[nmap]

Hi,

I'm creating a character (I was GMing up until now) and I may need a little help. The idea is, that
- he's a mage, most likely hermetic. we already have shaman in the group, and I'm rather fond of the elemental theme
- also Face, because someone has to do it, or at least he should have some social skills
- he's a former soldier, and was in Dubai (the Spec Ops: The Line Dubai, not real Dubai or canonical SR Dubai)
- he's tatooed in runes that glow gold when spellcasting or summoning (depending on the Force of the spell) - integrated power focus
- he's looking for his sister who's missing

The budget is 425 points -- one character, the shaman, is continuing from the campaign before, and we're supposed to be similarly strong. I'd like to leave the spirit talking and summoning and whatever to her, and just blow stuff up, and summon fire spirits to burn things. Or discuss things over a bottle of something of course.

House rules: I do get charisma * 2 points on contacts, dodge skill doesn't exist, and stick-and-shocks don't exist. That should be all.

What I have is posted lower, but I'm not very happy about it. I know some basic stuff about optimization (like not to get specializations on chargen), but as a former soldier that can't drive or handle gun I'm not all that happy. But I'm running out of points all the time, and I have more than is the usual starting number, so I must be doing something wrong.

Ok, here:


== Info ==
Street Name: Green
Name: Patrick Boyle
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 9
Judge Intentions: 7
Lift/Carry: 6 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 9
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 3
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 4
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 5
EDG: 4
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                6
IP:                        1
Astral Initiative:         6
Astral IP:                 3
Matrix Initiative:         6
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Active Skills ==
Assensing                  : 3                      Pool: 6
Banishing                  : 3                      Pool: 10
Binding                    : 3                      Pool: 10
Con                        : 2                      Pool: 6
Counterspelling            : 5                      Pool: 10
Etiquette                  : 2                      Pool: 6
Infiltration               : 3                      Pool: 6
Leadership                 : 2                      Pool: 6
Negotiation                : 2                      Pool: 6
Perception                 : 3                      Pool: 6
Spellcasting               : 5                      Pool: 12
Summoning                  : 3                      Pool: 10

== Knowledge Skills ==
Alcohol                    : 4                      Pool: 7
Bars and Clubs             : 2                      Pool: 5
Czech                      : 3                      Pool: 6
English                    : N                      Pool: 0
Magical Theory             : 4                      Pool: 8
Magical Threats            : 2                      Pool: 6
Infantry Tactics           : 3                      Pool: 7
Japanese                    : 3                      Pool: 6

== Contacts ==
Blackhouse, johnson, matrix auction house for wetwork (1, 1)
Evy Summers, anarchist terorist johson (1, 1)
Magebook (like facebook, but for mages), works like talismonger (3, 1)

== Qualities ==
Lost Loved One
Magician
Sensitive System

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Hermetic, Resist Drain with WIL + LOG (9))
Boom                       DV: (F÷2)+3
Control Thoughts           DV: (F÷2)+2
Heal                       DV: (Damage Value)-2
Improved Invisibility      DV: (F÷2)+1
Influence                  DV: (F÷2)+1
Levitate                   DV: (F÷2)+1
Magic Fingers              DV: (F÷2)+1
Manabolt                   DV: (F÷2)
Shockwave                  DV: (F÷2)+5
Stunbolt                   DV: (F÷2)-1

== Lifestyles ==
Low  3 months

== Armor ==
Camouflage Suit           8/6
   +Fire Resistance 4
   +Nonconductivity 4
SecureTech Arm Casings    0/1
SecureTech Shin Guards    0/1

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 2   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 0

== Commlink ==
Novatech Airware (3, 0, 0, 3)

== Gear ==
Binoculars, Optical
   +Vision Magnification
Combat Fetish
Cram x5
Earbuds Rating 1
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Fake License (Combat Fetish) Rating 4
Fake License (Power Focus) Rating 4
Fake SIN Rating 4
Glasses Rating 4
   +Image Link
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 3
   +Low Light
   +Flare Compensation
Iris Orb
Jazz x5
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 6
Power Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 2
Spirit Binding Materials Rating 6
Stimulant Patch Rating 5 x10
Zen x10


Any ideas? Or is the thing I'm trying to do impossible?

Thanks.

EDIT: oh, and the GM is pretty conservative, so all stuff should be from basic book only. Well, not only, but cray things like SURGE or power focus 4 on character creation would get me thrown out. But on the other hand, the group should not be very optimizing.

EDIT2: the problem I see, is that what I want is pretty much mutually exclusive: human - hermetic - face. I know that with elf shaman it would be much easier. Hmm.

[Reiper]

I would suggest going Shaman tradition at least for soak just so you have one of your primary stats being used twice (cha for drain and cha for facing).

There's nothing keeping you from staying elemental,

[emsquared]

Mages are BP-heavy, which is to say they acquire attention everywhere. You need to focus on several Attributes, investment heavy skills, of course numerous spells and expensive foci.

If you're gonna do it well (be as good a Face-melter as you are a Face, you really should go with the synergy of combining your Drain Attribute and your Face Attribute i.e. CHA). In which case, you should really consider being an elf. You could make up a tradition that isn't Shamanistic, something like a Diabolist or Demonologist or something more Zen-like, Power-of-Self type of philosophy.

[edit]Removed last bit as instead of trying to make you into the optimal Face/Mage, we'll see if we can get you want you really want in the Hermetic Face Mage, critique of posted PC to follow.[/edit]

[emsquared]

In the interest of trying to get you the PC you want, here are my critiques of the above posted PC.

Drop your BOD to 3 (you should not be getting shot at enough so that  you need the extra armor at char-gen), STR to 1, CHA to 3, and EDG to 2 (sorry, you have better things to do with it).
Raise your REA to 5 (I'm a whore for passive dodge - avoiding damage is more efficient than soaking it - if you're not such a whore, then boost CHA to 5, leave REA at 3) and LOG to 5.

If your group's Shaman is already good at some of these things you can afford to back off of them. Drop Assensing to 1 if he is skilled in it - you raise it post-chargen. Drop Banishing completely - use Stunbolts instead. If you're not worrying much about summoning, drop your Binding to 1 (or completely, I'd recommend completely). Put your Influence group at rank 4. Drop your Counterspelling to 4, boost your Spellcasting to 6. Boost your Infiltration and Perception to 4 and drop your Summoning to 1 - raise it post-chargen.

You should probably pick a Firearm (Autos, Longs, or Pistolas) to have some skill in so a.) you aren't the Obvious Mage and b) you have something to do when you can't risk anymore Drain.

I'm not a fan of 1,1 Contacts so I'd recommend combining your two crappy Johnsons into one worthwhile one (Connection 3, Loyalty 1). At least then he'll have something interesting for you to do.

Consider taking the First Impression Posi Quality, it's freaking fantastic for Faces.

You really need to take 15 more BP in Neg Quals, it's silly not to.

You don't have Improved Initiative spell, this is bad - find some way to get it. You're a Face too, you really need to pick out some spells to help you do this - Mind Probe, Improve Attribute (CHA), etc.

Why are you paying 3 mos worth of Low Life-style? Drop it to 1, pay as you go.

Mage Goggles, they may seem goofy, but just look like a nerd when you have to and get them.

[nmap]

I know, but I really wanted the fire spirits (burn burn burn!) and I think it fits better with the character's upbringing -- he was taught by semi-religious order (the influence and control thoughts spells are from there ... they were not very good people) and it makes more sense to me for it to be hermetic tradition, as that's the structure and cookie-cutter way. Hermeticism is the "basic mage" and can be taught in school, while Shamanism would require personal understanding and stuff.

I'll think about it a bit, and I might be able to convince my GM to let me use Charisma for Drain even as Hermetic, as heretical as it sounds.

EDIT: I'm not sure about improved initiative spell (I can't find it) but you're right about Increase Charisma. With Health Sustaining focus, that could give me better charisma for social stuff, and improved reflexes for combat stuff. That's good.

[UmaroVI]

If it's just that you don't want more than one Shaman, there are plenty of other Charisma traditions out there.

[Reiper]

I know, but I really wanted the fire spirits (burn burn burn!) and I think it fits better with the character's upbringing -- he was taught by semi-religious order (the influence and control thoughts spells are from there ... they were not very good people) and it makes more sense to me for it to be hermetic tradition, as that's the structure and cookie-cutter way. Hermeticism is the "basic mage" and can be taught in school, while Shamanism would require personal understanding and stuff.

I'll think about it a bit, and I might be able to convince my GM to let me use Charisma for Drain even as Hermetic, as heretical as it sounds.

EDIT: I'm not sure about improved initiative spell (I can't find it) but you're right about Increase Charisma. With Health Sustaining focus, that could give me better charisma for social stuff, and improved reflexes for combat stuff. That's good.

I know you are staying core book only, but talk to the GM about expanding on traditions. They really don't affect you that much I don't think, its more fluff than anything.

Black Magic Wil + Cha
Christian Theurgy Wil + Cha
Path of the Wheel Will + Cha
Shinto Will + Char

There's a few more, or you can do your own custom one really. But those are just for i think may work with your char from what you've said.

[nmap]

Ok, my next try. This is made by hand (this computer can't run chummer) so hopefully I computed it right. I'll check it myself, no need to count it for me

B 3 A 3 R 3 S 2
C 5 I 3 L 4 W 4

E 3 M 5

Conjuring group 3
Influence group 3

Spellcasting 6
Counterspelling 4
Assensing 3
Perception 2
Infiltration 2
Pistols 1

force 2 power focus
force 3 health sustaining focus

10 spells:
manabolt
stunbolt
boom
shockwave
heal
improved invisibility
levitate
influence
magic fingers
increase reflexes

10 000 in equipment (that's cheap, but can get me nice SIN, clothes, gun, glasses and low lifestyle, right?)

sensitive system

I reshufled things around a bit, got sustaining focus for reflexes, and got a better at the facey stuff, but payed terrible price, Edge went down to 3, perception to 2. That's not all that terrible, except I'll have to be much more careful about playing the character than any other ever.

For further optimization, I could
- drop the conjuring group for summoning and binding. that would free 6 points, I could use to get the first impression positive quality. that woulf be nice. I'll probably do that. Alternatively, I could scrounge 2 bp somwhere and make it conjuring 4 binding 4, but that would put me at the same dice pool the shaman have, and I don't want to step on her toes. Last campaing (one I GMed) she tried to take somesone's eye out with Magic Fingers! Ahem.

- theoretically, I could switch the mental stats to C 3 I 4 L 5 W 5, switch one of the spells to increase charisma, and walk around with increase charisma sustained in the focus, then switch it to increase reflexes when it looks combat is on the menu. the GM would probably kill me for this though and with bigger charisma, the focus can't handle the spell. Also, the Shaman would laugh at me for being fake.

- if I could convince the GM to let me use Charisma for Drain, I'd probably switch the mental stats to 5 4 3 5, because intuition is used pretty much anywhere. The sustained charisma trick woudn't work, obviously.

What do you think? Any ideas? I think it went all too well, so I probably miscalculated something

EDIT: yeah, I did. Magic 5 + magician is 55, not 45. Noooooooooooooooooooooo ...

[emsquared]

Why do you think you need a 2 STR? Drop it to 1 and raise your WIL to 5, then just spend another 10 BP on raising your LOG to 5 (as is you've only spent 190 on Attributes).

Why do you think you need a 3 EDG? Drop it to 2 to free up 10 BP.

If you don't want to be a Summoner, why are you trying to be a Summoner? Drop the Conjuring Group, and just take Summoning at 1.

Raise you Influence Group to rank 4.

If your Shaman has it covered, drop your Assensing to 1.

Raise your Perception and Infiltration with the saved BP from dropping the Conjuring Group.

Why have you only taken 1 Negative Quality? Take the maximum 35 BP in Negative Qualities.

If you do all this, you'll have a respectable Face/Face-melter with room for 11 spells (so add Increase Attribute - CHA). Why would your GM kill you for using your Gear and Spells as they are supposed to be used? And what are you talking about "being fake"?

And actually, the above is a 400 BP build, with 25 more BP (though I'd ask to take it as 50 Karma if I was you...), you should be able to have a rockin' character, despite the inefficiencies.

[Inconnu]

I'd personally toss on In Debt and grab a 'cycle and 1 Pilot Ground, a pistol, and 2 in pistols-- You can't always afford to be casting, both due to drain and detection. The Sakura Fubuki is actually worth the 2k it costs because you can fire 2 bursts with the same recoil as SA, and they were 4 round bursts. Just toss on Electronic Firing and it's set.(I think you can do that?) Also, you could use a chunk of the BP/Nuyen to grab a weapon focus and a skill to use it. Crippling overspecializing is just as dangerous as ineffectual generalization, so the best course IMO is to specialize then take a smattering of other skills. In Debt will be a bit of a drain on your Nuyen, but if your runs pay decently you should be able to pay it off soon enough. Also keep in mind that you can have a spirit perform a task for a year and a day for it's Force in karma. I'd invest pretty soon in the game on a Force 6 Spirit defending your "residence of choice from uninvited guests",  in other words if you move then the spirit does too.

[nmap]

Why do you think you need a 2 STR? Drop it to 1 and raise your WIL to 5, then just spend another 10 BP on raising your LOG to 5 (as is you've only spent 190 on Attributes).

Sorry, that Will is a mistake. I have it 5 on my paper (and I currently installing wine so I can get chummer and things like that don't happen again). As for STR 1 ... my GM would freak out, and to be fair, when I was GMing, I wuld throw such character out ... I'm not saying it's bad per se, but we're not much into it as a group.

I might drop the focus in case I'm the only reflexed character in group. I know the other are not all that optimizing.

Why do you think you need a 3 EDG? Drop it to 2 to free up 10 BP.

That's a thing I'm not sure about. I like Edge, and I thought it is important for character survival. Even now I'm not sure whether I should take the sustaining focus or Edge (the focus is 9 bp) +1. Is is not all that important? I noticed the archetypes have either edge 2 or 5, is there a reason for that?

If you don't want to be a Summoner, why are you trying to be a Summoner? Drop the Conjuring Group, and just take Summoning at 1.

That's ... well.

I wasn't really clear with that, sorry. I want to use spirits (I love fire spirits for some reason ... and I have already prepared a scene where I summon and bind spirit of man that looks like an angel but with colored glass from church windows instead of feathers on his wings), what I meant was that I dont want to use spirits for other things than combat, and don't really talk with nature spirits and stuff, because I don't want to overshadow the Shaman, and talking with every rock

I'll drop the Conjuring group and take Summoning and Binding 2, probably, that will put me 2 dice below the Shaman. I don't want to be better than her in everything. Tha should free 14 bp, which is enough to raise the Influence.

(the shaman has magic 6, power focus 2 and conjuring and spellcasting groups at 3. it's not all that hard to be better. it also shows the general level of optimiations in our group)

If your Shaman has it covered, drop your Assensing to 1.

Actually, with she's INT 3 Assensing 2, so with assensing 3, I'd be better at that.

Raise your Perception and Infiltration with the saved BP from dropping the Conjuring Group.

Why have you only taken 1 Negative Quality? Take the maximum 35 BP in Negative Qualities.

I'll see what I can do. I'm thinking about In Debt, as that would help with some money problems, but the GM didn't tell me what would happen if I pay off the debt. If it just goes away, it's no-brainer, if it makes 2*bp karma disapper, I might not be up to it. I'll need to talk to him about it.

If you do all this, you'll have a respectable Face/Face-melter with room for 11 spells (so add Increase Attribute - CHA). Why would your GM kill you for using your Gear and Spells as they are supposed to be used? And what are you talking about "being fake"?

All right.

The fake is mostly roleplaying thing, average guy who uses spell to appear more charismatic, I know the both other PCs and NPCs would laugh at me

And actually, the above is a 400 BP build, with 25 more BP (though I'd ask to take it as 50 Karma if I was you...), you should be able to have a rockin' character, despite the inefficiencies.

I don't think he's going to give me Karma

Ok, thanks for everything, I'll shuffle things around a bit and get back here.

I'd personally toss on In Debt and grab a 'cycle and 1 Pilot Ground, a pistol, and 2 in pistols-- You can't always afford to be casting, both due to drain and detection. The Sakura Fubuki is actually worth the 2k it costs because you can fire 2 bursts with the same recoil as SA, and they were 4 round bursts. Just toss on Electronic Firing and it's set.(I think you can do that?) Also, you could use a chunk of the BP/Nuyen to grab a weapon focus and a skill to use it. Crippling overspecializing is just as dangerous as ineffectual generalization, so the best course IMO is to specialize then take a smattering of other skills. In Debt will be a bit of a drain on your Nuyen, but if your runs pay decently you should be able to pay it off soon enough. Also keep in mind that you can have a spirit perform a task for a year and a day for it's Force in karma. I'd invest pretty soon in the game on a Force 6 Spirit defending your "residence of choice from uninvited guests",  in other words if you move then the spirit does too.

Bike! I knew I forgot about something! damn it I need a bike!

Good idea about the spirit, too, and sakura fubuki is already my favorite gun.

[Inconnu]

Also, spirits can do small things within their element without it being considered a task. Of course, the force of the spirit determines how small it has to be and how small won't offend them. If you ask a force 10 fire spirit to light a campfire, he might do it with a fireball. One that happens to catch you in the radius.
I remember when we had a flat. My mage said to a air spirit:"Inflate the tire" my gm's response:"He uses Noxious Breath to fill the tire."

[Mithlas]

As Reiper already mentioned, it's how you RP the tradition more than anything intrinsically about the tradition - unless the Advanced Tradition idea on another thread picks up popularity, 5E's magic book, which I think could be a good thing. Here's a comprehensive list of traditions that use Charisma as a drain stat:

Drain: Willpower + Charisma:
Shaman
Aboriginal
Aztec
Black Magic
Christian Theurgy
Norse
Path of the Wheel (according to its fluff this is usually only practiced by elves)
Shinto
Voodoo

As for being 'fake', there's a good number of Illusion spells (not even getting into mental manipulation) that can let you pull off all sorts of tricks. I tweaked the "Hot Potato" spell with spell-creation rules in SM to come up with "Bug on a Skillet" that lets you send a single target thrashing to the ground...in the middle of a crowd...without anybody else knowing what's going on. Then grab (Trid) Phantasm. Imagine the opportunity for pranks.

[nmap]

So, in the end, I think I'm going to go with this

== Info ==
Street Name: Greeny
Name: Patrick Boyle
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: -1
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 10
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 9
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 5
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 6
IP: 1
Astral Initiative: 6
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 5
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11

== Active Skills ==
Assensing : 3 Pool: 6
Automatics : 1 Pool: 4
Binding : 2 Pool: 9
Con : 3 Pool: 8
Counterspelling : 4 Pool: 9
Etiquette : 3 Pool: 8
Infiltration : 3 Pool: 6
Leadership : 3 Pool: 8
Negotiation : 3 Pool: 8
Perception : 3 Pool: 6
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 4
Spellcasting : 6 Pool: 13
Summoning : 2 Pool: 9

== Knowledge Skills ==
Alcohol : 3 Pool: 6
Bars and Clubs : 2 Pool: 5
Military Tactics : 3 [Urban] Pool: 7 (9)
Czech : 4 Pool: 7
English : N Pool: 0
Japanese : 4 Pool: 7
Magical Theory : 2 Pool: 6
Magical Threats : 2 Pool: 6

== Contacts ==
anarchist johnson (3, 2)
magehub (wolrdwide opensource mages group) (4, 1)

== Qualities ==
First Impression
In Debt (15,000¥)
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sun)
Sensitive System

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Hermetic, Resist Drain with WIL + LOG (9))
Boom (Limited) DV: (F÷2)+3
Heal DV: (Damage Value)-2
Physical Mask DV: (F÷2)+1
Improved Invisibility DV: (F÷2)+1
Increase Reflexes DV: (F÷2)+2
Influence DV: (F÷2)+1
Levitate DV: (F÷2)+1
Manabolt DV: (F÷2)
Shockwave (Limited) DV: (F÷2)+5
Stunbolt DV: (F÷2)-1

== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months

== Armor ==
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit 6/6
+Biomonitor
+Fire Resistance 3
+Nonconductivity 3
+Radiation Resistance 3

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 2 DV: 1S AP: - RC: 0

== Commlink ==
Sony Emperor (2, 2, 2, 3)
+Renraku Ichi
+Subvocal Microphone

== Gear ==
Combat Fetish
Power Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 2
Sustaining Focus (Health) (Bonded Foci) Rating 3

Earbuds Rating 2
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Spatial Recognizer
Glasses Rating 4
+Flare Compensation
+Image Link
+Low Light
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3

Fake SIN (Patrick Boyle) Rating 3

Scotch (bottle) x3
Stimulant Patch Rating 4 x4

Tag Eraser

The radiation resistance is because the GM was hyping us that the first run wil include Geiger counters and cobalt bars. I like Automatics more on an ex-military guy, even though I really love the Molly Millions sliver gun or Sakura Fubuki. I also switched the Hot Potato for Physical Mask, because it gives me more possible subversive tactics and stuff, and I already have anough ways to disable people (and the Bear Shaman Girl Grizz has Swarm, too).

The only changes I'm thinking about now (aside from getting a SMG ... and a medikit) are

1) Dropping the sustaining focus and getting Edge 4 instead. The focus is 9 BP, but would be 6 karma and 30 000 in game, while Edge 4 is 20 karma. And I might not need 3 IPs on first few runs, few doses of Jazz and possibly "I use Edge to go first and AoE spell" might be enough. Though the 6 karma will make my Magic 6 rush harder, and money with In Debt might be scarce. I have already talked with my GM about being able to "send hefty bribe to my former quartermaster to get my old military rifle, boots, armor and most importantly focus back" with no problems.

2) Dropping the spellcasting to 5, doing away with the First Impression a getting Influence 4, getting 9 universal Social Skill pool. I kind of liked it at 6, beucase that makes me two dice more than our shaman on spellcasting and two dice less than our shaman on summoning (also having sun mentor spirit and gold glowing runes on me makes me pretty much Solar Exalted already, so I need dicepool for that! ).

About efficiency, skill 6 is 12 karma and first impression is 10 karma, while Influence 4 is 20 karma. So it would be inefficient, but what I'm thinking is "Is 10 social for people I'm meeting for the first time and 8 for everyone else better and worse than 9 for everyone?" What do you think?

3) Switch to Black Magic. The GM was already saying how he's going to enjoy the contrast between the spirits our Shaman uses (that have personalities and stuff) and my spirits (that are cold, unfeeling, elemental manifestations with no ego and no fear) and I don't want to ruin it for him with Black Magic spirits. However, it would give me ... a lot, actually, because I would not only get bigger Drain resistance, but I could switch Logic and Intiution values and get +1 to Perception, Assensing and Initiative, which are pretty much the most rolled dice pools in game, maybe excluding Spellcasting.

I'll think about it a bit, but the game starts tomorrow.

Did I miss anything else? I know the character is horribly inefficint (it should've been elf shaman, or elf buddhist or something), but I kind of like it.

[emsquared]

It's silly to worry about the couple of Karma efficiency things that you're fretting over below when you're doing just about everything else without regard to Karma efficiency. Just make the character that you want to have. I hope that's what you're doing, and not making the character that your GM and your Shaman want you to have.