[mtfeeney = Baron]

The mod would have to be replaced with a mod, right?  Not the accessory?

[Michael Chandra]

Not really. You remove the mod, then put on an accessory since without internal gasvent ready you're allowed to add an external one. Part of why I find it iffy.

[Mantis]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying but I've never found that too unbalancing. It is also the RAW for the gas vents so I guess play testing didn't find it so either (Don't tell me they didn't play test this. You'd shatter all my illusions  ) I find it difficult to get enough recoil comp on most weapons even doing it this way.

Now for the the question of balance on mini-guns. I think it would be fair. First, the mod requires 2 mod slots so is kind of expensive. Removing the gas vent system from the Ares-MP would not give you any slots back but I guess you could stick a gas vent accessory on it. It also requires a facility to install the high velocity mod and is a 30 threshold to achieve. Now, I'm not sure about the RAW on this, but we rule that those tool sizes are the minimum so you need a facility. A 30 threshold, especially with decreasing dice pool rule in effect is very hard to hit. Even without it, it will take quite some time to achieve. So once you are done you have an Ares MP LMG that fires 15 rounds and may or may not have a gas-vent 3 on it but you will have also used up 2 of your 6 mod slots. It will have cost you an additional 3000¥ as well. So 1500 for the gun, 3000 for the mod and 400 for the gas vent (or 2400 if you think it gets 6 barrels as part of the mod and each barrel needs the vent) and 100,000 for the facility to install it.
If you opted for the Vindicator, you can install the gas vent 3 as an accessory and still have all 6 of your mod slots for other mods. It will cost you just the 5500 for the gun and the 400 (or maybe 400 x 6 barrels depending on your GM) to have done so.
This makes the Ares cheaper in nuyen for the weapon but you still have to get the tools and you are down 2 mod slots over the vindicator. I'd opt for the vindicator at this point as mod slots are more valuable than money, or at least harder to come by.
And we haven't even touched the best damn LMG in the game yet. The Ingram White Knight with its weird gas vent 5 system and a price tag just 500 above the Ares MP-LMG, there really is no reason to look at any other LMG. Where else can you get an inherent 5(6 with stock) recoil in a weapon?

[Aryeonos]

Not sure if it's relavant anymore, but I think a good visual on the difference between the accessory version and the modification version would be treating the accessory as a recoil compensator, or muzzle brake, and the mod as an actual vent.

Gas Vent (Mod)


Gas Vent (Accessory)


This one is probably a better example of a thermal suppressor, but it also heavily reduces felt recoil.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Surprised you didn't use the classic gas vent mod - that which is on the Barret .50 BMG.

[Aryeonos]

Because I don't like barrets, the PGM however, I do. Anyway I couldn't off the bat find a picture of a match compensator, which is more along the lines of what the accessory is.

[Mantis]

Not sure if you can take those muzzle brakes off those rifles but if so, then your picture of the pistol is more how the accessory works in game while the brakes are more how the mod works. So ass backwards I think, though I suppose you could swap out the barrel easily enough for the pistol. Thanks for the cool pics though, especially the pistol.

[Aryeonos]

What? If it's a modification it's internal. And on the PGM I know you can un bolt the muzzle brake, which would make it an, albeit essential, accessory. Using logic we can know it works this way, even if the books say it's in reverse...

[Mantis]

Yeah that's what I meant (and thought I said). The real world shows these things working one way while the game rules flips that around (well except for the internal part on the gas vent mod. They got that right).

[Aryeonos]

I must have glossed over/auto corrected the flipping of the two when I read them.

[Vass654]

Rule of cool. Build a LMG as a minigun. Build 5 of them. Stick them on 5 drones that you have waiting on the egress route. Use them to either A) Scare the crap out of the SecTeam following you, or B) Turn them into a pink mist.

I think you should get some kind of Intimidation or Negotiation bonus if your side has actively spinning miniguns aimed in the general direction of who you are talking to...

[Mantis]

Uh you do. +2 for wielding a weapon. See pg 131 SR4A. Of course you get the same bonus for shoving a pistol in their face too and it won't cost nearly as much.

[Aryeonos]

Maybe we should run the rule on a 'per barrel basis'?

[Vass654]

Only +2? Maybe I'm used to D20 where +2 is not that wonderful, unless you have a lot of them, but it really seems like several actively spinning miniguns aimed at you shouldn't have the same bonus as a normal pistol to the face, unless that pistol had a bore you could stuff your fist in without touching sides.

[Mantis]

+2 in D&D is a 10% bonus. A +2 dice bonus, well I don't know the math but better than a 10% increase in your odds. 3 extra dice on average works out to 1 more hit. So yeah, it is worth more. But are you really negotiating with multiple miniguns spun up? Rational people will just agree with whatever you want and then do something about it after you turn the things off. As a GM I wouldn't call for a dice test in that situation unless the people you have them aimed at know something you don't know that will protect them.