[Overlord]

For the longest time something has been bugging me: there are NO guides or rules for creating drones. I find this particularly irksome since drone rigging was the thing that drew me in in the first place. When i was told i could control a horde of robotic minions, like some kind of robotic overlord (hence my title), i jumped on this game like a pack of hyperphagic bears. So far the only rules i have found were in 3E Rigger 3, which is quite different from 4E. I know that i am not alone in this sentiment as  on every shadowrun forum i have seen, people have asked about this. Inevitably these people receive the same responses of “Oh i could do it if i really wanted.”, but never post any of their “ideas”  while Others offer to help make one but not be willing to start the process. And now with 5e on the horizon, people are likely to be even lazier about it; Well FRAG THAT Drek!  I say what about the present? What about those people who are going to stick to 4e even after 5e comes out?

I am tired of all the talk and no walk.  In this thread I intend to start an “Open Source” guide by posting some framework of a guide for drone creation that I have done some work on to use as a starting point. As i have no head for what is balanced I want to get the communities input to shape a relatively simple and somewhat fun (possibly via RP opportunities) and FUNCTIONAL creation guide.  If you have an idea that tears to pieces what has been posted so far, Fine. All that matters is that WE make this thing a reality. I dont care if it takes regularly Bumping this darn thread to keep it going. LETS JUST DO IT!

Note: Please hold off on any example products or component ideas, as the rules are far more important at the moment.
Note: I am duplicating this post in the Dumpshock forum as well and will do my best to update the two threads in tandem.

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Build-A-Drone guide

About:  The purpose of this guide is to give players a set of basic rules and a template process to create custom drones. As we know there are currently no clear rules for performing such a feat in 4E and usually requires the player to go through the process of making a Drone with the GM in a unguided  manner that is time consuming(out of game), confusing, and all around rather irritating when it comes to balancing the drone. With this guide/template it will hopefully streamline the process, maintain balance with 4E rules, allow the creation process to be a bit doable in game, add a somewhat missing layer to the technical skills, and be easy and fun.

Rules:
These rules are used in addition to 4E shdowrun rules regarding drones.

!-Difinitve rule
?-Unsure rule

General
!-Drones made in the manner described below, despite their shape and physical design, are always recognized as a drone, with 2 exceptions. 1-A proper disguise test to make it appear to be something else; however this will only be temporary and follows the basic rules for disguise. 2- You purchase the appropriate component part(s), listed below, which grants exception to this rule.

!-All drones in this guide follow the Arsenal Drone size rules.

?-Drones built without a mode of locomotion at creation, cannot have an Arsenal (book) mod used in its place. Nor can it use any components from step 6 used as its main method of movement without taking a massive penalty, if at all. See Questions below.

?-All drones made through this guide leave 4 modification spaces open, and otherwise do not count towards the component slots. These spaces allow for Modification outside of the creation process (see Arsenal for list). However you may take the option of using those 4 spaces in the creation process for components, giving you 4 additional slots beyond what the drone can handle. If so, consider those 4 slots now occupied.  Any attempt to modify the drone further with parts will incur the over-modification rules (see Arsenal).

Purchasing Parts
-If purchasing multiples of one type of movement parts for a single drone, the player should be given a small discount price for the step. (Example:  buying 3 wheels for a drone, 1 single and a pair)

Creation
-Before creation you should have a blueprint of what you are going to make. This can be obtained from the matrix or of your own design. To make your own blueprint, in game, you must make a extended Logic+_(skill)_ test over X amount of (time). A blueprint grants you (some bonus to creation rolls and or time)..[rules]…Building without a blueprint incurs a penalty of [rules regarding penalty in all areas]. If your GM allows it, you may skip this rule completely.

?-While the components from this list are separate from those you can add from Arsenal, there is still a limit to the number of components that can be incorporated into the drone before it must be bumped up to the next size of drone.

- During creation of the drone, custom software must be made by the player since the drone is being made from scratch. Most parts, legal ones mostly, come with basic software that you are able to build off of. You must however compile it all into the main programming of the drone. To do this you must make an extended test to attempt to create the basic software it will need to function at normal capacity, autosofts not included.

-Code Error- (optional) During the creation of the primary code for the drone, see above, on any roll in which the player gets a 1 on adds as many dice to the bug pool. This only applies to rolls in which the player does not glitch on.  At the end of the extended test, the GM takes an amount of dice equal to the bug pool and roll half the number of rolls that the player made, not counting glitched rolls. Every hit increases the chance that a bug will have formed in the system that the player will not catch by Z%.  If the GM glitches on a roll than reduce the bug percentage added on the roll by half. A critical Glitch does not add to the bug percentage.  The bug percentage cannot exceed 40%.

Using
-Since the drone is custom made by an individual, the PC usually, they understand the inner workings of the drone best. As such any other who attempts to use this drone incurs a -2 dice pool penalty to using the drone while “jumped in” for all actions. (possibly  change this to only penalize piloting tests).

-If during the creation process errors or bugs are made in the code and are not corrected there is a X % that something will not work properly. All or certain rolls, chosen during creation by the GM, secretly get a +1 to the number of glitches in any action or test made. This rule only applies if the GM is using the Code Error rule for the creation process.

-If wheels are combined with legs (i.e. wheels in place of the legs feet), any bonuses from special tires like Smart tires only apply when the wheels are being used for movement.

Repair and Modification
-After completion of the drone, it should be thoroughly tested to ensure that any bugs are removed. After a bug has been found the player must make extended Logic +Software test over [time period] to attempt to remove the bug. The difficult of the test is equal to…. (unsure). Upon a successful completion of the test reduces the Bug percentage to be reduced by X%.

-Since custom drones are made by an individual, they know the most about the drone. Increase the Difficulty of any technical skills used for the purpose of repairing or modifying the drone by X.

-All finished drones movement system have a single primary mode of movement, even if multiple are chosen during creation. If a character wants to add or change the movement system to a different one (say to have drone go from a wheels only to a legs (only or additionally) than the main programming must be modified as well.  The process might not take as long, though it depends on how drastic the change is.

-It is possible to remove components and replaces them with another, However the choices are limited and you are required to rewrite the primary code again.(feels too open to breaking)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Questions and potential Rule issues:  These are issues that need to be addressed in order for this guide to work. While some may have an answer it does NOT mean that that is the definitive answer, and may need further addressing.

------Q/A for players
-What about the shape? : The shape and look of the drone is rather irrelevant to the creation process described here, though it might be relevant to the GM in deciding if something is acceptable. You can have it look like whatever you want, within the constraint of its size and such. However the drone Will be recognizable as a drone no matter what you have it look like. This helps to prevent people from disguising their drone too easily.

-What about the cost? : Any drone you create will no doubt cost more than one you could buy on the market. This kind of process can easily be more expensive than those created by the Mega-corps who can easily afford to mass-produce.

-So why create your own? : Apart from coolness, ego, and so on you are making a custom drone from scratch. You alone know everything about it, giving you a tactical advantage.

-Why need blueprints? : Before you attempt to make something you need to know what it is you are going to be doing. This goes for anything and everything in life. While you may come up with the drone’s blueprint out of game, having your character do it in game adds some more RP value to the process as well as keeping the game somewhat fair. This can still be overridden by the GM if it strikes you both as to big of an inconvenience.

-What about parts from Arsenal vs Components from this guide? :  Some of the mods from Arsenal will no doubt overlap in this list and possibly make them pointless to add. This is unavoidable and inevitable. It also raises the question of why bother with the Arsenal parts if you can put more in a drone via this creation method. Well it will cost more to incorporate it via creation than moding and will be more expensive to have replaced or removed then moding. You can use the parts from Arsenal as components with some exceptions. Some of those will be listed here, others are up to the GMs to rule on. Any rules attached to arsenal parts still apply.

-What about the 4 slots drones possess as per the rules of Arsenal? 

-What about Software? :  Since you are making a drone from scratch the proper software for the drone must also be made from scratch. However most parts and such come with some basic programming and software that you can build on, thus greatly reducing the amount of time it will take to make.  Though even after completion you may want to run some tests to make sure that you were able to get any bugs or errors out of the system and have it run smoothly. 

-what about Autosofts? For the most part little needs to be done here. You may need to tweak some bits of code to adapt it to your new creation, but for the most part, the autosoft is good to go after installation. This is up to your GM.

-Why have a movement step instead of just leaving those parts in the Components section? : This is to help the player get a better feel of what you are going to have your drone look like.  It also gives you drones more Components space.

-Why have you come up with this “system” that clearly isn’t balanced and is an overall foolish attempt? : If you find it so foolish then why are you still reading? I am doing this for fun and would like to get more out of the game.



Note: NEXT POST RESERVED FOR STEPS!

[Overlord]

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Step 1- Size
-This is to determine how large or small your drone will be. This also will determine the body stat of the drone. This also determines the maximum amount of armor, and number of space for components from this list, and base armor to a degree.


Drone Sizes  |  Body  |  Component Space  |  Base armor  |  Pricing or cost adjustment     
Micro                     0                   _ to _                                   0                             +/-_% for sized parts       
Mini                       1                   _ to _                                  0 to 1                     +/-_% for sized parts       
Small                    2                   _ to _                                      1                           +/-_% for sized parts       
Medium                3                    _ to _                                    2                        +/-_% for sized parts       
Large                 4 & Up             _ & up                                3 to 4                      +/-_% for sized parts       
Larger                  >4               As above                                  ?                          +/-_% for sized parts   

?questions?
- should there be a solid price range or a percentage price adjustment for all following parts that are purchased?
-should a drones size limit how much component space is available in a drone that is being made from scratch?
----And if so should going beyond the limit force the drone up to the next size OR begin invoking penalties.
-(Important)How should size determine the creation time for the drone?

Step X.5* Quarks (may be used as part of the Blueprint Step or during other steps when applicable. )
-In this semi-step you may pick design quarks that will impact how the drone behaves as well as how much it costs. Some quarks affect the cost in specific steps, and others affect the total.  Picking a quark means you are making a deliberate design choice

•     Exposed sensors: (Partial, Fully)[______]
• Limited Armor: [____] To save on costs, parts of the drone are not armored
• Fuel Guzzler: [_____] The powersource, while cheap, eats through fuel like a pack of hyperphagic bears.
• Made in china: [__] The part(s) you purchase are cheap imitations of what you were looking for. As a result they may be prone to breaking and need frequent replacement.
• Namebrand only: [___] The company used the tired old tactic of making a specific part only replaceable with parts from the same company. While it was cheap to purchace, you can not replace the component with another, possibly better, part.
• Pre owned parts: [____]
• Buggy parts: [___]

Question:
-Should there be a limit to how many quarks that the player can get?


Step 2-Movement

-This determines the drone’s method of locomotion. Some methods of locomotion give a +/- to handling. This also determines what pilot skill is used to pilot the drone in a given instance. Some methods have a limit to their max speed and acceleration. If you choose multiple methods, you must choose one as the primary method of movement. Only the primary mode of movement receives any bonuses to movement via components

• None- If this option is chosen then the drone Cannot move on its own. It must be carried either by another drone or person. Treat it as if it has Limited Maneuverability. This choice does however not add to its components size and does open the drone up to some unexpected bonuses. Drones with this choice do not have a pilot skill used to control it. It can still be “jumped in” to.
• Legs -This option allows the drone to move about on two or more limbs. These limbs are separate into these categories:  Jointed (limited), Open jointed. It is then broken into these sub categories: Standard foot, Gripping foot,).  This choice uses the Pilot Anthro-form skill and is specialized under Bipedal, quadruped, etc.  when controlled by a person. 
• Treads-This option allows the drone to move about on treads like a tank. This choice uses the Pilot Ground Craft skill and is specialized under Tracked when controlled by a person.
• Wheels-This option allows the drone to move across the ground on one or more wheels. Depending on the number of wheels, it uses the Pilot ground skill with either wheeled or Bike specialization to pilot. This is compatible with all tires, though must be bought separately.
• LTA-This option causes the Drone to become lighter than air like a blimp. It has small props or turbines that allow it to move forward or backward. This choice uses the Pilot Air Craft skill and is specialized under LTA when controlled by a person.
• Prop(s)-air-This option grants the Drone movement through the air via one or more props. This covers several categories:  Fixed-Wing, Tilt-Wing, Rotary Wing.  This choice uses the Pilot Air Craft skill and is specialized under the matching category when controlled by a person. Note: If this is the primary move of movment for the drone, the parts for this choice are chosen in the next step.
• Jet-air-This option grants the Drone movement through the air via one or more jet turbines that allow them to move quickly through the air. This covers two catagories: vector thrust(vtol) and fixed wing. This choice uses Pilot Air Craft skill and is specialized under the matching catagories when controled by a person. Note: If this is the primary move of movment for the drone, the parts for this choice are chosen in the next step.
• Prop(s)-This option allows the Drone to move through water. This grants the drone buoyancy and water tight engine, though shape does matter in this case. This does not allow the drone to go underwater. The proper Components must be installed to go under water. This choice uses the Pilot watercraft skill and is specialized under the motor boat or submarine category when controlled by a person.
• Other-This option is for odd or unconventional methods of movement such as tentacle like appendages, pogo stick like limbs, parts that mimic animals like fish tails or bird wings, and so on. This choice uses the Pilot Exotic-craft skill and has no true specialization. If choices like the Tentacle are chosen then a corresponding component like mechanical Arm must be purchased as well. GM’s digression.

{list of various parts with stats}-none yet
Questions:

Step 3-Motors/Power
-In this step you choose motor, servos and such that grant the Drone its speed, acceleration, and strength, Agi  stats (IE the physical Stats for tests). You can use stock parts that come with the parts from the locomotion step and buy better parts to replace the stock later.
(notes: consider having a “power” stat. It must remain above zero after completion or the drone can’t operate. Most components reduce the “power” stat. Engines that are a class size bigger than the drones that they go to take up some component space but output more “power” than the other engines. )
{list of various parts with stats}-none yet
…
Questions:

Step 4-1 -CPU/Brain,Mother Board
-In this step you choose a CPU/Mother Board which is the brain and “central nervous system” of the drone. This will determine the base Pilot the drone can start with(after you perform coding test) and amount of Components that can be incorporated into the base drone. If you exceed the components limit of the drone of a specific size and matching CPU, than you must move up to a drone of the next size category, with costs included.
((((perhaps have the pilot have some effect on or be effected by the number of components? Perhaps not have the Pilot be determined by this part at all?
{list of various parts with stats}-none yet

Questions:


Step 5-Sensor Array
-In this step you pick out the basic sensors that the drone will use to navigate and receive sensory input. Treat this step like you would sensors for a prebuild drone as per the normal SR4 rules. See p.325, SR4 and p.105, Arsenal for these rules. If your GM does not allow you free packages, you can pick them here.

Questions:
-Should the pricing percentage from step one apply to this step?

Step 6-Com/Control system
-This step determines the matrix stats of the drone. This step does not take up any component slots, nor add any large amount of weight.
Note: (while most stock drones come with a basic rating of 3 in these stats,  this allows for more customization)

    Hardware [Signal, Response]

{list of various parts with stats}

    Software[System, Firewall]

{list of various parts with stats}

Question/Note:
-Should this step work just like purchasing a comlink?
-Should this be part of the CPU/Motherboard step?

Step 7-Components
-This is the most important step of creation and is the most open to creative freedom. If you exceed the limit of components that can be given to a drone of a certain size, it must be increased to the next drone size(changes in costs included.) Components do not count towards the slot count for modifications, unless you desire to. (See general rules of this guide).
Note: some do not take up any components space.
{list of various parts with stats and descriptions}

Questions:
-Should the drone size, CPU/Motherboard determine how many components the drone can have?

[DamienHollow]

anything for Bio-drones?

[Sichr]

Bio drones are pretty well described in Running Wild

[DamienHollow]

why can't they write this like Arsenal? What i would like is a book that lets you build critters of various types like cars or drone.

[Sichr]

By what was said on this topic, this issue will be solved in 5th edition IMO. And another IMO: They were trying to avoid BRB curse

[Sichr]

Well, one more thing...I play rigger who barely has enought time to repair existing drones and spend some karma during downtime. Trying to create one using rules listed here, including coding its own SW set, would take possibly more time than his lifetime is going to be
With the number of drones described in rules, arsenal, war, This Old drone etc you have great variety of shapes, propulsion systems etc. Using Arsenal listed modifications on those creates really flexible system even today. Well I understand the motivation of inovator, so I`m glad that OP takes this seriously. What I miss on actual system is more detailed description...we had discussions about drone weight, autopilot tactical capabilities, basic drone equipement (like audio output etc). Also Cargo, seating etc...things known from prior editions.
And Vehicle combat rules in general...imagine one round of vehicle combat = 20s (AFAIK)...trying to  mix this with standard combat situation would leave GM and players improvising or avoiding this rules completely. But...that another topic. Sorry for derailing. thanx for great contribution.

[Automaton]

Any chance to get this guide in PDF or doc format?

[DamienHollow]

By what was said on this topic, this issue will be solved in 5th edition IMO. And another IMO: They were trying to avoid BRB curse

What's the BRB curse?

[Sichr]

Every edition ended with Black Riggers Book (well maybe Riggers Black Book...). When this book, describing all thore vehicle rules, came out, something wrong happened...And new edition was born

[DamienHollow]

Ah, okay... I would still like an arsenal style bio drone book or magazine.

[summers307]

Thanks for the guide! I've always been interested in more drones then the damn core rule book offered.