[Parker]

Yeah, I know.  I'm going to get yelled at by the 'ole-timers' around this forum, but gotta ask.  When is Catalyst going to push its own version of the 4th world, and if not...then at least tell us so we'll know already!  Oy.     And if it's something they want to keep quiet about for 5th Edition; then fine.  But the suspense is annoying me!

[Mirikon]

I can't see them putting out a whole game setting, like with Earthdawn, but some kind of History of the Fourth World would be cool.

[FastJack]

I can't see them putting out a whole game setting, like with Earthdawn, but some kind of History of the Fourth World would be cool.

I would like to see this myself.

[ChromeZephyr]

I can't see them putting out a whole game setting, like with Earthdawn, but some kind of History of the Fourth World would be cool.

I would like to see this myself.

Just to see how different they make it from the old FASA material, if nothing else.  I'd thumb through it, but probably not buy it.  The Horror angle is probably my least favorite thing in Shadowrun.

[Mirikon]

I can't see them putting out a whole game setting, like with Earthdawn, but some kind of History of the Fourth World would be cool.

I would like to see this myself.

Just to see how different they make it from the old FASA material, if nothing else.  I'd thumb through it, but probably not buy it.  The Horror angle is probably my least favorite thing in Shadowrun.

See, it is the horror aspect, and all the rest of the magical elements, that separates Shadowrun from other Cyberpunk settings.

[ChromeZephyr]

I guess I disagree, there.  The dragons and magic and fantasy races mixed with the normal cyberpunk tropes separated it from the other cyberpunk games enough for me.  The Horrors were just cludging some Lovecraft onto it (well, that and getting people interested in Earthdawn, but that's another issue entirely) that to me was just dumb. 

I like my Cthulu, don't get me wrong, but this is more peanut-butter-and-dog-vomit than peanut-butter-and-chocolate for me.

[Mirikon]

It is a matter of depth, CZ. The depth of history when you talk about cycles of magic, and things that happened during the last cycle coming forward to affect this one adds a wealth to the setting that you just don't get in any other cyberpunk setting. Especially since it isn't slapped on like cheap DLC, but is woven into the backstory. You can't understand the politics of the Dragons and Immortal Elves unless you know about the Enemy that they both fear. You cannot understand why Dunkelzhan feels it is so important to put a bounty on blood mages in his will unless you know that blood magic can bring the Enemy here quicker. It is part and parcel of magic's influence that there are magical threats out there. To me, it is the difference between flatscreen and simsense.

To put it another way, let's look at something solely within the fantasy genre. The Hobbit is an enjoyable read, and there are some hints at the world beyond the story there, but all in all it is a fairly generic fantasy setting. Then you have the Lord of the Rings, and the Silmarillion, and all the other stories written in that universe, which take that fantasy setting, and turn it into an epic world. This is the difference that adding history, and epic threats beyond the ken of mere mortals, brings to the game.

[Crimsondude]

If I had my way, the Fourth World, the period 5,000 to 10,000 years before now, would certainly not look like medieval Europe.

[RHat]

If I had my way, the Fourth World, the period 5,000 to 10,000 years before now, would certainly not look like medieval Europe.

It certainly SHOULDN'T, seeing as it's a few thousand years early for that...

As for the Horror angle, it's entirely possible to bring in a new notion for what the Enemy is if the connection to Earthdawn is being severed.

[ChromeZephyr]

You can have depth, politics, and all the other things you mentioned without needing the Eldritch Abominations That Will Consume Us All that the Horrors were.  I'm not adverse to a backstory, Mirikon.  I'm adverse to the way that FASA did it.  To me, the Invae as the Enemy Without and Toxics and Blood Magic as the Enemy Within were enough.

[RHat]

You can have depth, politics, and all the other things you mentioned without needing the Eldritch Abominations That Will Consume Us All that the Horrors were.  I'm not adverse to a backstory, Mirikon.  I'm adverse to the way that FASA did it.  To me, the Invae as the Enemy Without and Toxics and Blood Magic as the Enemy Within were enough.

That does still leave the Enemy from the Harlequin modules - and they're relevant to a few other events.  Which means that excising them isn't tenable.  However, replacing them would certainly work (and depending on who the properties are defined, might be required).

[Crimsondude]

We can finally have the elven holocaust!

[Bull]

We can finally have the elven holocaust!

YOu just want to see Critias weep and hear his raspy sobs, don't you?

Or are we talking about a Holocaust caused by Elves?

[CanRay]

How about a Ghoulpocalypse?

[ChromeZephyr]

That does still leave the Enemy from the Harlequin modules - and they're relevant to a few other events.  Which means that excising them isn't tenable.  However, replacing them would certainly work (and depending on who the properties are defined, might be required).

Or it's just an enemy...of Ol' Painty Face, and he's getting suckers brave shadowrunners to take care of his light work, or at least distract his enemies so he can take them from another angle.  I dunno, it's been a long time since I've taken the Harley adventures off my shelf and read them.