[Glyph]

I think challenging a character is something a GM should always do with careful consideration.  It's good to look at a character's vulnerabilities to find ways to bring some tension and drama into the game - although the GM should also make sure to highlight the character's strengths.  Have the big tank get bamboozled by a fast talker, or knocked out by neurostun, or blasted with a manabolt; but let him soak up some small arms fire and knock out security guards with a single swat from his bear-like hands, too.

But don't abuse your authority to create blatantly no-win situations.  There are plenty of logical consequences and simple tactics that can take out a character - a sniper from a rooftop after he insults an underworld figure, a girl who drugs his drink, a vent that dumps knockout gas into a sealed room after they trip an alarm, cops hauling him off after his fake SIN doesn't check out, leading to him being armless and legless in priso, and so on.  But doing things like that will erode the trust between players and GM and make the game less fun.  It sounds like the OOC situation is that you are stuck with one player you don't like, in order to game at all.  Just make the best of it, and try not to let this dislike poison your role as GM.

[JoeNapalm]

Always give them a warning and a way out. Never just kill a PC.

"But Joe!" I hear you say, "Don't you always tell us that killing off a PC now and then is good for the game?"

Yes. And if you did so early on, you'd have way less problems with your troublesome player.

I guarantee that your problem player has screwed up at some point, got over-confident, and you let them off the hook.

Once they know you won't let the dice fall where they may, you're in big trouble as a GM. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place to fudge a die roll...the dice are, at best, a tool - and a good GM knows when to use them as a prop.

But this guy, you don't want to save, just lay it out. Tell him not to push the big red button. Not to sleep with the Vory Boss' daughter. Not to talk about the world-renowned Elven assassin's lisp.

Then let the dice fall.

It's not personal, it is business. Dangerous business.

Even if he lives, he might see that he can't fly on his own.

Then, when he tries to mini-max his next character into twice the problem, be involved in the process. You can certainly max a character hard in SR, but the mini is there, too. Built right in. Work with him to make a character you can both be happy with.

-Jn-
Ifriti  Sophist

[ZeConster]

If your response to someone giving a detailed description of a minmaxing player with a bad personality and even calling them "a power playing asshole who's inconsiderate to the effort I put into the campaigns" is "get off your danged high horse" and blindly believing the player must be an innocent victim in the matter, you have serious issues.

It's called Devil's Advocate, and someone has to do it. Basically, he does need to get the player in question to make an account and come here to give his side of the story so that we can get the full truth. (It would take hearing both sides since I'm certain both would "spin" things to make themselves look better.) I'm just not going to accept that the player is automatically 100% in the wrong--especially when the GM is asking for advice on how to screw the guy over.

There's a line between devil's advocate (taking a position you don't necessarily agree with for the sake of debate) and outright insulting and attacking someone, and you went so far beyond that line that the Devil's Advocate's Satellite Link won't reach you.

[Michael Chandra]

As much as I agree with you that I don't buy the explanation as sufficient for the hostile tone used, it's best to leave the hostility to one side of the argument, bro. Best to let it rest, the admins already had to lock two topics recently due to escalation.

[Mirikon]

Indeed. While A4BG has definitely been channeling radicals like Ecotope or Aufheben lately, there's no reason to escalate things on your side. Best to just let it rest, or if you think he's gone too far, report the post. And yes, I know this is a pot/kettle situation with me saying this, but oh well.

[RHat]

To be clear, what's being described is definitely an out-of-game issue.  As such, it can ONLY be solved out of game.  Trying to do things to mess with the player in game, regardless of anyone's opinion on whether or not it's justified, simply cannot work - it will only worsen the problem.

What needs to happen, pure and simple, is that you need to sit down with this player and actually have a conversation about what it is you have an issue with and why; make it absolutely clear that he is not "helping" you, but hurting your enjoyment of the game.

[GiraffeShaman]

To be clear, what's being described is definitely an out-of-game issue.  As such, it can ONLY be solved out of game.  Trying to do things to mess with the player in game, regardless of anyone's opinion on whether or not it's justified, simply cannot work - it will only worsen the problem.

Agreed. And if for some reason you don't want to confront this player in this manner, which is the healthiest way to handle it, you may instead try to cater to this player's tendencies. I'd normally suggest you not play with anyone you would call an ahole, but you seem stuck with him. Best to make the best of it.

This type of player would be ejected by my players in my group without me having to lift a finger. Regardless of the situation, that your group is tolerating him speaks volumes. Your players have found qualities in this person they value enough to keep at the game table. Try to exploit those qualities to have fun. If he's arrogant, maybe he's also entertaining? Maybe not to you, but to your other players.

[Mystalya]

Concealed mage with Control Thoughts. Or fear. A well placed sniper blowing some edge...You could honestly Plot Device 3000 a situation where he has to go Mano-a-Mano with another big bad who's insulting his character's pride, etc.

What are his negative qualities? There has to be something in there to make him try assuming he's not running around with Incompetent: Pilot Aerospace. From what you've described he sounds like a power gamer that's ever had to put effort into creating an NPC and I can sympathize with that, especially if he's making a big braggy show about it. He's essentially asking for it.

I wouldn't TPK but I'd probably set him up in a position where he has to contemplate handing over his character sheet though. I find players like that exceedingly miserable to play with. Not just for the GM but for the other players. Just my 2 cents.

[summers307]

UPDATE:

I've confronted him in-game. He honestly didn't realize how I felt towards it, and also didn't think through his line about him being the reason why the campaigns worked. I got an apology and he's aware about those mannerisms. We've moved passed that and for me at least it makes me like the table session much better.

I snapped, and anyone can agree that sometimes things seem overwhelming or the world seems to be against you. I have resolved my problem and I will take it from here.

Two things to point out: First is I used this player as an example for the law getting involved with cyberware, but this was an implication for the entire group. He's merely the most chromed out member in the party so it came naturally to mention him. I guess in the future I'll just say "the party".

 Second, the OP (me) wanted to know LEGAL standpoints of owning cyberware without adequate licenses, and how other GM's would deal with legal ramifications of a cop seeing a perp with something he shouldn't own. This post has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic.

[GiraffeShaman]

Second, the OP (me) wanted to know LEGAL standpoints of owning cyberware without adequate licenses, and how other GM's would deal with legal ramifications of a cop seeing a perp with something he shouldn't own. This post has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic.y

Well to sum it up, the penalties are downright vicious. However, they are reliant on things like the police officer's perception, knowledge of police procedures, and concealability of the item. There's actual charts in some of the older books, but you don't really need them. Just make an estimate of what you think the penalty should be, with the understanding that the sentences on the books are pretty harsh.

The system is extremely corrupt and favors the rich. You can use this as a way to avoid destroying player characters and runner teams, while still enforcing some penalties. So instead of going to prison 5 years, they instead pay a bribe, pay a lawyer, or pay a bribe to a lawyer to get out or get a reduced sentence. Faces and such are often better at this. (In fact I had a character of my own that was a lawyer Face)

Another option is to have some well connected person or contact bail them out, with the understanding they now owe them a favor.

In general, the more dangerous the item is, and the closer you brought that item to some rich person, the more forcefully the system will respond.

[Michael Chandra]

The only real indication I know of is the numbers listed in Sprawl Site from First Edition. In this all but military armor, ammunition and cyberware have multiple categories (possession, transport, threat, use, intent) which come with rising penalties and eventually start using jailtime.

Now some of these have clearly changed, but for example Military Armor was 1.2k, Ammo 3k, body-mod cyberware 20k and cyberweapons 10 years in prison. Meanwhile, a pistol in a box was 0.5k, on you 1.5k* and visible is 5k. An automatic was 5k/10k/6months. So it carries a steep fine to have one with you, but if you walk around town with one visible, you're screwed. Just like owning Cyberware without a license only the slums and barrens do not immediately result in police action if you walk around with an AK hanging from your shoulder.

If something's not punishable by jailtime, I'd expect cops to allow a bribe, which depends on the neighborhood, the amount of shocked witnesses and other ruckus, and the official fine. So e.g. being caught with Cyberware without a permit in a low neighborhood would be, what, 20% if they don't think you intend to beat the hell out of someone with it? Add to that that the fines probably lowered as nuyen levels changed, as well as cyberware becoming more and more common, and I'd expect a 2k fine or so.

Minor note: Using any kind of weapon can already result in jailtime. Using it ON somebody will end you up with jailtime unless it's a blade/club/bow, then you MIGHT end up with just a fine.

If you want I can quote the tables, so you can use them as inspiration. Just tone down the nuyen levels a bit, keep in mind jailtime can be parole after ~30% with another 20% as your on-parole time, and tune down the levels quite a bit for some cyberware categories as they have become more common. Also, anyone dumb enough NOT to get a fake license for that cyberweapon deserves those 10 years, 3 years and 2 years parole if on good behavior.

*: I demand Concealed Carry licenses from players on top of their licenses for the individual Restricted weapons. On top of that there's Smartlink Arms Licenses for usage of additional smartguns and smartlinks, Stun Arms for melee weapons that cause stun damage, a license for using any type of gas grenades with restricted toxins, a Bounty Hunter and Private Security license exist, etc. It's up to the GM to determine what kind of additional licenses there are, though. Do you want 1 license per stun baton, or just 1 license for all stunbatons/shockgloves? Do you want a license for concealed carrying or is that part of the weapon license? Etc.

[JoeNapalm]

Didn't 1e ShadowTech have a whole section of the legal system, crime and punishment?

I boxed up my older editions. I'll have to see if I can't dig that out.

...

Anyone got a backhoe I can borrow?


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Michael Chandra]

I got my stuff from 1e Sprawl Sites. Let me check if I got ShadowTech... Ayup, signed by Tom Dowd in '93. Let me check.

Edit: It has basically the same as Sprawl Sites but with much more stuff in it, such as Bioware categories and more, a list of Criminal Charges with their sentences, a section on Jurisdiction and even the difference between Seattle and UCAS fines and punishments.

[JoeNapalm]

Now, if someone could just explain how I can remember that, from twenty years ago...

...but I can't find last month's cable bill.

 


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[summers307]

Simple, you remember stuff that's important.