[RHat]

So, anyone up for actually being constructive, rather than putting down and insulting the new guy? I wasn't looking for affirmation of my house rules, and was honestly more interested in advice with the setting/plot.

No one is insulting you, but rather advising you to run with the actual rules first instead of some weird collection of house rules that do seem to be inspired by the "CGL Bashing Trolls".

Then he needs to work on his delivery, because his tone has been dripping; especially with the obvious assumptions that I have no first-hand experience with the system (which is subjective, at best).

You never said wired - that is a different case, though splicing into the cable (hello microdrone) certainly becomes an option.  Or just stealing/hacking/gaining the Access ID of a device with access.

And if you think my tone is dripping, well...  There's no nice way to say it:  Grow a thicker skin.  This is a pretty polite approach to this conversation, and if you're taking that personally, it is the furthest thing from being anyone's fault but yours.

And this little "hack and forth" doesn't really get at why you think the Matrix rules are broken.

[Mara]

Then he needs to work on his delivery, because his tone has been dripping; especially with the obvious assumptions that I have no first-hand experience with the system (which is subjective, at best).

Are you familiar with the Tacoma Narrows Bridge? It was designed by people with all the relevant knowledge. However, they lacked
practical experience with that type of location. The bridge looked good on paper.

Have you played SR4A? Have you hacked against a GM using the full hacking rules in Unwired and the BBB? Have you GMed using them?
Have you run the system? One thing about RPGs I have learned over the years: there are things that seem to make no sense when
you just read them, but when you run them, you see why the developers and writers did what they did. You asked the veteran GMs
on this forum for advice. I have been gaming since 1992. I have played and GMed dozens of systems. The one constant I have seen
through all those years and systems is: Play system "as is" first, house rule as little as possible, and based only on your practical,
hands-on experience.

[Stahlseele]

so much for reading comprehension.
virgil stated that he already played SR4.
he just never GMed it.

[Mara]

so much for reading comprehension.
virgil stated that he already played SR4.
he just never GMed it.

I just looked through all his posts in this thread. No where do I see him explicitly state this. The closest was when he stated that
he doesn't need to play to know the matrix is broken. Frankly, no system is anymore or less broken then the GM lets it be. That
he gets defensive when people suggest running with the rules as is, or asks him about his SR4A experience, in fact, is somewhat
suspicious.

[Stahlseele]

so much for reading comprehension.
virgil stated that he already played SR4.
he just never GMed it.

I just looked through all his posts in this thread. No where do I see him explicitly state this. The closest was when he stated that
he doesn't need to play to know the matrix is broken. Frankly, no system is anymore or less broken then the GM lets it be. That
he gets defensive when people suggest running with the rules as is, or asks him about his SR4A experience, in fact, is somewhat
suspicious.

And i stand by my point of insufficient reading comprehension because of postings like this.

and I'd be saying that to anyone listing off a bunch of starting houserules for their first time playing the system, not just when they're coming from a number of misconceptions (like when you call the Matrix rules utterly broken).

Wait, deciding the Matrix rules are broken is a misconception on their/my part?

Assuming the standard definition of broken?  Quite.

I don't need to play/run a bunch of Shadowrun to see the flaws in the Matrix rules, and how they can readily and thoroughly break; reading comprehension on my own part showed me that.

Also, I have played this game before. I stated I had never DM'd for it, which is different. I do appreciate the more constructive input, and am actually thinking about things on my end.

[virgil]

And this little "hack and forth" doesn't really get at why you think the Matrix rules are broken.

Says the person that thinks Data Search replaces the need for a Matrix Perception Test of every icon on a node.

[JoeNapalm]

A node under DDOS attack has three options. First, it can spoof its access ID, so that the DDOS can no longer find its target. The node must be offline (not meshed with other nodes) to switch access ID. Second, it can try to block access from botnet access IDs or attempt to filter out all flooding traffic. The success of these latter options is largely up to the gamemaster’s discretion.

And that brings up the fact you can automagically stop ALL hackers by messing with Access IDs. You only make Matrix Perception tests on icons on the same node. If you need the Access ID of something, for example, on the node to get in the node, there's nothing you can do. Don't forget, nodes can totally refuse you without rolling dice for not having an Access ID (Unwired p. 99) or for having an Access ID they don't like (Unwired, p. 101), which can totally be "every Access ID that isn't the one I accept." Before you try to be clever and go on about spoofing one of those Access IDs, you need to share a node with one of the icons that already has one of the accepted Access IDs. If a system doesn't put any of its icons that are allowed into the restricted areas into non-restricted areas, you can't hack it.

No offense, but I'm not sure you really grok the Matrix rules.

Access IDs do not create an impregnable data fortress. Access ID level security is used for things like garage door openers. With all due respect, if you cannot hack a garage door opener, you need to re-read the Matrix rules, specifically Hacking the Matrix, starting on SR4A 235.

If you don't have an Access ID for a node, you can either hack it, or your can simply spoof it. Spoofing is not the impossible task which you seem to think - all you have to do is either sniff the traffic going into and out of the node, or simply observe an authorized user.

The only nodes that don't have any traffic or users are "black hole" data islands. That sort of node would only be used by either the Government, major Corp, or other major league badasses like Dragons and the Vorovskoy mir, and then only for data that they really really want to protect, but don't need to access. You can still get in, you just have to hack it. My advice would be, before attempting to hack such a node, you should look at the bones. Look at the bones, man!

With that out of the way, off topic and onto the tone:

This thread is in a death spiral. Some people, when they ask for advice, are actually looking for help with the rules. Other people are simply seeking affirmation. If you are the former, your tone (whether you mean it or not) is coming across as defensive and combative - if you want people to respond to you in a more civil tone, first look to your own posts. If you are the latter, godspeed.  There are tons of incredibly knowledgeable people on these forums, more than willing to help, but they're not going to bow down and kiss your ring.

As the saying goes - if you want respect, first you have to give it.

Or, as the other saying goes:
"If everyone thinks you're being an ass...you probably are."

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[emsquared]

So, anyone up for actually being constructive, rather than putting down and insulting the new guy? I wasn't looking for affirmation of my house rules, and was honestly more interested in advice with the setting/plot.

I hope you have found my input constructive virgil, I don't think I've put you down or insulted you, even when you became combative. And I know it seems everyone is just being dicks when all you're hearing is "you're doing it wrong", but truly the vast majority of input has just been long-time players and GMs attempting to guide you to what they have found to work for a rewarding and fun gaming experience.

The point of gaming should be the RP and the story, the rules are just the framework. Even if the frame doesn't meet end-to-end in some places, it's easy enough to bridge the gaps (adjust target numbers, adjust die pools, adjust whatever - on the fly) so that it makes a good story. You don't need to build a new frame.

My constructive advice:

1. Give Karmagen a try, do the 750 Karma) buy (375 limit to Attributes), plus my formerly mentioned BP Cost = Karma Cost for Metahumanity. If you want to free up a few additional Karma for skills for you players, give them CHAx2 free Karma for Contacts and INT+LOGx4 free Karma for Knowledges. This is actually my favorite way to do Karmagen - though I've never found a GM (yet) who would do it. If you really feel you need to help out Magicians/Adepts (in addition to using Ways and Optional Adept Geasa rules), take MAG out of the 375 Attribute limit.

2. Don't take the Matrix too seriously - which is to say, don't try and take make it as complex as it really should be. You can easily bog down a run, leaving your non-hackers staring at their phones. I'm not familiar with Ends, so I don't know what it does, but IMHO - extract the most salient concepts/programs and use them, water-down the rest, and just strike a balance between a) keep things moving with as few checks as possible as is necessary to b) challenge your Hacker appropriately and c) represent the complexity/difficulty of the system - with a heavy weighting towards keeping things moving.

3. You said your players have played 3rd, so maybe this won't be an issue, but don't be too much of a hard-ass in the beginning - do make their actions (i.e. stupidity) have consequences, but go easy at the outset. The "Big-Brother is Everywhere" thing is where me and my group struggled at the beginning - covering our asses.

4. It's a little cliche to go with the "No Run is as simple as it seems." approach or the back-stabbing Johnson, and while they're both good tools - and should be employed - don't over do it. Some runs should be as straightforward as they seem. But (with advice 3 in mind) then what are the unexpected consequences? Who were those bulbs actually meant for? What is the client doing with the bulbs, and could it come back to bite the players later on? Who's gonna be pissed and looking for the guys that took 'em? What else did they fence that can be used to track them? Have it come down through the grape-vine. Use contacts as integral characters in your story. It's unfortunate when they're just used as proxy checks for acquiring stuff or finding out stuff or mending wounds, etc., in the best Cyber-punk - the "Contacts" are characters you care about and your players should care their Contacts (appropriate to their Loyalty ). Make their Lifestyles a living part of the story, the Neighborhood and Security are given ratings for a reason. Make the story come to them, if they living in a crappy neighborhood (or even if a nice one) and have lax security, thugs see them come and go with fly gear (high-postin', as they say), maybe the get broken into while they're gone and have their stashes stolen - having them get it back is the fun part.

5. Have fun, don't get hung up on the rules.

[virgil]

Thank you, emsquared.

T99 needs the bulbs for weapons research, specifically to investigate the viability of making anti-spirit lasers and high speed astral photography. I haven't quite figured out the goal of the Illuminates in getting the bulbs, possibly for PR by using them to highlight the use of magic in front of laymen or general astral security (expensive floodlights, but they're loaded).

[virgil]

If you don't have an Access ID for a node, you can either hack it, or your can simply spoof it. Spoofing is not the impossible task which you seem to think - all you have to do is either sniff the traffic going into and out of the node, or simply observe an authorized user.

Of course, even if you manage to spoof the Access ID, the IC can choose to instead of attacking your icon to just toggle the permission for the Access ID the intruding character is using to "No." Indefinitely, after a cool down, or even after one round; it does not matter because now the player has to start all over on trying to get in without a single opposed test to resist. If spoofing your Access ID grants diplomatic immunity against IC and security spiders, then all of those other Matrix rules are pointless.

[RHat]

If you don't have an Access ID for a node, you can either hack it, or your can simply spoof it. Spoofing is not the impossible task which you seem to think - all you have to do is either sniff the traffic going into and out of the node, or simply observe an authorized user.

Of course, even if you manage to spoof the Access ID, the IC can choose to instead of attacking your icon to just toggle the permission for the Access ID the intruding character is using to "No." Indefinitely, after a cool down, or even after one round; it does not matter because now the player has to start all over on trying to get in without a single opposed test to resist. If spoofing your Access ID grants diplomatic immunity against IC and security spiders, then all of those other Matrix rules are pointless.

That depends entirely on the permissions the IC has.  And as far as Spoofing the ID goes, you do need to remain within the permissions that that ID has, and use whatever other authentication might correlate to that ID.

[Mithlas]

If you're the GM, and you set out to break the game, or allow your players to break the game, I don't have sympathy if you then hold up the jagged pieces and cry to the uncaring skies that it is broken.

A man said to the universe, "I exist."
"Yes," the universe replied, "The fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."

Of course, the poster asked for feedback more than 'say no' (though "reconsider changes" is still feedback that I think isn't being shown to be considered), though I sense more combativeness than is probably good for getting good answers from the veterans here.

If you really feel you need to help out Magicians/Adepts (in addition to using Ways and Optional Adept Geasa rules), take MAG out of the 375 Attribute limit.

Magic/Resonance and Edge are already separate from the 375 attribute limit:

Players may not spend more than half their total BP on Physical
and Mental attributes (for a standard 400 BP character, this means a
cap of 200 BP).

Back to the opening question, the setting seems to leave enough room for any particular specialty-type of character to have something to do, so I can't think of anything to add. The security mentioned might seem light, but a surprise roving patrol could change all of that...

[RHat]

If you really feel you need to help out Magicians/Adepts (in addition to using Ways and Optional Adept Geasa rules), take MAG out of the 375 Attribute limit.

Magic/Resonance and Edge are already separate from the 375 attribute limit

Not in Karmagen they're not.

[JoeNapalm]

If you don't have an Access ID for a node, you can either hack it, or your can simply spoof it. Spoofing is not the impossible task which you seem to think - all you have to do is either sniff the traffic going into and out of the node, or simply observe an authorized user.

Of course, even if you manage to spoof the Access ID, the IC can choose to instead of attacking your icon to just toggle the permission for the Access ID the intruding character is using to "No." Indefinitely, after a cool down, or even after one round; it does not matter because now the player has to start all over on trying to get in without a single opposed test to resist. If spoofing your Access ID grants diplomatic immunity against IC and security spiders, then all of those other Matrix rules are pointless.

Unwired 67 has rules for attempting to terminate a connection. A check is required.

An Access ID is like using a security badge to enter a building. Once you're in, they can deny further access to that badge, but f they want you out, they have to throw you out.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[emsquared]

Magic/Resonance and Edge are already separate from the 375 attribute limit

Not in Karmagen they're not.

This.