[Zar]

I would think the name Ingram SMARTGUN would push it over the edge itself.

[WhiskeyHammer]

Erm, so the ones that aren't mentioned as being external are, by process of elimination, internal? Your reasoning holds no grounds. And if you want to play Occam's Razor with me: What's more likely, that they forgot the word "internal" a few times, or that they assumed everyone would figure out that "by process of elimination" (which I already discredited) it's external? Yeah, pretty sure the "We forgot." one is -far- more likely.

And then that still doesn't address the fact that mods that come with the gun don't take up any mod spaces, but an external smartgun takes up a slot. An internal one does not.

The reasoning is fairly straightforward inductive reasoning. But I'll break it down Barney style anyway:

• There are only two types of smartgun systems listed in the book: external and internal. For our purposes a system cannot be both internal and external. Thus if a system is external it cannot be internal and vise versa.
• Most of the firearms with smartgun systems are not specified, from this we may gather that there is a default state which renders specifying the type of system un-necessary.
• So far we're on the same page: there are mutually exclusive states of internal and external and there is a "default" state
• The key observation here is that some guns are specifically stated as having internal smartgun systems. If the default state were in fact internal then explicitly stating those guns as being internal would be un-necessary (and redundant). This leads to the conclusion that the default state is in fact external -  which is to say that, specifying some guns as specifically internal only makes sense in the context of external default state.

The "we forgot" explanation requires a string of mistakes and questionable logic on the part of the designers, the alternative however fits the existing information and requires no such suspension of faith in the designers. Thats not Occam's Razor. That's basic reasoning: "fits text vs. doesnt fit text" & "designers messed up vs. designers knew what they were doing"; which ones are usually used when interpreting rule books?

The only valid counter-point presented is the bit about included mods not taking up space. Though I would argue that like the Ares Alpha's grenade launcher or the scope mods on some guns, an "included" mod can sit on the outside of a gun and still not take up mod space.

[Crunch]

]

• Most of the firearms with smartgun systems are not specified, from this we may gather that there is a default state which renders specifying the type of system un-necessary.

The idea that there is a default state and that descriptions would only occur if the described conditions differed from the default is neither proven in your statement, nor provable given what we know.

it's an assumption that you're using as evidence.

[ZeConster]

The "we forgot" explanation requires a string of mistakes and questionable logic on the part of the designers, the alternative however fits the existing information and requires no such suspension of faith in the designers. Thats not Occam's Razor. That's basic reasoning: "fits text vs. doesnt fit text" & "designers messed up vs. designers knew what they were doing"; which ones are usually used when interpreting rule books?

The only valid counter-point presented is the bit about included mods not taking up space. Though I would argue that like the Ares Alpha's grenade launcher or the scope mods on some guns, an "included" mod can sit on the outside of a gun and still not take up mod space.

You're misrepresenting the two possibilities. The edition was apparently rushed somewhat so it'd come out in time for the big conventions, and there's plenty of vagueness, contradicting bits, and "a bit of rules has already been mentioned once, there's not really a need to rehash it on the next page" (quick example: page 417 says Hold-outs don't have mounts, which means non-mount accessories are still okay, while page 425 says Hold-outs "can't take accessories") - all things considered, it is in no way a stretch to assume the writers simply didn't express themselves clearly.

[SoulGambit]

WhiskeyHammer: Go find out how Riggers work using only the book with no FAQ/Forums.

+1 for Internal.

[Xenon]

weapons that list that they come with smartlink have an internal smartlink. weapons that list that they come with a laser sight have an internal laser sight. weapons that list that they come with a silencer or sound suppressor come with an internal silencer or sound suppressor. if you want an external accessory then you can buy that one the side.

yes, a few guns probably even state the obvious that the smartgun is indeed internal. Some guns probably state that the smartgun is instead built-in, which is the same thing as internal. this does not in any way shape or form make the rest external by elimination. this only mean that some guns have redundant fluff information that the other guns does not have. they didn't need to state that the smartgun is internal and they could state that the smartgun is internal on all other weapons - but that would not be the first example where the author(s) don't copy paste the same phrase.

i will be very surprised if you can find a weapon that include a smartgun that explict state that it is an external smartgun. and if the smartgun is external then it should explicit state if it take the top or the underbarrel mount (or are you suggesting that people that buy the pistol are expected to do an armorer + logic (4, 1 hour) extended test to attach it themselves??). If you can point us to any gun that come with an external smartgun then you might have a case to start argue... but until then, good luck mate.



+1 for internal.