[Crunch]

Wouldn't the office ceiling have to be strong enough no to simply get blown up by the grenade?

[Michael Chandra]

Good point, though plascrete is strong usually they got a fake ceiling and the real ceiling is higher.

[Galrohir]

@ Chandra: I'm going by the Devil Rat example, where the damage does exactly that.

@Crunch: You're totally right; I should have specified that the ceiling needs to resist it for it to channel. But if it did, you'd be in a bad situation.

[DWC]

In all likelihood, the blast shreds the drop ceiling, continues up another meter to the structure of the floor above and reflects off of that.  More importantly, if it is resting on the ground when it detonates, then it will either blow through the floor or it will reflect at the full base value of the blast.

[Michael Chandra]

I'd consider it as resting on it but not as "in contact", that's more for explosives tied to the surface with tape or such. So just normal DV. So you'd take the 16P/-2 against the 10+16 soak dice of Plascrete, then apply the resulting damage. In other words, we're reducing 16P with 24 dice, and if we bring it down to 9 or less it won't take out the floor. That's roughly 3/4 chance. But I consider it strange that the example suggests an explosion bounces against the wall it's next to. I'd consider it even stranger if it bounches off the floor.

By the way: A frag grenade wouldn't pierce the plascrete even if it exploded on it, because it wouldn't pierce the Armor value.

[Xenon]

it would if you for example build a 1m x 1m x 1m box of placrete. maybe not on the first rebound, maybe even not on the second rebound but one grenade will destroy almost any barrier as long as you make the volume small enough (at least in theory, i have not read barrier rules for SR5 yet)

then again... rebound damage in the ceiling and the floor and up again only really affect a player if he stand right above the grenade when it goes off....

a more practical example would probably be that the nade land between the player and the far wall. wall get hit by direct blast of the bomb, rebound, pass the bomb - hit the player together with the direct blast wave from the bomb.

or that the stand in a L shaped corridor between the bomb and the corridor corner. player get hit by the direct blast in the front. blast continue pass the player. hit far wall on the corridor corner and rebound back and hit the player in the back as well. lights out.

[sylanna]

I got some questions about hacking grenades for which I can't find an answer:

If I manage to get a mark on a grenade, do I still need a DNI to detonate it? Are technomancers considered having a DNI per default?

If the grenade is shot with a launcher, it seems like I need to subscribe the grenade to my PAN first (actually I don't understand PAN yet)...I can't just hack the grenade and do my stuff. Does this cost me an additional action? Why is there a difference?

Can I deactivate the safety feature of minigrenades with hacking or do I have to open it or something like that?

How does a grenade know, that it is more than 5m away from the launcher, if it isn't a wireless signal?

[Michael Chandra]

If you can mark the grenade, that likely means it has wireless on, which means you can detonate it without DNI as the wireless bonus says.

Given how it's a long hardware test to deactivate the safety feature, it's not hackable.

[sylanna]

Okay, now I am a bit confused...I thought that I always need wireless activated to detonate a grenade via DNI. It needs a "wireless link". Is there a difference between "wireless link" and "wireless"?

Thank you for your answers.

[Michael Chandra]

DNI is a direct connection, and honestly unless your grenades are connected to you by a wire, I don't think you have a DNI to it.

[Unahim]

DNI is a direct connection, and honestly unless your grenades are connected to you by a wire, I don't think you have a DNI to it.

That's incorrect. It just means your gear is connected to your brain, but it can be wireless.

A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to
electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim
module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR
in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an
image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or
having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if
you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a
sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and
taste your AR experience.

So yes, when using a DNI your grenades need to have wireless active, but you don't need wireless active on your grenade launcher to make them explode wirelessly, so you can throw Wireless ones, too. If you don't have a DNI, you can only detonate wireless grenades with a grenade launcher.

[sylanna]

But DNI seems to be always better, because I can trigger the grenade with a free action. If I don't have it I will have to wait till my next action phase until I use a simple action for it.

So deckers without DNI will also need to wait?

So even if he already got a mark on my grenade and delayed his action, he can't trigger it as soon as it is 5m away from my launcher, because he has to wait. Meanwhile I detonate it with a simple action. Did I get that right?

[Unahim]

But DNI seems to be always better, because I can trigger the grenade with a free action. If I don't have it I will have to wait till my next action phase until I use a simple action for it.

So deckers without DNI will also need to wait?

So even if he already got a mark on my grenade and delayed his action, he can't trigger it as soon as it is 5m away from my launcher, because he has to wait. Meanwhile I detonate it with a simple action. Did I get that right?

A Decker without a DNI? That seems extremely unlikely. A datajack gives you a DNI (it probably gives off a wireless signal itself, or is plugged into the cyberdeck) and every Decker has one of those; however, many of us believe the grenade launcher grenades are not wireless until they are primed at 5 meters (and why would they be, right?) so the Decker would be unable to get a mark on the grenade before it is fired. Also, why couldn't you use your first simple action to shoot the grenade, and your second to detonate it in the same IP?

[sylanna]

Because it says "Without a DNI the attacker must use the Change Linked Device Mode Simple Action in their next or any of their subsequent Action Phases to detonate the projectile[...]" on page 182.

[Unahim]

Which is an odd rule, since any of my allies could blow up the grenade for me if they've got permission. Still, the enemy hacker won't be able to hack a mark on it -and- detonate it before you detonate it.