[Reaver]

(Note:  along similar lines?  always thought some post-apocalyptic future where vampires have nations and keep humans as livestock would be cool.  But the livestock would be bred to be, like, super-retarded, and the vampires would trade more or less respectfully with border human nations with high-functioning humans in them.  And the vamps would really not vamp out and get all villain-y.  And so on).

Vampires. Ug. Used to be cool, then a crappy writer gave us emo sparkling sissyboy vampires....

At least vampires in SR (IMO) are still nasty, cool, and down right evil! They consume your essence, you very soul... Awesome.

As for f**ked up nations, Amazionia kinda fits your bill. A nation of sentient ghouls, that need human flesh to survive... And the math makes for some highly suspicious "cattle" practices to maintain their population, let alone grow....

[GiraffeShaman]

(Note:  along similar lines?  always thought some post-apocalyptic future where vampires have nations and keep humans as livestock would be cool.  But the livestock would be bred to be, like, super-retarded, and the vampires would trade more or less respectfully with border human nations with high-functioning humans in them.  And the vamps would really not vamp out and get all villain-y.  And so on).

The vampires in the RIFTS rpg did that. Huge herds of Human cattle.

One of the major things Logic effects is mental illusions and manipulations, making Trolls easier prey for mental control type spells.

[GiraffeShaman]

As for f**ked up nations, Amazionia kinda fits your bill. A nation of sentient ghouls, that need human flesh to survive... And the math makes for some highly suspicious "cattle" practices to maintain their population, let alone grow....

That's Asamando in West Africa that is the ghoul nation. Amazonia is eco shamans and a Feathered Serpent.

[Reaver]

As for f**ked up nations, Amazionia kinda fits your bill. A nation of sentient ghouls, that need human flesh to survive... And the math makes for some highly suspicious "cattle" practices to maintain their population, let alone grow....

That's Asamando in West Africa that is the ghoul nation. Amazonia is eco shamans and a Feathered Serpent.

Errrrrr....
Um....
Oops?

The long necked shaman is correct. Asamando is the ghoul nation...

As for Rifts.... Interesting idea but totally broken.

[benedictmercury]

Hey--great conversation, people. Useful and intriguing. Tough subject, well-fought.

I'll let you know if Logic 6 runs amok. Any last takers on why extra expense for 6 is 'as racist' as a cap at 5? (quotes to concede that the cap being racist is inconclusive)

[benedictmercury]

Mis-sent

Giraffe, that is just the kind of mechanic that makes me cringe. 'Hungarr smash--mrr?? Twinkie plate float before Hungarr? Om nom nom...'. Hate it. Maybe my race alarm is just intermingling with my cliche alarm.

So maybe this is for PM or another thread, but: always was curious about Rifts. Broken because Palladium is? That system never seemed strong. Cool setting, though. Are they out of bidness?

[GiraffeShaman]

Giraffe, that is just the kind of mechanic that makes me cringe. 'Hungarr smash--mrr?? Twinkie plate float before Hungarr? Om nom nom...'. Hate it. Maybe my race alarm is just intermingling with my cliche alarm.
So maybe this is for PM or another thread, but: always was curious about Rifts. Broken because Palladium is? That system never seemed strong. Cool setting, though. Are they out of bidness?

Apparently they are not out of business. I was surprised, I figured they'd have been crushed under the weight of all the overpowered sourcebooks by now.

As for the trolls, all I can tell you is..."Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

[CanRay]

Vampires. Ug. Used to be cool, then a crappy writer gave us emo sparkling sissyboy vampires....

Mungo makz da Whampyrez sparklieez.

"Who gave you White Phosphorous, Mungo?"

Iz ordorz itz on da Mahtrickz!  Bhuiez itt atz da Bhigg Boxxorz Store, getz da discount!

[Reaver]

Hmmm,

I thought All4 had made a post.... But it seems to be gone.

[shinryu]

there are some potentially justifiable biological reasons for trolls to be dumber; while this was probably not the most politically correct way to put it, an old professor of mine said that he saw a lot of people come in to clinic with "funny-looking kid syndrome" before they had an official diagnosis of a specific mental disability for a child, because a lot of very severe mental disabilities from developmental defects are associated with defects that result in different physical development. down's syndrome is the obvious example of this, but there's any number of syndromes where the developmental problems that affect mental ability also affect the development of many other organs. developmental regulation is tightly interlinked, and a lot of proteins involved pull multiple roles in multiple different cell types.

so there's every possibility that the metagenes responsible for goblinization are also linked to mental development in such a way that it's often stunted relative to human norm or human potential. especially given the weird ways these genes configure in three-dimensional space, it's entirely possible that if you're a troll that you just don't get the same doses of critical brain-development juices that you would if you weren't.

it's also worth mentioning that many orks and trolls goblinize in their teen years, which are crucial years for some of the brain development required for things like impulse control and critical thinking to develop correctly. the human brain actually doesn't finish myelinating some of the longer nerve tracts until sometime in your twenties. between the sudden upswing in metabolic demands that turning into a 400 pound troll implies and the possibility of other related genetic events, it's entirely plausible that brain development might be one of the things that goblinization messes up relative to elves and dwarves and humans, who are generally who they are from birth and don't nearly go through the same amount of bodily change as either of the goblinized subspecies.

or goblinization is really herpes and it hangs out in the nervous system and screws things up. which would explain a lot.

[Crunch]

Apparently they are not out of business. I was surprised, I figured they'd have been crushed under the weight of all the overpowered sourcebooks by now.

Believe it or not Palladium is one of the very few game companies to survive from the 80s without getting sold, bought out or going out of business. As far as I can tell it's them, Steve Jackson Games and Games Workshop.

[calaen]

yeah, Palladium is doing alright.  They had a really rough spot a couple years back with an embezzler, but they recovered from it reasonably well.

[All4BigGuns]

yeah, Palladium is doing alright.  They had a really rough spot a couple years back with an embezzler, but they recovered from it reasonably well.

Due in large part to fans who are so diehard and loyal that they donated money to help keep them around. It's rather telling, at least to me, about the quality of a company and the game(s) they produce that there is that much loyalty to them.

[Crunch]

Brilliant ideas, desperately in need of a second edition.

[calaen]

They did a second edition, but the general result was power creep within the game system itself - don't get me wrong, some of it was quite necessary... the thing is, they're still in the process of updating all their material (that have a ridiculous number of splat books, I can't think of any system with more) and I don't see it ever getting done.  The real weaknesses of the Palladium system lay in the tendency of the combat system to bog down quite a bit, and in the fact that you have two grades of enemy to place your players against, maybe three.  The first grade is 'low end' the second grade is 'a group of custom rolled characters you as the GM made, during a process that was, for each, slightly more complicated than doing your own taxes' and last but not least, there is the 'you hate your players and wish to see them cry' grade of enemy.