[Vidnaut]

Say…. Would it be possible to make something which fires two slugs with a monofilamen wire suspended between them? Maybe in the range of a sniper rifle?

….

"I want to call a shot on his neck."

i think we can all agree that decapitation is a instakill.

There's the monowire bolas and underbarrel bola launchers listed in Arsenal.  Have to have an exotic ranged weapon skill for them to make it useful though.

[MadBear]

Mass x Velocity gives Force, not Energy. Energy (Potential) is Mass x Height, Energy (Kinetic) is 0.5 x Mass x Velocity ^ 2.

I stand corrected, thank you. My point remains valid, though. Enough velocity, and even a low mass object will strike with enough force to do damage.

[Anarkitty]

First, Mass x Velocity is Momentum, not Force.  Mass x Acceleration is Force.

The issue is that the kinetic energy is not just expended by striking a target and cutting into it, it is also expended countering air friction (which gets higher the faster something goes) and twisting and turning in the air.  Also, with a low mass comes very low inertia, which means it will slow down very quickly.  The low mass also means when it hits it will decelerate almost instantly before it can cut very deep.

A monofilament whip or grenade uses a super-thin carbon nanotube wire which has a Density of 1.33-1.40 g/cm³; and a Diameter of 1.2nm, for an approximate Volume of 0.00000113cm³ per meter length.  That gives a 3m long strand a total Mass of 0.0000034g (rounded up).
Assuming it is travelling at roughly the speed of sound, 340m/s, and ignoring air friction, that gives each strand (0.5*0.0000034g*(340m/s)²=) 0.197Joules of kinetic energy.  At twice the speed of sound, it is still only 0.79J.

That isn't enough for even monowire to cut through or even into much of anything.  Even hitting bare flesh it would be unlikely to do anything but superficial scratches.  The biggest danger would be getting tagged with the end of one of the threads as it whizzed past you or getting hit in the eye, but even a cheap plastic lens would protect you from that.

And then you take into account deceleration due to wind resistance and the difficulty of accelerating something that light to a reasonable speed in the first place without an explosion that does more damage than the wires and you have a weapon that simply shouldn't work, not due to technological limitations but due to elementary physics.  I wouldn't allow it in my game, because it is simply too unrealistic and breaks suspension of disbelief.

[CanRay]

And now I'm remembering why I failed physics despite knowing the basics of it before I even entered the class.   

[PeterSmith]

First, Mass x Velocity is Momentum, not Force.  Mass x Acceleration is Force.

*sigh*

'scuse me, I have to catch the Failboat tonight.

[MadBear]

First, Mass x Velocity is Momentum, not Force.  Mass x Acceleration is Force.

The issue is that the kinetic energy is not just expended by striking a target and cutting into it, it is also expended countering air friction (which gets higher the faster something goes) and twisting and turning in the air.  Also, with a low mass comes very low inertia, which means it will slow down very quickly.  The low mass also means when it hits it will decelerate almost instantly before it can cut very deep.

A monofilament whip or grenade uses a super-thin carbon nanotube wire which has a Density of 1.33-1.40 g/cm³; and a Diameter of 1.2nm, for an approximate Volume of 0.00000113cm³ per meter length.  That gives a 3m long strand a total Mass of 0.0000034g (rounded up).
Assuming it is travelling at roughly the speed of sound, 340m/s, and ignoring air friction, that gives each strand (0.5*0.0000034g*(340m/s)²=) 0.197Joules of kinetic energy.  At twice the speed of sound, it is still only 0.79J.

That isn't enough for even monowire to cut through or even into much of anything.  Even hitting bare flesh it would be unlikely to do anything but superficial scratches.  The biggest danger would be getting tagged with the end of one of the threads as it whizzed past you or getting hit in the eye, but even a cheap plastic lens would protect you from that.

And then you take into account deceleration due to wind resistance and the difficulty of accelerating something that light to a reasonable speed in the first place without an explosion that does more damage than the wires and you have a weapon that simply shouldn't work, not due to technological limitations but due to elementary physics.  I wouldn't allow it in my game, because it is simply too unrealistic and breaks suspension of disbelief.

Way to spoil the fun!  Ok, so I was way off...

[PeterSmith]

Way to spoil the fun!  Ok, so I was way off...

If it'll make you feel any better, Rule of Cool trumps physics.

[Anarkitty]

Way to spoil the fun!  Ok, so I was way off...

I had fun working all that out.  It took a lot of research on physical properties of the materials and such, and I wasn't 100% certain who was right when I started.

If it'll make you feel any better, Rule of Cool trumps physics.

I agree with you up to a point, but Shadowrun is a believable world despite the dragons and magic because it is internally consistent.  Even by the standards of the SR universe a grenade that uses wire instead of heavy steel fragments and doesn't even explode enough to do damage itself seems like a silly idea.  It violates the internal game-logic of how monowire works (and how explosions work) in every other circumstance.  As cool as the idea is, I lump it in with rocket launchers firing chainsaws and jet packs in the category of "too silly to exist" when it comes to SR.

Now, in Warhammer 40K the Eldar have weapons that use this exact principle that are devastatingly effective, but that falls in a totally different place on the realism spectrum from SR.

[Reaver]

Wait... you telling green skinned orcs that can turn a garbage can lid, a rusty spring, and a spanner into a tank isn't believable?!?

[CanRay]

Wait... you telling green skinned orcs that can turn a garbage can lid, a rusty spring, and a spanner into a tank isn't believable?!?

I call it "Tuesday".

[Linkdeath]

Wait... you telling green skinned orcs that can turn a garbage can lid, a rusty spring, and a spanner into a tank isn't believable?!?

I call it "Tuesday".

And I call that day, "Larry."

[Anarkitty]

Wait... you telling green skinned orcs that can turn a garbage can lid, a rusty spring, and a spanner into a tank isn't believable?!?

It's entirely believable...within the context of the world.  On the other hand, I would question a SR orc that painted himself green and started shouting "Waaaaagh!" if they expected to be able to cobble together a working gun and motorcycle out of scrap, because the universe works entirely differently.
That is an interesting character concept though, an orc that was way too into 40K before they became a shadowrunner and tries to copy that style in cosmetic modifications to their gear.

[Reaver]

Please don't give my players any more ideas...


I am already dealing with "George Foreman XXVI" Ork physical adept boxer. ...

[Mithlas]

My point remains valid, though. Enough velocity, and even a low mass object will strike with enough force to do damage.

Depending on the structure of that object and how it's deployed. I think everybody's been assuming it's just a coiled few strands of monowire like the old 'ball of chains' idea that was deployed now and again in the early days of gunpowder. I think we all know that would more than likely result in an expensive weapon that doesn't work (well).

Stargate had an idea that I think could be what this monowire grenade is supposed to function like, it would just need strong anchors on the ends of the monowire and propulsion to shoot them out when the grenade reached its desired central tether point:

[Reaver]

Well, hurricane winds have been known to drive low mass objects into trees and concrete... both of which are much denser then flesh... so I guess the grenade could work, depending on the velocity of the explosive used, given the low fricton level of the monowire....

But by anarkitty's math, it does seem unlikely.