[Chance359]

I play street sams or sam/ ____ type characters so that's who I focus on.  I had not looked at how the prices of vehicles had gone up (did notice the VCR price jump though) or also cost jump in decks.  Based on the discussions recently had on here, I'm in agreement that for even a standard power game, the problem isnt the prices a certain type of gear (ware in this case), its how much money you start with. 

[Mirikon]

If you need a helicopter with passenger space, why are you buying one instead of stealing it? I mean, sure, having a helicopter makes getting across the sprawl and avoiding traffic (or getting out to that ship you're robbing) easy, but people forget that you have to store these things someplace! And it is a lot harder to hide a helicopter than it is a van. Either you're at an airport, in which case there's a lot of people seeing you coming and going, or at least sensors tracking your comings and goings, or you're out in the Barrens, and having a helicopter makes people think that you probably have a lot of toys worth nuyen that they can take off your cold, dead corpse. Or, if you seem too dangerous, they may sell that info to whoever is looking for you in return for getting soycaf and stuffers for the next couple weeks.

Personally, I've tried making techomancers, mages, mystic adepts, a face, and a street samurai under the new priority system, and while I was hamstrung in many areas due to the priority system, the amount of nuyen I had wasn't an issue at anything except the lowest priorities.

[All4BigGuns]

For the first I'd argue that if you want to come out of chargen with a helicopter that lets you transport a minor drone army by yourself, you likely are playing a higher power level than the normal campaign would have, and you need to discuss changing Priority values with your GM.

There is nothing "overpowering" about having a helicopter. If you think it is, then the problem lies with you.

For the second I'd argue that the team should join in on paying for the thing, even if at lower amounts than you, and that anyone who's too poor to do so at chargen had better pay you part of their mission share for whenever that chopper is required.

No. It should be completely feasible to build such a character on the premise that they have never had any contact with the rest of the team prior.

[Mirikon]

And just because something is out there, doesn't mean you should automatically be able to afford it at chargen.

[Crunch]

Have you considered just taking a contact who owns a helicopter and paying a rental fee when you need to use it Guns?

[Mirikon]

Have you considered just taking a contact who owns a helicopter and paying a rental fee when you need to use it Guns?

Or, y'know, stealing/renting one as part of the legwork for the run. Sometimes the best vehicles are the ones that have absolutely no connection to you.

[Crunch]

No. It should be completely feasible to build such a character on the premise that they have never had any contact with the rest of the team prior.

Do you have a reason that it should be?

[Michael Chandra]

I specifically stated a helicopter that lets you transport a drone army by yourself, and didn't call it overpowering, simply more fitting of a higher power level campaign. If you disagree with it, that's fine, if you actually think I'm not allowed to have a different opinion of yours, that's silly, but if you misrepresent my words again I'll assume it's deliberate and that you're looking for a strawman. Please, target what I write exactly, not a way you can twist it.

And no, I don't consider anything wrong with having a helicopter. If someone wanted to start play with a pair of armed Northrup Wasps I'd check if it works with the campaign I have in mind and ask the player what he intends with them, to make sure he doesn't have strange expectations. But I don't consider it wrong for him to have a few cheap helicopters, nor would it be that out of place in a campaign that tends to be in the open. Of course that's a bit different from an 18-seat heavy cargo helicopter used as gunship that you want to pay for by yourself.

[All4BigGuns]

No. It should be completely feasible to build such a character on the premise that they have never had any contact with the rest of the team prior.

Do you have a reason that it should be?

It should be quite possible to build a character that functioned exactly as envisioned before they ever met the current team.

Not to mention that if all (or even two) characters put resources into something, it can cause problems should the team separate.

Have you considered just taking a contact who owns a helicopter and paying a rental fee when you need to use it Guns?

Then it would not belong to the character. This would likely mean that not only would it not be accessible every time you need it, but that the contact would likely be the one actually flying it (at which point, why have a Rigger character in the first place).

...Of course that's a bit different from an 18-seat heavy cargo helicopter...

Then perhaps they should have thought of that and not made the 18 seat one the cheapest one that has more than 1. Only having 1 seat defeats the entire purpose of being used for transport.

[Crunch]

It should be quite possible to build a character that functioned exactly as envisioned before they ever met the current team.

So if my character concept required that I own a missile cruiser with a full crew I should get it? How about a Thunderbird? Is there any limit or just "I want" "ok here."

[All4BigGuns]

It should be quite possible to build a character that functioned exactly as envisioned before they ever met the current team.

So if my character concept required that I own a missile cruiser with a full crew I should get it? How about a Thunderbird? Is there any limit or just "I want" "ok here."

So now you try taking things into the realm of the utterly ridiculous? There's a big difference between having a helicopter with more than one seat from generation and having a freaking T-Bird.

[Michael Chandra]

I assume that once we get Rigger 5 we can add more space, and in all fairness it should be easy to get a GM to let you mod one using SR4 rules for now. But the question remains: Why do you need a helicopter that transports others? How often would you use it, and can't you just steal or hire it instead, or borrow it as a favor? Are there not more sufficient, cheaper, transport systems available?

[Crunch]

No, I'm just pointing out that "because I want to have it" isn't really a reason.

[Michael Chandra]

I assume he wants a character who can transport an entire team by air, not just a character who "wants something expensive".

[Crunch]

I understand what he wants. I don't even have a problem with a GM making a special call and saying "ok for my game you'll need to have a helo. here." I just don't think it's a blanket imperative that the rules give characters everything they could ever want right now.