[Boomstick]

Thanks for the insights.
Maybe 5 dice rolled is wrong but he has a point, if device rating is superior to cyberdeck rating, you need edge.
Which means you can't hack a good system because if I understood well, you have to roll for each action
with these having a final threshold of system rating + mark needed, if I am right.
So, while
target system rating + max mark needed < deck rating, you can do whatever you want pretty easily,
once system rating + mark needed=> deck rating, that means that at least the most difficult actions are prohibited if you
haven't edge available.

While I guess that number of actions needed to progress into a system will be inferior for matter of simplification,
I feel that if there are really no extended tests, Deckers' life is not gonna be so heroic and full of blaze.

[RHat]

I think the one issue I see is that unless there are some affordable/obtainable high level cyber decks then limiting the hackers dice to 6 (the usual rating cap on most affordable gear in SR4) may result in A) systems that are just too tough to reliably hack or B) universally low device ratings (try hacking a drone upgraded to a 5 when you're throwing 5 dice on a test that isn't extended.) I am a little annoyed they turned semi-automatic fire into a complex, but this is more of an "awe... i can't hit the guy with a dart load of Zero before following it with (insert drug of choice here)" or being able to take Aim and shoot in the same turn than truly detrimental to the game. Especially seeing as how having only 1 int pass is a rarity.

...  Sorry, but were you actually using limts as dice pool caps?  Because that's not what they are - they cap your hits.

Also, I'm pretty sure QSR hacking limits were simplified, because according to one of Hardy's blog comment replies, the limit there is deck attributes.  Might be they wanted to leave that matter of 4 Limits on one piece of gear and issues of Attribute Swapping out of it.

[DamienHollow]

To hack a device you need marks, You can have up to four marks. each mark gives you more privileges (administrator privileges at four.) To get marks you hack a device rolling logic+Hacking with a hit limit equal to your cyber-deck and it is not a extended test. I can start a game with drone Response, Signal, and Sensors at 5 (Pilot 4 or 5 depending on if I take restricted gear) without any trouble at all (ergo, "Device 5.") The highest I expect the Cyber decks to be at chargen would be 6, though quite a bit of gear in this game hits 12 availability at rating 3. If this is the case then the hacker is going to be desperate for better gear which may prove problematic if you follow the acquisition guidelines and don;t have a GM who just let's you pick up mil-spec tech at the corner drug store. Hell of a roll to make if you have a deck rating 5. Even with 6 Logic, Six Hacking, and 2 from a specialization your throwing 14 dice averaging 4-5 hits. So you have just under a 50% chance of succeeding and not just blowing a complex action.

[Mara]

Is there a way to get more then one Mark at a time?

[DamienHollow]

Not that they've said...
Mark 1: Crack/Edit Files (requires a complex action to get the mark then a complex action to Crack the File)
Mark 2: Control a Smartgun (Requires a simple action to eject the clip or make the gun fire and a Hacking+logic [cyber deck limit] test vs device rating)
Mark 3: Crashing the Device (Requires a Hacking+Logic [Cyberdeck] vs 2x device rating)
You can now run silent as a simple action imparting a -2 to all actions but they don't say what this does for you other than make you harder to spot (no number given)
You can also fight with other hackers to kick their marks using the same check as everything else.

Oh! yes, tests followed by brackets [Cyberdeck], the brackets are the limit or what limits you.

[Mara]

So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.

[Michael Chandra]

Given how the dodgepools are up and we're down to 1 attack per IP, that makes them more viable than in SR4. My predictions are easy fights will last about 1 CT rather than 1 IP, and tough fights are up to 3 CT. Of course if the enemy hacker manages to get his marks before the fight starts...

[GiraffeShaman]

Thanks for the rundown Firebug. Now I want to play a decker, so I can relive my days throwing forks in Magic the Gathering.

[Bull]

So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.

Keep in mind the Quickstart rules are... incomplete.

How many marks you need depends on the action.  For this, you need the Control Device test.  To perform actions with Control Device, you need marks equal to the complexity of the action, i.e. 1=Free, 2=Simple, 3=Complex.  It's a Free Action to eject the clip on a smartgun, so it's 1 Mark for that.

Marking is a Complex Action, but you can try and place more than one mark at a time.  YOu can take a -4 Dice Pool penalty to place two marks at once, a a -10 to place 3. Obviously, only the best of the best will be trying that last one.

The Matrix Actions list tells you exactly how many marks you need to perform each action, though sometimes there are bonuses to having more marks than needed. You also do extra damage to targets you have marks on.

[Crunch]

So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.

Keep in mind the Quickstart rules are... incomplete.

How many marks you need depends on the action.  For this, you need the Control Device test.  To perform actions with Control Device, you need marks equal to the complexity of the action, i.e. 1=Free, 2=Simple, 3=Complex.  It's a Free Action to eject the clip on a smartgun, so it's 1 Mark for that.

Marking is a Complex Action, but you can try and place more than one mark at a time.  YOu can take a -4 Dice Pool penalty to place two marks at once, a a -10 to place 3. Obviously, only the best of the best will be trying that last one.

The Matrix Actions list tells you exactly how many marks you need to perform each action, though sometimes there are bonuses to having more marks than needed. You also do extra damage to targets you have marks on.

Out of curiosity what would be the device rating of a smartgun link?

[DamienHollow]

SR 4 would put them between 3 and 5 somewhere between personal gear and military tech. This is assuming the moron is dumb enough not to wire or skin-link which would render the hacker SOL. Seriously, cyber-ware, smart-guns, vehicles... they ain't a hackers forte if the owners smarter than a street thug. Drones are still going to be prey but considering my drones usually start at rating 4 or five (I almost never have an unimproved drone unless I intend to burn it.) Security systems are up in the air.

I remember there being some discussion on making the hacker skill set more "combat" effective. Unless I've missed something I don't see much improvement in these respects (Although combat slowed down a little, sort of... most people will have multiple IP's but it takes twice as long to shoot a gun. Take it how you will.)

[Bull]

Simple, common, and public items have a Device Rating of 1 (Appliances, public transit, etc).

Average items have a DR of 2 (Guns, cyberware, vehicles, drones, etc)

Security and corporate items, plus Alphaware have a DR of 3.

Military, Betaware and other high end devices have a DR of 4.

Cutting edge devices like credsticks, deltaware and black ops vehicles have a DR of 5.

Really top end stuff has a DR of 6.

This is just the default rating though.  It can be beefed up by linking it through your commlink and PAN.  A Transys Avalon is a DR6 and only costs 5,000¥.

Bull

[DamienHollow]

So 5th has taken the SR4 ratings and knocked them down by one across the board? At least that's how it looks compared to my copy of SR4 core.

[Boomstick]

Bull, please, am I right about rules  mechanic in the following:

if device rating is superior to cyberdeck rating, you need edge. Which means you can't hack a good system because if I understood well, you have to roll for each action with these having a final threshold of system rating + mark needed, if I am right.
So, while target system rating + max mark needed < deck rating, you can do whatever you want pretty easily,
once system rating + mark needed=> deck rating, that means that at least the most difficult actions are prohibited if you
haven't edge available.

Thanks

[phydaux42]

Since we have a release date for the PDF of the 5th ed rule book, do we have a release date for the 5th ed Quickstart PDF?