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Gear for 5th ed Sam builds

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RHat

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« Reply #60 on: <08-04-13/0541:12> »
so under the new edition, I have to have wireless?  Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?

Have to?  No.  But there are reasons why you may want to.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #61 on: <08-04-13/0556:53> »
Used Grade is actually worth it for Street Samurais, when it comes to Bone Density Augmentation and Orthoskin. You'd have +4/+4 instead of +3/+3 at the same price and availability, just more essence. It depends on your priorities, but it's quite an interesting option.

I find it weird that Used wouldn't be available at chargen by the way.
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DoubleTap

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« Reply #62 on: <08-04-13/0559:57> »
so under the new edition, I have to have wireless?  Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?

Have to?  No.  But there are reasons why you may want to.

A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked?  no thanks
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RHat

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« Reply #63 on: <08-04-13/0617:22> »
so under the new edition, I have to have wireless?  Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?

Have to?  No.  But there are reasons why you may want to.

A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked?  no thanks

You say that like your defenseless.  Given the actual difficulty of such a thing occurring (and the fact that cyberlimbs don't have bonuses to begin with, and are excluded from this discussion) if you're actually bothering to mount a reasonable defense of your gear (you don't have to be a hacker to defend - buy a decent commlink, or slave things to the decker and let him defend)...
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Emil_Barr

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« Reply #64 on: <08-04-13/0758:22> »
so under the new edition, I have to have wireless?  Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?

Have to?  No.  But there are reasons why you may want to.

A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked?  no thanks

You say that like your defenseless.  Given the actual difficulty of such a thing occurring (and the fact that cyberlimbs don't have bonuses to begin with, and are excluded from this discussion) if you're actually bothering to mount a reasonable defense of your gear (you don't have to be a hacker to defend - buy a decent commlink, or slave things to the decker and let him defend)...

Your defenses arent *that* good. Its been shown to be a 50-50 shot against a char gen decker.

And the decker can only slave about 12 things to his deck. Sam by himself is probably going to take up 7 or 8 of those. Doesnt leave much room for anyone else and you better hope two people dont want to play sams.

Palladion

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« Reply #65 on: <08-04-13/1001:09> »
Used Grade is actually worth it for Street Samurais, when it comes to Bone Density Augmentation and Orthoskin. You'd have +4/+4 instead of +3/+3 at the same price and availability, just more essence. It depends on your priorities, but it's quite an interesting option.

I find it weird that Used wouldn't be available at chargen by the way.

Used ware is available depending if you use SR5 95 or 451 as reference. Former says standard and alpha, latter includes used.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #66 on: <08-05-13/0351:38> »
I know. I was responding to this statement:
A dev also stated that used wear isnt available at char gen. I dont remember of it was on here, dumpshock, or somewhere else.
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Xenon

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« Reply #67 on: <08-05-13/0625:54> »
Your defenses arent *that* good. Its been shown to be a 50-50 shot against a char gen decker.
That is pretty good considering you don't have to do anything for your 5k device to auto counter attack and possible deal (unresistd) matrix damage to the decker and his 345k deck.

- and in addition to this you can also use an interrupt action to go full matrix defense to add Willpower to your defense pool.
- and it is only a free action away to turn off wireless for the rare occasion you might or might not be attacked from the Matrix.


Put in perspective;
You have 50 - 50 (or less if your build is not combat oriented) to survive a firearms fight with a chargen street sam ;)



I still think magicians and adepts have it worse, considering a spirit can attack their focus directly from the astral plane and the magician's or adept's focus will not fight back at all. ...and going toe on toe solo against a powerful spirit in astral combat is deadly - or in best case very unhealthy.
(and to even do that you need to have access to astral projection or at least astral perception and have invested in the skill Astral Combat - a skill that you cant default to attributes on).
« Last Edit: <08-05-13/0627:45> by Xenon »

Psikerlord

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« Reply #68 on: <08-05-13/0745:31> »
can you attack a focus in the astral in 5e?

Emil_Barr

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« Reply #69 on: <08-05-13/1326:16> »
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- and in addition to this you can also use an interrupt action to go full matrix defense to add Willpower to your defense pool.

The 50/50 assumes youre adding your willpower. Otherwise with just the commlink, youd get crushed.

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and it is only a free action away to turn off wireless for the rare occasion you might or might not be attacked from the Matrix.

Assuming I even know its happening.

If you can turn it off and back on as a free action, it renders hacking entirely pointless anyway, so why even make these changes? It isnt even an inconvenience.

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You have 50 - 50 (or less if your build is not combat oriented) to survive a firearms fight with a chargen street sam


No, theyll both survive, because theyll be too busy actively protecting their gear to get any shots off. Or theyll just turn their gear off for the fight, in which case, why buy the stuff at all?

That wasnt a good comparison anyway, because youre talking two people who are on equal footing. The Sam isnt equal to the Decker for hacking unless he adds his willpower.

Xenon

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« Reply #70 on: <08-05-13/1835:16> »
The 50/50 assumes youre adding your willpower. Otherwise with just the commlink, youd get crushed...
Crushed you say?

Attacker would roll Cybercombat + Logic [Attack] which for argument sake is 6+6 dice
A 345k deck have the limit array of 4, 5, 6 ,7 (so the current limit might be as low as 4 or as high as 7 - depending on how much Firewall, Data Processing and Sleaze he want right now).

Defense roll is Intuition + Firewall [+Willpower if you use Full Matrix Defense]. No limit.

Firewall 6 is just 5k away and since Intuition is used for Initiative even the street sam might have an intuition of... say 4? Without slaving the stuff to another member in the team and without using Full Matrix Defense you would still have 10 dice.

12 dice [5] vs 10 dice. You cause matrix unresisted damage to the cyberdeck on tie or win.
That is pretty good odds for not having to spend even a free action to fight back. About 50-50 i'd say.

If you spend some initiative on the interrupt action (yes interrupt, you can take it at any time - even not during your own action phase - and it last for a full combat turn) you even get to add Willpower to the defense roll. More dice than the attacker. No limit. Win on tie.


And, let us not forget that you are still just a free action away to turn off wireless which make you immune to Matrix Attacks. Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.

...and if the decker does fill your entire matrix condition monitor on your device before you switch to local mode (which in this example would take about 2-5 complex actions), you still only need a simple tooklit, 1 hour and 1 single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test (or a Logic + Logic - 1 [Mental] if you don't have Hardware skill) to fix it enough to restore full functionality in your device again.


Now - put the decker in line of sight of the street sam and see who wins that fight ;)



Spiders are not rare, but remember that the vast majority of them are Riggers; Controlling building security, cameras, doors, jumping into remote turrets, coordinating living patrols, providing intel, calling for backup etc.
Security Deckers are pretty rare (information wants to be free etc - crazy hackers).




As a Street Sam I would be more concerned about fighting spirits without help from a Magician than fighting a security rigger without help from a Decker.... Shrug.

Xenon

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« Reply #71 on: <08-05-13/1840:13> »
can you attack a focus in the astral in 5e?
I thought bound and active focus always existed on the astral plane and was open for attacks from within astral plane, but I have not actually read up on that chapter in SR5 so there might be some rule against it. You don't bring your focus when you use Astral Projection anymore? That would suck.....

Emil_Barr

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« Reply #72 on: <08-05-13/1952:06> »
I forgot about adding intuiting to it. So yes, it starts 50/50 before willpower.

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You cause matrix unresisted damage to the cyberdeck on tie or win.

Ive been unable to find where it says this.

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Now - put the decker in line of sight of the street sam and see who wins that fight

Why would he ever be outside of cover if he can avoid it? Hell, why would he ever even been in the same room? Unlike the Sam, he doesnt have to have LOS.

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Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.

Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless
Reflexes/enhancers - incompatable

Increasing limits isnt anywhere near as useful as increasing dp. Youd have to be averaging the limit for it to be useful by itself. If youve got a Ruger Warhawk, thats 15 die to average the natural accuracy.

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Security Deckers are pretty rare (information wants to be free etc - crazy hackers).

Thats like insinuating that Microsoft or Apple dont employ programmers. *Someone* is writing and maintaining all this IC and commercial security software.
« Last Edit: <08-05-13/1955:13> by Emil_Barr »

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #73 on: <08-05-13/2015:50> »
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Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.

Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless
Reflexes/enhancers - incompatable

Increasing limits isnt anywhere near as useful as increasing dp. Youd have to be averaging the limit for it to be useful by itself. If youve got a Ruger Warhawk, thats 15 die to average the natural accuracy.

You do have to add a caveat in there for the first four on your list. Change it to "useless unless you're already one of the top five individuals in the world in the affected ability".

That last one...there is just simply no good excuse to require a Matrix connection for those to not work together. Period.
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RHat

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« Reply #74 on: <08-05-13/2021:41> »
Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless

That depends greatly on your skill level.  If you've got the Enfield AS-7, Agility 7(9), Longarms 6, and a Reflex Recorder, you're running into the base Accuracy of 4 66.09% of the time - and with the laser sight boosting Accuracy, that drops to 45.31%.  The +Limit increases your damage about 21% of the time.  By comparison, your odds of getting the 4 or 5 hits increase by only 6 or 7 percent with the extra die.  So, in this case, the +Limit is about 3 times more useful.
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