[All4BigGuns]

At least it wouldn't be that hard to house rule that "one attack action" thing away...

[Novocrane]

What is the difference in SS and SA then?

Fire Long Burst or Semi-Auto Burst (complex action)

I dunno, chief. Think the latter part of that might be relevant?

The only thing I'm inclined to house rule is the standard glitch of Quick Draw; from a Simple Action to a Complex Action.

[Crunch]

At least it wouldn't be that hard to house rule that "one attack action" thing away...

I'll have to see how it plays. I sort of like it on first reading. My hope would be that it would encourage less "stand and shoot" combat, if it became irksome it could certainly be house ruled out.

[All4BigGuns]

At least it wouldn't be that hard to house rule that "one attack action" thing away...

I'll have to see how it plays. I sort of like it on first reading. My hope would be that it would encourage less "stand and shoot" combat, if it became irksome it could certainly be house ruled out.

With some groups "stand and shoot" is perfectly fine, and with some one needs to get behind cover and fire from there. It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

[Crunch]

At least it wouldn't be that hard to house rule that "one attack action" thing away...

I'll have to see how it plays. I sort of like it on first reading. My hope would be that it would encourage less "stand and shoot" combat, if it became irksome it could certainly be house ruled out.

With some groups "stand and shoot" is perfectly fine, and with some one needs to get behind cover and fire from there. It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

Meh, mechanical effectiveness influences play style in either direction. I suspect I will like this style better and if you don't you can house rule it. Neither choice is neutral. You have a tendency to make your opinion sound a lot like an absolute statement.

[All4BigGuns]

How in the bloody heck do you get a freaking "absolute statement" out of saying that people should be able to choose the play style they want without one or the other being edged out by a new rule?

[Crunch]

It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

Whichever rule they had adopted it would have impacted the way people play, the fact that you prefer the current style doesn't make it preferable. I suspect I'll like the way this plays better. Maybe its because my group plays a bunch of different systems with the same crew but you can totally see the way mechanics impact flow if you pay attention.

[Shinobi Killfist]

They don't have to, Aaron, but they appear to be the only ones capable of doing 2 attacks per Initiative Pass.

Also, just noticed something: Skill Group 5 at chargen. Wowzers.

Yah, that seems off to me.  I can fire once and get another simple action but I can't use it to fire again? What is the difference in SS and SA then?  And 2 spells is okay when 2 pistol shots isn't? Don't get me wrong without knowing the extra drain of reckelss and base drain of spell casting reckless casting might be kind of rare. But it seems weird I can throw 2 fireballs but not pull the trigger twice.

While the pic is good I am kind of disapointed with the adept in that it looks like none of the powers he has that are 4e powers have a different PP cost than 4e.  If that stays the same I'll be irritated that adept focuses are really a patch for the core problem of the damn powers costing too much.  Fix he core issure instead of narowing the style of adept into tatooed focus adicts.

As far as I can tell the only way to make multiple attacks in a single action phase is with the Multiple Attacks free action modifier which requires die splitting. The only thing that seems unclear is whether Quickdraw is an "attack action."

So lets see dimished pool size and splitting your pool against targets with 2 stat defense.  Yeah that seems like a totally valid tactic. It seems much less dynamic to me. 

[Shinobi Killfist]

It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

Whichever rule they had adopted it would have impacted the way people play, the fact that you prefer the current style doesn't make it preferable. I suspect I'll like the way this plays better. Maybe its because my group plays a bunch of different systems with the same crew but you can totally see the way mechanics impact flow if you pay attention.

I think his point is his preferred style leaves other options open, this style forces a particular style.  Forcing is generally seem as worse than influencing.

[All4BigGuns]

It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

Whichever rule they had adopted it would have impacted the way people play, the fact that you prefer the current style doesn't make it preferable. I suspect I'll like the way this plays better. Maybe its because my group plays a bunch of different systems with the same crew but you can totally see the way mechanics impact flow if you pay attention.

I think his point is his preferred style leaves other options open, this style forces a particular style.  Forcing is generally seem as worse than influencing.

The way that's more open to multiple play styles is preferable to me, yes.

What's really weird is that he is so busy trying to make me sound like an arse that he doesn't even realize that the "stand and shoot" he seems to hate so much would be more encouraged by the new way. Less attacks mean less chance of taking damage, which would lead to feeling "more ballsy" and standing out in the open rather than taking cover.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Honestly what are you doing with your other simple action. Lets say you grab cover in pass one and shoot with your other SA, pass 2 you already grabbed cover, what are you doing, aiming every turn I mean woo hoo for that and observe in detail, or do I actually have to keep using a SA to stay in cover because you know if I don't take an action I am just going to stand up out of that cover. 

Also why is quick draw a SA, yeah I get it included a shoot action but what if I just want to quick draw as part of an action unrelated to shooting like intimidate or just flash. 

[Crunch]

It's all in style, and that is where it should stay.

Whichever rule they had adopted it would have impacted the way people play, the fact that you prefer the current style doesn't make it preferable. I suspect I'll like the way this plays better. Maybe its because my group plays a bunch of different systems with the same crew but you can totally see the way mechanics impact flow if you pay attention.

I think his point is his preferred style leaves other options open, this style forces a particular style.  Forcing is generally seem as worse than influencing.

And my point is that neither rule closes off the other option, they just each influence one way or the other. There's nothing stopping you from standing and shooting under the new rule, you just don't suffer a 50% damage reduction for doing anything but shooting.

[Glyph]

Drawing a weapon normally is the "ready weapon" simple action.  The confusing part of the "only one attack" rule is that it makes SS and SA weapons functionally the same.  But if you are stuck with only one attack (and there is nothing indicating that spells are an exception to that rule), there are plenty of non-attack simple actions, taking cover and observing in detail being probably the top two.

[Crunch]

Drawing a weapon normally is the "ready weapon" simple action.  The confusing part of the "only one attack" rule is that it makes SS and SA weapons functionally the same.  But if you are stuck with only one attack (and there is nothing indicating that spells are an exception to that rule), there are plenty of non-attack simple actions, taking cover and observing in detail being probably the top two.

Or moving, I suspect that position will be more important under this rule set. Especially when options like Intercept as an interrupt get added in. Note that there are still complex options for bursts.

I also don't think we've seen the weapon mode rules yet and there may be other things going on with SS weapons.

[Michael Chandra]

Two options. 1: Single-Shot is once per Combat Turn, vs Semi-Automatic once per Action Phase. 2: Both are once per Action Phase, but Semi-Automatic gets the option of doing a burst for a Complex Action.

So here's my guesses:
SS: PERHAPS once per Combat Turn, likely just once per action phase.
SA: Either 1 bullet as Simple, or a 3-bullet burst as Complex Action.
BF: SB for a Simple Action, or LB for a Complex Action.
FA: LB for a Simple Action, or FB for a Complex Action.

Any weapon used in a  Complex Action multiple Passes in a row has its previous recoil added up. So if you have a Semi-Automatic weapon with 2 Recoil compensation, that first Semi-Auto Burst will be fine but the next Initiative Pass you'd start taking penalties.

- - -

Anyway, I missed the part where it says you can only do 1 Attack Action per Action Phase, which also applies to Spellcasting. This means Spellcasting, Melee and Ranged all do 1 attack per Initiative Pass now, which makes it easier to balance their combat potential.

Add to that the rumored Reaction+Intuition dodgepool against both melee and ranged attacks, and suddenly we got gunfights that actually last multiple Combat Turns, rather than a single Initiative Pass. It also makes that extra Initiative Pass that more valuable, since you can't just use it defensively, it also gives you a chance to exhaust an opponent's dodge pool so you can actually slaughter them faster.