[Tassyr]

So yeah, the title on this one's pretty simple. I've got some gear (Glasses, Contacts, Earbuds) that still have open slots, but I couldn't afford to finish upgrading them the way I wanted in chargen (Due to cost or Availability level.)

Since the addons just have 'Increases availability by x" and no instructions on adding after the fact- is this even possible?

[Tassyr]

Well, on the one hand, I feel better because I didn't miss something obvious.

... On the other I gotta pester my GM into seeing this. Crud. XD

[Michael Chandra]

Armor in itself cannot be upgraded afterwards and couldn't in SR4 either, there also were no rules regarding upgrading audio and vision enhancements later on. It's also debatable whether it'd be possible, since there's the possibility that these things have to be hardwired into the electronics. So it's pretty much a GM call.

Of course given how you're pretty much avoiding the Availability Level by doing it 1 upgrade at a time, I'd likely disallow it as GM myself.

[DigitalZombie]

Another solution would be to make a compromise between the 2. (not allowing it and making it happen automagically). By adding the availability of the planned upgrade to the current availability of the owned item. Thereby making it harder and harder to find those that can provide the increasingly difficult services.

But what about upgrading augmentations? It would be illogically to just pay the difference in plastic bone lacing and titanium bonelacing if a player wanted to upgrade that. But what about muscle augmentation bioware? wouldnt it be doable to just add more grown muscle mass to the character, thereby making him pay the difference between rating 3 and 4? or would they have to cut all those muscles out and put in a rating 4? or just add more toxin extractors to your liver instead of removing the previous just to put in twice as many?

[Michael Chandra]

You can't upgrade augmentations, you can only replace them.

[martinchaen]

DigitalZombie; that would be too easy

I'm in the same camp as you are; adding enhancements to items might make sense from a "real world" perspective (adding a scope to a rifle that has a proper mount should be no big deal at all, and the external smartgun system does have rules for aftermarket installation (Armorer + Logic (4, 1 hour) test)), but I'd say game balance is probably the reason for why you can't add most things after purchase.

Take Full Body Armor, for instance. The basic suit is 14R and is available once the game starts, just not during character creation unless you're using Prime rules, but adding environmental adaptation and a chemical seal to it (which doesn't use capacity so it would still have 15 cap for enhancements) adds 3 and 6 availability respectively. As Michael points out, you would be able to "get around" the availability cap, especially for lower end games, by purchasing one piece at a time and adding on to the base, instead of trying to get a hold of what should be an extremely rare piece of gear (Avail 23 is nothing to scoff at, even with well connected fixers).

Also, with game mechanics in mind, where would you draw the line; "You can upgrade gear A but not gear B" would add complexity to an already complex game system. I completely agree that you SHOULD be able to upgrade certain augs, but from a game system point of view I'd say it's either all or none, and then you handwave the solution. 

[DigitalZombie]

@martinchaen Ooh I think you misunderstood my post. Im not saying one should circumvent the availability.
Example: player has a 14R full body armour, he later on finds out he wants to add enviromental adaption (availability +3) he would begin pulling strings to see if he can find someone with the willingness and ability to add that to a full body armour doing a roll against availability 17R (14R+3). After a few runs he wants to add a chemical seal +6 availability. Now he has to roll against 23 (14+3+6) meaning the former craftsmen might not have enough know-how/cabability to handle that kind of complexity and he would fail the roll, being forced to try again later.

The problem with not having the ability to upgrade existing equipment (be it augmentation, gear or foci) is that often players that plan ahead will come out stronger in the long run than other players. For instance an archetype that would prefer a high end commlink could buy one at rating 6, while another player might go for a rating 1 (and totally trust his matrix support team mate) but would be able to buy a rating 7 after a very limited amount of time, thereby being "ahead" of the archetype that needed a good commlink to begin with. (unless of course they just switch links).

If a player wanted to play a dexterous ninja like type he could only get muscle toner 2, but another guy could easily wait several runs before obtaining a rating 4, and therefore "be ahead".

Note:Im not arguing that one should be able to upgrade a rating 6 link to 7 by paying the difference. But players often wants whats best, but that tends to boil down to this: if some gear is seen as essential for the character then that character tends to have the next best thing (the best have too high availability) while on the other hand a character that didnt put alot of emphasis on fancy contact lenses because it wasnt essential for him at character creation, tends to have them after a few runs, as availability then isnt "that big" an issue.

[Michael Chandra]

In SR4, Core had rules for upgrading hardware. Those may be in the SR5 Matrix book one day, or Rigger 5.

[martinchaen]

I like that idea, DigitalZombie: instead of searching for the item itself, the avail roll would represent the search for someone to deliver and install the item.

And yes, planning ahead can definitely put one player at a sort of advantage from a game perspective. To me, that's kind of fair, because that player will invest time and energy into building his or her character, so in one way that pays off (planning what gear to get later, getting cost effective gear at chargen, deciding what to spend karma on so as to be most effective, etc).

I would love the ability to upgrade gear (my street Sam has an implanted commlink for DNI, and paying the difference between the Transys Avalon and the Fairlight Excalibur would be awesome :-), though I suspect you more meant rated items, correct?), so I'll keep hoping it'll appear in future editions.

In the mean time, the armorer check for the smartgun seems like a viable substitution for gear at least, coupled with your proposed modified avail check, at least as a house rule.

[Tagami]

You can't upgrade augmentations, you can only replace them.

Muscle Toner/ Augmentation and Orthoskin cannot be replaced unless you replace the tissue as a whole with cloned muscle/skin (if we go by their description, they are incorporated into the host's muscle and skin structure at a very diffuse level).
Again, going from their description, I don't see any reason not to allow for upgrades.
If the upgrade is the same grade, I'd charge the player the difference + hospitalization costs for at least 2 months each time they upgraded.
If there is a rule to prevent that please point it out to me, cause I intend to have my players (all new to SR) run a street level campaign so as to ease them into the life of a shadowrunner, so them upgrading in-game will be the rule, not the exception.

[Michael Chandra]

If the upgrade is the same grade, I'd charge the player the difference + hospitalization costs for at least 2 months each time they upgraded.

You can, but it'd be a houserule. There is no rule that allows upgrading augmentations. The only modifications and upgrading there is would be with cybernetics within cyberlimbs. You can 'upgrade' cybereyes and ears by putting enhancements into their Capacity, and 'upgrade' the enhancements of cyberlimbs, but there's nothing supporting upgrading augmentations themselves.

Then we got the section in the Missions FAQ: "Can I upgrade my bioware or cyberware?"

Answer: "Presuming that the item in question has not been damaged, you may sell back non-cultured bioware and cyberware for a flat 30 percent of its retail value (book price; taking into account alpha or beta mark-up, if any) when upgrading cyberware."

[Tassyr]

Then we got the section in the Missions FAQ: "Can I upgrade my bioware or cyberware?"

Answer: "Presuming that the item in question has not been damaged, you may sell back non-cultured bioware and cyberware for a flat 30 percent of its retail value (book price; taking into account alpha or beta mark-up, if any) when upgrading cyberware."

...is that all it says? Nothing about the mechanics?

[Michael Chandra]

It mentions a one-week recovery period after surgery.

[Xenon]

(plus the normal recovery time for installing the new augmentation)

Cybersurgery and recovery time p.451
Getting cyberware and bioware installed hurts. When you have an augmentation implanted (after character creation), your Physical and Stun Condition Monitors each take a number of boxes of damage equal to the item’s Essence Cost x 3 (but never into overflow). Most cyberclinics and body shops offer recovery rooms for patients to rest and heal up after cybersurgery, but beware the sterility and cleanliness of the less-reputable chop shops.

[farothel]

DigitalZombie; that would be too easy

I'm in the same camp as you are; adding enhancements to items might make sense from a "real world" perspective (adding a scope to a rifle that has a proper mount should be no big deal at all, and the external smartgun system does have rules for aftermarket installation (Armorer + Logic (4, 1 hour) test)), but I'd say game balance is probably the reason for why you can't add most things after purchase.

Take Full Body Armor, for instance. The basic suit is 14R and is available once the game starts, just not during character creation unless you're using Prime rules, but adding environmental adaptation and a chemical seal to it (which doesn't use capacity so it would still have 15 cap for enhancements) adds 3 and 6 availability respectively. As Michael points out, you would be able to "get around" the availability cap, especially for lower end games, by purchasing one piece at a time and adding on to the base, instead of trying to get a hold of what should be an extremely rare piece of gear (Avail 23 is nothing to scoff at, even with well connected fixers).

Also, with game mechanics in mind, where would you draw the line; "You can upgrade gear A but not gear B" would add complexity to an already complex game system. I completely agree that you SHOULD be able to upgrade certain augs, but from a game system point of view I'd say it's either all or none, and then you handwave the solution.

It is possible to have this type of modification done after char gen, simply by making the complete availability (23 in case of the example above) as the availability for finding someone who can actually do the modification.  If you buy something with modifications straight of the factory, they are incorporated during the fabrication process.  If you want to add for instance a chemical seal on a full body armour, this means they will have to add seals, an air tank, hoses and electronics to control all that.  It's not all that easy compared to doing all that in the factory.  So that will mean that you need someone who can do it, and he won't be able to do it in an hour or so.  So you will have to do a run without your fancy armour while it's being upgraded.  Are you willing to do so?

The same goes for mods on vehicles.  A lot of that can be done after chargen (example: putting on cameo paint is just a question of bringing the car in to someone who has it and knows how to put it on).

As for cybergear, that IMO has to be replaced.  you can't upgrade rating 2 cyber-eyes to rating 3 just by installing some mods.  You have to take the rating 2s out and put the new ones in.

For mods on weapons, it's easier.  Screwing up a new and improved scope won't take much time.  An internal smartgun system will take a bit longer, but you can use the system described above.