[Shamie]

Hello to all, im in need of a more experience DM to help me out in this problem.

i have this problematic player who likes the world of shadowrun but feel that the merc approach of shadowrun is too boring for him. To him the tipical PC of Shadowrun is a psycopath who only lives for XP and Nuyen, much like the dungeon crawler PC in D&D. So he made this PC who im gonna refeer to Spaceman.
 
Spaceman come from a space colonie of Saeder Krupp and one day his brother just went away from the  colony and into Seattle. He has a medium lifestyle and with all the nuyen he has earned in the first 2 missions he already has enough for 4 month of living at least. So incharacter he is becoming picky about what jobs to make. He is basically playing a Chaotic good character. The other problem is that he has a Saeder Krupp Sin so he has extraterritoriality inmunity so i cant find a way for him to make him want the jobs because his only interest is finding his brother. When he (as a player) found out that stun weapons are best than normal one he made a PC who is all tasers, stick-and-shock bullets and microwave rifle so he never kills

I want to find a way for the setting to screw him over lightly not ruining his fun but as we are playing a cyberpunk game, drive in the concept that HE is a shadowrunner, he does this because he needs the money and he is an outlaw. However his character is very dissonant from the rest of the group who are tipical nuyen hungry Shadowrunners.

He is a good player (usually) and a good DM and i cant kick him out of the game because he is the coDM but always we try a new system he has to make a Special-buterfly character who is out of the standar PC/mindset. In systems/setting in wich i have a pretty good handle on things is not a problem but as im running mission the last two missions he always make a fuss to accept the jobs. For example in Free taiwan, when they found out what was inside the container he just got offended that he was hired to such menial task that he made us abbandon the job.
If the johnson is kind of an asshole to him verbally i have to go to steer him for him to barely accept the job. But i know later in the season im gonna run into a job like assassination or kidnapp and he may not accept it and i wont be able to motivate him because he has enought money to live for now and i cant throw him something like the IRS or a johnson blackmailing him to take the job because of his official Saeder Krupp SIN. So he is a criminal who isnt one really as he doesnt kill.

Any advice would be appreciate

Thanks

[Walks Through Walls]

Just because he has a S-K SIN doesn't mean he can't be tried for crimes or has extraterritoriality immunity. If anything S-K would frown on his activities since they put S-K in a bad light. Having a SIN is a negative quality if it made you immune to prosecution it would be a major positive quality.

As far as being motivate by only money while not necessarily the norm I wouldn't call it out of context with the setting. Now the wanting to find his brother that has hooks written all over it to me.

For the assassination or a run you really want him to do, but are afraid he will turn down have Mr. Johnson tell him that he has a file that he will turn over to him with information about his brother if he does this job for Mr. Johnson.
Or if you are really devious have the Johnson show him "evidence" that the target was behind his brother's death and disappearance. Then after the fact he finds out that the information was a plant. Mr. Johnson will have made an enemy of the character, but such are the things good arch-enemies are made of.

Hope this helps

[Raiden]

Drive home the point that low lifestyle SUCKS, think the area people refer to as "the ghetto" cardboard thin walls, the worst possible food. no heat/ AC. half the time electricity is out or half working. Playing a "good" PC in SR is somewhat difficult if you have no long term goals. how much nuyen do they make average per run?
 
Tie in leads to his brother with the runs. let the Johnson drop a "hint" on it.  If he is RPing the character that REALLY doesn't care about money or his living arragements make the runs appealing to his moral sense, his goal (finding his brother) or some other thing. Also, if the other PCs want to do the run, have them do it.

OR if it gets to disruptive talk to him OOC about it.

[Shamie]

Just because he has a S-K SIN doesn't mean he can't be tried for crimes or has extraterritoriality immunity. If anything S-K would frown on his activities since they put S-K in a bad light. Having a SIN is a negative quality if it made you immune to prosecution it would be a major positive quality.

As far as being motivate by only money while not necessarily the norm I wouldn't call it out of context with the setting. Now the wanting to find his brother that has hooks written all over it to me.

For the assassination or a run you really want him to do, but are afraid he will turn down have Mr. Johnson tell him that he has a file that he will turn over to him with information about his brother if he does this job for Mr. Johnson.
Or if you are really devious have the Johnson show him "evidence" that the target was behind his brother's death and disappearance. Then after the fact he finds out that the information was a plant. Mr. Johnson will have made an enemy of the character, but such are the things good arch-enemies are made of.

Hope this helps

Sorry what i meant was that i want him not blowing off jobs just because it isnt related to his brother.

Drive home the point that low lifestyle SUCKS, think the area people refer to as "the ghetto" cardboard thin walls, the worst possible food. no heat/ AC. half the time electricity is out or half working. Playing a "good" PC in SR is somewhat difficult if you have no long term goals. how much nuyen do they make average per run?
 
Tie in leads to his brother with the runs. let the Johnson drop a "hint" on it.  If he is RPing the character that REALLY doesn't care about money or his living arragements make the runs appealing to his moral sense, his goal (finding his brother) or some other thing. Also, if the other PCs want to do the run, have them do it.

OR if it gets to disruptive talk to him OOC about it.

I made a mistake, he has medium lifestyle.

We make fairly well actually, they have save up to 40000 more or less between back in bussines, hidding in the dark and another run. They use all non lethal but as he doesnt need the money things like double crossing the johnson or just do something amoral doesnt even come into question as they dont need money. They are too confortable. The other player always goes by what spaceman goes and the third is my pc.

[Raiden]

shake them up. put them OUT of there comfort zone. have a really high end corp johnson offer them something. kill blank for blank (A LOT) of nuyen and let him drop a hint about knowing something about his brother.

[Shamie]

shake them up. put them OUT of there comfort zone. have a really high end corp johnson offer them something. kill blank for blank (A LOT) of nuyen and let him drop a hint about knowing something about his brother.

Sorry but what kill blank for blank means? English is not my main language

I just tough of something, if spaceman left his job at saeder krupp space station would he still have his valid SIN? Or would Saedder Krupp revoke it?

[Raiden]

sorry the blanks represent a person. kill "johny" is your job, the other blank represents the amount of nuyen to be paid for the job.

[emsquared]

Posts like these always make me sooo thankful for my group.

I want to find a way for the setting to screw him over lightly not ruining his fun but as we are playing a cyberpunk game, drive in the concept that HE is a shadowrunner, he does this because he needs the money and he is an outlaw. However his character is very dissonant from the rest of the group who are tipical nuyen hungry Shadowrunners.

You shouldn't need to screw him over per se, to drive home the concept that he needs to make money. 4 mos. may be a while in game-time, but ask how he would feel IRL if he only knew he could live for 4 mos. out? He wouldn't be comfortable with that IRL, so why is his PC? Ask him that, after letting him know that as a S-K space-expat, he has very few options to make money (which is presumably why he's a runner). Also, information can be expensive. Maybe someone knows something about his brother but wants 50K to tell him anything. Or, just let him sit in the background of runs if that's what he thinks he wants to do, he can just do things his PC is comfortable with (legwork, lookout, driver, whatever), and then see if the group gives him an equal cut when they've been risking their lives and he's been sitting in a car with binoculars.

If he's happy just living in his Medium apartment, let him stay there. Absolutely work little bits of his brother into the story, just as you would with anybody's background (don't make it a focus), but - especially with Missions - it's not entirely your job to motivate his character. RPing is a mutual story-telling experience, if he doesn't want to hold up his end of that, don't drag him along, he'll come around when he realizes his PC is boring.

He is a good player (usually) and a good DM and i cant kick him out of the game because he is the coDM but always we try a new system he has to make a Special-buterfly character who is out of the standar PC/mindset.

It's not even that special of a butterfly, I think the "lawful/pacifist runner" would be a fun and interesting approach to RP a PC - but he has to RP, he can't just sit there and be like "give me something my morals can work with or I'm doing nothing", that's selfish - and you should tell him so if that's what he's doing. He should instead RP the struggle within himself - in a way that doesn't interfere with the flow of the game - and he should figure out what he can do to get the job done while minimizing his own lawful risk (disguises, fake SINs, find a good lawyer Contact, etc.).

... im running mission the last two missions he always make a fuss to accept the jobs. For example in Free taiwan, when they found out what was inside the container he just got offended that he was hired to such menial task that he made us abbandon the job.

That's just childish, and you need to tell him he's being disruptive to the game and group, if it's bringing everyone else down. Again, it's a mutual experience - if he doesn't want to participate why is he there?

[Ryo]

I think the big thing here is that you have majorly misunderstood how the SIN quality works. Having a SIN with Saedur-Krupp is a NEGATIVE quality, not a positive one. It's a hindrance. It shouldn't be helping him at all, and it definitely doesn't give him any kind of immunity whatsoever. He's just a guy, not an important diplomat. Having a Saedur-Krupp SIN is no different from being a citizen of a different country. If a Canadian came to America and broke the law, the Americans would still arrest him.

If anything, Saedur-Krupp would be putting the screws to him for his work as a shadowrunner. He ever gets caught, and the suits come in and have a less than polite chat with him. Best case scenario, he's forced to work exclusively for them, or else they throw him into a corporate prison.

But otherwise, I have to agree with the others here. If he has to get special treatment, he'll just stop getting jobs. He gives the Johnson lip, the Johnson tells his Troll buddy to take him out back and beat the shit out of him, and then just continues to talk with the rest of the team. No Johnson should be kowtowing to a fussy pacifist for any reason.

And if he thinks he can just sit on his pile of cash, have someone he annoyed get a hacker to take that fancy SIN of his and empty his bank account.

[GiraffeShaman]

I often play "good" leaning characters whern I'm a player. (But of course somewhat gray as it is SR) I don't do this to be disruptive, but because I find it an interesting contrast to the selfish nature of many runners. Also, it's a fun challenge.

A couple tips to try to include this player more:

1. Give him some causes. Shove the suffering of other NPCs in his face. A truly moral character would not just hide in his apartment as the world burned. Will he just sit there if he hears Humanis goons are picking on the orks in a nearby housing project? Spaceman thinks he doesn't need money, but sometimes you need money to help others. Give him ways to spend money on helping others, as well as donating his talents and skills.

My character Skyscraper the giraffe shaman is currently trying to save up a sizable amount of money in order to fund a shadowrun to rescue a giraffe from a truly evil man. This guy tried to enslave him after he offered his services as an animal caretaker. My character had to flee using shapechange magics and leave the giraffe behind. Quite a bitter pill to swallow and all the motivation I need to save up 100,000 to fund an operation.


2. Give the team some job offers that are somewhat good guy/moral leaning. But make them pay less than the usual jobs, since the rich corporate sponsors aren't behind them. Make them as appealing as you can to the Spaceman. The Johnsons hiring might be environmental organizations, a housing project leadership board, or a priest that helps out homeless children. Watch Burn Notice or the A Team for some good guy Shadowrun ideas if you need them. Keep giving the usual and higher paying job offers as well. Make the team choose between them.

Now, what might very well happen is the PCs will argue about what jobs to take, as your greedy PCs will want to take the higher paying jobs. But this NEEDs to happen. This team needs to find out if they can truly work together. Maybe Spaceman will convince them to become more like him. Maybe not. If this group truly can't work together, you need to talk it out with the players. One solution might be to have Spaceman form a new team of good guy runners (aka Robin Hoods) And you can switch off games.

If none of this is working and the guy is still sitting in his apartment like a lump, then yes, burn his apartment down or have a hacker destroy his finances. But this kind of thing should be your last resort.

Being a Hooder shadowrunner can be rewarding, but it also should be a challenge in a dystopia like Shadowrun.

Give him some contacts too, ones that need help and favors later on.

[Reaver]

lets break this down a little bit:

He has a SK Sin:

Ok, so he has a SIN, this means that his prints and biometrics are on file with the SIN database and any biological evidence (hair, fingerprint, blood, saliva) left at a crime scene can be used to link him to the crime. Once that link is established, his SIN can be used to track is movements through the city/country/world. The fact that it is a SK SIN makes no difference to the local legal authorities. And it offers no special protections to the holder of the SIN. If he commits a crime off SK property and is arrested, there is nothing SK can do about it, If he lives on SK property and commits a crime outside of side property, all the SIN and living address means is that the Authorities have to ask SK to arrest him and turn him over. MOST Megacorps will do this for the average "Joe Worker" because it more helpful to be on good relations with a country/city then it is worth protecting a peon in the system. Even if SK doesn't agree to turn him over, he is fair game once he steps foot off SK Property.

He refuses to Kill

Good for him!! Shadowrunners don't NEED to kill to pull off the average run... it's just usually easier then taking all the Precautions of Not killing. In fact, the only job that requires a Runner to kill is a wetwork job.... And Runners who do them or go around blasting people on a daily basis USUALLY don't have a long career. (the law looks A LOT harder for the guys involved in the murder of 15 people then they do looking for the guys that stole a "widget") Seeing as how most players play shadowrunners as barely functional psychopathic serial killers, someone who plays a character with Morals should be rewarded for the effort.

He will only take runs related to his brother

To quote a great TV show: "I don't think so Tim"
Sorry, but that's just not the way it works. In this case HE is the one that wants info on his brother. So what is he doing to find him? Has he hired a private investigator? Has he been back tracking on his brother's last know activities, friends, and location to see if something stands out in his disappearance? Has he been doing ANYTHING other then sitting in his apartment waiting for the info to fall into his lap? All that costs money you know. A single private investigator costs between $200 - $500 PER DAY! ($1000 to $2500 per WEEK, $4000 to $10,000 PER MONTH!!!). So how is he paying for all this searching? Does he have the skills and contacts  to do it himself? (I am guessing not as it is a specialized skill set and not many people put the effort into getting all the skills needed to be able to track down missing persons)

In short, he is acting like a Johnson, HE wants the info/widget (his brother), now he has to hire someone to track him down. But since he has no job, how is he going to pay for tracking down his brother?? (Enter... SHADOWRUNS!!!)

Doesn't fit in with the rest of the team

Hate to say it, but this is kind of the FIRST rule of any roleplaying game. If a character doesn't fit in with a group, Why is the group hanging with this dead weight? It's not like they are physically attached to him by a surgery or handcuffs. Just as in real life, when someone is dead weight, they get cut loose. Same with a shadowrun team. If this character doesn't "get with the program" then its time for the team to find someone who will (and lets face it, there is lots of talent in the barrens areas of cities that would jump at the chance to make the cash that a shadowrunner makes...)

Does this mean you/they are ditching the PLAYER? No, he has just basically made a character that is more suited to a solo game and not a team based character. So either they (the other characters) sit him down and tell him to "get with the program" or they cut him loose and hire a replacement (his "new" character), or they pool their resources and "solve" this brothers disappearance (and probably go broke doing so)

[emsquared]

He has a SK Sin:

Ok, so he has a SIN, this means that his prints and biometrics are on file with the SIN database and any biological evidence (hair, fingerprint, blood, saliva) left at a crime scene can be used to link him to the crime. Once that link is established, his SIN can be used to track is movements through the city/country/world. The fact that it is a SK SIN makes no difference to the local legal authorities. And it offers no special protections to the holder of the SIN. If he commits a crime off SK property and is arrested, there is nothing SK can do about it, If he lives on SK property and commits a crime outside of side property, all the SIN and living address means is that the Authorities have to ask SK to arrest him and turn him over. MOST Megacorps will do this for the average "Joe Worker" because it more helpful to be on good relations with a country/city then it is worth protecting a peon in the system. Even if SK doesn't agree to turn him over, he is fair game once he steps foot off SK Property.

Just because he has a SIN doesn't mean any crime where he leaves biometric evidence is going to instantly be linked to him. As I understand it, Corporations especially do not just share SIN information willy nilly, unless they have some reason to (such as nuyen or a reciprocation of sharing from the other organization). So unless he commits a crime against SK, and it's their investigators who get ahold of the evidence, you're about as good as SINless, unless whoever has the evidence knows they need to go to S-K for some reason.

[Reaver]

He has a SK Sin:

Ok, so he has a SIN, this means that his prints and biometrics are on file with the SIN database and any biological evidence (hair, fingerprint, blood, saliva) left at a crime scene can be used to link him to the crime. Once that link is established, his SIN can be used to track is movements through the city/country/world. The fact that it is a SK SIN makes no difference to the local legal authorities. And it offers no special protections to the holder of the SIN. If he commits a crime off SK property and is arrested, there is nothing SK can do about it, If he lives on SK property and commits a crime outside of side property, all the SIN and living address means is that the Authorities have to ask SK to arrest him and turn him over. MOST Megacorps will do this for the average "Joe Worker" because it more helpful to be on good relations with a country/city then it is worth protecting a peon in the system. Even if SK doesn't agree to turn him over, he is fair game once he steps foot off SK Property.

Just because he has a SIN doesn't mean any crime where he leaves biometric evidence is going to instantly be linked to him. As I understand it, Corporations especially do not just share SIN information willy nilly, unless they have some reason to (such as nuyen or a reciprocation of sharing from the other organization). So unless he commits a crime against SK, and it's their investigators who get ahold of the evidence, you're about as good as SINless, unless whoever has the evidence knows they need to go to S-K for some reason.

[From SR4a page 266. Bold faced by me]
The GSINR (the Global SIN Registry, a fully-funded
project of the Corporate Court) is the regulatory body that sets the
worldwide standards for how SINs are used and assigned—and also
what data is correlated with them. Extraterritorial corporations are
required to adhere to these protocols by corporate law, issuing corporate
SINs to track and register their employees/citizens. National
and corporate SIN registries are required to share their data with the
GSINR, but otherwise they keep the data confidential, only making it
available to law enforcement and other appropriate agencies.

Once he has a SIN, it's in a database. And that database is easily accessible by Law enforcement. So yea, any DNA he leaves at a crime scene CAN be tracked back to him pretty easily and quickly.

[All4BigGuns]

He has a SK Sin:

Oh well. Big deal. Yank, yank. Not anything to be griping about.

He refuses to Kill

Your point? D&D is the only game where you have to "kill shyte" to gain XP.

He will only take runs related to his brother
Then make some runs related to this. This sort of thing crops up when someone doesn't enjoy the "villain of the week" style sessions.

Doesn't fit in with the rest of the team

From reading the first post of the thread, I think it's less "doesn't fit in with the team" and more "doesn't fit in with my view of a proper shadow runner". I think you need to stop trying to get assistance in forcing your view onto him.

[emsquared]

He will only take runs related to his brother
Then make some runs related to this. This sort of thing crops up when someone doesn't enjoy the "villain of the week" style sessions.

Doesn't fit in with the rest of the team
From reading the first post of the thread, I think it's less "doesn't fit in with the team" and more "doesn't fit in with my view of a proper shadow runner". I think you need to stop trying to get assistance in forcing your view onto him.

The OP has stated that he is running Missions (sounds like primarily because he's not entirely comfortable with the system and isn't comfortable designing his own runs yet), so he can only really throw so much of the Brother in there, plus, why should this PC get more focus on his backstory - like entire runs - than any of the other players? He shouldn't. Tabletop RPing is a mutual effort, a group activity, sounds like this guy doesn't want to be a part of the whole, he wants to be the whole. That's not something to facilitate or condone. If the player doesn't want to play Missions then he needs to either GTFO or recognize the limitations of his GM and campaign and figure out how his PC fits into those confines until the GM is able to better facilitate it all.