[sylanna]

Hello!

A gas mask seems to be useless against tear gas, because it can't prevent the gas from "touching" you. Even if you don't inhale it, you can't decrease the damage with the mask. A respirator on the other hand gives you up to 6 extra dice for your defense test. Chemical protection + respirator seems to be much better than chemical protection + gas mask. Am I missing something?

[firebug]

That is something I've encountered, too...  A gas mask only protects against one toxin (Nausea Gas) and doesn't do anything against the others with Inhalation vector, because they also have Contact.  Honestly, putting Inhalation on them is redundant.  There's no situation where you'd be breathing something but it wouldn't be touching you.  That's not how breathing works.

This sounds like something that needs official errata.

[Palladion]

Unfortunately, the only immunity you can get for Inhalation AND Contact toxins is with a Chemical Seal, which is only available on Full Body Armor and Hazmat Suit. However, a combination of Respirator and Chemical Protection, you would get defense bonuses. As a GM, I would give the lowest of the two ratings (or just the Chemical Protection rating if the gas mask is used) as bonus to the Toxin Resistance Test.

It is possible to defend, just takes a little more work and effort.

[ZeConster]

The only problem with that is Chemical protection protects against both Contact and Inhalation vectors, according to the Toxins chapte- and according to the "Armor modifications" section, it only protects against contact-vector. What the heck.

[JackVII]

That part probably could use errata. Not sure how the impregnable coating on your jacket is supposed to prevent inhalation. Are you assumed to have stuck your head inside your jacket and somehow created a semi-airtight seal, LOL?

[firebug]

Unfortunately, the only immunity you can get for Inhalation AND Contact toxins is with a Chemical Seal, which is only available on Full Body Armor and Hazmat Suit. However, a combination of Respirator and Chemical Protection, you would get defense bonuses. As a GM, I would give the lowest of the two ratings (or just the Chemical Protection rating if the gas mask is used) as bonus to the Toxin Resistance Test.

It is possible to defend, just takes a little more work and effort.

Actually, more than just the Full Body Armor and Hazmat Suit can have Chemical Seal.  Full Body Armor has its own Chemical Seal listed under it, then the Armor Mods section lists a separate modification that presumably can be put on just any "full body armor", not just the armor with that name.  By the looks of it though, the only one you could put it on would be the Chameleon Suit, since that explicitly covers your whole body.

[Michael Chandra]

I recall some SR4 debates on "wth does a gas mask even do vs contact+inhalation toxins?" I asked a question in the FAQ on it a month ago, so I hope that we one day get an official answer.

[Mithlas]

I understand that contact vector toxins are going to have some effect, but the entire point of a gas mask is to stop inhalation vector toxins - period . If the book doesn't say it, I would err on it eliminating anything inhalation based and consider whatever contact vector effects to be diminished because the toxin can't get at the most sensitive bits (your eyes and mucus membranes) that they normally target...depending on the other protection worn, of course.

[Xzylvador]

A sensible GM will rule that the contact vector for those gasses only applies on eye contact. (And nose, but then you'd probably be breathing too.)
SR4 has the same error. The rule makes as little sense as the fact that it's still there after so many books and years, but well... *shrug*
Talk to your GM. RAW is, unfortunately, clear but also wrong and stupid.

[Palladion]

A sensible GM will rule that the contact vector for those gasses only applies on eye contact. (And nose, but then you'd probably be breathing too.)
SR4 has the same error. The rule makes as little sense as the fact that it's still there after so many books and years, but well... *shrug*
Talk to your GM. RAW is, unfortunately, clear but also wrong and stupid.

SR5 410, "Someone dosed with pepper punch feels an intense burning on any affected skin..."

That sounds like a Contact and Inhalation toxin. Block the breathing, it still burns the skin. 2075 toxins are likely more effective than 2013 toxins, not less.

[Angelone]

Pepperpunch is more like mace. Tear gas really doesn't burn on skin contact unless it's a very very high concentration.

[Xzylvador]

A sensible GM will rule that the contact vector for those gasses only applies on eye contact. (And nose, but then you'd probably be breathing too.)
SR4 has the same error. The rule makes as little sense as the fact that it's still there after so many books and years, but well... *shrug*
Talk to your GM. RAW is, unfortunately, clear but also wrong and stupid.

SR5 410, "Someone dosed with pepper punch feels an intense burning on any affected skin..."

That sounds like a Contact and Inhalation toxin. Block the breathing, it still burns the skin. 2075 toxins are likely more effective than 2013 toxins, not less.

What Angelone.
I'd add, though, that the contact effect is much, much less severe than the inhalation effect.
A burning of the skin compared vs. being unable to breathe and the feeling like your eyes or lungs are on fire.
Maybe toxins should have different effects for the different contact vectors?
Eg. Contact: A -2 to actions or something because of burning sensation (note that a -2 modifer =6 boxes of damage or being halway to death).
Inhalation: Power X Stun damage/nausea/disorientation because of the feeling of suffucation, lungs on fire, uncontrolable caughing and vomiting, etc.

[Palladion]

Pepperpunch is more like mace. Tear gas really doesn't burn on skin contact unless it's a very very high concentration.

That is not the case with Shadowrun toxins, which is why they are clearly labeled with Inhalation AND Contact. Throw away any preconceptions of their real world analogues and just imagine a toxin that hurts just as bad on your skin (and then forcibly absorbed into your bloodstream) as it is in your lungs. You are not dealing with real world pepper spray and tear gas, but a 60+ year evolution of chemical warfare.

[SoulGambit]

What? Any sensible interpretation of RAI and probably RAW is that a poison is only used as one vector at a time. But if you need any other justification...

Gas Mask protects against all Inhalation Poison
Tear Gas is Inhalation AND Contact
Therefore, Gas Mask protects against Tear Gas.

Think of it in MtG terms.
Card X deals 2 damage against all Goblins
Bob is a Goblin AND a Vampire
Therefore, Bob receives 2 damage.

Unless there's an "or" floating around somewhere I missed (possible) Tear Gas has the "Inhalation" tag. It doesn't matter what other tags it may or may not have--the Gas Mask doesn't ask about them. If there is an or that I missed, unless it is worded very carefully to the opposite, i'd say that it also supports a poison being only one thing at a time. I don't think there's any precedence for poison cycling through its various tags until it finds which one you're most vulnerable to. Now sure, does this produce some oddities? Yes. About as many as the idea that a poison is all of its tags at once and the gas mask does nothing.

[Michael Chandra]

A GM could rule it protects fully, not at all or partially. I like the idea of a gas mask halving the Power myself, Chemical Protection applying afterwards, whereas a Respirator would simply stack with Chemical Protection.

Right now we got a few types of Toxins. We got exactly 1 Inhalation, multiple Contact+Inhalation, no Contact. And there is no way to protect you against Contact that doesn't protect against Inhalation at the same time. This means Gas Masks and Respirators are entirely worthless if it offers no protection against C+I attacks.