[prismite]

Hi folks, want to get some feedback about things.

I am currently hosting a game of 4th Ed SR4a and my players have been picked up as DA's (Deniable Assets) by Mitsuhama. Mostly MCT has them do odds and ends, like long distance jobs, or jobs relating to external security.

The group is composed of 2 mages (1 is combat based, the other is an illusionist), a human skill-monkey, a troll gun-adept and an Oni with a penchant for large weapons. The face of the group is the illusionist and has been VERY effective at her job. Between these 5 people there are 4 High-Velocity weapons, 3 High-Powered weapons a modified Krime Cannon and 4 suits of SWAT-style armor.

Recently the mages have begun complaining that the game is getting more and more unfair to them because the enemies are carrying AR's with underbarrel GL's or Snipers with Desert Strikes. I've tried to integrate critters and casters, but with 2 spellcasters on the team almost everything is counterspelled immediately and the big lugs make short work of everything else.

I dont like using Dragons or such very often because I think that cheapens their value. I dont want to put the party up against something that is sure to kill them for the sake of killing them, either.

So I'm looking for interesting ideas to challenge the party with.

[martinchaen]

Send them to Manhattan... *snickers*

[Mirikon]

prismite, I got one word that will solve all your problems: Asamando.

[Ryo]

bug spirits. A hive of them.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

If they like the Call of Duty feel, you could have MCT send them to Desert Wars '72 to represent the Corp.

[Walks Through Walls]

A bodyguarding job where they are very public and can't use the big weapons could make them think of other ways then brute force to accomplish the job.

Also for the spell casters a couple or more spirits can tie them up while the mudanes have to deal with the mudane problems.

[Caradoc]

bug spirits. A hive of them.

Chicago CZ where the Background Count messes with the mages.

[Michael Chandra]

That simply gets the mages to complain things are unfair to them. You want something only mages can handle properly.

[Mirikon]

Blood mages. Mages using Mob Mind. Spirits taking advantage of the surroundings to prevent the party from bringing their heavy weapons to bear. Illusions. Knight Errant wanting to see your license for the assault cannon.

[jamesfirecat]

Are the mages worried about how easily they might die or are they worried that they are not inflicting enough damage when they cast spells?

[prismite]

Hmm. Some really good options here!

The mages are concerned that enemies will be carrying progressively bigger guns that make correspondingly larger and larger holes in spellcasters, lol.

I *LOVE* the WarGames idea ... that would be the perfect outlet for their violent tendencies and explain why there are so many like-formatted npc's!

As for the mages, I integrated a bug-spirit this last session that bit them (so to speak) in a particular nasty fashion so they are a bit more attentive at this point. Vengeful bugs might be looking for them at this point ...

[Angrypixels]

The mages are concerned that enemies will be carrying progressively bigger guns that make correspondingly larger and larger holes in spellcasters, lol.

I'm a fan of localized background count issues to keep spell monkeys from tipping everything sideways. This gives me a little break from the normal over the top pink mohawk action. With a lower key mission theres correspondingly less panthers running around....usually...maybe.

[jamesfirecat]

Hmm. Some really good options here!

The mages are concerned that enemies will be carrying progressively bigger guns that make correspondingly larger and larger holes in spellcasters, lol.

I *LOVE* the WarGames idea ... that would be the perfect outlet for their violent tendencies and explain why there are so many like-formatted npc's!

As for the mages, I integrated a bug-spirit this last session that bit them (so to speak) in a particular nasty fashion so they are a bit more attentive at this point. Vengeful bugs might be looking for them at this point ...

Are the mages trying to play pure flesh or do they have some crome in them?

Magic is powerful enough in fourth edition that they can afford to get some cyber implants (probably cheap ones since they won't have to worry that much about the stats on the limbs in question) with armor built into them to make them more squishy.

A friend of mine once played a devilishly effective Fomori Burnout Mage who had two cyber legs and was able to withstand shocking amounts of punishment (20+ soak dice) while still throwing spells hard enough to level whatever he was aiming at.

Also what kind of attack spells are your mages using and are they happy with the results?  If you use the right powerful spells you can afford to loose some essence/magic to make yourself harder to kill.

[sidslick]

An alternative to Desert Wars maybe the Rad Wars that are scheduled to run in the irradiated SOX region of Europe.  The original SOX supplement was written in French/German, but I have a translated version if you want it - PM me with an email address and I'll whizz it over. 

This brings in the issues of limited equipment/ammo, radiation, mad locals and Feuerschwinge (radioactive dragon).  Bugs and atomagic are also options.  I've run this along the lines of Fallout 3.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

IMO, to give any effective advice, I think we need to know exactly what the players are complaining about.  The scaling up of weapons against them?  They're company men, they have "4 High-Velocity weapons, 3 High-Powered weapons a modified Krime Cannon and 4 suits of SWAT-style armor" - in other words, if they don't kill it in one pass, it's probably some sort of tank.  The fact that they ARE taking out everything in one pass?  The fact that because they're doing that level of damage, in order to balance the playing field, you need to haul out your big guns??

Overall, the best advice I can give you is to remind them that what they bring to the game is what you have to match.  They're stomping around the 'plex in medium armor and toting weapons that'd wipe out any small- to medium-sized gang.  If they don't want the opposition to start targetting them with headshots from 1200m out, they need to get more subtle.  If they want to romp around the way they are, they're going to face opposition with heavy weapons which, if they get through, are going to smear them across the wall.  If they don't want to face that sort of opposition, they should seek out more subtle missions.  IC, the PCs talk to their handler; OOC, the players talk to you.

Ideas as a GM, to get away from the 'hi there, headshot with an assault cannon!' issue - pretty simple, really.  More mages.  Gino and Nunzio might be able to smack away two or three spells at a time, but what about five or seven?  What if the opposition is equal to their skill rating, is actively attacking their magical defenses?  If you've got your spell defense up, your ability to cast goes down, which means a solid opposition team with two or three spellcasters and a good bunch of tactical soldiers can force the PCs to choose - either keep spell defense up and not be able to defend against the incoming bulletstorm, or start working against the bullets and have to scramble to protect against spells.  If one's doing the spell defense and the other is doing physical defense, again, have an opposition mage magically attack their magical defenses against the physical attacks - and another one sic a spirit on them.

And if you really want to scare the pants off them, I have two words for you: Ritual Sorcery.  "Hi there, headshot with an assault cannon" becomes something they KNOW is happening, but they have a limited time to find the 'shooters' ... who could be anywhere on the planet.