[SnowDog]

Runners tend to use expensive smartguns and tricked out vehicles. I happened to wonder about this in a past and now that I am about to start my own SR game this is once again relevant.

Do your runners just get rid of weapons they used in a previous run? What about that getaway car controlled by a rigger? I know I wouldn't want to be caught just because I have a gun that was used to off someone. So, what alternative methods are available for runners? Do they switch barrels and pins? Or are there even more setting specific ways to keep the gun and all the expensive accessories for the next run?

I don't know what would work for the car except changing the plates and even that is a bit uncertain.

[RHat]

Well, for one thing". Don't use you legal piece on the job.  Really, if you get caught with your working piece, you're probably already screwed.  As for vehicles, there's typically a number of things in the appropriate book for that, like a morphing plate and spoof chip.

Just because you have the ballistic profile of a weapon doesn't mean you can find its owner (especially if it's not registered properly), and you're gonna have a very hard time finding the owner of a vehicle if the plates and other registration details you have are faked.  This goes tenfold for SINless characters, who aren't in the system at all.

[SnowDog]

So people tend to just hide their runner gear and use it run after run sort of hoping that they are not get gaught having that "dirty" gun on them. Now SIN qualities really can get negative :-)

About the vehicles. I suppose you are referring to a rigger book. I have just bought SR5 book and I don't have a rigger book for any edition. Let's see what gear there are in the equipment section.

Thanks!

[martinchaen]

If your runners are using a gun tied to their SIN to commit crimes, they are criminally stupid and deserve to get caught...

As far as tracing guns; you could always replace the barrel of a gun without needing to replace the whole weapon. Unfortunately, there are no rules for this (weapon cost of X%?), so for all intents and purposes most runners likely carry the same weapons run after run.

Of course, if you keep the sniper rifle you used to assassinate that high-level Ares executive, maybe you deserve the heat.

[SnowDog]

True. I really hope that they are not that stupid, but you never know...

[DigitalZombie]

But no runner would accept a wetjob, if he knew it meant he had to get rid of his tricked out desert strike rifle afterwards, if the job only pays 30k. As that would only cover the rifle, but not the next run he cant go on, as he is currently "between" rifles. ( not to mention if he wanted an identical rifle fast he could be spending around 70-80k on making sure he got it)
The tricky part is, whats the GM to do then? he could increase the monetary rewards of jobs with high expenses. But that wouldnt be equal for all members in the group. Suddenly the decker, adept, mage gets alot more money than the rigger, sniper etc because all jobs pay X% more (which the latter would use on keeping the status quo).
The johnson could also give the team expendable equipment, I guess.

[SnowDog]

That's true. On the other hand such a high profile job should pay enough to allow replacement weapons etc. I would probably propose pooling some of the pay for replacement gear for anyone in need, for example this sniper. Why would anyone do it? Otherwise nobody would get any money if using sniper was the only viable plan that the team could think of.

[Mirikon]

Also, replacing the barrel of a gun costs a lot less than replacing the whole gun. Alternatively, sometimes you want to have a throwaway piece for those times when you need to kill a guy and get out of dodge. This is less true with sniper rifles than other guns, naturally, but the point remains.

[Reaver]

Also keep in mind that in the 2070s a lot of ammo is "caseless" so there is not shell casing to pick up. (the propellant and the bullet are one solid block.. the firing pin hits, the propellant causing it to explode, and propel the bullet... ) And depending on the ammo used, there may not be much  left to get the rifling lines off of. Ex and Ex-Ex ammo would be almost completely destroyed in the explosion, while APDS wouldn't have any lines on the sabot core... as the out shell of the round is stripped away on impact and the sabot is what hits the body....


Changing the barrel is not an easy thing to do.. and would require a B/R skill and tools to do the job right. (not sure if these are in the Corebook or not. might have to wait till the extended rules for these items)


In short, the game is supposed to be fun... if you take the CSI approach to things at every turn, the game comes down to who go the better mark in science class and less about fun.

[Mirikon]

Well, with many guns when you break it down to clean it during maintenance, taking the barrel out is part of the process. Swapping in a new barrel during this step wouldn't be difficult. I'd say it would require an Armorer (2-3, 1 minute) extended test in 4th, so not sure what that would translate to in 5th.

[Reaver]

Well, with many guns when you break it down to clean it during maintenance, taking the barrel out is part of the process. Swapping in a new barrel during this step wouldn't be difficult. I'd say it would require an Armorer (2-3, 1 minute) extended test in 4th, so not sure what that would translate to in 5th.

that all depends on thr fire arm. Revolvers can and can not detach the barrel, depending on the manufacturer.  Hunting/sport rifles are the same as well....

which leads you into more issues..... which weapons in SR can you easily change out the barrels and which ones require tools?


In the end, its up to the GM. which means you are adding work to yourself worrying about this, and not about other things that may be worth more of you time.

[Reaver]

In the end, I guess it depends on the type of game that you are running..

the word  "Shadowrunner" to me, implies a level of professionalism in the character, that you wouldn't see in other criminal elements. That level of professionalism is not something the average players are expected to know and account for....

I mean really, how DO you hide your matrix trial?? Considering the matrix is a made up thing, no one knows , but the characters do (or, at least the characters with matrix skills).

there are a few things I ASSUME the characters are doing.... and the first one is, being a professional. meaning dissolving any links between them and a crime as they can. This means scrubbing the matrix, using protective wear to limit DNA, changing ballistic patterns, Paining the car, Changing VINs, and all the other things that people in their line of work know to do that we don't (as up standing citizens, right. Right?!?)

Are there costs involved in this? Sure. Do I charge the players this cost? Nope. It's just easier when we (the players/GM) assume its rolled into the payout for the run. Meaning, if I (the GM) say that the Run paid out $10,000 per runner. In reality, the run actually paid $12,000... but $2000 was assumed to be expenses to cover the "little things" I listed above.

It keeps things simple, easy and the game moving forward while allowing me some freedom to move behind the scenes to advance a story plot if and well and as needed. (for those rare times that they do leave some DNA, physical, astral, matrix evidence behind..... but I have never used this in a "hah! you're screwed" situation)


Of course, your game may not have "shadowrunner"s by my definition.... maybe you got an all military crew, or a street punk game....

Then the questions become more difficult to answer.....

[SnowDog]

I don't intend to run CSI style game but knowing my players I have to be prepared with some details. Since I am relatively new to SR, but I consider myself pretty seasoned with CP2020. So I asked in case there are some usual ways that are setting specific that I am unaware of.

I know that in RL changing a barrell can be a very trivial requiring no roll as removing the barrell is part of cleaning the gun. In other cases it is far from trivial like with assault rifles, at least in my experience.

Let's see how my players aproach the problem in game.

Thanks for the input!

[RHat]

As a suggestion, if you're players simply DON'T approach the problem in-game, handwave it.

[SnowDog]

That's one way to handle it. On the other hand being sloppy in that department has been quite dangerous in our past games.

I will probably let it slide but should they get caught with guns used in previous jobs, there will be even more severe conseguences.