[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Chicago flatlined...

Here's the thing about major -- repeatable -- disasters in the modern age: the city may take a hit, but it never, ever completely vanishes.  Look at any place that's had an earthquake in the last 60 years.  Hell, look at New Orleans today.  Oh sure, it's down by a third, but it's slowly rebounding.  Chicago?  With the way the rivers and the freeway system has been built in the Midwest, you can't get anywhere in the northern area without going through Chicago.  Which means that it's going to be cheaper to store stuff there.  To trans-ship stuff there.  Then to assemble stuff there, and then to manufacture stuff there.  Cities are rebuilt, because there are advantages to having a city there.

Chicago today -- just the city -- has 2.7 million.  Chicago's area has an estimated 9.8 million, which includes everywhere from Gary, IN to Kenosha, WI.  Bug City was an ongoing horrible disaster, sure, but everyone tends to think that three million people could afford to pick up and move.  Simply put, they can't.  Blue collar workers are going to have to stay put, because they can't get jobs elsewhere and they can't afford to even go, 'cause nobody's gonna buy their house for anywhere near what it's worth.  They'll ship in white-collar workers if they have to in order to manage the aforementioned blue-collars ...

Metro Chicago 2073 may be down from 9.8 million.  Slash it by a third.  But there are still going to be literally millions of people still in the area.  Remember also that the population of the Seattle Metroplex is something over 3 million.  Seattle's current metro area population is 3,344,813  ...

Easiest way to adjudicate SR4 populations is to take the current ones.  Population growth has been slashed by population disasters, pretty much balancing themselves out ...

[kirk]

Ah, yes, New Orleans. Of all the cities in SR, it is the one that bothers me the most.

It does so because I know too much about the Mississippi / Red river / Atchafalaya Basin situation.

[Crimsondude]

Feral Cities veers off into some strange territory (and forgot things like the massive Truman Tower), but it does discuss how the Chicagoland area is significantly large and important. As it should be since Chicago is also near the geographic heart of the UCAS.

so does that mean the next Seattle book will have the stats for what the government and corps show/claim followed by several dissenting opinions? say the numbers as provided by the Salish/shidhe border patrol, the number from some hidden data node that has sinless included, and maybe random guesses based on gods care what for throwing wrenches in the works?

There are comments disputing the figures in Seattle 2072.

Actually, that book suggests the census counts residents, including the SINless. That's bananas. This is the dark future. SINless are barely regarded as human.

Ah, yes, New Orleans. Of all the cities in SR, it is the one that bothers me the most.


It does so because I know too much about the Mississippi / Red river / Atchafalaya Basin situation.

MAGIC!

[Mirikon]

Even if they don't value the SINless much, you still have to try and get a rough estimate of their numbers, since they will still use city services such as power, water, hospitals, prison beds, etc.

[Bull]

That's just it.  They don't.  At least not legally and officially.

Without a SIN, you cannot do anything in SHadowrun.  You can't even walk into Stuffer Shack and buy a candy bar.  A SIN defines you.

Bull

[CanRay]

They can't even get on the bus to the Stuffer Shack any longer.

Before, you had the ability to do it with a certified credstick, no one cared as long as you weren't causing a problem, you pays your money, you takes your ride.

The Wireless Matrix has made life for the SINless a hell of a lot harder!

And the only way to get a legit SIN, so far, that's been told is the rare SIN Amnesty for a limited number of people (And you're damned sure that PoliClubs will make sure the "Proper" people get those SINs) and Military Service.

[Bull]

I will note that Certified Credsticks still exist.  And Seattle 2072 specifically points out that actual physical cash and corpscrip is more common there than in most other cities (Common being a relative term of course).  In places where there is little to no wireless, such as the Barrens or in the Majority of the Ork Underground, paper money and credstick is all you can use.

One of SR4's weakest points has always been the overall lack of background fiction to help flesh out the world.  Part of it was the lack of novels, and part was the need to cram in so many rules and so much gear from almost 20 years (at the time) of material that there frequently wasn't the space to handle this stuff.  Hopefully we can fix this as time goes on.

Bull

[CanRay]

Like, I don't know, novels?  *Bounces Excitedly*

But, yeah, the "Need to broadcast a SIN in certain areas" is the point I was making.  And it's been stated in a few sourcebooks (Including Seattle 2072) that Mass Transit is one of those areas.  (They talk about recruitment offices having to move to the outskirts of the Barrens as SINless couldn't get Downtown.).

[Sichr]

I would like to see some kind of 6th world magic items, aka Artifacts Catalogue, listed with their history and powers, the same way important NPCs are in Street Legends. There must be thousands of it, and so far Ive heard about...Sextant, Map, IDN next two yet..., and Locust... Since rulec for creating such things are vague enought and there are only a few examples, IMO this should really help to get some Magic into day to day bussines.

[Frankie the Fomori]

One thing that could interest a large fan base would be City or region who's who in the shadows: it would be a break away from the street legends series, providing a couple johnsons, fixers, random assortment of general contacts (street doc, beat cops, etc) and some local runners and maybe a shadow group ( like the wrecking crew worked out of Seattle before they became bug food).

SR could use the Bio section to add some local fluff that would interest GM's and the players would have a better understanding if what they get from buying contacts at PC creation.

[FastJack]

One thing that could interest a large fan base would be City or region who's who in the shadows: it would be a break away from the street legends series, providing a couple johnsons, fixers, random assortment of general contacts (street doc, beat cops, etc) and some local runners and maybe a shadow group ( like the wrecking crew worked out of Seattle before they became bug food).

SR could use the Bio section to add some local fluff that would interest GM's and the players would have a better understanding if what they get from buying contacts at PC creation.

That has the feel of a great PDF series of books. 10-20 pages, with characters and a couple Shadowrun locations.

[Crimsondude]

I can't see that having much more appeal than a normal setting book, which don't sell well outside of Seattle.

However, as an e-book I could see that working.

[Mirikon]

More ebooks about some of the different cities would be awesome. I really liked the Rotten Apple one about Manhattan. Other cities I'd love to have an actual writeup about include Boise (divided city like Denver), Atlanta (capitol of the CAS), Metropole, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Geneva, etc. Other than London, I don't think anywhere in Europe has gotten more than a passing mention in 4e. Closest would be Geneva, which has a little extra info about it in Corporate Intrigue, in addition to the blurb in Feral Cities.

[Fergurg]

Am I the only person that liked the setting books (Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves, Feral Cities) and wants to see another one?

[Mirikon]

Oh, I loved them, for the 1-2 cities featured in each one. The blurbs on the other cities in the books weren't that useful, however. The Rotten Apple PDF on Manhattan was only 32 pages, and PDF only, but it had a lot of detail, including things like local gangs, etc. I'd love to see more of that.