[Ninja137]

Would houseruling a bow back to the 12R cap mess the game up too bad, or maybe 10R?

[Mantis]

Let me guess, you want a troll bow at max power for a starting character? Honestly these things are so cheap why not just buy it when the game starts?

[Ninja137]

Let me guess, you want a troll bow at max power for a starting character? Honestly these things are so cheap why not just buy it when the game starts?

Did I say I was attempting to start with it? No? Then why are you instantly being hostile like that?

All I asked was whether or not it sounded like undoing the errata that caps Bows at a 8, and moving it back up to either 12 or 10, seemed like it'd be decent.

[Mantis]

Would it mess up the game? Probably not in the long term. In the short term you are turning something that you would need the restricted gear quality to get into something you can get without it. So is that fair to others who may want a different piece of gear that is above the 12 availability for a starting character? Not really.
Really you ask a question about a weapon known to be a problem with high strength characters (trolls in particular) so you'll forgive me if I wonder if you have the worst intentions about asking. Honestly, the only place adjusting the availability like this will matter is during character creation. Thus my assumption. Why don't you provide your reasoning for wanting to do so.

[Ninja137]

Would it mess up the game? Probably not in the long term. In the short term you are turning something that you would need the restricted gear quality to get into something you can get without it. So is that fair to others who may want a different piece of gear that is above the 12 availability for a starting character? Not really.
Really you ask a question about a weapon known to be a problem with high strength characters (trolls in particular) so you'll forgive me if I wonder if you have the worst intentions about asking. Honestly, the only place adjusting the availability like this will matter is during character creation. Thus my assumption. Why don't you provide your reasoning for wanting to do so.

....You do know that a Bow, regardless of rating, is Availability 2, right? There is not, and never has been as far as I am aware, a requirement to take Restricted Gear.

Also, how is it known to be a problem? In order to do damage on par with a gun user, at lower ranges mind you, you need to invest heavily in it. You need martial arts, Quick Draw, a high rating bow you can't even start with because you can't start with anything over Rating 6 at character creation, not to mention the fact that you're carrying around a bow that is likely almost as tall as you are.

Meanwhile, the Street Sam grabs an AR and uses FA to pump out easily comparable damage, has other ammo types, higher range, doesn't require nearly as many abilities to pull it off, and has a weapon which is easier to conceal.

I'm not adjusting the Availability, and I never SAID anything about the availability. When I said 12R, I mean 12 Rating cap instead of the post-errata 8 Rating cap. Or as an alternative, removing the cap on the hits you can achieve so that a bow can actually do damage, or some other change to actually make a bow a usable weapon to have as a focus. The entire reason I bring this up at all is because I'm currently in a party of characters with a rather low overall amount of combat ability, and I don't just want to sit there with a gun. It feels boring, after so many other characters like it. A woodsman type character that uses a bow, has tracking and outdoors skills, and other flavor stuff seemed like it'd be fun. But as is, the bow is inferior to a gun to the extent that there really isn't any point in taking it, especially as a parties primary combatant.

[dertechie]

Yeah, common notation for Rating 12 is R12, not 12R, which almost always means Availability 12, Resitricted Legality.

No idea what it breaks, besides making people look at it funny when they realize a bow is doing base damage on par with an Assault Cannon at 10P+.  Bows are weird in that they are STR+2, rather than STR/2+X like every other damage in the game that scales with STR.

[Ninja137]

Yeah, common notation for Rating 12 is R12, not 12R, which almost always means Availability 12, Resitricted Legality.

No idea what it breaks, besides making people look at it funny when they realize a bow is doing base damage on par with an Assault Cannon at 10P+.  Bows are weird in that they are STR+2, rather than STR/2+X like every other damage in the game that scales with STR.

Bows are also a bit better at transfering energy than throwing something/hitting something. If they weren't, why would people use them over just throwing stuff?

EDIT: The bow also has less range, doesn't share the same skill as an Assault Cannon and therefore doesn't give access to things like LMGs, grenade launchers, rockets, or other toys like it. It also lacks any form of -AP, especially compared to the Thunderstruck, which gets -1/2 AP before anything else.

[Michael Chandra]

If you want to do nasty damage with a bow, it's better to ask your GM to allow for you to get Mercy software. Combine that with a Martial/Adept Quick Draw, the Smartgun required, and an Improved Laser Range Finder, and suddenly you're capable of inflicting 26P once every 2 IPs and a mere 13P in the other IP.

(Explosive arrows are still +1 DV each right?)

[Mantis]

My misunderstanding as the notation you used was for availability. How am I supposed to know you mean damage if you are using a different notation? Also, if you look in SR4A, you will see that bows have an availability of 2 times the rating of the bow, rather than a flat 2 as you posted. So to get even a rating 7 or 8 bow would indeed require the restricted gear quality at character creation.
If want to uncap the damage go for it. It isn't likely to do much more than start an arms race though I will point out that comparing bows, which are resisted by the lower (and many times much lower) impact armour, with guns isn't really worth while. They each have a purpose.
In the future try asking your question in such a manner that it is easy to understand what you are actually asking. It avoids these sort of situations.

[Michael Chandra]

Keep in mind he's asking from a player perspective, not a GM perspective. With that in mind, I think he's better off with the Mercy software and a quickdraw ability. Then you have Fire, nock arrow as free, Fire for 1 IP, and the second IP is nock as Free, Fire, nock as Simple, hence 26P and 13P. It gives you a much better damage while keeping the Rating-8 restriction, and helps with a more balanced character because you're not boosting your Strength to 12.

[Mantis]

Heh. Balanced? While doing 26P and 13P with a bow? Well OK. And yeah I get that it is 3 shots to achieve that damage but still... It is completely silent and resisted by the lower impact armour value. Not sure I would call it balanced but I suppose that is more balanced than going with a rating 12 bow. Whatever gets the job done I suppose.

[Michael Chandra]

I mean the character will be more balanced if he has 8 Strength rather than 12, attribute-wise. ^_^

[Ninja137]

My misunderstanding as the notation you used was for availability. How am I supposed to know you mean damage if you are using a different notation? Also, if you look in SR4A, you will see that bows have an availability of 2 times the rating of the bow, rather than a flat 2 as you posted. So to get even a rating 7 or 8 bow would indeed require the restricted gear quality at character creation.
If want to uncap the damage go for it. It isn't likely to do much more than start an arms race though I will point out that comparing bows, which are resisted by the lower (and many times much lower) impact armour, with guns isn't really worth while. They each have a purpose.
In the future try asking your question in such a manner that it is easy to understand what you are actually asking. It avoids these sort of situations.

You cannot, even with Restricted Gear, get a rating 7+ bow, or anything else at all, at character creation. And incredibly enough, no they actually don't.

Collapsible Bow (STR Min. + 1)P — 4R Rating x 125¥
Bow (STR Min +2)P — 2 Rating x 100¥
The Errata doesn't change that anywhere. Neither bow has an availability of Rating x2, not that it matters because there is a hardcap on the max rating of gear purchased at character creation.

All gear is subject to gamemaster approval—just because you can
purchase something doesn’t mean you should be allowed to get it at
the start of the game. Finally, no piece of gear purchased at character
creation can have a rating higher than 6 or an Availability higher than
12 (for more information, see Availability & Buying Gear, p. 312).

I also can't seem to find where it actually says what armor that Bows/Other Projectile Weapons are resisted with Impact, meanwhile I have found the table on page 151 SR4AA which says this:
Ballistic Projectiles
Bow 0–STR To STR x 10 To STR x 30 To STR x 60
Light Crossbow 0–6 7–24 25–60 61–120
Medium Crossbow 0–9 10–36 37–90 91–150
Heavy Crossbow 0–15 16–45 46–120 121–180

[Ninja137]

Keep in mind he's asking from a player perspective, not a GM perspective. With that in mind, I think he's better off with the Mercy software and a quickdraw ability. Then you have Fire, nock arrow as free, Fire for 1 IP, and the second IP is nock as Free, Fire, nock as Simple, hence 26P and 13P. It gives you a much better damage while keeping the Rating-8 restriction, and helps with a more balanced character because you're not boosting your Strength to 12.

Krav Maga and Quick Draw/Iajitsu open up the potential for two attacks in a round, it's been gone over before here. It's still quite a bit more than needed for guns to get roughly comparable damage or worse damage, and guns lack the arbitrary cap on their damage.

[Michael Chandra]

Guns are guns, though, and a bow is rather exotic. With Mercy software you can really pack a punch with a bow, at a level that no firearm can. So if your GM allows it, all the more power to you. It's a heavy investment but it sure pays back. If the GM doesn't go for it, that's a shame but honestly, bows don't necessarily need to be able to kill just as badly as guns. Sometimes all you want is a legal weapon with which you can do 12P damage without the cops having any reason to ever pull you over and fine you.

Edit: According to HeroLab, bows go against Ballistic.