, nor does it change that while you had the relevant attributes in 4e, you were toast if you tried to use them like your disposable commlink was made by Fairlight.

[Marcus Gideon]

I think they mislead with the term 'wireless bonus'.  It should be 'matrix bonus'.

This ^
Although there are some items that use "wireless bonuses" just to talk with each other. Like Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers, nothing about them working together requires Matrix connections, just a way for them to talk to each other. That would be a "wireless bonus" that can also run through an Internal Router.

When you hold a Smartgun in hand, with a Smartlink installed in some kind of Eyeware... you automatically receive an Accuracy bonus. That is the gun communicating with your HUD, whether by wireless or a cable trailing down your sleeve. The bonus attack dice comes from the gun communicating directly with the Matrix at large. That bonus will not work through an Internal Router or direct connection. There has to be open communication with the Matrix. So Jamming will prevent you from getting the bonus dice.

[kyoto kid]

....I agree that it would make more sense to call it  "Matrix Bonus". 

Still having a difficult time conceptually with the fact what worked before wouldn't now particularly if old gear/ware was well cared for and maintained or faithfully reproduced using the original schematics from the pre wireless days.  Gear and 'ware operated totally independent of the matrix until Crash 2.0 (4th ed). Why would it no longer function just because the old Matrix was crashed in the 60s after which it was resurrected to become the "worldwide wireless cloud" of the 2070s?

I have no issue with a "reset" (which is what 4th ed essentially was), but to retcon and say, no, an older piece of gear just will not work like it should because it doesn't connect to the "cloud" (even though it didn't need to in the past) doesn't make sense from a continuity standpoint.

Given the base ambient noise in a city, a lot of gear would be pretty useless because it is DR 0 as even a noise rating of 1 would block it from connecting to the matrix.

This is where I feel SASS got it right. "Legacy" gear would still work as always.  It may be uncommon and/or require custom work, thus it might have a higher price tag for the advantage of "flying under the radar".

[Reaver]

here's a question:

How do you know that old smartlinks don't just provide the +2 acc  bonus?

Things have changed a LOT since the rules of 3e. New attributes, new mechanics, Edge, limits, and everything else.

It's entirely possible that, that is all they ever did back in the good ol' days. (since there wasn't limits, or edge, and fewer attributes, etc)

So now in the "future" (of the future set game) they not only provide the +2 acc bonus, but if they are wireless, they actually help you shoot better too (for the +2 DP).


and really, it doesn't matter. The smartlink in the book is the only with we have to use. So use it.


And:

All of you seem to miss this little piece of info (EVERYTIME!)

page 27 SaSS

Several of the qualities,
metamagic techniques, spells, and weapon modifications
listed here are not detailed in the Shadowrun, Fifth Edition
core rulebook. Supplemental rulebooks such as Run Faster
and Street Grimoire, which will provide more details about
these items, are coming soon. Where necessary, though,
interim rules are presented here. Any rules presented here
will be superseded by later supplemental rulebooks.

which I take to mean as: "we are not too sure yet what we are doing, so nothing listed here counts if its NOT in a core book. (SaSS is an ENHANCED FICTION after all, and not a rules book, or a gear book... it's a story book)

[Reaver]

and now, lets look at the entry in it's entirety:

page 31
FIREARMS
ARES PREDATOR III
A favorite of law enforcement in the 2060s, the Predator
III combines a rugged frame with a menacing appearance.
Its integrated smartlink system is incompatible with
modern wireless protocols and requires a translator program
and either a fiber optic cable or skinlink to interact
with modern PANs. Older, pre-Crash 2.0 smartlink systems
(such as the one possessed by Lieutenant Lydia Bowden)
require no such adaptations to function properly with the
pistol.
SR5
ACC                      DAM     AP      MODE     RC     AMMO   AVAIL      COST
5 (7)      7P        –1        SA         —       15 (c)     6R         600¥

SR4A
DAM                    AP       MODE            RC            AMMO      AVAIL     COST
5P                         –1          SA                —                15(c)          6R      600¥

Now, lookie at that nifty entry for ACC of 5e.... it states: 5(7) for the smartlink being used.

So the smartlink is providing a +2 acc bonus (the EXACT SAME BONUS as listed in the CRB 5e)

And since we KNOW it's not a wireless enabled smart system (meaning both the link and gun) that would be no wireless bonus for the +2 DP. why? CAUSE IT'S A WIRELESS BONUS!! - you need access to the matrix and the proper gear to get that extra +2 dice.


But really. Why don't you just ASK Patrick? He wrote it all and he posts here. Get him to end the whining.

[Marcus Gideon]

This seems to be a common theme around here lately... asking for stuff from older editions, which doesn't work quite the same way anymore. "Hey, can we have retro antique Version 1.0 that does what it used to do before???"

I came up with a good analogy. Each version of Shadowrun is progressing further down the timeline, sure. But it's also... a Parallel Universe! In one universe, technology never progressed past how the 80's envisioned "the future" would turn out. Computers have to be hardlined from end to end, and you're lucky they don't still rely on vacuum tubes and punch cards.

But in another universe, technology caught up to what we call "modern day" and includes micro circuitry, wireless networking, and all that stuff. However, some things that may still exist in the other universes, don't work quite the same way you'd expect.

So... if your character gets a magic mirror, or a Sliders (anyone remember that show) remote control gizmo... and then travel from the SR3 universe into the SR5 universe, they're going to discover that their Smartgun works differently in one than in the other. It's the same gun, it's the same mean streets of Seattle, but some things are just different.

That's why Smartlinks worked one way in SR3, and now they work another way in SR5.

[Sendaz]

But really. Why don't you just ASK Patrick? He wrote it all and he posts here. Get him to end the whining.

To semi-quote a great man---

Wait...

You expected someone to ask the person who might have an answer and stop whining.... on the internet??

Go home. You're drunk!

[Reaver]

But really. Why don't you just ASK Patrick? He wrote it all and he posts here. Get him to end the whining.

To semi-quote a great man---

Wait...

You expected someone to ask the person who might have an answer and stop whining.... on the internet??

Go home. You're drunk!

Dude. Look at my sub caption.




I'm only 60% drunk!


The rest is all asshole

 

[Duellist_D]

If you want a "retro" Smartlink without wifi shenanigans, the German 2050 Supplement has you covered, since that one was written for SR5, not 4.
You make all your connections via cable and get +2 ACC, but NO bonus dice.
If you want wired Smartlink + Bonusdice, play fourth edition, the mechanics have changed.

[gradivus]

If you want a "retro" Smartlink without wifi shenanigans, the German 2050 Supplement has you covered, since that one was written for SR5, not 4.
You make all your connections via cable and get +2 ACC, but NO bonus dice.
If you want wired Smartlink + Bonusdice, play fourth edition, the mechanics have changed.

In 5th you have two options to get the +2 ACC. from your smartgun system: plug in either to an imaging device that has smartlink or wireless in concert with DNI

You also have two options to get the bonus dice: plug  in to cybernetic smartlink via a router or wireless to any imaging device with smartlink.

The only thing that seems to only have one option is the wind modifier mitigation since you need up to date atmospheric conditions provided by the Matrix.

It's strange the rules do not give the accuracy bonus to  non-DNI imaging devices wireless.

All these people with characters that have smartlink contacts must miss the following:
The smartgun features
are accessed either by universal access port cable to an
imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for
someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection
working in concert with direct neural interface

I guess they must stick a cable directly from the contact to the gun

[Strange]

If you want a "retro" Smartlink without wifi shenanigans, the German 2050 Supplement has you covered, since that one was written for SR5, not 4.
You make all your connections via cable and get +2 ACC, but NO bonus dice.
If you want wired Smartlink + Bonusdice, play fourth edition, the mechanics have changed.

In 5th you have two options to get the +2 ACC. from your smartgun system: plug in either to an imaging device that has smartlink or wireless in concert with DNI

You also have two options to get the bonus dice: plug  in to cybernetic smartlink via a router or wireless to any imaging device with smartlink.

The only thing that seems to only have one option is the wind modifier mitigation since you need up to date atmospheric conditions provided by the Matrix.

It's strange the rules do not give the accuracy bonus to  non-DNI imaging devices wireless.

All these people with characters that have smartlink contacts must miss the following:
The smartgun features
are accessed either by universal access port cable to an
imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for
someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection
working in concert with direct neural interface

I guess they must stick a cable directly from the contact to the gun

Using a router wont give you the bonus dice, only the ability to use functions that allow you to talk to the gun, like 'quick loading function of a smartgun' (CF, 84)

[gradivus]

This allows the use of some wireless functionality,
such as the quick-loading function of a smartgun or
the engagement of a smuggling compartment, but not
those that require an outside network or similar function,
such as skillwire downloads.
CF84<emphasis mine>

The wind modifiers mitigation need the matrix because somewhere it states the Matrix is providing up to date weather/atmospheric info.
Nowhere that I know of does it state that the DP bonus requires something from the matrix other than it the term 'wireless bonus',
So while it only mentions quick-loading for smartgun, to say this means it excludes all other functions of a smartgun would also mean it excludes all other wireless bonuses other than the two mentioned in the paragraph,

They shouldn't have created the router in the first place without having an exact list of which wireless functions it can process...

[Reaver]

oh Spirit's Sake!!!


It's like herding cats!!!

[falar]

This is why Wireless Bonus and Matrix Bonus shouldn't have been rolled into one term.

[Marcus Gideon]

Almost any weapon that isn't specifically a Throwback, comes with some basic wireless functions.

Firearms come with wireless capability and a digital ammunition counter. Ammunition (p. 433) is sold separately. All firearms have the following wireless bonuses in addition to any wireless bonuses on each model:

Wireless: The weapon displays an ARO that tells you ammo levels and ammo type loaded. If you have a DNI, you get two additional benefits. First, ejecting a clip (for weapons that have them) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action. Second, changing fire modes (on models that have more than one) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action.

These functions have nothing to do with the Smartlink. They just happen to be repeated verbatim in the Smartlink block to make it sound fancier.

Incorporating a small camera and laser range finder, the smartlink keeps track of ammunition, heat buildup, and material stress. If you have a smartlink, you can mentally switch between gun modes, eject a clip, and fire the gun without pulling the trigger. The camera lets you shoot around corners without exposing yourself to return fire (at a –3 dice pool penalty). The system makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing for precisely calculated trajectories and high precision over any distance.

Like I said, just a bunch of reiterated fluff, since any gun does most of those same things (except the camera corner shot, that's new)

Wireless: A wireless smartlink provides a dice pool bonus to all attacks with the weapon: +1 if you’re using gear with a smartlink or +2 if you’re using an augmentation for which you paid Essence. Ejecting a clip and changing fire modes are Free Actions.

And again it repeats the Eject and Fire Mode stuff, even though we know that's inherent to guns in general already.

So the only new function the wireless Smartgun has added is the bonus dice.

Everybody uses the Matrix. Most shadowrunners have multiple pieces of gear that use it, often interacting with the Matrix without them knowing it. Smartlinks use it to look up local conditions and calculate firing solutions, medkits access medical databases to analyze and diagnose injuries and then recommend treatment, and your clothes and armor use it to detect wear and tear. And tell you when it’s time to do the laundry.

Most smaller devices don't do a whole lot of processing on their own. They outsource it to the Matrix, and then act on the data when it comes back. That's why I think the dice pool bonus is a Matrix bonux, b/c the Smartgun sensors are recording data, sending that off into cyberspace, and then acting on the firing trajectory that comes back.