[JackVII]

In the Illusions Spells overview before the spells are listed, the last sentence of the Mana Illusion quality states:

Though mana-based illusions can be created on the astral plane, their magical auras give them away as illusions to anyone who makes a successful Assensing Test—illusions can’t fool Assensing and cannot be used to disguise or create auras.

Assensing is a Simple Test and normally requires 2 successes to determine the class of the spell. Even if the threshold is only 1, it could still be valuable if it requires a Simple Action to make the determination.

It's kind of weird that this only specifically applies to the astral plane. Wouldn't all illusion spells be assensable as such, even if cast on the Physical plane?

[Ren]

The wording surely seems to be restricting assensing to uncover mana-based illusions on the astral but i think it is done that way just to accentuate how it is almost impossible to create an effective illusion in astral. Mana-based illusions IMO can be uncovered by assensing as well if cast on the physical plane.

Physical illusions are a different matter though. Even if you sense the magical nature with assensing they still befuddle your senses unless you roll a successful resistance test.

[JackVII]

The wording surely seems to be restricting assensing to uncover mana-based illusions on the astral but i think it is done that way just to accentuate how it is almost impossible to create an effective illusion in astral. Mana-based illusions IMO can be uncovered by assensing as well if cast on the physical plane.

Personally, I think that interpretation goes a little far. It would really make Mana-based Illusions far too weak compared to Physical-based illusions on balance. They basically wouldn't work on Dual-natured creatures at all, even if cast on the physical plane. They already don't work on technology. I think if that were the case, the Drain differential should be much more than 1.

In any event, I guess the question still remains about whether it would take an action to assense for this purpose on the Astral plane. I'm okay with the thershold being 1, although I wonder what happens if a mage casts a Phantasm of a Mana Barrier on the Astral Plane?

[Ren]

Actually you can't create an illusion of a mana barrier on the astral, because it has an aura, and the mana illusions section explicitly states that you can't disguise or create auras. For the same reason, you neither can create an illusion of a living thing on the astral. This (and the description of most spells) make only a select few illusion spells usable in astral.

[JackVII]

Well, there still would be an aura (the Phantasm spell) and it would automatically be detected as a spell. Given the Assensing table, it would require 2 hits to determine what type of spell that aura was (Illusion or Manipulation). It's not disguising the aura as an assensing test is required to determine that information in any event since you don't automatically know what kind of spell it is without assensing. By my reading, what you couldn't do would be to create a Phantasm of a Spirit, as it would be immediately detected as such (without an assensing test) or use a Mask spell to disguise a focus as a reagent.

With that said, I was looking for a ruling from Reminder on the specific situation and I'm not sure we need to clutter up this thread with a (wide-ranging) rules discussion. Re-reading my initial question, I see that I didn't make that clear. My apologies.

Really, at this point, my main question is whether the spirits would need to make an assensing test to avoid the effects of the spell.

[Csjarrat]

guys, we still rolling?

[JackVII]

Hope so, I know Reminder's computer went tits up. I think he has limited access at the moment. I saw he was able to login briefly a day or two ago. Here's hoping!

[Ren]

Yeah, if i remember well, he had some problems with his laptop. I'm here and ready to go on anytime.

[Reminder]

All right, to summarize, ren shot at and hit the one closest to him. Pass ended. Crunch started pass 2 and tried to hit the one nearest him with rifle butt (not practical, but hes not here so tough) and didn't achieve much. Either ren or mlinzi is next, whoevers init is higher. Better post in the IC soon.

[Reminder]

To Jack, threshold if cast on astral is 2, but the test is free (doesn't require an action). If cast on the physical plane they don't get the free assensing test (they could still make one, with an action, but that would apply to a physical spell as well).

It's hard to make an illusion that works on the astral, since you cannot create an illusion of an aura.

[JackVII]

Well, if it is a test that requires no action, there's no real point in doing it considering they would get to basically save twice for free. I'm cool with it, hopefully the FAQ will answer it for sure at some point in the future because I don't think it is clear at all.

I'll go ahead and post, I believe I have Mutumbo edged by 1 point (Init: 20). Hopefully our combined attacks bring it down. Even with the Hardened Armor bit, I was kind of surprised it survived Mutumbo's attack, that was impressive. What kind of firearm are you using? A Ruger 101?

[Reminder]

is there a reason to cast on the astral instead of physical?

anyway the one near mutumbo is disrupted (still on mobile. couldnt get roller to work so i bought real dice finally)

[JackVII]

If I were able to cast it on the astral, I wouldn't have had to worry about the AOE affecting friendlies or the reckless spellcasting penalty. It isn't really a big deal (particularly with the spirit Mutumbo was fighting being disrupted - speaking of, I need to edit my post a bit to recognize that fact).

Now... if Frenchy's spirit is the only one standing, that makes things a bit interesting. Considering Frenchy did attack it and it is in melee, it should have some decent defense penalties. I think I like my odds (and hope Frenchy is an elusive adept if the odds turn against me).

[Reminder]

wait, i thought you cast at the one by mutumbo? that was the cause of the disruption, not his shot alone.

[Ren]

I shot with a Remington 950. And it is not really surprising if a strong spirit survived that kind of shot. They are pretty hardy against normal physical attacks. For example, if the spirit is Force 6, it rolls 11 dice to dodge my shot, let’s say 4 hits, so I have 3 net hits. Total damage is 15P with -4 AP. Now, with immunity to normal weapons, the spirit has a final armor of 8 (Force*2 – AP), which also gives it 4 automatic hits (half the armor rating), plus it rolls 18 dice for resistance (10 Body + 8 Armor), averaging 6 hits. So in case of an average resistance from a Force 6 Earth spirit, I scored 5 boxes of physical wounds, from a physical damage track of 13 boxes. Two more shots like that and the spirit is disrupted. (Hopefully, the spirit isn’t Force 6, or we are in very deep shit.)

Note: I will post IC after you sorted out the question about which spirit Mlinzi shot her lightning bolt at, and which spirit is actually still there. But I probably will take aim and shoot at the clearer target.
@Reminder: the book doesn’t say that I have any negative dice pool modifiers when I shoot into a melee but I remember you writing something about the shot being harder if I target the spirit attacking Frenchy. What is the modifier?