[Shamie]

He refuses to Kill

Your point? D&D is the only game where you have to "kill shyte" to gain XP.

My point is that a) Him not killing means that i cant never stick any consecuence for his perfect SIN life as also the runs are from Dana Oaks. So if he kill people sure, i can make consecuences but minor things like agression and even then only on criminal doesnt come in conflict with his SIN qualitie.
b) im running missions and even for now all the runs are about arresting bad guys however im gonna encounter one assasination or just truly criminal run. For example next on the list is Burn. So i have to see how to convince him to kidnapp an student.

He will only take runs related to his brother
Then make some runs related to this. This sort of thing crops up when someone doesn't enjoy the "villain of the week" style sessions.

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Doesn't fit in with the rest of the team

From reading the first post of the thread, I think it's less "doesn't fit in with the team" and more "doesn't fit in with my view of a proper shadow runner". I think you need to stop trying to get assistance in forcing your view onto him.

what im trying to find assintance is to break his combo of erased + SIN by wich i can never treathen him to take any job. If he would just take the jobs sure (that he agreed when we started the campaign to), but when he gets picky i cant throw the johnson in any threathing way. If i throw him "this is a powerfull person, you shouldnt mess up with him" he responds to "im from space, i dont know him", if i throw "he may put false charges to you or come to beat you up later he throws "well good luck with my erased qualitie and if he tries i go to the police or tassed him with stick & shock bullets because im an official citizen"

He shouldn't. Tabletop RPing is a mutual effort, a group activity, sounds like this guy doesn't want to be a part of the whole, he wants to be the whole. That's not something to facilitate or condone. If the player doesn't want to play Missions then he needs to either GTFO or recognize the limitations of his GM and campaign and figure out how his PC fits into those confines until the GM is able to better facilitate it all.

To be honest i liked when it started but its becoming a chore, last time he started just complaining for 10 minutes about how he didnt know how to tip a waitress extra for information because he is from space and in real life he didnt had any idea and that waving virtual money isnt the same as real money etc. Like you said i should just kick him out or TPK the game or  just gonna kill his brother in the most meh way possible like "you walking and on the other side of the street you see your brother, he cross the street and then he is hit by a bus"

[GiraffeShaman]

To be honest i liked when it started but its becoming a chore, last time he started just complaining for 10 minutes about how he didnt know how to tip a waitress extra for information because he is from space and in real life he didnt had any idea and that waving virtual money isnt the same as real money etc. Like you said i should just kick him out or TPK the game or  just gonna kill his brother in the most meh way possible like "you walking and on the other side of the street you see your brother, he cross the street and then he is hit by a bus"

That does sound irritating, not just for you, but for others in the group. Does this person play lots of emo vampires? It sounds like the type.

I wouldn't kill his brother, since that is the biggest tether you have on him, and you are saying you want a tether. If you want Johnsons to be able to intimidate him, destroy everything around him, bit by bit, most especially his contacts. Nor would I kill the player, or even injure him directly. (Just remove him from the game if you want to go that route) Have his brother or a contact, or one of his team's contacts, beat up or maimed. (Or one of that person's relatives) If he's indifferent to this, have people stop talking to him and avoiding him.

You can also do things like have his car or apartment explode. (with him near it, but not in it) Once again the more this type of thing goes on, the more he becomes a pariah, and people avoid him as they don't want to draw the powerful Johnson's ire.

The above is an extreme tactic, but it's kind of sounding like that is what you are looking for. It might be best to talk with this player and perhaps with the other players. I know many players get upset at a showboat stealing all the GM's attention and the game time, which is what he's doing with the waitress thing.

Also, reward players who are actually doing things constructive to the campaign with spotlight time. And vice versa. Don't indulge someone who wants to waste everyone's time. The lack of spotlight might motivate him to do something constructive.

[Reaver]

and this is why I don't Co-GM.

sounding more and more like it is time to sit ALL the players down and have a nice little chat about things like Team chemistry, the Role of the GM, and the Responsibilities of the Players.

[firebug]

I've had a player who had a similar character--  A pacifist, disliked violence, etc.  He did runs because he needed money to care for his child who was mentally disabled.  Eventually we retired the character because he couldn't work well with other characters.  Not the player's fault, just that his character realistically would be a hinderance to others who were more bloodthirsty.

What your Co-GM is doing though, seems immature and rude to me.  I think a big part of your problem is that you can do very little "in-game" because you're running missions.  The only time when more freeform story happens is when this person is GMing, and he just does whatever he likes with his character.  "RPGmasturbation" is an accurate description.  I don't think your friend wants to play Shadowrun.  I think he wants to write a story where he doesn't need to care about the enjoyment of others.  If you can manage in-game, let it be known that he's running out of money, and worst of all, no one wants to hire him.  You quite a job half-way through because it's "too menial" for you?  That gets back to your Johnson, and you don't[/i] get hired again.  And he definitely needs money.  If his brother is such a big deal, he should be doing all the things Reaver mentioned in his post.  Hiring private investigators, paying for information, etc.  And if it turns out his brother is in some real trouble?  Then he'd better expect the rates of those investigators to go even higher as they become worried about their own lives for poking into the wrong people.

If i throw him "this is a powerfull person, you shouldnt mess up with him" he responds to "im from space, i dont know him"

Wrong.  This powerful person?  It doesn't matter if he can go run behind Saeder Krupp's borders.  He still has a face, and he still has a body.  Just because his SIN may be wiped clean every 24 hours doesn't mean everyone forgets what he looks like and what he did.  Everyone leaves a trail, and it sure as hell takes more than one core-book quality to become untouchable.  Erased is not as powerful as people think it is, and being an SK employee just means you need to cover your ass even more, because if they realize you have been doing criminal activities, you're going into their corporate prison.  And if they suspect you did something that might have given someone else access to their secrets?  You'll be tortured at best.

[Ryo]

Erased implies that you have somebody looking out for you that's constantly changing data on you. So who is his guardian angel? If the Johnson is powerful enough and he's being this flippant, that guy takes a long walk off a short pier in concrete shoes. As a GM, you are perfectly capable of revoking qualities, both positive and negative, if the player is acting in a way that would logically cause them to go away.

And again, I fail to see how any of this makes him untouchable. He disrespects the Johnson, the Johnson has him beaten half to death, right then, right there. He can't hide from the troll in the same room. What did he say he was going to do, go to the cops? The cops wouldn't do anything, because the Johnson is a powerful criminal, and your guy has no proof that will stick. There's a reason they had to get Al Capone on tax evasion. This is how organized crime works.

[ZeConster]

what im trying to find assintance is to break his combo of erased + SIN by wich i can never treathen him to take any job. If he would just take the jobs sure (that he agreed when we started the campaign to), but when he gets picky i cant throw the johnson in any threathing way. If i throw him "this is a powerfull person, you shouldnt mess up with him" he responds to "im from space, i dont know him", if i throw "he may put false charges to you or come to beat you up later he throws "well good luck with my erased qualitie and if he tries i go to the police or tassed him with stick & shock bullets because im an official citizen"

• Saying "I don't know him, so I'm not afraid of him" is ridiculous. Intimidation checks aside, if he's searching for his brother, he should be trying to both find out who the influential people are, and then play nice with them. He's basically being completely out of character.
• Erased doesn't really help with pissed off Johnsons - a large part of Street Credit, Notoriety and Public Awareness is word of mouth, and it's entirely possible some Johnsons still have little black books which they write runner names and ratings in. And keep in mind that even at level 2, Erased only kicks in after 24 hours - plenty of time to get his ass hauled to the police station on accusations of public urination, or arrange for some thugs to teach him some manners. Also: printers are 5¥, so if his Erased becomes too obvious, anyone who chooses to can just print their files on him before they're erased.
  In fact, that actually happened in the campaign I'm in: we got some files from a cop contact about an attempted murder on an NPC who was related to a run, but the files were gone from our commlinks a while later - except my character's an old-fashioned PI who printed the files and stuffed them in a file cabinet.
• Being an "official citizen" doesn't do him much good if the Johnson is an official UCAS citizen (which plenty of them are - after all, they don't have to get their hands dirty, so if they play it smart, they won't get a criminal SIN) - who do you think the cops are gonna pistolwhip if they find an orbiter assaulting someone from Seattle?
• You do not go to the cops if a Johnson gives you trouble. It's dumb, it won't actually work, and it'll just make them angrier.

[All4BigGuns]

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Or he can only advance his character's plot with his sessions because you're refusing to do anything with it. Ever consider that? You said you think the other player is "just doing whatever he wants" in the original post, so have you considered that maybe you are the one that is being catered to with the published missions being run at all and that the issues are forming because neither particularly care for prefab adventures?

Basically it boils down to the fact that it's a two way street, you're going to have to give some ground too if you expect him to do so.

[Novocrane]

Figuring out who is keeping him erased is a good idea.

 I'd also define the limitations of being a SINner with erased. If the latter makes the former a neutral quality rather than a negative quality, then make him cough up the karma and treat it as a good fake SIN, or remind him it's a negative by not having his SIN erase down to untraceable while still appearing legit.

Get into Spy Games for SIN details, if you can. Ask what's being erased from the list. It'll be harsh.

[Ryo]

If you're having such a problem with him, just let him sit it out. If that's how he wants to play it, let him do it. The group goes to the Johnson, your friend gets fussy and says he won't do the job, have the Johnson say 'Alright, you're free to leave. Your friends here can do the job without you.' and then proceed to keep playing as normal, pitching the job to the remaining players.

He gets no nuyen, he gets no karma, and he gets to just sit there doing nothing for the rest of the session. Just call his bluff. Being excluded isn't fun for anyone, so he'll either get the idea and become a team player or quit. Either way, you're better off.

[RHat]

Also, there's something ALL characters with Erased should keep in mind: Once it's been on the Matrix, is is NEVER truly gone - it is possible to, through a Resonance Realms Search, recover any and all data that has otherwise been erased.

Still, you really should talk to the guy about it - this sounds more like an out of character problem than an in character problem, and it is fundamentally impossible to fix an out of character problem with an in character solution.

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Or he can only advance his character's plot with his sessions because you're refusing to do anything with it. Ever consider that? You said you think the other player is "just doing whatever he wants" in the original post, so have you considered that maybe you are the one that is being catered to with the published missions being run at all and that the issues are forming because neither particularly care for prefab adventures?

Basically it boils down to the fact that it's a two way street, you're going to have to give some ground too if you expect him to do so.

It's fair for him to want some stuff towards his character's story.  It's ludicrously unfair for him to expect everything to be related to that.

[All4BigGuns]

Also, there's something ALL characters with Erased should keep in mind: Once it's been on the Matrix, is is NEVER truly gone - it is possible to, through a Resonance Realms Search, recover any and all data that has otherwise been erased.

Still, you really should talk to the guy about it - this sounds more like an out of character problem than an in character problem, and it is fundamentally impossible to fix an out of character problem with an in character solution.

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Or he can only advance his character's plot with his sessions because you're refusing to do anything with it. Ever consider that? You said you think the other player is "just doing whatever he wants" in the original post, so have you considered that maybe you are the one that is being catered to with the published missions being run at all and that the issues are forming because neither particularly care for prefab adventures?

Basically it boils down to the fact that it's a two way street, you're going to have to give some ground too if you expect him to do so.

It's fair for him to want some stuff towards his character's story.  It's ludicrously unfair for him to expect everything to be related to that.

Hence why I said "two way street", but someone has to give ground first, and from the sounds of it, I think it should be the OP.

[RHat]

Hence why I said "two way street", but someone has to give ground first, and from the sounds of it, I think it should be the OP.

Trouble is, if that's done in-game it basically means that the player's current tactics are working.  Which, of course, gets back to the point that you can't solve an out of game issue with in game solutions.

[Reaver]

Also, there's something ALL characters with Erased should keep in mind: Once it's been on the Matrix, is is NEVER truly gone - it is possible to, through a Resonance Realms Search, recover any and all data that has otherwise been erased.

Still, you really should talk to the guy about it - this sounds more like an out of character problem than an in character problem, and it is fundamentally impossible to fix an out of character problem with an in character solution.

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Or he can only advance his character's plot with his sessions because you're refusing to do anything with it. Ever consider that? You said you think the other player is "just doing whatever he wants" in the original post, so have you considered that maybe you are the one that is being catered to with the published missions being run at all and that the issues are forming because neither particularly care for prefab adventures?

Basically it boils down to the fact that it's a two way street, you're going to have to give some ground too if you expect him to do so.

It's fair for him to want some stuff towards his character's story.  It's ludicrously unfair for him to expect everything to be related to that.

Hence why I said "two way street", but someone has to give ground first, and from the sounds of it, I think it should be the OP.

I dunno All4, I think it's time to talk to the other players and see if they are getting as irritated as the OP sounds. If they are, then it's time Spaceman had a little talking to, or was asked to have his character "walk away". However, if the other players are fine with Spaceman's attitude...

[ZeConster]

When we started this campaign we agreed that i would only run missions and he would run "normal games" but it became like i run missions that he bitchs and moans to take and when he DM we only advance his personal plot that to me advancing the plot of your own PC when one is DMing is like RPGmasturbation.

Or he can only advance his character's plot with his sessions because you're refusing to do anything with it. Ever consider that? You said you think the other player is "just doing whatever he wants" in the original post, so have you considered that maybe you are the one that is being catered to with the published missions being run at all and that the issues are forming because neither particularly care for prefab adventures?

Basically it boils down to the fact that it's a two way street, you're going to have to give some ground too if you expect him to do so.

Yes, because requiring someone to insert plot hooks for a single character into Missions is a two-way street, not a one-way street heading the other way.

[Novocrane]

Shifting to 5th edition would work in your favour. "Erased" is listed under matrix searches, and has a threshold / interval.