[DigitalZombie]

The rulebook has a nice section (page 375\376) on how to calculate run rewards. But Im confused on how they are meant to be implemented in-game. I get the impression that its impossible for the runners to know what they will be getting paid, until after the run.
Do the runners just get 3k (plus 100 per net hit on negotiation) and then after the run they have to convince the Johnson that, yes, they were indeed outnumbered 3 to one against 12 red samurai barghests summoning atleast 3 different spirits against them. Or how would you play it?

I would personally just eyeball the run. Say I know they will face the boss with a dicepool of 13 (+3) and atleast 6 critters (+1) and at some point they will have to engage alot og goons getting outnumbered 3 to 1 (+1). the cash reward fo that run would be = (3000+100 per net negotiation hit )times 5 so the runners would get around 15k (depending on how good the troll face is) and the Johnson is willing to throw in another 3k if it goes all sneaky like.

But what happens if the runners caught the boss unaware and he was forced to use his secondary weapon (dicepool 11) (say the technomancer bricks his primary weapon before combat) the boss is now suddenly only a plus 2 modifier. The runners then come up with a smart way to split the large goon squad by creating a big diversion, suddenly the runners arent outnumbered 3 to 1. The final calculation and "correct" would then be = (3000+100 per net hit on negotiation) times 3,  in other words around 9k per runner. (the Johnson wont give them the sneaky bonus, as their goon diversion was blowing up an orphenage)

How would you play it?

[Michael Chandra]

Honestly, I seriously dislike the whole "if you deal with the game in a smarter way, you should get paid less". Also, it doesn't work. The Johnson gives you an offer in advance. Very VERY rare is the Johnson who's willing to pay danger money based on a run going to hell. And no runner would allow for the Johnson to go "well, since you guys had it way easier than I expected, I'm not paying you in full". Of course a Johnson can betray you, but that's part of the game.

Still, you could make the Johnson hardball them and talk about danger money depending on how big the opposition is, if they negotiate it well. Make the team record the events and report to the Johnson. Who knows, if they can prove they did it smart but could have been in real trouble, they can pressure him into acknowledging they should get paid for it anyway. Make it part of runs where the Johnson's not entirely sure what's waiting but downplays the danger, then make the runners put pressure on him to pay more if drek hits the fan.

[Crunch]

You pay for the run on worst case terms. If you design it with a 20 DP bruiser you pay the runners as if he's there. If they manage to evade him or take him down easy more power to him. Sure the Johnson should play hardball, but the GM shouldn't.

The exception to this would be an unforseen complication that the runners brought on themselves, like a lonestar HRT team. The runners shouldn't get paid for trouble they get themselves into.

[DigitalZombie]

I completely agree with both of you. But I do find it odd how the rulebook calculates it. It even gave an example\ If the runners face a decker with 12 dice in hacking they would get paid 12k for him, if the decker didnt hack in the encounter they would be paid less (like if he was shooting at them instead) that just seems so darn odd

I will eyeball the encounter and offer the players 15k for the run in my first post.

[Magnaric]

The thing about that that bothers me is if you look at it from the rules perspective, money for a completed run is meant to cover the cost of resupplying/healing/recovering, plus maybe some extra if you do well. Okay fine, great. However, from a flavour/roleplay perspective that's just dumb.

Any intelligent Mr Johnson knows that if the runners happen to pull off a job quickly and easily(I.E. easier than expected), and he tries to pay them LESS for their success, he either risks word getting out about his sketchiness and good luck finding runners next time, or he encourages runs to get more messy, so the team can get paid more. Either one is a bad option.

More likely he'd be encouraged to offer hazard pay if his intel was either inaccurate or didn't cover everything, or to pay based on the professionalism and efficiency of the team. So if a team was more skilled or performed at a higher level than anticipated, why wouldn't the Mr Johnson pay them an incentive to keep them operating on that same level? Likewise, if they completely fuck things up and cause royal drek to hit the fan, the team might very well get a reduced payout(say if Mr Johnson's backers now had to do damage control), or be lucky to find continued work from him/her at all.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

[GiraffeShaman]

I don't even worry about pay per shadowrun. I worry about total income per month minus expenses. Once I have a number I know I want them to have, I let wealth trickle out, either through loot, or run payments. Only at that point do I actually set actual shadowrun payments and I do so with just a quick eyeball at what they will likely be facing.

It doesn't  matter if I make a bad pay call because I can always balance it later. What matters is I have a good general idea of what kind of overall wealth is hitting the party coffers (After expenses) and what the various characters are saving towards. (Big purchases only, I don't waste my time worrying about small ones)

[Reaver]

First you start with a plan:

That plan becomes the run.. and included in that plan is the security for that run. IF your of attack that you (as the GM!) decide is the best choice (and the Johnson should share some of this!) put them up against "2 spirits, 6 security r4 guards, 2 hellhounds, and a puppy, that is what you pay them for!!

If they go off the wall, and attract everything from KE to federal officers to the national guard, that's their own damn fault!

[a very angery werefox]

once in my game the players highjacked a apc with there mark in it. turned out they were lied to and end up kidnaping a member of the bush fammily and they had to fight off part of the C.A.S army. they got there pay becus the jonhson pland it to happen and it scared the bushs outa disputed oil land . but when the face tryed to get everone 1k per confirmed kill it got messy.

[Dangersaurus]

This will be my first SR campaign, but I'm planning to lowball it based on the opposition and difficulty of the job, using the optional* run rewards in the book. The PCs will get some percentage of that upfront, subject to negotiation.

After the run, I'll calculate the true numbers based on the events of the run using the reward system. If it comes up lower, no change. If it's higher they get the difference between the original quote and the new reward as a bonus (minus any advance of course).

Once I get a handle on the game though, I'll probably stop using the reward system and just us GM Fiat, as they suggest in the book.


* Despite the sidebar saying there will be optional rules presented throughout the book, the only ones that jumped out at me were the reward system and the mook rules. Are there others I missed?

[sylanna]

I also think, that the reward should be calculated around the potential danger level of a mission. Avoided the biggest dangers and fulfilled the mission? Well done.

The opposing DP factor might be broken though. That's because Armor+Body is a DP too.

[Michael Chandra]

The opposing DP factor might be broken though. That's because Armor+Body is a DP too.

It's not an opposing dicepool. The rules specify it must be a Skill+Attribute pool that directly opposes the players, this also means that dodgepools don't count.

[sylanna]

Thanks, looks like I missed that passage multiple times. Being able to properly read, helps a lot><

[Michael Chandra]

As non-native speaker with a criminal mind who tends to force his powergamer side to play nice, I tend to look at such minor details with a fine comb. Still miss a lot of them though.

[All4BigGuns]

Specifying "directly opposing" like that makes it difficult to gauge the pay before the run is attempted, and even without that it would punish good thinking of good plans if the highest dice pool was a combat pool of a guard and the plan allowed them to get in and get out without a hiccup.

Better to just have it be the "highest non-reactionary dice pool" that an NPC that will be present at the location has (to avoid punishing good plans).

[Michael Chandra]

By the way, completely forgot but:

I also think, that the reward should be calculated around the potential danger level of a mission. Avoided the biggest dangers and fulfilled the mission? Well done.

I completely agree with that. If you plan complications and they happen, they can nag the Johnson for extra money, but if they manage to avoid things by being smart, that is Shadowrun and deserves to be praised.