[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I had things to say, but they were already said by Michael Chandra and Banshee.

I guess I can add that if you want concrete evidence that Pegasus sometimes creates changes that aren't CGL-blessed, take a look at the Ares Dragon.  Compare its body value in the original CRB release, hotfix errata value/1st reprint, and then the Pegasus German CRB value.

[penllawen]

Absolutely agree ... but it's an important distinction to make, especially here on the forums

Aye, fair enough!

[taranion]

Do you have any source for that claim? Because right now all evidence points to the contrary: Both in SR5 and SR6 Pegasus has made mistakes or significant rule changes in their adjusted version, which are unmatched by the CGL rules and errata. Letting Mystic Adepts freely gain PP is such a change, I have seen zero evidence that this is a CGL-approved change.

During the development of Genesis I was contact with Pegasus for clarifications. Sometimes I got forwarded CGL mail responses, more often I was informed that they contacted CGL for clarifications. E.g. the how adepts gain PP was a last minute change Pegasus needed to make because of an answer from CGL. This makes me pretty confident that most of the changes have been blessed by CGL.

Of course I am not in a position to confirm that for every change they made. Also, I have no explanation why not all those CGL-blessed changes show up in the January update. All I am saying is that Pegasus usually talks with CGL about the changes they make.

[taranion]

Exactly: If you want to know what the official English rules are (which indeed mostly only matters for SRM and strict GMs), unfortunately the German CRB cannot support you as far as I can tell. If you're unsure and want some inspiration for your own houserules, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with using Pegasus. It's simply not official for the English version.

I agree.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Of course I am not in a position to confirm that for every change they made. Also, I have no explanation why not all those CGL-blessed changes show up in the January update. All I am saying is that Pegasus usually talks with CGL about the changes they make.

They usually do, yes.  But as mentioned, not every deviation from the English language rules is something they talked to CGL about.  And there's nothing wrong with that- they have the license to essentially issue their own game over in europe. 

I think the cogent point is that just because something is different in Pegasus' German language rules, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's evidence of CGL's intent.

[Banshee]

Do you have any source for that claim? Because right now all evidence points to the contrary: Both in SR5 and SR6 Pegasus has made mistakes or significant rule changes in their adjusted version, which are unmatched by the CGL rules and errata. Letting Mystic Adepts freely gain PP is such a change, I have seen zero evidence that this is a CGL-approved change.

During the development of Genesis I was contact with Pegasus for clarifications. Sometimes I got forwarded CGL mail responses, more often I was informed that they contacted CGL for clarifications. E.g. the how adepts gain PP was a last minute change Pegasus needed to make because of an answer from CGL. This makes me pretty confident that most of the changes have been blessed by CGL.

Of course I am not in a position to confirm that for every change they made. Also, I have no explanation why not all those CGL-blessed changes show up in the January update. All I am saying is that Pegasus usually talks with CGL about the changes they make.

But at the same time those of us on the errata team have submitted changes to Jason saying this is how Pegaus did it and then he says no ... so there's that. As I said earlier Jason does review at least most of what they do but I wouldn't count it with the same weight until you see the same change in the English version.

Edit: sniped by SSDR

[imthedci]

Normally I wouldn't mind it taking so long, but they already updated the CRB, so they know what the errata is. I know that they're working on more than one thing at a time and errata usually gets put on the back burner. I understand that part. What i don't understand is why it takes so long to just put the errata on a sheet of paper. I know there's fancy layout stuff that has to be done, but I really don't see where that should take more than a day or two.

Also, I know they got bit in the past for missing deadlines, but the whole radio silence thing they have going on now is getting to the point of ignoring everyone. If it's going to take a little while to get the errata sheet out, I don't love it, but that's ok. Just tell me that. Keep me in the loop. Otherwise it feels like you don't care about me. 

[taranion]

But at the same time those of us on the errata team have submitted changes to Jason saying this is how Pegaus did it and then he says no ... so there's that. As I said earlier Jason does review at least most of what they do but I wouldn't count it with the same weight until you see the same change in the English version.

I get your points.

*sigh*  That does not help at all. If Pegasus reaches out to whomever at CGL with a question, gets a reply, prints it, you contact Jason and he rules otherwise - then the whole process is broken.

In the german forums there is a thread where the person responsible for the errata is collecting requests and compiles a list of things to ask CGL for clarifications. One would hope that CGL would remember the questions and the rulings they made and use it for their own errata. From what you said, I am not very confident anymore.

[skalchemist]

But at the same time those of us on the errata team have submitted changes to Jason saying this is how Pegaus did it and then he says no ... so there's that. As I said earlier Jason does review at least most of what they do but I wouldn't count it with the same weight until you see the same change in the English version.

I get your points.

*sigh*  That does not help at all. If Pegasus reaches out to whomever at CGL with a question, gets a reply, prints it, you contact Jason and he rules otherwise - then the whole process is broken.

This seems like a really important point to me. 

Assuming that a) Pegasus asked about some change, and received an answer that they printed and b) that change was then rejected for the English language rules, then that is like the worst of all possible worlds.  It both increases confusion, and also treats the German language version as some kind of red-headed stepchild set of rules. 

I get that the powers that be might not have that much time to review the German changes, but the better response would be to either tell Pegasus "sorry, we cannot answer your questions yet" and then Pegasus has to make some hard decisions (e.g. make no changes to their version, or print knowing they may end up on the wrong side of it), or answer their questions and then stick with their answers. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

...and then Pegasus has to make some hard decisions...

FWIW, when Pegasus prints rules that contradict with CGL, I presume this is the reason why.  I seriously doubt they do it just for giggles.

But again, when Pegasus deviates from CGL, it does NOT necessarily mean the deviation shows CGL's intent.

[Michael Chandra]

Until Spinrad grows powerful and dumb enough that they dare send hitsquads after people following the Wyrm's rules, you don't have to worry about your home games.