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The Bunker

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mtfeeney = Baron

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« Reply #15 on: <05-26-13/0244:17> »
Speaking of the drones, I'd like to see how you guys put them together.
« Last Edit: <05-26-13/0257:58> by mtfeeney = Baron »
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

Madwand

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« Reply #16 on: <05-26-13/0300:18> »
A rating 5 jammer in the basement? Incredible... that's far more notice-grabbing than anything else I can imagine doing to the place, especially as most jamming fields dissipate at 1 rating/10 meters. I think an immediate priority will be to surround the Bunker in faraday-cage mesh wiring. This will cut off the jamming field quite nicely I expect.

I'm not too worried about the dead spirits. I knew what could happen (though perhaps initiative should have been rolled after they manifested). Raven finally got the karma to get to 6 magic this session, so was going to summon new ones anyway and will be taking Stun only. He won't be too concerned about drain, only how many successes he gets on the binding test. Those rolls can happen next session.

For investigating the Bunker, I kind of need to be told what rolls to make. 13 dice in Magic Theory or 10 dice in Arcana might be suitable for determining what it is, but ultimately it's up to you. If you wanted to make an entire adventure out of it, a trip to the metaplanes with the whole group might be suitable (though I am sure they would want some assurance that doing so would not be instantly fatal).

The ward should probably be placed around Building C.

A system to intercept commcodes has to be limited in scope: you can't put an agent into every node in existence. Thus, if it exists, it must exist in the first mesh node that Pakka's call out would contact, a local cell tower or whatever. Raven would start by hacking that node (perhaps with Dataminers help, if he wants to get involved) and copy the agent, if it's there. Once the agent has been copied into local storage, it can be ripped apart until it's commands are discovered, i.e., which mesh signal is it really sending the call onto?

A Tachikoma is a small robot tank capable of carrying one person. This video demonstrates what they are capable of in part, but I really recommend you watch Ghost in the Shell: SAC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEUt4TjCwQ
Raven's version is smaller and has slightly different capabilities, but is really quite similar in functionality.

Raven's Tachikoma uses a Wuxing Hussar as a base, modified with a walker mode, chameleon coating, gecko tips, rigger cocoon, an enhanced sensor package, an F6 masking ward, and a few other minor mods. For weapons, I again tried to emulate GiTS, so it carries a GE vigilant light autocannon with an underbarrel ITS Gonryu. i.e., ridiculous firepower.
« Last Edit: <05-26-13/0305:17> by Madwand »

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« Reply #17 on: <05-26-13/0423:22> »
Not a rating 5 jammer, a magical field that has an ECM-like effect.

There was no initiative rolled because they took their action to manifest.

I need to know how you plan to investigate.  It's more than just a simple knowledge test, because this isn't something you or almost anyone else has any familiarity with, so a 13 dice magic theory test wouldn't give you anything from your memories.

You find no agent in any node you attempt hacking into, other than those that would be expected for normal functionality in said node.

You have a 32F combat drone?  That's awesome.  I don't see it saying anything about being able to carry a person, unless you mean someone riding on top of it.  There's no room for a rigger cocoon inside of this combat drone.  It's kind of a shame that you removed both the tank treads and the hover ability just to make it a walker.  You're using more mods than the drone can support.  Even without the rigger cocoon that doesn't fit, you've gone over the slot limit by 3.  It has 4 slots, you used 1 for improved sensor array, 1 for chameleon coating, 2 for walker mode, 1 for gecko tips, and at least 2 for the weapon mount.  Which weapon mount did you add?  Reinforced external fixed remote control?  I'm glad to see it has 5 Signal, I was a bit embarassed that I didn't consider whether you could communicate with your drones yesterday.  I assume your commlink has signal 5+.  You'll need to drop some of the mods from the drone.  I'd suggest using a reinforced/external/flexible/remote weapon mount and keep the chameleon coating.  If you need to keep the walker mod, then the best mount you can use is a reinforced/external/fixed/remote like I mentioned.  That takes 2 slots, leaving 2 for walker mode and nothing else.  Why do you use the light autocannon instead of the heavy autocannon?  That underbarrel grenade launcher is badass.  You're not worried about the heat from the autocannon detonating your grenades?

You need to show your character to the group, as it's hard to see what a person can and can't do without it.  That's why everyone else has shared theirs.

Warding Building C is way beyond our capabilities.  The maximum area you can ward is your Magic attribute x 50 cubic meters.  The most a Magic 6 magician can do is 300 cu.m.   The first floor of building C is 1402.1 cu.m.  It would take 5 of us to ward 1 floor.  25 of us to ward all 5.  The building is 21.336 meters wide and deep, 15.24 meters tall(70 ft. x 70 ft. x 50 ft.).  Walker setting a spirit to patrol would be largely ineffective, unless he bought an inanimate vessel for the spirit to possess if it detected an intruder.
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

vinnmun

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« Reply #18 on: <05-26-13/0932:15> »
((Probably has a rigger cacoon hooked up to it. Also to make a network for the old people top use, it will cast well over 100k and it will be a big cluster. I can make 3 nexi at 51.5k each. That's response 4, system 4, firewall 6, signal 7, persona and processor is at 50 each. That is before we put in any agents and Ic))
« Last Edit: <05-26-13/1041:08> by vinnmun »
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mtfeeney = Baron

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« Reply #19 on: <05-26-13/1110:28> »
That's a hefty chunk of cash to sink into this.  Do you plan to go with the geosynch satlink and suck up the halved response, or just put a repeater with 5+ signal outside of the magic field?

Hooking up a rigger cocoon externally to make a combat drone into a passenger vehicle would definitely be up to gm approval, along with possibly requiring special considerations of circumstances.  The drone would be somewhere between the size of a motorcycle and a small car initially, and then you're talking about adding a contained seating compartment on top of it.  Speed and maneuverability would definitely be affected, as would the space required for it to squeeze into a place.  It wouldn't fit in most buildings, and it certainly wouldn't be able to go down a stairwell.
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vinnmun

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« Reply #20 on: <05-26-13/1243:38> »
((Signal is not going to cut the cost. It is how many personas interacting with the nexi and processing limit. Processing limit I will have to look a bit deeper in))
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Madwand

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« Reply #21 on: <05-26-13/1319:11> »
Wow, that's quite a lot of questions. I'll try to answer as many as I can. Strangely enough, I've already considered the answer to most of them.

I'm aware that the spirits need an action to materialize. In combat, this may make them vulnerable for an instant. Out of combat, though, it might still be possible for a suddenly-manifesting spirit to surprise you. Thus, an initiative roll. It's a GMs call, though. What I should have done is asked for things to remain in combat time, then had the spirits manifest on their third action phase. Then, again, it would have been down to pre-rolled initiative values on the next Action Turn. I didn't think I'd need to do this, though, due to my first point, above. As I mentioned though, it doesn't matter. I didn't actually care.

A magical jammer may still be inhibited by a Faraday cage or wifi-inhibiting paint.

Note that a rating 5 jammer would also have normally cut off communication between Raven, the group, and the drones. Only Raven himself has a R6 signal. This problem would have been rapidly solved, however, as Raven distributes R6 ECCM (optimized) to the group, and the drones start up their own copy. If for whatever reason a Faraday cage doesn't work, this same strategy can be used to overcome the magic ECM, by distributing pirated copies of this software to anyone who needs it, and running a copy on the satellite dishes.

You are asking someone with no actual knowledge of how to investigate magic how he's going to investigate magic. I can't do that. Raven is the expert, only he knows how to do something like that. All I can do is tell you some of the options. Magic Theory should help, as it is more than just a list of "these are the kinds of things you know magic can do". Rather, it is a fundamental (and genius-level) understanding of the fundamentals of how magic works. Beyond, that, it's up to you. What does raven think it is necessary to do? I'm not going to pixelbitch here. I've already named one particularly dramatic way of finding out, a groupwide metaplanar quest. It's up to you, though.

It sounds like this "commcode" is magic. I don't have any ability to deal with that, there just aren't any rules in Shadowrun or the real world to explain how something like that could possibly work.

The rigger cocoon is attached to the rear of the drone, exactly as you see in the Tachikoma (please do watch the linked video if you are not already familiar with GitS).

The tracked and hover modes have not been removed, they are in fact the primary mode of locomotion. Legs fold down for use only when needed.

I am aware that I am overmodding the drone, by exactly 2 slots. I have paid the standard double cost for those two slots. I have not sought GM permission because 1) We have 3 and climbing GMs, and it's already a cluster****. 2) We're already playing ridiculously fast and loose with rules, with binding F12 sprits when the rules specifically mention that spirits use Edge to resist summoning and binding when they are much more powerful than the summoner (p. 95, Street Magic) and 3) If someone else gets a ridiculous toy, I am too. However, feel free to ban the drone when you are GMing. It's not needed when Walker isn't in the group anyway.

I did not take "Improved sensor array" mod. I just paid to upgrade the existing sensors to R6 plus extra goodies. The Hussar also already comes with a reinforced turret mount.

I do not use the heavy autocannon because a gun that big would be larger than the entire drone: it's a main tank cannon.

I'm no more worried about heat from the gun affecting the grenade launcher than I would be worried about the heat from the gun on an Ares Alpha detonating the grenades in the underbarrel clip.

I'll stick with just warding Raven's apartment, in that case. I may later also ward the Bunker, but not yet.
« Last Edit: <05-26-13/1328:51> by Madwand »

mtfeeney = Baron

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« Reply #22 on: <05-26-13/2012:06> »
@Vinn: I wasn't referring to the price.  I was talking about the response halving effect of using a geosynchronous satellite with a satellite link.

@Mad: Yeah, I realized afterward that it would've caused a lot more trouble than I actually enforced during the session.  It should've disconnected most of you from each other, unless you're all running signal 5 commlinks.  Like I told  Bookworm, ECCM doesn't counter the effect, so that isn't going to work as a solution here and wouldn't have helped during the game.  I'm just glad that you guys benefited from my being unprepared rather than got screwed because of it.

A faraday cage or wifi-inhibiting paint may work.  Who knows?  It's an unknown phenomenon, so your guess is as good as anyone else's. 

I wasn't asking you to be an expert on magical theory.  I was asking for a general idea of how you might go about it.  That's why I suggested roleplaying it instead of just going for a boring dice roll to come up with answers, but it's fine to do it that way too.  Go ahead and give me a magical theory roll on invisiblecastle.  I'll tell you what Raven's training on magical theory tells him.

The commcode isn't magic, but it makes sense that it would seem way.  Things not understood often seem like magic.  It fully follows the rules of Shadowrun, but honestly?  Even if it didn't, I'd probably still do it this way.  As with the 'magical ECM field', it's just me coming up with a good story.

Walker mode either removes all other modes of transportation or mods them.  You could say the tracks have been separated into semi-leg like sections, if you want.  Rigger cocoons were not designed to add an external seat to non-personnel carrying drones, and drones aren't designed to have their balance shifted by an additional weight on the back.

Overmodding a drone isn't a given, it's up to gm approval.  I'll talk to Reiper and Henzington about if they want to ok this, but I'm disinclined to turn drones into passenger vehicles.  Did you consider using a car as the base vehicle?  It would give you a lot more mod slots, along with being a lot closer in size to the thing in the video.

I didn't notice that the heavy autocannon was that big.  Thanks for pointing it out.  That's also where the comment about heat came from, since it mentions heat in the heavy autocannon entry.

For the ward, don't worry about rolling.  As long as you keep it down to F6, we'll just say you renew the barrier whenever it nears the end of its duration.  Raven now has a warded apartment.

Ok, now here's the problem.  We're about 1 step away from me asking you politely to leave the group.  You know what I'm talking about. 
1) We have 3 and climbing GMs, and it's already a cluster****.
2) We're already playing ridiculously fast and loose with rules, with binding F12 sprits when the rules specifically mention that spirits use Edge to resist summoning and binding when they are much more powerful than the summoner (p. 95, Street Magic) and
3) If someone else gets a ridiculous toy, I am too. However, feel free to ban the drone when you are GMing. It's not needed when Walker isn't in the group anyway.
The snide remarks, the attacks, they all need to stop.  I'm not just talking about your posts on this site.  I mean the comments during the game, too.  It's time to behave like an adult.
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

Madwand

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« Reply #23 on: <05-27-13/0131:39> »
Ah, I missed the "ECCM doesn't help" comment. Well, that makes things a problem. If the Faraday cage or wifi paint doesn't help (something that is easy to test) then it means Raven won't be spending much time there. A mesh-dead area just isn't useful for anything but brief visits.

I'd love to roleplay investigating the Bunker, but I honestly don't know how. "Raven sits and stares at the thing for hours. He thinks REALLY hard back to those days when he self-educated himself on the secrets of magic...". I don't know what to say. It feels to me you are looking for something specific, and I'd read your mind to find out what it was if I could, but sadly that is beyond my abilities. All I know how to do right now is roll some dice. That will have to wait, though, unless figuring the Bunker out is an extended test, in which case it's a matter of figuring out how many successes are needed, multiplying by 4, and dividing by 13 (plus whatever Teamwork bonus Pakka can provide).

That's interesting about Walker mode removing existing movement modes. I didn't interpret it that way when I first read it, but I can see how you could, pretty easily. I suggest that the tracks are replaced with a legs+smartwheel system, but the air cushion stays, as a separately added mod.

An alternate frame for the vehicle is a motorcycle (mobility is an absolute requirement), but I prefer the drone frame. It just makes more sense to me. I have no problem imagining how it works, but then, I've watched all the GitS series.

I am no longer trying to get rid of your spirit. I get that no one else cares. That's cool. It does change the game, though. Now, it's all about survival. I'm trying to make sure Raven can survive in a game that has attacks that can threaten Walker. I don't want to be instantly splatted by all those attacks that can do 25+ damage I expect must eventually be coming. That's not really an achievable goal without a possessing F12 spirit, but at least a robot suit gets me closer.

mtfeeney = Baron

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« Reply #24 on: <05-27-13/0535:37> »
Sorry, I wasn't trying to put you on the spot about the investigating.  I was just looking for general ideas like "I'd go down and assense, see if I can find where the source is" or "I go down and see if there are any arcane runes or whatnot".  I'm just waiting on a roll for you, and then I can do an overview of what you probably tried and discovered.  I will assume you're actively down there trying to figure it out, not just sitting in your new room racking your brain for a hint.

It's not an interpretation.  Walker mode says explicitly, "The transport mechanism of the drone or vehicle is completely swapped out for one that turns it into a walker, or at least provides it with multiple independent wheels or tracks so that it can handle most obstacles with the same ease as a human."  Having the treads replaced with wheeled legs is fine, but don't you think it's a bit cheesy to turn a tracked drone into a conveniently wheeled leg setup so you can stack smart tire handling bonus on top of the walker handling bonus?  There's no rule against this, so it's fine.  Walker+Smart tires puts your movement speed at 3/11.  It'll be painfully slow.

We need to come to a consensus about the size of this drone.  As the rules are woefully unhelpful about large drone sizes(anywhere from motorcycle size to small car size), it defaults to the drone's description.  This drone's description gives absolutely no hint as to its size, so as far as I'm concerned you can choose.  Do you want it to be the size of a motorcycle or a small car?  Keep in mind that if it's the size of a motorcycle, there's no way in hell you can have a rigger cocoon attached to it in any way shape or form.  If it's car sized, it won't be able to go inside buildings, down stairwells, etc., but you're probably fine with slapping a rigger cocoon on top of it.  I definitely wouldn't allow having the rigger cocoon somehow hanging from the back of the drone, as that isn't how the cocoon works.  It's an enclosed seat.

The only way I can see you getting a rigger cocoon in a small setup would be an actual motorcycle.  It's still not exactly right, but I could see just considering it an enclosure around the bike's seat.  The problem with this is that no bike can even come close to matching the specs of that drone.  4 body but 18 armor, DR5, comes with that amazing turret.  Anywho, it's your choice, lots of options, none of them perfect.  It's never been an issue of imagination.  It's an issue of bringing something into Shadowrun that doesn't fit the setting.  As for the tv series, I tried a few episodes and stopped.  It doesn't hold a candle to the manga or even the original movie.

I didn't realize you were ever trying to get rid of Walker's spirit.  How did you think you would do that?  Attack him or banish it or something?  This drone would probably be destroyed instantly if it was hit for 25+ damage.  With 4 body and 18 armor, you're rolling 22 dice.  That's an average of 7 hits, so you soak 18 damage.  If you edge it, you can resist an additional 5, so you're down to 13 damage.  That's a disabled drone.

Just a final note of caution: This is a large military combat drone.  It's 32F.  All Lone Star will hunt you down the second they find out you have it, which won't take long.  Same for KE and possibly even the UCAS military.  As far as they're concerned, you possess goods stolen from them.  That chameleon coating doesn't actually make it all that stealthy.  With concealment, it's a lot more feasible, but you're still only talking about a -10(assuming your F6 air spirits) to perception tests with a threshold of 1.  It won't be too hard for a security team to get that 1 hit.  Of course, then they have to somehow stop it... but that's a completely separate topic.  ;D
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

Reiper

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« Reply #25 on: <05-27-13/1913:52> »
Trioxin will probably take a bunk on one of the first floor. He's not going to be living there permanently because he has a high/high/high/high/high lifestyle already that he loves. So he loves his posh stuff.

I am going to end up making the following drone for security purposes for the bunker though. Although feel free to make some suggestions on the change.

------------------------------
Vehicle MCT Hachiman (Medium) System 8
Name  Firewall 6
Category Drones: Medium Response 4
Source TOD5 Signal 3
 
Body 4 Clearsight 
Armor 10 Defense 
Pilot 6 Electronic Warfare 
Sensor 2 Maneuver 
Sensor Signal 4 Targeting 4
Device Rating 2 Analyze 
Acceleration 2/5 Encrypt 
Speed 9 Scan 
Handling 0 Armor 
Vehicle Worth 81220 ECCM 
 Applicable Active Skills
 
MODS
Armor, Normal Rating 10
Chameleon Coating
Firewall 6
Obsolescent
Pilot Program Rating 6
Response 4
System 8
Walker Mode
Weapon Mount (Reinforced, External, Turret, Remote)
 GEAR
Medium Drone Sensor (Camera Rating 1, Directional Microphone, Microphone Rating 1, Thermometric, Ultrawideband Radar Rating 4) 
Targeting (LGM) Rating 4 (Copy Protection Rating 1, Registration) 
 ------
WEAPON DAMAGE AP MODE RC AMMO 
GE Vindicator Minigun 6P -1 FA 0 50(c) orbelt AR 29
Chameleon Coating
 -------

Going to take a while to build it, but it's going to be our little ED-209 for security.

I also have a rating 8 (or is it 6, I'll check when I get home) keypad maglock for our door, I'm assuming we can max maglock everything we have, including adding one for the bunker hold itself too.

Machine Gun on the roof might be good to keep too.

Also if Trioxin does start spending some time there, and after we have our security level of the apartment really high, how much is it going to cost to up the comforts some more, and buy the WellStocked and Ultra Modern qualities for our room. What can I say, he won't be able to stand living in squallor, especially now that he has bright electric blue hair.
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mtfeeney = Baron

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« Reply #26 on: <05-27-13/1955:42> »
That drone is a hot mess.  For starters, you spent 32k on upgrading the system to 8... but you left the response at 4?  This drops your system to 4.  Then you're running 10 programs, dropping the response down to 2.  You upgraded the stock armor from 8 to 10.  Is 2 points of armor worth halving your speed? If you're going to upgrade the armor, you might as well go all out with 12 armor, but is 4 armor worth it?  Is walker mode really that great in your eyes?  Because it also halves your speed.  Your drone moves at a whopping 2/5 as configured(compared to a human moving 10/25 or the stock drone moving at 5/15).  That signal 3 means it's unable to use wireless at the moment.  If they figure out a way around that, then it won't be an issue.  That system 8 is 32F and would take even trioxin 5+ weeks to locate.
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

Reiper

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« Reply #27 on: <05-27-13/2038:05> »
That drone is a hot mess.  For starters, you spent 32k on upgrading the system to 8... but you left the response at 4?  This drops your system to 4.  Then you're running 10 programs, dropping the response down to 2.  You upgraded the stock armor from 8 to 10.  Is 2 points of armor worth halving your speed? If you're going to upgrade the armor, you might as well go all out with 12 armor, but is 4 armor worth it?  Is walker mode really that great in your eyes?  Because it also halves your speed.  Your drone moves at a whopping 2/5 as configured(compared to a human moving 10/25 or the stock drone moving at 5/15).  That signal 3 means it's unable to use wireless at the moment.  If they figure out a way around that, then it won't be an issue.  That system 8 is 32F and would take even trioxin 5+ weeks to locate.

I still have a lot of tweaking to do on it, and I probably misclicked on a few ratings. And it was put together while I was doing about 10 tickets at work at once.

Speed isn't a major issue for me since its for internal security, and not using wireless is actually perfectly fine for me keeping it on autopilot as a sentry. Will rebuild it probably Friday when I have time to sit down and figure out all of the fine details.
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Bookworm

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« Reply #28 on: <05-27-13/2103:05> »
While waiting for the crew to come in and finish the basic maintenance and such, and while working on beautifying the fountain Quark is gonna shoot a message to his friend/co-worker Dataminer.

"Hey Dataminer, don't know how in the know you are keeping yourself, knowing you you know everything, but just in case not, me and the rest of the group have found this nice area right outside of town and a few of us have taken a shine to it. I personally am running/funding a beautification/upgrade of the one complex we are in now. The information we have on the surrounding area is a bit limited though, I was wondering if you would be willing to look into what's going on with the surrounding area though, like starting with our little complex and going outward, you know little things like who owns what, who is actually using what, what has been abandoned, what has not, what gangs/groups control each area? I would be willing to compensate you for your time and effort (at a reasonable price of course), but I have some plans for this area, and as we have learned in the past, plans usually go over better when we know as much as we can about as much as we can. Think it over and hen shoot me a message, you know where to find me."

Q

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« Reply #29 on: <05-28-13/0036:27> »
Reiper: High speeds may not be a major issue, but a "running" speed of 5 means that a normal walking human is going twice as fast.  As in, it can't chase down people.  It can't even maintain firing range.  If they walk around a corner 20 meters away, it takes the drone 4 CT just to get there.  Meanwhile, that guy ran all the way around the building and starts firing on a surprised drone.

It would be very easy to add those maglocks to the doors physically, but don't maglocks require wifi to connect to a server that verifies the card?  I'm fuzzy on this, maybe it's not mandatory.  Or do you have the push button type?  Proximity cards would definitely not work here.

BW: It's been a few days, and the crew has done some good work.  The courtyard has been cleaned thoroughly, as have the buildings.  They have gone through all 4 buildings and made minor repairs wherever necessary.  One guy even offered up the name of a fellow that he believes could do something about the fountain, if you're interested.

Upgrading the neighborhood(everyone): I'll break it down section by section.
Comforts - You can easily purchase more/better furniture.  You'll have a problem with trying to maintain a CHN until you figure out something for the signal killing field.  You could solve this buy increasing the signal of all of your home drones and appliances and everything.
Entertainment - Nothing you do is going to bring more entertainment venues to the area.  On top of that, this actually reflects the entertainment level for the neighborhood, not for you personally.  We each have our own homes elsewhere.  The best you can do is what BW already did: make a rec room for the old folks.
Necessities - Short of tearing down the complex and the surrounding complexes, too, this isn't going to improve.  You have the space you have.  It is what it is.
Neighborhood - Similar to Necessities.  The only way this is going to improve is if you tear down the complex and the surrounding area, build it up nicer, then tear down the further area and keep expanding until you've reclaimed the whole district and rewritting its reputation.
Security - You would need to hire a security company to start covering your area, for starters.  It would take a lot to get this rating actually increased.
What is well stocked?  I see ultramodern in Safehouses.  It would cost a MONUMENTAL amount of nuyen to upgrade the electronics in these apartments from "non-existent/barely functional" to "bleeding edge of tech".  Your only real shot at getting this is to just individually purchase the components you want in your apartment.  You won't get the ultramodern lifestyle mod, but you'll have whatever devices you purchase at whatever their DR is.
Short of dropping millions to billions of nuyen, this place isn't going to suddenly become the Ritz. 
Remember, you don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, just kill the guy driving it.

 

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